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    Thread: turbo on a 87 cabbi with a CIS motor?????

    1. Member oshwass1962's Avatar
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      11-30-2011 10:31 PM #1
      Ok here is the question......next to my shop is a european car repair shop (BMW, MERCEDES, VW..ect) I talked to the owner today and he asked me if i wanted to put a N.O.S. or a turbo on my 87. Well i told him that it couldent be done without converting to cartburated system. He said it can be done with the CIS system...the NOS would give me a 50% boost without damage to the motor and the turbo..well lets just say it would be faster then what it is now! My question to my fellow Vdubber friends on here is...CAN IT BE DONE WITH THE CIS ENGINE?????? WITHOUT CONVERTING TO CARB before i hand over my keys and cash. I will say that he is very good with european cars and have seen alot of his work .

    2. Member oshwass1962's Avatar
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      11-30-2011 10:32 PM #2
      Quote Originally Posted by oshwass1962 View Post
      Ok here is the question......next to my shop is a european car repair shop (BMW, MERCEDES, VW..ect) I talked to the owner today and he asked me if i wanted to put a N.O.S. or a turbo on my 87. Well i told him that it couldent be done without converting to cartburated system. He said it can be done with the CIS system...the NOS would give me a 50% boost without damage to the motor and the turbo..well lets just say it would be faster then what it is now! My question to my fellow Vdubber friends on here is...CAN IT BE DONE WITH THE CIS ENGINE?????? WITHOUT CONVERTING TO CARB before i hand over my keys and cash. I will say that he is very good with european cars and have seen alot of his work .
      But i still need other opnions!!

    3. Member DanGreco's Avatar
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      11-30-2011 10:55 PM #3
      Why would you convert to carbs to turbo it?

    4. Member canucker's Avatar
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      11-30-2011 11:45 PM #4
      Quote Originally Posted by Ocerg2200 View Post
      Why would you convert to carbs to turbo it?
      thats what i was thinking

      anyways to answer your question- you can do anythign you want its your car, but to do a Turbo PROPERLY you need to spend great amoutns of money! These engines were never desgned nor intended to have snails attached to them. Theres a local to me who supercharged a m1 gti (super sick car) and well the engine didnt last long got mass amounts of blowby and the engine just burned oil like cheech.

      but theres lots of things that can be done to remedy a CIS- getting lower compression pistons, running a independednt ignition system and upgrading the fuel (if i recall CIS runs lean under forced induction--not good)

      ive never done this this is just information ive gathered from forums and complied in my head. dont take my word for this. Im thinking of throwing a snail on my cabby in the summer but withit being potentially my only car probley wont go that far
      Mk1 crowd:: Put your bumpers back on!!

    5. Member s2kvondeutschland's Avatar
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      11-30-2011 11:57 PM #5
      Here you go!



      If your mechanic suggested going to carb for a turbo or running Nitrous on CIS, he must love HUGE headaches. I'm sure either can be done, but they're about the most difficult ways of doing both.
      "Zed's dead, baby, Zed's dead."

      RooflessVW

    6. Member oshwass1962's Avatar
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      12-01-2011 12:35 AM #6
      Quote Originally Posted by s2kvondeutschland View Post
      Here you go!



      If your mechanic suggested going to carb for a turbo or running Nitrous on CIS, he must love HUGE headaches. I'm sure either can be done, but they're about the most difficult ways of doing both.
      And thats why i ask first before i pay! I was trying to do the esier way then aba swap but i think id rather do that then have engine issues down the road plus im waiting for someone to reply to me on a 16v motor that he knows somone has just got to pay the frieght to ship it unless anybody else has one for sale and willing to ship

    7. n00b
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      12-02-2011 04:32 PM #7
      Why dont you just do a head swap to a 16v head it lowers the compression rate so you can put a power adder on it and it works with the maping system of the original heads ecm its not perfect but it will work this is one of the cheapest ways to go about adding a power adder

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      12-04-2011 10:31 AM #8
      Do your research before anything. Read articles, books, forums, etc. If you want to know about turbocharging, definitely pick up a copy of Corky Bell's Maximum Boost. Some parts get way over the head of the average enthusiast, but there's also great basic information and it's there in front of you, so you can read it and re-read it, if you have to.

