Suspension spec thread

[Slave IV]

Jay - any updates with more seat time? I have heard from a shop that has installed them that the VWR coils do NOT retain stock ride height - they will lower you as much as anything else out there - so I would rather get KW's based on price, plus found out they have spacers available, plus overall user reviews (have found no reviews on VWRs so far) -OR- do the GC kit ala ryeboy

Lowering is not the only factor...dampening and spring rates play a big part and a minor drop of <1" should be fine with any setup. KW's min drop is .8"F, .4"R, not sure what it is for VWR and we have little to no info on any of the other important stuff from either company. I take most user reviews for anything with a grain of salt..most useful ones include the driver's ability level, what their suspension goals are and some kind of comparison that evaluates the differences. Very few have all that and even then, it's still just some guy on the internet. Best way is to try first and if you can't do that, base off the company, their history and philosophy on their products and whatever data you can find. Of all the options available, KW is probably the best option for a decent "cookie cutter" setup out the box. VWR is probably more finely tuned for our cars and I'd imagine they did more R&D with our actual car than most others. Ohlins is known for making some of the most uncompromising suspensions available and it's hard to believe they would ever release anything without thorough testing and knowing they are making something that is geared towards improving performance. Most of it comes from the technology and quality of their dampers which should improve any car given they are designed to fit and are valved properly.

[JRutter]

Though happy with my set up, I think a simpler way to go may be to simply change out the OEM struts/dampers for the Ohlins and use the OEM springs. You probably would get 80% of the benefit of my system without the coilover issues.

The plan is to use the A3 3.2 Euro S-Line springs that I already have. I think that we talked about them at one point, and I'm glad I kept them.

[BlixaBargeld]

What rates do the euro a3 springs have.

Iro 80% with stock springs.... fine for Koni FSD for 600 but not for Oehlins for 2200

Btw wonder how much diff FSD <> Oehlins ...

[JRutter]

I will try to get them measured as part of the "incentive" to buy the Ohlins.

[Harry_Krishna]

Just an OT FYI, but sure made my day!

I just read the recent Subaru Drive Performance magazine. They featured two driver's different builds of their WRX's for things like autox and track - and one of them still prefers the KW V3 coilovers.

What makes my day, is that *I* was the first Sube racer to start using the KW's (on my 05 STi) after I had exposed how the Zeals were crap, and started promoting the KW'S on the Subaru NASIOC web forums. Then all the other SCCA folk started to use them too. So I started a legacy that is still happening today. Might not seem like a big deal, but the way things have been going lately, to see that I have had a positive impact on others, still going on yet today, is a heck of a great feeling for me.

Now if only I could get a real job, and my life back again, you guys have given me so many new ideas to do to my car, that were never around back in 08 when I first got my .:R.

[JRutter]

Pulled out my original springs and the Euro springs from storage and cleaned them up to send to Tyrol Mike. He has a basic spring rate jig and gets weights at 1", 2", 3" of compression. Here are some comparison pics and basic info. Just a reminder, this is for the A3 3.2, which is more like the 5-door R32.

US Front: Red/Pink/Pink/Pink, 12.375" x 5.75" OD, 5.25 coils @ 0.519" thick

Euro Front: Green/Gray/Blue/Blue, 10.25" x 5.9" OD, 4.75 coils @ 0.569" thick

US Rear: Green/Green/Blue/Blue/Blue, 12.5" x 4.75" OD, 7.6 coils @ 0.531" thick

Euro Rear: Brown/Gray/Gray/Gray, 10.625" x 4.68", 7.5 coils @ 0.555" thick

[SilverSquirrel]

good photo!

Can you post up one more measurement comparison: Outside Diameter of Coils.


Best way is to lay them down on a flat surface, and using a straight edge along the lenght of the spring, measure between the flat surface and the straight edge (dont go diagonal across the coil, it will give you a larger measurement)

thanks!

[Slave IV]

Thanks! I never paid attention to the way springs look on and off the car but I was looking at my rear springs over the weekend when the car was on a lift and they seem to be very different than the one in the picture. They looked like a linear design to me mainly because I didn't notice the tapering but maybe some of the tapered part was covered. Also seemed like more coils but I'm not sure about that part.

Frank, if you are still lurking around here, any more word from Swift about the springs you wanted them to make for you (us)?

