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    Thread: Suspension spec thread

    1. Member Slave IV's Avatar
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      07-06-2012 09:20 PM #201
      Thanks! I hope I can get in on that deal, sent them an email already.

      As for springs, I'm not sure but I think H&R and Neuspeed springs may be linear. The Swift Springs Frank The Car Guy and I are interested in getting are definitely linear.
      If your gas cap light comes on even if you think you tightened the cap, try pulling on the cap as you tighten it. Worked for me.
      Help us with suspension specs!
      Vag Evolution: MkI Rabbit -> MkII 16v GTI -> B5 S4/MkV .:R32

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      07-06-2012 09:33 PM #202
      awesome thread!
      as a new R32 owner I think my suspension has been tampered with even-though I was told it was stock. My mechanic says its stock as well, but the car rides relatively low. and pictures of other R32's ride higher than mine. I've looked underneath and cant really tell...

      None the less it creaks and clunks, but reasonable for city driving. perhaps i'm OCD, but I'm not happy with the current state.

      I ordered the tyrol kit, waiting for the stainless set, I'll post something up as soon as I have them installed.

      curious to see where this thread leads.

    3. Member Mr_Peach's Avatar
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      07-06-2012 09:43 PM #203
      Mine rides low too, and it's bone stock on suspension. I think they just settle after five years and 87k miles.

      Mine creaks and clunks as well, but I still track it. I think freshening the suspension will improve things, but I'm not at all afraid to track it in the present condition.

      Will this thread end? Perhaps not.
      "If the car feels like it's on rails, you are probably driving too slowly." - Ross Bentley, Ultimate Speed Secrets

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      07-06-2012 09:52 PM #204
      hmmm... eager to track it. but scared at the same time until my breaks and tires are upgraded.

      I feel this board has corrupted my mind to think a perfectly trackable car stock is not even worthy to see pavement!!!!!

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      07-06-2012 09:53 PM #205
      Quote Originally Posted by Slave IV View Post
      Sounds great so far! I'm sure the subframe and new passat parts contributed to the improvement a bit but that's the exact description I would give for every Ohlins suspensioned car I've tried compared to anything else. Basically, it keeps you so planted that it instills confidence and comfort in any situation. I was already sure before but I'm definitely getting Ohlins if/when I ever have to change my suspension on this car. I might just go with the regular replacement instead of also getting the coilover conversion kit but we'll see.
      BTW, I think the RB calipers and rotors that drop 23 lbs per side are likely bigger contributors to unsprung weight (and handling) than the 3.5 lb per side accounted for by the aluminum spindles. Jake (motorpsycho?) had the alu spindles and LCAs and when he later installed the RB "sbk", he noted an additional dramatic change in handling, steering, and front-rear balance. He had a nice review if one searches.

      Unfortunately, my simultaneous changes make it difficult to sort out what changed what. In any case, I'm a happy camper so far. The Ohlins keep getting smoother as they break in without losing any of that planted feeling. Wow.

    6. Member Slave IV's Avatar
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      07-06-2012 10:06 PM #206
      Quote Originally Posted by ryeboy View Post
      BTW, I think the RB calipers and rotors that drop 23 lbs per side are likely bigger contributors to unsprung weight (and handling) than the 3.5 lb per side accounted for by the aluminum spindles. Jake (motorpsycho?) had the alu spindles and LCAs and when he later installed the RB "sbk", he noted an additional dramatic change in handling, steering, and front-rear balance. He had a nice review if one searches.

      Unfortunately, my simultaneous changes make it difficult to sort out what changed what. In any case, I'm a happy camper so far. The Ohlins keep getting smoother as they break in without losing any of that planted feeling. Wow.
      RB upgrade definitely made a difference (probably more than the spindles as you say) but I was staying OT in a way and I know it can make a big difference if you got new spindles and your old ones were very worn. It sounds like you've done a very good job in selecting parts to upgrade your car with for someone who claims to be a newb. Part of the purpose of this thread is to help people make a more informed choice but I'm glad you sound like you made the right choice before I made it.

