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Suspension spec thread

194K views 1K replies 83 participants last post by  ceese 
#1 · (Edited)
In an effort to find more info about this car and make it easier to decide and select what will work best for your car, this will be the first thread I'm making dedicated to all the specs, data and details for suspension related products. I will update this OP as more info is found and most importantly, I would like to at least get the info down for the stock OEM components including stuff like:

Spring rates
Sway bar thickness and rates
Any other suspension related data
Dyno graphs showing damper and spring characteristics at different settings

Here is an interesting point that I will leave here:
**
VWR does not recommend sport springs on 4-Motion vehicles such as the Golf R and R32 as lowering the ride height from the factory does not offer a significant improvement and can even harm the ride and handling balance of these vehicles. For these vehicles the VWR Streetsport and Streetsport+ Coilover Systems are highly recommended.
Source
...A statement that many people who care about the handling of their cars have pointed out and agreed on before so it is interesting to now hear the same thing directly from VWR.

Update: A good read by @MaysEffect called Tuning woes & fundamental tuning guide. Read here.

Stock OEM
Spring Type/Rates: 180F/250R according to measurements by yellow bunny
Or 275F/225R based on rough estimates courtesy of ryeboy
Additional: Dampers Made by Sachs
Sway Bars:
Front 22mm Solid, Rear 21.7mm, 3mm wall thickness
Source

Note: You can replace OEM control arms and spindles (front only) with TT or Passat parts, which are aluminum and will save you unsprung weight. Passat parts are direct replacement with no change besides the weight reduction, TT parts add camber adjustability but they also widen your track by about 10mm per side (? please confirm about extra track width):More info here
SuperPro Control Arms are also available. See info below and here
R32 OEM LCA's are 10.25 lbs/ea and Passat are 6.4 lbs/ea
R32 Spindles are 9.8 lbs/ea and Passat are 6.4 lbs/ea
(weights according to ryeboy's calculations linked to above)

AST 4100
Spring Type/Rates:
2 Front 60mm Coilover Springs, 7" Long
2 Rear Swift 60mm Coilover Springs, 9" Long
The GTS package is 350 lbs/in front, 250 lbs/in rear
We can provide any available spring rates upon request...

for the R32 I'd suggest ordering with stiffer rates. They go for $2,099.00

Additional: Monotube design, http://www.vorshlag.com/product_info.php?cPath=120_203&products_id=260


AST (other series)
Spring Type/Rates: N/A
Additional: Monotube design

Bilstein PSS10
Spring Type/Rates:
Front: E4-FD1-Y704A00 = progressive; initial rate 32.8N/mm (approx 190lbs/in), secondary rate 43.4N/mm (approx 250lbs/in)
Rear: E4-FD1-Y754A00 = progressive; initial rate 33.0N/mm (approx 190lbs/in), secondary rate 50.1N/mm (approx 285lbs/in)
Additional:
Adjustable compression & rebound dampening
Note about changing spring rates: Simply replacing the progressive rate springs with linear rates will significantly alter the ride characteristics, firmer without over powering the dampers (perhaps 300lbs/in front and 350lbs/in rear). 350#/in front springs (linear) and 400lbs/in rear (linear) would be the maximum I would recommend.
*I originally forgot to add this but thanks to JRutter for the info on the Bilsteins. I hope you don't mind me sharing this info with everyone.:thumbup:
Dyno Graph

B&G
Spring Type/Rates:
Linear Springs...rates?
Additional:
18-way adjustable dampening (rebound and compression)
Anodized aluminum alloy and powder coated steel
They also come with a limited lifetime warranty.
Height adjustable
Front 1.25-3.5" (32 - 89mm)
Rear 1.25-3.5" (32 - 89mm)

Effect Adjustable Control Arms
Only available in the Japanese market as of the posting.
More info?

Epic Euro Tuning Ultra Adjustable Control Arms
Camber Adjustment made by sliding moving ball joint in or out.
Additional camber adjustment can be made without having to touch the ball joint via the linkage adjuster.
Caster can be adjusted by turning the single long tube.
Adjustments are made much more precise by being able to turn the adjusters as little or as much as you'd like.
Weighs 4.5lbs vs. 7lbs stock arm.
Fully tig welded.
Discussion starts here.