      You can do anything with enough time, money, and/or know-how. Here's the '78 Turbo, ITB, CIS injected Rabbit that belongs to my buddy. They built this car in the early '90s well before megasquirt and such ever existed. Is it the greatest or fastest thing ever built? By no means, but it is still together and running just fine almost 20 years later.


    9. Member tolusina's Avatar
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      12-04-2011 12:09 PM #9
      Quote Originally Posted by YJSAABMAN View Post
      Do your research before anything. Read articles, books, forums, etc. If you want to know about turbocharging, definitely pick up a copy of Corky Bell's Maximum Boost. Some parts get way over the head of the average enthusiast, but there's also great basic information and it's there in front of you, so you can read it and re-read it, if you have to.

      You can do anything with enough time, money, and/or know-how. Here's the '78 Turbo, ITB, CIS injected Rabbit that belongs to my buddy. They built this car in the early '90s well before megasquirt and such ever existed. Is it the greatest or fastest thing ever built? By no means, but it is still together and running just fine almost 20 years later.

      Oh my....... and WOW!!
      I think I spy a Volvo fuel distributor, an Audi waste gate.
      What the heck is going on with that intake air ducting? As you say, it's still going 20 years later, so it must work, but, WTF?
      I wants that valve cover!!
      HEY!! There's no inline fuse in the battery cable!! What were those guys thinking??
      vwvortex search is weak. Instead, type search terms site:http://forums.vwvortex.com into the google search box.
      Quote Originally Posted by kamzcab86
      I hate reading: "But I bought this car for $500 and don't want to put another dime into it."
      ____(hey, it's VW AND it's electrical, what's not to fail?) neoBentley+

    10. Member oshwass1962's Avatar
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      12-04-2011 05:25 PM #10
      Quote Originally Posted by YJSAABMAN View Post
      Do your research before anything. Read articles, books, forums, etc. If you want to know about turbocharging, definitely pick up a copy of Corky Bell's Maximum Boost. Some parts get way over the head of the average enthusiast, but there's also great basic information and it's there in front of you, so you can read it and re-read it, if you have to.

      You can do anything with enough time, money, and/or know-how. Here's the '78 Turbo, ITB, CIS injected Rabbit that belongs to my buddy. They built this car in the early '90s well before megasquirt and such ever existed. Is it the greatest or fastest thing ever built? By no means, but it is still together and running just fine almost 20 years later.

      Damn thats impressive!!! thank you for a staight foward answer

    11. Member oshwass1962's Avatar
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      12-04-2011 05:27 PM #11
      Quote Originally Posted by tolusina View Post
      Oh my....... and WOW!!
      I think I spy a Volvo fuel distributor, an Audi waste gate.
      What the heck is going on with that intake air ducting? As you say, it's still going 20 years later, so it must work, but, WTF?
      I wants that valve cover!!
      HEY!! There's no inline fuse in the battery cable!! What were those guys thinking??
      staight piping i guess...lol

    12. 12-22-2011 09:41 PM #12
      Dude, no disrespect to your mechanic but that's really bad advice. I used to do carby turbo setups on cars that we had no other choice and made really miserable power in the first place i.e fiat X19 and so on.

      If you really want to go that route, not that i suggest it; the dellorto twin che sidedraft 45 is the ideal blowthru and the weber 32/36 dgv with boost secondaries for draw thru.

      It's just not work the the headache nowadays in my opinion. On the stock JH block you have with the stock vw 1.8 cis and an audi 5k or US 240 turbo wur; you would be able to fuel for at least 14 psig; 150-170 hp with no internal mods.

      You of course need the usual hardware like a good IC, decent turbo and early vac retard dizzy canister.

      My setup uses g60 block, jh head, log manifold, external wastegate; 240 turbo adlustuble fuel dizzy; 240 turbo us wur and vac retard canister.

      The car dynoed 212 hp at the wheels, pulled 12.8 at 105 mph on street tires w/ agh 020 tranny. It runs nice w 20 lbs boost and never leans out over 10.5 afr under full 20-21 psi boost. I understand that this is the limit for the stock g60 bottom end and headgasket. The car has been very reliable and driveable for over a year now so I see no need to move away from CIS. There are some tweaks I did to the fueling system to get it right where I wanted but they are really simple and involve off the shelf parts. I you are interested PM me and I will give you the details. Below are some pics of the setup in it's final iteration. Expect to spend around $500 for a basic setup and maybe $2000 for what I have. I do all the work myself so you have to factor the labor in if a third party is doing it.