      Quote Originally Posted by vigs12 View Post
      awesome thread!
      as a new R32 owner I think my suspension has been tampered with even-though I was told it was stock. My mechanic says its stock as well, but the car rides relatively low. and pictures of other R32's ride higher than mine. I've looked underneath and cant really tell...

      None the less it creaks and clunks, but reasonable for city driving. perhaps i'm OCD, but I'm not happy with the current state.

      I ordered the tyrol kit, waiting for the stainless set, I'll post something up as soon as I have them installed.

      curious to see where this thread leads.
      Thanks! Hope some of those creaks are fixed with the Subframe Collar kit...Mine is still working perfect with no noises but I want in on that kit just because I like my car to be nice and tidy.

      Well, I was hoping that this thread would be for consumers who like to be more informed and encourage some manufacturers and retailers to start giving factual data about their products but so far, none of them who didn't already have. I think it's pretty clear that there are two main markets here. One for those who just want suspension for low and show and another who wants it for increased handling performance and/or comfort. From the options and information available, it seems like the first category seems to be the majority and that's who most companies are aiming at so the less info they need to provide to make a sale, the better. If you want performance, I think we've narrowed it down to a very few options and those companies who offer these options have been very transparent and helpful with providing as much info as they can from the start.

      Good luck and I hope this thread and others like it live on!
      If your gas cap light comes on even if you think you tightened the cap, try pulling on the cap as you tighten it. Worked for me.
      Help us with suspension specs!
      Vag Evolution: MkI Rabbit -> MkII 16v GTI -> B5 S4/MkV .:R32

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      07-06-2012 10:07 PM #207
      Quote Originally Posted by Slave IV View Post
      Thanks! I hope I can get in on that deal, sent them an email already.

      As for springs, I'm not sure but I think H&R and Neuspeed springs may be linear. The Swift Springs Frank The Car Guy and I are interested in getting are definitely linear.
      What are the dimensions and rates of the Swift spring of which you speak? It seems that it may be tough to dial in ride height precisely with non-OEM springs. Obviously, the Neuspeed and H&R springs will fit OEM perches, but will the Swifts seat properly? I went with the GC coilover kit b/c I figured that without some adjustability, it would be tough to dial in a balanced F/R ride height. Right now, I'm down maybe 1/2" over stock which I can live with. The front started a tad higher than the rear, but is now settling to about the same 1/2" drop as the rear. Tom will sort this all on Monday.

    8. Member Slave IV's Avatar
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      07-06-2012 10:19 PM #208
      Quote Originally Posted by ryeboy View Post
      What are the dimensions and rates of the Swift spring of which you speak? It seems that it may be tough to dial in ride height precisely with non-OEM springs. Obviously, the Neuspeed and H&R springs will fit OEM perches, but will the Swifts seat properly? I went with the GC coilover kit b/c I figured that without some adjustability, it would be tough to dial in a balanced F/R ride height. Right now, I'm down maybe 1/2" over stock which I can live with. The front started a tad higher than the rear, but is now settling to about the same 1/2" drop as the rear. Tom will sort this all on Monday.
      I'm going to call Frank soon to figure all that out. The springs will be custom fit and made to hopefully be perfect for our preference since that's what Swift specializes in. They will be measuring and testing the OEM springs to determine the exact specs they need for the springs they make for us. 1/2" lower than stock sounds about perfect and as low as I'd want to go.
      If your gas cap light comes on even if you think you tightened the cap, try pulling on the cap as you tighten it. Worked for me.
      Help us with suspension specs!
      Vag Evolution: MkI Rabbit -> MkII 16v GTI -> B5 S4/MkV .:R32

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      07-06-2012 11:00 PM #209
      Quote Originally Posted by Slave IV View Post
      RB upgrade definitely made a difference (probably more than the spindles as you say) but I was staying OT in a way and I know it can make a big difference if you got new spindles and your old ones were very worn. It sounds like you've done a very good job in selecting parts to upgrade your car with for someone who claims to be a newb. Part of the purpose of this thread is to help people make a more informed choice but I'm glad you sound like you made the right choice before I made it.
      Any reduction of unsprung weight counts as suspension improvement! But I appreciate your desire to stay on topic. Just to be clear, I don't think spindles themselves wear much. They simply hold the axles, brake calipers, tie rods, and dampers in alignment.