[JRutter]

Can you post up one more measurement comparison: Outside Diameter of Coils.

edited post above to include this

[ryeboy]

Pulled out my original springs and the Euro springs from storage and cleaned them up to send to Tyrol Mike. He has a basic spring rate jig and gets weights at 1", 2", 3" of compression. Here are some comparison pics and basic info. Just a reminder, this is for the A3 3.2, which is more like the 5-door R32.

US Front: Red/Pink/Pink/Pink, 12.375" x 5.75" OD, 5.25 coils @ 0.519" thick

Euro Front: Green/Gray/Blue/Blue, 10.25" x 5.9" OD, 4.75 coils @ 0.569" thick

US Rear: Green/Green/Blue/Blue/Blue, 12.5" x 4.75" OD, 7.6 coils @ 0.531" thick

Euro Rear: Brown/Gray/Gray/Gray, 10.625" x 4.68", 7.5 coils @ 0.555" thick

I briefly owned S3 Euro springs and sold them to Katie before ever installing them. I also briefly questioned the wisdom of this quick sale, but ultimately I'm a happy camper with my linear springs: 7" 450lb/in front; 10" 350lb/in rear. Now sitting 25 1/4" FTG on 245/40 R17 tires.

[Lolasaurus_Rex]

I briefly owned S3 Euro springs and sold them to Katie before ever installing them. I also briefly questioned the wisdom of this quick sale, but ultimately I'm a happy camper with my linear springs: 7" 450lb/in front; 10" 350lb/in rear. Now sitting 25 1/4" FTG on 245/40 R17 tires.

Pics of setup please.

[motrrrpsycho]

Jay, are you at the same ride height front and rear?

For anyone else considering the ground control option, I finally pulled the trigger and tried it. When I talked to GC, I told them that I wanted to do the same springs as Jay with the same kind of goals in mind of being more track capable yet not too excessively stiff for rough roads, and that I wanted to stay close to stock ride height (or maybe just a tad lower). I basically said, that's what I want, these are the springs Jay used and he is happy and asked if the same springs should work for me to accomplish the same things with my Koni FSDs. They said yes, so I ordered and got them installed. Well, turns out rear is good (for me) sitting at about 25.75 now, but I'm at about 26.75 in the front with adjusters all the way down at both ends. OK, sure, its not an exact science and you take some risk when trying things like this, but GC takes no responsibility. They are saying they gave me what I asked for and seem not to recall other details of the conversation pre-purchase. And -NOW- they tell me that the spring they normally sell with the MKV / MKVI kits to use with Konis is a 5" 425 lb spring They are going to ship me some different springs to try now, but its just a bit frustrating to have to pay for labor or spend wrench time re-doing something that I already paid to have done once. I'm going to try 5.5" 475 lb springs for the front which should put me at about 25.25 in the front (maybe a hair higher initially, but I'm assuming both ends will still settle a bit). Anyway, my point is not to rant or bag on GC, but mainly just to share the infos in case anyone else wants to try a GC + Koni set up. I'll report back with impressions and such after getting the new front springs in.

[Lolasaurus_Rex]

Maybe the Koni shocks have a longer body than the Ohlins?

How much were the GC sleeves/springs? If you dont mind.

Yeah, that just happened.

[motrrrpsycho]

I guess price just went up $20 recently to $419:
http://www.ground-control-store.com/...p/II=717/CA=65

Konis have big spring perches welded to the bodies that don't allow the GC hardware to mount as far down on the shock body as they apparently can with the Ohlins. This is just a random pic I grabbed, but give you an idea:

[BlixaBargeld]

That stinks. All the add trouble

[Lolasaurus_Rex]

Is there a way to drill through those welds to remove it?

[Lolasaurus_Rex]

How do the sport and street shocks compare to the FSDs?

[motrrrpsycho]

Thanks guys. Can the perches be removed? Well... 'anything' is possible I suppose, but seems like it would be pretty difficult to cut / grind it down far enough without either mangling the body or spending a LOT of time on it. Difference between FSD and other Konis? Not sure if that's what you meant, but I asked the GC guy about Koni yellows - if they would allow for a longer front spring - and he thought no, they are about the same as the FSDs as far as perch position.

[Lolasaurus_Rex]

Yeah, other Konis. Difference as far as spring rates they can handle and drop heights. The FSDs are the only dampening adjustable ones, correct?

Really interested in seeing your results. This looks like the setup I will be going with.

[whyderp]

I'm looking to do some suspension mods to my car, and was wondering what you guys recommend for an aggressive track setup. I have a pretty conservative budget and was leaning toward a fairly stiff spring/strut combo. I'm not too worried about height adjustability. Thanks!