Ground Control
Camber Plates
Additional: Allow camber and caster adjustment, as well as access to adjustable struts. There is No change in ride height, and NO LOSS OF SUSPENSION TRAVEL. An oversize American central bearing to reduce flex, yet using a waterproof German steering bearing which is rebuildable (unlike the stock parts) for smooth steering. .Designed for track use, and utilizing quality Aurora spherical bearings, the Ground Control camber/caster plates are machined only for use with coil-over springs. More info here: http://performanceshock.com/--c-41_139/ccpmkv

HPA SHS
Spring Type/Rates:
Front: Linear/NA
Rear: Progressive/NA
Additional:
Height adjustable
Front: 25-55mm
Rear: 35-60mm

ISC N1
Spring Type/Rates:
Front: Sport/Street: 560 lbs, Track: 672 lbs
Rear: Sport/Street: 336 lbs, Track: 448 lbs
Additional:
Height, Pre-load and Dampening adjustable
Sport Springs or Track Springs (dampening builds are different from each other)

JIC ZMS coilovers (one of the newer options)
Stainless steel Front 43mm piston rod w/Inverted Monotube + Caster/Camber plates (spherical bearing top mount/roller bearing spring perch) - rebound/compression adjustment (top)
Aluminum Rear 48mm Upside-down Monotube rear spherical bearing lower mount - rebound/compression adjustment (bottom)
2.5inch i.d Linear front (8kg x 6.5") and rear (6kg x 8") + *low rate tender springs front- optional spring rates available
JDM style shock body height adjustments.
Adjustable spring perch with integrated endlink mount. Adjustable endlinks with metal/metal ball joints
Contact @MaysEffect for more details

Koni 2100 FSD 4020 kit
Spring Type/Rates: Dampers only. Made to use with stock springs/height, can also be revalved to match any spring rate like any other dampers, but...
Additional: Dual Flow Valve (similar to Ohlin design). Should be able to use with slightly different from stock height and spring rates. More info.

KSport Kontrol Pro Damper System
Spring Type/Rates: Seem to be Linear
Front: 504 lbs (optional 672, 896)
Rear: 252 lbs (optional 336, 448, 1008)
Additional: Height/Compression/Rebound adjustable, Monotube construction, Camber Plates built in front mounts.

KW V1
Spring Type/Rates: Progressive/NA
Additional:
Height adjustable
Front: 0.8"-1.8"
Rear: 0.4"-1.4"
ST Coilovers have the same specs, just different finish (inox-line on KW for "100% rust free" or just Galvanized for ST)

KW V2
Spring Type/Rates: Progressive/NA
Additional:
Height adjustable
Front: 0.8"-1.8"
Rear: 0.4"-1.4"
Adjustable rebound dampening

KW V3
Spring Type/Rates: Progressive/NA
Additional:
Height adjustable
Front: 0.8"-1.8"
Rear: 0.4"-1.4"
Adjustable compression & rebound dampening

KW Clubsport
Spring Type/Rates: Linear Springs / 514lb front / 400lb rear
Additional: Come with Front Camber Plates
Height adjustable
Front: 0.8"-1.8" TUV Approved Ride Height (can go a lot lower)
Rear: 0.4"-1.4" TUV Approved Ride Height (can go a lot lower)
2-Way adjustable

Moton
Spring Type/Rates: NA
Additional: These should be comparable to Ohlins and most likely custom setup.

Neuspeed Spring Kit
Spring Type/Rates: Progressive Springs / 300lb Front / 330lb Rear
Additional:
Lowers approx. 1.4 (F) & 1.4 (R) (I'm assuming inchs)

Neuspeed Rear Anti-Sway Bar - 25mm
Additional:
2 Hole adjustable (would love to know at least how much it increases stiffness at different settings)

Neuspeed Front Anti-Sway Bar - 25mm
Again, would like to know how much stiffer it is compared to stock

Ohlin VWS MI00 (OEM replacement dampers)
Spring Type/Rates: Made to use with stock springs, can also be revalved to match any spring rate like any other dampers, but...
Front: 450 lbs is recommended by Ohlin and other suspension specialists
Rear: 350 lbs is recommended by Ohlin and other suspension specialists
(See discussion relating to spring rates later in this thread, starting here)
Additional: Dual Flow Valve, Monotube design
Dyno Graph and links to more info/discussion HERE.

Ohlin VWSMI10 Coilovers
Spring Type/Rates: Linear
Front: 70 N/mm or ~400 lbs
Rear: 60 N/mm or ~350 lbs
Additional: Dual Flow Valve, Monotube design
These ARE NOT AWD tested yet but are made by Ohlin from what seems to be the same Dampers above (Ohlin VWS MI00) and I would imagine they will work fine (don't trust me;)).
Details Here.

Ohlin/PSI Coilover Kit
Spring Type/Rates: Linear/TBA (PSI usually works with their customers to determine the right spring rate for each individual's needs)
Additional: External Canister Dampers up Front, TTX Inline Dampers for Rear. Camber plate included for mounting strut and canisters.
Announcement and info starts Here.
This should be the ultimate suspension currently available off the shelf for our cars but I'll wait for more details...