      I put on used alu spindles purchased as salvage, but the new calipers, ball joints, hubs/bearings bolted up perfectly as well the existing tie rods. The new spindle bolt-on components (e.g., hubs, ball joints) may have made a small difference (although none were clearly worn out after 50K miles on my R). I'm trying to keep it real.

      Frankly, the 7 lb per side weight loss by going all aluminum (spindle + LCA) may be a less expensive way to reduce unsprung weight than buying 14 lb BBS wheels, but it pales in comparison to the unsprung weight already shed by going with inexpensive 17 lb wheels (OZ ultraleggera in my case, but many other examples out there) and lighter brake components (together worth 34 lbs per wheel).

      If I had it to do over again, I would have kept my OEM spindles, bearings, and such and spent the money elsewhere. I only went for the alu components because I was led to believe it would save 24 lbs per side. Jake and I have weighed everything and it is nowhere near that. 7-8 lbs per side maximum. Not insignificant, but not 24 lbs. Just sayin'.

    10. Member Slave IV's Avatar
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      07-06-2012 11:43 PM #210
      More good info, thanks!
      I think I will do Passat CAs and spindles at some point just because but I'm glad you gave the actual weight difference...so you do have the cas as well right?
      Anyways, thanks again...I'm trying to keep this thread as "real" as possible!
      If your gas cap light comes on even if you think you tightened the cap, try pulling on the cap as you tighten it. Worked for me.
      Help us with suspension specs!
      Vag Evolution: MkI Rabbit -> MkII 16v GTI -> B5 S4/MkV .:R32

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      07-07-2012 08:25 PM #211
      I am still searching for stock ride height / close to stock options and still not having much luck... A guy from a shop told me he installed a set of B6 Passat FK coils on a MKV R and was able to dial in stock ride height. I have not re-read this whole thread, but don't recall FK's being mentioned and don't see them in the OP. Are they any good???

      Ryan mentioned that KW makes spacers and directed me to this page on their site which seemed potentially promising. I called KW though, and they told me that they do not recommend using spacers to raise ride height above their suggested range for a given coil kit as you could over extend the upper end travel of the dampeners....

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      07-07-2012 11:35 PM #212
      Quote Originally Posted by motrrrpsycho View Post
      I am still searching for stock ride height / close to stock options and still not having much luck... A guy from a shop told me he installed a set of B6 Passat FK coils on a MKV R and was able to dial in stock ride height. I have not re-read this whole thread, but don't recall FK's being mentioned and don't see them in the OP. Are they any good???

      Ryan mentioned that KW makes spacers and directed me to this page on their site which seemed potentially promising. I called KW though, and they told me that they do not recommend using spacers to raise ride height above their suggested range for a given coil kit as you could over extend the upper end travel of the dampeners....
      I think I will end up near stock ride with the Ohlins and GC coilover kit. I was trying to spare everyone the details, but with 8" 350 lb/in springs in back and 7" 450 lb/in springs in front I'm sitting at 25 1/4" in front and 24 3/4" in back. The irony is that these FTG heights are with the fronts dialed all the way down and the backs dialed up to their maximum height. I am trying to get 10" 350 lb/in springs for the rear which should solve the problem. Donovan at GC has been helpful to a fault, so hopefully he will come through for this switch. Once said springs are in place we will have the freedom to dial down the back a tad and dial up the front a tad. It has been more futzing than I was hoping for, but once this has been worked out, it can serve as a template for anyone hoping to do the same.

      Remember: pioneers take the arrows; settlers take the land.

      So far, I'm a happy pioneer. Hopefully others can benefit from my travails.

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      07-08-2012 01:06 AM #213
      I salute you, sir Thanks for being the happy pioneer for us!!



      Hope you get it dialed in to your liking soon!!