[yellow bunny]

I guess price just went up $20 recently to $419:
http://www.ground-control-store.com/...p/II=717/CA=65

Konis have big spring perches welded to the bodies that don't allow the GC hardware to mount as far down on the shock body as they apparently can with the Ohlins. This is just a random pic I grabbed, but give you an idea:

I have done similar coilover conversion in the past with struts that have perches as above. Basically it involves cutting off the perch, and grinding down the weld bead. the ring that you see at the base just below the perch is where the coilover sleeve will sit. DO NOT remove that ring. Did this many of times in the past with Bilstein sport struts using coilover conversion sleeves from Shine Racing Services. I have also assisted friends in the past with use of the Ground Control sleeves. Very similar setup and easily to do.

Manny

[JRutter]

I'm a happy camper with my linear springs: 7" 450lb/in front; 10" 350lb/in rear. Now sitting 25 1/4" FTG on 245/40 R17 tires.

Sounds perfect.

[Lolasaurus_Rex]

I'd love to see pictures of the ride heights with these setups.

[abeR]

I'd love to see pictures of the ride heights with these setups.

yes please

and thanks

[SilverSquirrel]

I'm a happy camper with my linear springs: 7" 450lb/in front; 10" 350lb/in rear. Now sitting 25 1/4" FTG on 245/40 R17 tires.

What FSB/RSB are you using with those spring rates?

[Slave IV]

What FSB/RSB are you using with those spring rates?

I think he is running stock sway bars..most people trying to improve handling on this car stick with stock to prevent wheel lift.

[ryeboy]

I'd love to see pictures of the ride heights with these setups.

Sorry all. I'm not very photo savvy and am currently away from my stash of photos, but I will attempt to post some upon my return this weekend. Thanks for your continued patience.

[BlixaBargeld]

Yeah, other Konis. Difference as far as spring rates they can handle and drop heights. The FSDs are the only dampening adjustable ones, correct?

Spring rate not equal resulting drop
Shocks don't "drop heights"
FSD are not dampening adjustable (while they adjust they do it on their own)

I hope you at least have the excuse that american is your second or third language as it is

[JRutter]

Shocks don't "drop heights"

I just assumed that the exact position of the lower perch around the strut could be tweaked by the mfgr. But in back, 100% spring/perch determined

[Lolasaurus_Rex]

Spring rate not equal resulting drop
Shocks don't "drop heights"
FSD are not dampening adjustable (while they adjust they do it on their own)

I hope you at least have the excuse that american is your second or third language as it is

Damn son, you're really trying hard.

I guess the concept of a question is way too much for you to comprehend.

IIRC, some shocks can't handle high springs rates or they blow.

IIRC, some shocks can't handle a lower ride height or they will blow.

I asked if the FSDs were dampening adjustable. It wasn't a statement.

Just so we are clear. (Follow along with me)

I never said/implied spring rates and drop are the same.

I never said/implied shocks drop heights. (Although, a short bodied strut will lower your height.)

They were questions, not statements.

Good day.

[BlixaBargeld]

Damn son, you're really trying hard.

I guess the concept of a question is way too much for you to comprehend.

IIRC, some shocks can't handle high springs rates or they blow.

IIRC, some shocks can't handle a lower ride height or they will blow.

I asked if the FSDs were dampening adjustable. It wasn't a statement.

Just so we are clear. (Follow along with me)

I never said/implied spring rates and drop are the same.

I never said/implied shocks drop heights. (Although, a short bodied strut will lower your height.)

They were questions, not statements.

Good day.

Again I have to say " Learn how to write" as what you type differs from what you think you did.

Go have unnatural relations with you sister

[Lolasaurus_Rex]

So its my fault that you assumed something I didn't write? That's a new one.

[Lolasaurus_Rex]

Sorry, Slave. I didn't mean for the drama of my thread to spill into this one. This is a very informative thread and I'd hate for it to get cluttered.

Some idiots just can't respect boundries.

[jedy617]

I hope it's cool to ask this hear, but I'm deciding on Neuspeed springs or ST coil overs. Mainly worried about ride comfort as I had H&R coilovers on my gti and they were so harsh. I assume the Neuspeed ride better, while the ST's give more drop and handle better (Also cost more). All I want is some lowering, good ride comfort, and a little increase in handeling for as cheap as possible... which is a hard combo to find. Any advice? (There are no spring rates for either here so I dont know)

[BlixaBargeld]

The HPA SHS kit is not a bad compromise between comfort and lowering. Not sure if they solved the issues they had at one point in time.