Sachs Performance Coilover Kit
Spring Type/Rates: NA
Additional:
Housing diameter: 50 mm
Chass. lowered from: 30mm to: 50mm
More: http://www.sachsperformance.com/Sac...n::446.html?XTCsid=lv979reuthqrnvmfcjo90aqt77

SuperPro Performance Control Arms
Highlights:
7.5 lbs/ea (compared to 10.25 lbs/ea for OEM R32 LCAs)
Corrosion resistant Supaloy
Smart Bushing and Mount Design
Special low friction stainless steel insert
Bushing bonded direct to high-stress alloy bracket
Smart Bushing and Mount Design
Special low friction stainless steel insert
Bushing bonded direct to high-stress alloy bracket
Performance Grip Dynamics
Up to 1.5 Deg extra dynamic positive caster
Supertrac Anti-lift geometry for more traction

SuperPro Ball Joint Roll Control Roll Centre Kit
Highlights:
-Corrects roll center geometry compromised by lowering a vehicle (Designed for standard Golfs so with already slightly lower R32s, these are fine at stock height for R32s. Explanation here.)
-Adds adjustable camber
-Dramatically improves mid-corner stability
-Raises roll center
-Improved weight distribution and front end grip
-Reduces understeer through reduced front wheel compression
-Improves steering, precision & vehicle stability

EXPLANATION: Each suspension system front and rear has a roll center. The vehicles roll center greatly influences how the body of the vehicle will perform. Roll centers are set by engineers in the design process of a vehicle to give optimum handling with minimum body roll at the required ride height and center of gravity position. Lowering a vehicle does not necessarily improve handling. If a vehicle is lowered beyond its ideal roll center, this change increases the rate of change to the suspension causing faster and greater body roll. The vehicles stability and traction is adversely affected. When these ball joints are fitted to a lowered vehicle, the roll center position is improved, helping to reduce body roll and improve the vehicle’s handling and balance by maintain maximum tire road contact. More info here and here.

Tein Spring Kit SKV90-AUB00
Spring Type/Rates:
Progressive
Front: 207 lbs/in
Rear: 286 lbs/in
Additional:
Lowers 1" (some specs say 1.5"?)
http://www.tein.com/products/s_tech_price_list.html
Tein seems to have a coilover kit with 450lbs/in front & rear springs.

VW Racing Springs
Spring Type/Rates:
Linear
Front: 35 N/mm or ~200 lbs/in
Rear: 45 N/mm or ~257 lbs/in
Additional:
Front Lowering - 10-15mm or .4" - .6"
Rear Lowering - 8-13mm or .3" - .5"
**The comment above about VWR not recommending lowering springs for the R32 seems to have been negated due to this new spring design.


VW Racing
Spring Type/Rates: Progressive or Linear options available no rates currently available
Front: ?
Rear: ?
Additional: Fixed or adjustable damper options available. Camber plates available but they only work with VWR coilover components.
More info here: http://www.volkswagenracing.co.uk/vwcore/suspension/
Sway Bars:
Front: 26mm solid, Rear: 23mm solid (these seem to be for FWD applications at the moment but AWD supposed to be coming soon)


Air Suspension
For those interested, check this post
Some updates regarding Air Suspension starting here.


There are several other brands and products I have not listed so please add on and provide as much info as possible to make this thread as useful as it can be. We need threads like this for other stuff like exhaust too...

Here are some good suspension shops that can help with questions and customizations for many of the setups:
http://performanceshock.com/
http://www.vorshlag.com/
 
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#130 ·
We did:


  • front bumper, pretty low
  • rear quarter behind passenger to catch the front wheels turning
  • rear hatch, Will said the rear hatch was cool and captured the exhaust well.
  • in car, on the headrest camera mount I have

I dig the front bumper cam a lot.
 
#133 ·
We did:


  • front bumper, pretty low
  • rear quarter behind passenger to catch the front wheels turning
  • rear hatch, Will said the rear hatch was cool and captured the exhaust well.
  • in car, on the headrest camera mount I have

I dig the front bumper cam a lot.
motrrrpsycho:
That's a bumper cam (GoPro).

abeR:
I'm messing with my vids right now (I have zero "post" skills, so I'm learning on the fly). I tried:

  • front bumper, same position as Ryan - fun to watch, but not as tack sharp as I'd like. I think the AF caught a point on the pavement about six feet in front of car.
  • passenger door, low. Watch the suspension work.
  • rear quarter
  • inside, passenger rear window, just above front headrest. Not bad, shows some cockpit stuff. Be sure to set metering to "spot".
  • inside, straight down from sunroof in front of passenger headrest. Angled slightly left, this is consistently a great image. Also 'spot'.
  • Outside, front of sunroof centered. OK, a tad boring.


I'll get them posted up, probably late this coming weekend.
 
#131 ·
a little teaser @Buttonwillow, tracking with Willangford making the pass a month ago:
Sweet pic, Ryan! Passing an Elise? Niiiiice! They let you take passengers? That's cool. That was strictly prohibited at the few events I have been at so far, aside from instructors riding with n00bs. My kids are too young now, but I figure they would prolly like to come with me when they are big enough to not need car seats any more.