    14. Member Mr_Peach's Avatar
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      07-09-2012 05:50 PM #214
      Quote Originally Posted by ryeboy View Post
      I think I will end up near stock ride with the Ohlins and GC coilover kit. I was trying to spare everyone the details, but with 8" 350 lb/in springs in back and 7" 450 lb/in springs in front I'm sitting at 25 1/4" in front and 24 3/4" in back. The irony is that these FTG heights are with the fronts dialed all the way down and the backs dialed up to their maximum height. I am trying to get 10" 350 lb/in springs for the rear which should solve the problem. Donovan at GC has been helpful to a fault, so hopefully he will come through for this switch. Once said springs are in place we will have the freedom to dial down the back a tad and dial up the front a tad. It has been more futzing than I was hoping for, but once this has been worked out, it can serve as a template for anyone hoping to do the same.
      So if I were to follow in your moccasin steps with a ground control kit, it would be:

      • 6" 450 lb/in for the front
      • 10" 350 lb/in for the rear



      Would that get me back to stock height, with maybe capability to do a 1" drop? I'm just thinking having that inch to play with is what would enable a corner balance.

      Thanks for your efforts and for sharing.
      "If the car feels like it's on rails, you are probably driving too slowly." - Ross Bentley, Ultimate Speed Secrets

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      07-10-2012 12:13 AM #215
      Quote Originally Posted by Mr_Peach View Post
      So if I were to follow in your moccasin steps with a ground control kit, it would be:

      • 6" 450 lb/in for the front
      • 10" 350 lb/in for the rear



      Would that get me back to stock height, with maybe capability to do a 1" drop? I'm just thinking having that inch to play with is what would enable a corner balance.

      Thanks for your efforts and for sharing.
      Peach,

      The 10" springs should come this week. Let me give a shout out to Donovan at GC who has accommodated my issues each time at no cost. Kudos!

      The 6" fronts make sense if you want the option to go lower. 25 1/4" is as low as I want to go. I'm already scraping (grazing blows) in places I never used to. My goal is to get front and back up to 25 1/2". I despise driving around with a paranoid mindset about the next road irregularity. It drains the fun out of what is otherwise an amazing machine to drive. Also, don't neglect suspension travel--you lose maybe a 1/2" when switching to 6" springs over 7"ers. With NYC roads, I like all the suspension travel I can manage while maintaining the other virtues of a suspension upgrade.

      I have an appointment with IMS on Monday. Tom wants to sort the suspension then. I can say that as things have broken in with the Ohlins, the ride has become amazingly smooth--to the point where I could imagine higher spring rates (or more aggressive damper settings) and it still being more comfortable than the OEM setup I enjoyed for 4 years. Meanwhile, the vehicle retains the advantages of higher spring rates already in place (reduced roll in corners, faster correction with surface dips, etc.). In any case, Tom of IMS has been a fantastic partner in all of this and I've come to trust his judgement about what to do next. I'll let you know how things progress.

      Edit: BTW, Tom plans to do a corner balance with the 7"/10" F/R combo. I'll let you know how that works out. You may not need 6" front springs to achieve that.
      Last edited by ryeboy; 07-10-2012 at 12:18 AM.

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      07-10-2012 12:31 AM #216
      That's awesome, ryeboy! Great to hear you are zeroing in on your set up and of the excellent support you are getting from GC and Tom @ IMS,

      Any unpleasant creeks, squeaks, rattles or other noises so far? (asking about noise from chasis / suspension - not the brakes which I know will be squealing at least until you get the pads and rotors fully mated)

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      07-10-2012 12:52 AM #217
      Quote Originally Posted by motrrrpsycho View Post
      That's awesome, ryeboy! Great to hear you are zeroing in on your set up and of the excellent support you are getting from GC and Tom @ IMS,

      Any unpleasant creeks, squeaks, rattles or other noises so far? (asking about noise from chasis / suspension - not the brakes which I know will be squealing at least until you get the pads and rotors fully mated)
      Hey Jake,

      New NVH? None to speak of. Before being broken in, the dampers were jarring enough to make some chassis noises that had been previously unknown. With some more miles, all that creamy goodness from the Ohlins has taken center stage, and those noises have vanished. Brake noise is abating somewhat, but currently I'm loving the control, modulation, and unsprung weight advantages over stock. Amazing. I'll add to your RB "SBK" review once things have settled down. As I said before, I always try to keep it real and the changes that I've made need time to break in. I'm happy to give updates as things progress, but I'll withhold a final verdict until I believe the new equipment has had a chance to make its case.

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      07-10-2012 12:58 AM #218
      I just realized that I missed a bunch of recent posts in this thread.

      vigs12 - go to the track!! You don't -need- to upgrade anything. I don't have a ton of experience here, just one HPDE (track day) and one AX last fall, but I had BLAST!! Helped me to appreciate my car on a another level and helped me realize some areas where I -wanted- (did not necessarily -need-) to upgrade. I have done a number of upgrades since which I'm chompin at the bit to get back to the track and see how they feel there, but it's not as though a bone stock R is crap. These cars are fun! Go enjoy it, hone your driving skillz some, sure, learn some stuff, yeah, but -- don't stress about it -- have some fun!

      As to the comments about saving weight here or there - ryeboy is right on. Reasonably priced, lightweight wheels and brake rotors (and calipers if you can swing it) are far more cost effective then aluminum spindles and LCAs.

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      07-10-2012 01:07 AM #219
      Hey Jake,

      New NVH? None to speak of. Before being broken in, the dampers were jarring enough to make some chassis noises that had been previously unknown. With some more miles, all that creamy goodness from the Ohlins has taken center stage, and those noises have vanished. Brake noise is abating somewhat, but currently I'm loving the control, modulation, and unsprung weight advantages over stock. Amazing. I'll add to your RB "SBK" review once things have settled down. As I said before, I always try to keep it real and the changes that I've made need time to break in. I'm happy to give updates as things progress, but I'll withhold a final verdict until I believe the new equipment has had a chance to make its case.
      Awesome! I have been wondering if the GC kit would be any ore prone then other coilover options for obtrusive noises, and if the H2 bearings would live up to their promise of no undue NVH. Look forward to hearing more as you get it dialed and settled in!

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      07-10-2012 09:23 AM #220
      Quote Originally Posted by motrrrpsycho View Post
      vigs12 - go to the track!! .
      might hit up a drag strip just to see 1/4 mile times and possibly arranging a trip to mosport (in ontario canada) to see what my car can do.

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      07-10-2012 09:44 PM #221
      Quote Originally Posted by motrrrpsycho View Post
      Awesome! I have been wondering if the GC kit would be any ore prone then other coilover options for obtrusive noises, and if the H2 bearings would live up to their promise of no undue NVH. Look forward to hearing more as you get it dialed and settled in!
      Just to be clear, I am not yet running the H2 LCA bearings. Unlike GC, they have not answered my emails or my phone messages. I'm trying to find a solution, but meanwhile Tom will install the 10" springs (gratis replacement from GC--amazing service!) and the DLI-Teknik mounts (thanks Rdurty2!) on Monday. Maybe also switch out the ET300 RB pads for Porterfield R4-S pads. I'm running the R4-S in the rear and don't have a bit of noise with the RB 2-piece rotors. This is something I meant to do from the get-go, but realized too late that I had the R4 race pads for the front, not the R4-S street pads.

      Anyone know someone with a Passat who would like spherical rear LCA bearings? I've got 'em!

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      07-10-2012 09:55 PM #222
      Ryeboy where is IMS located? 2k for Oehlins is not little but maybe a good investment ( vs my SHS). I just dd the car but more smoothness + better control is tempting.

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      07-11-2012 12:47 PM #223

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      07-11-2012 09:42 PM #224
      Quote Originally Posted by BlixaBargeld View Post
      Ryeboy where is IMS located? 2k for Oehlins is not little but maybe a good investment ( vs my SHS). I just dd the car but more smoothness + better control is tempting.

      IMS and UMS are both in Shelton, CT

      The Ohlins were purchased from Performance Shock in CA and the GC kit was fabricated by Donovan at GC. Tom is fantastic, but this is no more complicated than any other coilover install. I just didn't have the time. You might want to wait until I sort the set up before you pull the trigger.

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      07-11-2012 11:21 PM #225
      Does anyone know anything about suspension techniques (st) coils? form what i've read they are basically kw v1's with steal body's.

      any truth to this?
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