This was the outing right after getting your cams installed, yeah? You still going to do a cam review post?

BTW - what's thing sticking out of your right lower grill?
 
#132 ·
#137 ·
Oh, transponder heh - no worries. I started imagining maybe GoPro had an add on remote / tube shaped cam in a heat protective material specifically to stick through front grills or other small space / hot applications, but... never mind :)

back on the suspension topic - I'm still debating rather I want to try the GC coilover kit like Ryeboy or just try to do enough research to identify an alternative OE style replacement spring to get stiffer rates but stay as close to stock ride height as possible.

I was checking out the new VWR offerings through APR and noticed this blurb in their info on their sport springs:

VWR does not recommend sport springs on 4-Motion vehicles such as the Golf R and R32 as lowering the ride height from the factory does not offer a significant improvement and can even harm the ride and handling balance of these vehicles. For these vehicles the VWR Streetsport and Streetsport+ Coilover Systems are highly recommended.
And also it looks like they sell their basic coilover kits with progressive springs which they recommend for the street with linear springs as an upgrade / interchangeable option for the track:

VWR springs are delicately selected per each vehicle chassis' design and weight. VWR springs are power-coated blue with VWR Logos etched in and come standard as progressive springs. Progressive springs offer a comfortable daily driving experience on the street and offer excellent control over the bumps and sudden elevation changes seen on streets around the world.

For the track minded enthusiast, a full linear front and rear spring is available. Linear springs offer superior control on the track over progressive springs but do so at the cost of comfort on the street. These springs are designed to directly swap onto your StreetSport or StreetSport Plus suspension and are an excellent upgrade for anyone who frequents the track. Many VWR customers simply swap to the linear springs for a track day even and then back to the progressive springs when on the street.
 
#138 ·
VWR does not recommend sport springs on 4-Motion vehicles such as the Golf R and R32 as lowering the ride height from the factory does not offer a significant improvement and can even harm the ride and handling balance of these vehicles. For these vehicles the VWR Streetsport and Streetsport+ Coilover Systems are highly recommended.
LOL, awesome!:thumbup:
 
#139 ·
Oh - not trying to say "neener neener, I have the right idea and this proves it" or any such thing - not by any stretch - so hope it didn't come off that way! Obviously allot of people have done coilover kits or lowering springs and been very happy with them. I just seem to have a slightly different take or different goal in mind - more of a performance street orientation than track (I'm weird) and was surprised to find this. Seems to be a different take on suspension mods than what you typically hear. Different strokes, right? Just sharing as an alternative perspective in case others have similar thoughts.
 
#140 ·
Haha nope...just interesting to hear that the people who have the most R&D on this car and platform say that about suspension setups for it. I still think the Ohlins are the way to go no matter what you are after, unless it is just going as low as possible.
 
#143 ·
I'm glad I decided to wait on my suspension install as APR has confirmed my suspicions that lowering the R will likely make the handling worse. I'm ok with sacrificing a small amount of performance for looks as a few MM lower won't be too bad, but I will wait on the H2sport spindles (if they ever get released!) until I throw on my suspension. Hopefully they have some improvement for the MKV R platform.

I was starring at my suspension the other day and decided against doing anything for now. Looking at the stock LCA, its pretty obvious why it won't make a big difference: The LCA is already pretty parallel to the ground on the stock suspension.

BTW, does anyone know if the MKV GTIs share the same spindle design? It is my understanding that the MKIV R32, along with the MK1 Audi TT, have an upgraded spindle design compared to the regular golf and GTI variants. The R32 had a steel version while the Audi TT was aluminum. However, speaking to one of my friends he seems to think that the MKVs had the same spindle design across all variations.

I don't have access to a MKV golf or GTI to poke my head under there. Anyone know for sure?
 
#147 ·
Most well versed suspension gurus will tell you the same thing. I learned the parallel LCA rule back when I owned my previous car. I have been pretty much riding on the hope that H2Sport will release their sport spindles for the MKV platform. Otherwise, I'll just install my coilovers, lower the car slightly for aesthetics and call it a day :)
 
#148 ·
Yeah, it's probably best to just do that...cars that were designed for all out performance instead of being good all around DD's have completely different suspension geometry for a reason and unless you are willing to go to the lengths it would take to customize your car in a similar way, it probably isn't worth it.



Keeping it VAG;)
 
#150 · (Edited)
Greetings all,

By way of introduction, I'm new here. I just took delivery of 1784 last Tuesday and I've been enjoying it (for all of 250+ miles at this point).

I'm an automotive journalist and I've tested and tracked both MkIV & MkV R32s. The MkIV was one of the most impressive "arrive and drive" street cars that I've ever just pulled off of a public road and thoroughly enjoyed on a racetrack. I have a pretty hardcore track car in a prepped Lotus Elise and I race on a LeMons / Chump team that campaigns two VR6 VWs: a '94 Jetta & a '95 GTI, so I don't need the R32 to be anything more than a reasonably engaging daily driver (that I would occasionally let a friend track for novice / beginner use. I.E. they won't be pushing the car very hard).

I plan to use my R32 for 75% street (mostly highway, shuttling to / from airport), 15% dry track and 10% ice autocross / ice track. I do live in Colorado though and will need a reasonable ride height for winter use.

So, I originally thought the car had stock springs and shocks (more on that in a bit) and I figured I'd look into Euro springs, which, in the VW / Audi world had typically been slightly lower (~20mm the last time I utilized a set on an Audi) and slightly stiffer and likely eminently livable on a daily basis for my purposes. It ends up though that when you compare the Euro and US MkV R32 parts fiches that the springs carry the same part numbers...

Front Spring - 1K0411105JD (Yellow/White)
Rear Spring - 1K0511115GE or 1K0511115GF (Dependent on weight class, determine by options)

...So much for that idea.

I had planned on just driving the stock suspension for a while, but I'm rarely one to leave well enough alone for that long though. 1784 has 44k miles and as a Lotus driver and occasional Formula Ford racer I am pretty snobby about suspensions. I was looking to refresh the stock shocks at the very least (likely with Koni FSDs). I don't want to deal with aftermarket coil-overs though.

So, it ends up that 1784 did not come to me with stock springs / shocks as I was led to believe it would. I believe it has Neuspeed sport springs (1.4" lowering, ugh) and, as of yet, unidentified shocks (possibly the stock units). Ugh. The car is too low and responds poorly to road undulations (including scraping in some instances when encountering undulations while traveling at the speed limit). I will likely search out a set of stock springs to pair with Koni FSDs and give that a try. I don't have to raise the car back up until winter and I don't dislike the ride that much, per se, but when I have passengers in the car with more adult sensibilities than mine, I kinda cringe about the ride. I haven't had the car out on the track yet, but I don't think my current setup would perform that well.

So, after reading through this thread, it seems to me that there aren't any milder lowering spring options (like 0.75" lowering?)? The least amount of lowering seems like 1" for the KW1s. Is that correct? If so, looks like I'll source a set of stock springs and some fresh Koni FSDs and give that a try.

I'd like to hear people's thoughts and please let me know if you have a set of stock springs available.

Thx,
 
#151 ·
Hi Frank,

Congrats on the recent car purchase and welcome! I used to dream of being a moto journalist (car and / or motorcycle) and envy you the opportunity to drive so many different cars, but I decided I liked writing software allot better than words. It's cool to hear that someone with your level of exposure to a huge variety of cars pics the same one as us for his own! BTW - who do you write for?

It sounds like we have similar goals in terms of finding slightly stiffer than OE springs with no / minimal drop. That's interesting what you found on the euro R32 springs - I thought I had heard that they were a bit stiffer and lower on the euro MKV but maybe that is the case with the MKIV and not the MKV? Audi S3 springs are supposed to work as well, if you can find them. I guess OEMPlus used to sell them, but they don't seem to cary them any longer? I talked to a guy at ECS tuning the other day and asked about S3 springs and he said that there are allot of different part numbers for S3 springs, so you would need to know which PN you needed (if you did, they could order them).

Anyway, I was contemplating trying some Passat springs (B6 gen, 3.6 4mo) but IDK... I keep going back and forth on that idea. I'm thinking OE Passat might actually raise the car a bit, and it's pretty hard to guess where Passat lowering springs would get you. In theory, something like the H&R sports which, for the 3.6 4mo wagon are supposed to lower 1.2" (30mm) front and rear would lower our car which 350-400 lbs lighter less - but how much less and how they would ride??? Tough to say. I've done a little bit of searching on euro sites for other spring options and did find that KW makes 20mm F/R Passat lowering springs which don't seem to be offered through any US site that I've found. I'm getting a shipping quote from a UK company and might give those a try (was almost going to just order them but shipping came up as 88 bucks or something crazy) Here is a link to those in case anyone is interested. Maybe they have a similar set for the MKV R32 - I have not searched for that option yet.

Other options I'm looking at are possibly less of a gamble in terms of achieving desired ride height and quality, but also allot more $$. One being a Ground Control coilover kit, which let's you pick whatever weight Eibach springs you want with several different dampener options, including Koni (I already have FSDs). The only thing I'm concerned about there is getting spring weight right and the fact that there are no progressive spring options - only strait rate. They do also offer tender springs, so a dual rate set up might achieve a similar effect to progressive. Since ryeboy is doing this kit and also trying to stay stock ride height, I might just wait and see how his turns out before trying the Passat spring idea.

For coilovers, the KW's seem to offer the least lowering of any that state their specs. The VWR offerings sold through APR seem promising, but they don't state what their height adjustment range actually is. I'm trying to find that out. They offer lowering springs for GTIs and such, but actually state that they do not recommend use of lowering springs on any 4mo/quattro car and point you to their coils. This seems to imply that their coils will allow stock or very close to stock ride height. I called APR and was told they will let you maintain stock height, but they had no numbers of adjustment range and didn't seem to know anything else that was not already on the web site, so I'm skeptical. I emailed VWR in the UK and got this response:

Hi Jake,

Thanks for the message, good questions. The 4Mo definitely works best at near-stock ride height.

Given that the R32 is already runs lower than the regular G5s, then our suspension will just give you the OEM ride height at highest setting. So no problem there. You can of course then drop the car a long way from there if you ever choose to.

Hope that helps,

Best wishes,

Sam
I replied to ask again if they can give me an actual adjustment range, so we'll see. These coils are also pretty cool in that they come with progressive springs but you can get strait rate and swap them back and forth, and even add adjustable camber plates if you want. The only bummer is that adding those options or adjustable dampening all increase the price quite a bit. Comparing the non-adjustable ones to KW V1s or the adjustable to KW V3s with the current pricing of KWs - the KWs are fair bit less expensive and already more of a known quantity. I would be pretty torqued if I decided to pony up the extra $$ for the VWR units only to find that they still drop my car an inch at the highest setting when I could just just got the KWs.

If only H&R / Eibach / KW / Swift / anyone made direct OE replacement springs for AWD cars that maintained stock ride height, were still progressive, but just less progressive and stiffer........

Anyway... if I get a more concrete answer from VWR, I might just give those a shot. If so, I would have a set of OE springs and Koni FSDs for sale, if you were interested in used ones :) My springs have 35K miles and the Koni's only about 5K.

-Jake
 
#160 ·
Hi Frank,

Congrats on the recent car purchase and welcome! I used to dream of being a moto journalist (car and / or motorcycle) and envy you the opportunity to drive so many different cars, but I decided I liked writing software allot better than words. It's cool to hear that someone with your level of exposure to a huge variety of cars pics the same one as us for his own! BTW - who do you write for?

It sounds like we have similar goals in terms of finding slightly stiffer than OE springs with no / minimal drop. That's interesting what you found on the euro R32 springs -

If only H&R / Eibach / KW / Swift / anyone made direct OE replacement springs for AWD cars that maintained stock ride height, were still progressive, but just less progressive and stiffer........

Anyway... if I get a more concrete answer from VWR, I might just give those a shot. If so, I would have a set of OE springs and Koni FSDs for sale, if you were interested in used ones :) My springs have 35K miles and the Koni's only about 5K.

-Jake
Thanks Jake!

Yes, the auto journalist gig is a nine year old boy's dream come true, and, in the final analysis... we're all just nine year old boys. I've driven / tested everything from Chevy Aveo / Suzuki SX4 to Toyota Sienna (Swagger Wagon Baby!) to Lamborghini Gallardo (LP560-4, Balboni, Spyder, etc.) Aston Martin DBS / Bentley Continental Supersports and pretty much the full gamut of everything in between. All told, I've driven / tested about 750 cars over the past ten years. You won't make a fortune doing it, but the fringe benefits are sublime.

So, you bring up a good point regarding my deciding on a MkV R32 after having been exposed to so many cars in the past decade. I can't afford any car that my heart desires, but I can afford the reasonable majority. I am a HUGE proponent of having a street car and a track / race car, if your budget and situation allows. Hence the Lotus and the R32. The Lotus is truly unique in most all of autodom in that it is pure and focused and unlike anything else out there (feather weight, bonded / extrded aluminum tub, etc.) and, well driven, it can embarass / outperform cars that cost 2-3x as much... at the track. It's a woefully inadequate street car though. On that side, the R32 represents an amazing amount of comfort, technology and performance for a serious value proposition. For those interested, here's a sampling of the more desirable vehicles I've tested:
http://amoroso.smugmug.com/Cars


But, at the risk of going off topic... allow me to bring it back to suspensions...

As to your stock springs with FSDs, short of my finding another set of springs in the interim (and my ability to purchase FSDs directly from Koni), I am VERY interested in your set! Please PM me to discuss.

Frank, I think you can get Swift to make you some custom springs based on whatever you have at the moment. I'd send them the springs you have and tell them you want to be a bit higher and go for linear rate springs with higher rates on whatever new dampers you choose. By the way, welcome and thanks for contributing more to this thread.
While that sounds appealing: something slightly lower and slightly firmer / less progressive (but still progressive), I don't feel up to the logistics / trial & error. If there were an off the shelf solution I would be ALL OVER IT!

Glad to be here. Just in case my diligence / sources are flawed can anyone on here check US and Euro parts fiches and confirm those part numbers? I'd very much like to find out that there is a factory alternative for slightly lower and stiffer progressive springs.

Frank The Car Guy
I'd just go back to OEM for your needs with some nice shocks, like you had mentioned. I tracked my car on the OEM setup for a few years before making any suspension modifications, car felt great OEM.
Very likely that's where I end up. First step is to find out what's on my "new" car. Hell, if it's a set of adjustable coilovers, maybe I can order lower rate springs and adjust the ride height up. If it's just a set of H&R sport springs, or the like, I'll likely put them up on here as a trade for a set of stock springs.
 
#152 ·
Frank, I think you can get Swift to make you some custom springs based on whatever you have at the moment. I'd send them the springs you have and tell them you want to be a bit higher and go for linear rate springs with higher rates on whatever new dampers you choose. By the way, welcome and thanks for contributing more to this thread.
 
#153 ·
Slave, any idea what swift would charge for something like that?

BTW, in case anyone saw my comment on the KW Passat springs - they actually lower by 40mm. They lower a Passat R36 by 20mm, but the R36 already sits 20mm lower than other Passats. I guess there was a Passat sport package that used 15mm lower springs, so the sport package or R36 OE springs might work.
 
#154 ·
I think you would provide them with the info they need (car model/spring specs/or just send them your current springs) and they will have some that already fit your application or custom make them. Probably around $500 either way.

Thanks for the other info!
 
#158 ·
You got 'em? They are probably the best option besides Ohlins at this point but again, wish there was more info about these things. Can't wait to hear about the TrackSport options:


It's funny...APR website states, "Visit our TrackSport page to learn more.", yet, there is no link and I didn't see a TrackSport page anywhere.:screwy:
 
#162 ·
Yes, the auto journalist gig is a nine year old boy's dream come true, and, in the final analysis... we're all just nine year old boys.
Hey... :what: I resemble that remark :laugh:

Well, does anyone have any experience with these...
http://www.oemplus.com/springs-eu-r32-p-672.html
I know, confusing, right? I would also like to hear if anyone has tried these. They call them "EU R32" springs in the OEMPlus URL / title, then they say "3.2 S-line A3" when you look at the details. For anyone looking at this, I suggest 3.2 A3 should be fine but be careful about S3 or any other springs from a 2.0 car, as the VR6 is heavier than 2.0, thus requiring stiffer springs. That said, these might be worth a try. I am also considering trying OE passat 3.6 4mo "sport suspension" springs which are only 15mm lower (for the Passat) and designed for a car that is about %10 heavier, so on paper - seems about right.

As to your stock springs with FSDs, short of my finding another set of springs in the interim (and my ability to purchase FSDs directly from Koni), I am VERY interested in your set! Please PM me to discuss.
Cool, I'll let you know if I decide to sell those, but might take another month or two for me to decide. Don't wait for me though. I gather there are good sale prices on Koni's right now, and you should be able to find someone's OE springs. Not sure if user "ryeboy" is selling his, but he has just (or soon will be) replaced his.

You got 'em? They are probably the best option besides Ohlins at this point but again, wish there was more info about these things. Can't wait to hear about the TrackSport options:

It's funny...APR website states, "Visit our TrackSport page to learn more.", yet, there is no link and I didn't see a TrackSport page anywhere.
Slave - just curious - how / why are you so confident that these VWR coils are that good? As for their site - I think APR largely copied and pasted text / content over from the VWR site, so just a guess (without looking) but there might be a tracksport page on the VWR site? Or they are mentioning a page on their site which does not exist and APR copied that text :)
 
#164 ·
Frank, I don't think you'd have to go through too much if any trial and error with Swift, I bet they have specs on most cars and a suitable solution "out of the box" already.

motrrrpsycho, I've stated before that there are companies that you should be able to trust based on the nature of their business. VWR is in the business of developing performance parts for VW and using those parts to compete with. They are not just a random company that has access to different parts and machines to put together things to sell purely for profit. Everything they offer has to be proven to work as intended or else they wouldn't exist. The same reason I can trust that a car made by quattro GmbH is going to be better and of higher performance than a car based on the same platform from the regular Audi factory...AMG to Benz, M to BMW, etc...

That being said, I'd personally still go with Ohlins if I ever had to change my stock suspension.
 
#165 ·
motrrrpsycho, I've stated before that there are companies that you should be able to trust based on the nature of their business. VWR is in the business of developing performance parts for VW and using those parts to compete with. They are not just a random company that has access to different parts and machines to put together things to sell purely for profit. Everything they offer has to be proven to work as intended or else they wouldn't exist. The same reason I can trust that a car made by quattro GmbH is going to be better and of higher performance than a car based on the same platform from the regular Audi factory...AMG to Benz, M to BMW, etc...
Hm, OK. I don't know, but was under the impression that VWR was not part of / directly affiliated with VW where the other brand pairings you mentioned were? In any case, I'm not making any kind of argument against VWR - just wondering what you are basing your level of confidence on that they are the best (besides Ohlins (in your words)). I don't know about this either, but am under the impression that these VWR street based product offerings are fairly new to the market? If so, and even if VWR are great at designing and producing race products, how do we know how good their street line will actually be? How do we know the same level of R&D has gone in to the street line as the racing line? Are there any independent reviews out there yet? I find it kind of odd that there are not more details on their site and that they can't answer a basic question such as "what is the height adjustment range relative to OE for the MKV R32?" Again - not arguing against them at all - they look good, probably are good, I'm just looking for more to base a decision to buy (or not) on.
 
#166 ·
motrrrpsycho, all good questions and I would want answers myself if I were buying anything. I do find it interesting that Ohlins and VWR are the only two companies that specifically design their products to not lower the car. If you don't trust VWR, I challenge you to find anything negative about Ohlin and any of their products regarding suspension performance (I'd really love to hear about it because every Ohlin product I've experienced has been fantastic). If you just list every company mentioned in this thread, I don't think any of them are as respected as Ohlin and I don't think any have had as much specific development on VW cars as VWR and I doubt it's just a coincidence that they both agree. Sure, VWR is not a direct subsidiary of VW like the others I mentioned but they do work directly with VW for performance development. Also, a company like Ohlin does not release products unless they know it will provide performance up to their standards because they don't need to mass market their products like most the other companies mentioned here.

Basically, the whole reason for this thread is because there is such a lack of info for this platform but if you have to go by blind trust, I'd trust Ohlin and VWR over anyone else.
 
#167 ·
Slave - again - I'm not trying to say anything negative about anybody :) I'm actually very open to the idea of trying some VWR coils, but just hoping to find more supporting info (since I have never heard of them before the last few weeks or whenever they popped up on the forum here with the APR announcement). So I'm just hoping to find test review articles from magazines, review posts from forum users or whatever before I drop 1500+. Ideal would be reviews of the street coils, but even reviews of any of their street products would help.

Ohlins are great - no argument there. They are a huge name in the motorcycle world as well. Lots of motorcycle road race teams use them and they come from the factory on several of the top tier exotic bikes. I'm sure their dampeners are dabomb.com, but I don't want to spend $2k / set, and I suspect I would still not be quite where I want to be for spring rates, so would still be looking for options there.

BTW - I did call Swift a couple weeks ago and described in detail what car I had and what I was looking for, and they (or at least the guy I talked to) did not have any idea what to recommend for me. I'm sure they are a great company, not putting them down - just saying they might not have an off the shelf spring solution for us, so if someone were to go that route, would probably need to send their OE's in to Swift as a reference point or something.

Maybe when Jay gets his suspension install done we can send his OE's on tour up to Swift and down to Vorchlag for analysis :)
 
#168 ·
Cool, I didn't think you were putting anyone down. I was just clarifying the reasons why I would trust those two companies over most the other ones. And of course, I agree that more info would be ideal. Again that's the entire point of the thread is to have more factual info and real world feedback. Thanks for looking into the springs. I'm looking forward to hearing more about the setups people are trying.
 
#170 ·
I hope APR/VWR can provide some more information on them before someone just buys them blindly...but I still think they will be better off buying these blindly than most others if someone does want to buy something now.:popcorn:
 
#172 · (Edited)
Thanks ECS...The ST Coilovers should be the same as KW V1's minus the inox-line anti corrosion feature. Can you provide any information that would give an idea on the ride and handling characteristics of any of the options you posted about? Specifically, spring rates?;)
 
#173 ·
Some good news for anyone interested in finally getting details on the stock springs AND some new replacement springs with higher rates and slightly lower stance. Frank The Car Guy has talked to people at Swift Springs regarding a custom spring set for our cars. He has a set of brand new OEM springs that he will send in for evaluation and development for new springs. They can do a one-off for him at a considerably high price but they mentioned that the price would drop to $250 a set if there was interest in 10 or more sets. Frank is getting in touch with Swift to get more details and answer some questions I had. Hopefully, Frank will chime in when he gets some details. I wasn't planning on doing anything with suspension yet but if we can get a set that is engineered to our liking for $250, that sounds pretty good to me. Anyone else who is interested, please post up so we can get an idea of the interest for these. Thanks Frank!
 
#181 ·
Thanks for posting Slave.

I'm likely going to set up a conference call for you and I to catch up with Leonard at Swift. Gimme a call to coordinate when you get a chance.

In the interim, I'm going to go drive a stock R32 so I can remember what it feels like.

I've confirmed that my car has Neuspeed springs on stock shocks. Not the greatest setup. I had it out on the road course last Friday and had speeds not been supressed due to cold (46 degrees), rain and hail, I think the setup really would have shown same major shortcomings.

I'm hoping that slightly lower and slightly stiffer along with a good alignment makes for a well rounded dual purpose machine.

I'm still leaning towards Koni FSD dampeners.
 
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