      Cheers

      [IMG]342[/IMG]
      [IMG][/IMG]
      [IMG]348[/IMG]
      Last edited by Montrocco; 12-22-2011 at 09:48 PM. Reason: redid pictures

    13. Member
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      12-22-2011 09:52 PM #13
      A. pics dont work...

      B. thats amazing, and exactly what im looking to do with mine at some point...10psi...stock motor and CIS fuel system...

      good to read more and more people have done this....

      cheers to you...

    14. 12-22-2011 11:49 PM #14
      really? pics are not working? can you confirm that you can see them or not? I will try to re-post them another way if necessary because they show a pretty std and easy to duplicate cis-t setup cheers

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      12-23-2011 09:47 AM #15
      THERE THEY ARE.....now i see them!!!

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      12-23-2011 09:52 AM #16
      "early vac retard dizzy canister."

      this is the distributor correct?....and how can i tell, lets say in a JY which one will work?

      sorry for the dumb questions.....

    17. Member Romeo Chi's Avatar
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      12-23-2011 09:53 AM #17
      Quote Originally Posted by Montrocco View Post


      The car dynoed 212 hp at the wheels, pulled 12.8 at 105 mph on street tires w/ agh 020 tranny.
      WOW! How does this handle on the street? Daily drivable?

      I see pictures, but if you dont, you could probably click on them to go to the flikr account.

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      12-23-2011 10:00 AM #18
      OK, yes, im doing this.....ive done much harder turbo applications before, and this seems so straight forward....

      we should turn this thread into a HOW-TO turbo CIS Cabby situation.....parts lists, advise, and experience.......i think a lot of guys in here want to do this but asking about turbos seems to get the usual "search" reply........

      i love this fuel delivery setup, is functional, and its well designed, which makes it easy to modify as it compensates for extra air....thats just how it works, its wonderful.....


    19. 12-23-2011 10:05 AM #19
      The vacuum canister is one from early rabbit bosch distributors. Teh way to tell it apart is that it is bigger and has 2 nipples either side of the canister instead of just 1. I choes not to change my whole dizzy because

      1: I'm cheap
      2: my original dizzy was working fine so i just took it apart and replaced the canister.

      You can do it easily in 30 minutes or less with basic tools and some patience.

    20. 12-23-2011 10:10 AM #20
      Quote Originally Posted by tolusina View Post
      Oh my....... and WOW!!
      I think I spy a Volvo fuel distributor, an Audi waste gate.
      What the heck is going on with that intake air ducting? As you say, it's still going 20 years later, so it must work, but, WTF?
      I wants that valve cover!!
      HEY!! There's no inline fuse in the battery cable!! What were those guys thinking??
      BTW did you look on the bottom left of the fuel dizzy? RRFPR on the supply side of the fuel dizzy. I think it was Drake industries that made that?

      Anyways looks all business for a high hp turbo setup!!

    21. 12-23-2011 10:18 AM #21
      Quote Originally Posted by Romeo Chi View Post
      WOW! How does this handle on the street? Daily drivable?

      I see pictures, but if you dont, you could probably click on them to go to the flikr account.
      The handling is decent but I do not accelerate to full power on uneven surfaces. The way the boost comes it can catch me off guard completely and it has quite a bit of torque steer; the car just jumps 2ft in the next lane..

      For driving around town, i just turn it down to 14 psi. I have cockpit adj boost so can turn it up and down whenerver I need to.

      As far as daily drivable, just as any other mk1 I guess. Starts well cold, hot, idles well, fuel economy is decent if you don't always mash the gas. Car is responsive, only thing is that I always use 94 fuel now. Never had any detonation problems from day 1, knock on wood.

      If I have time this winter, I might try to put in the knock sensing box from the 87 gti that what I will have no probs running full advance ad low boost and the box will pull the timing if required.

      It maybe sounds a little fancy but you can have all the knock sensing setup from the junkyard under $100.



      Cheers

    22. 12-23-2011 10:20 AM #22
      Quote Originally Posted by mileycyrus View Post
      OK, yes, im doing this.....ive done much harder turbo applications before, and this seems so straight forward....

      we should turn this thread into a HOW-TO turbo CIS Cabby situation.....parts lists, advise, and experience.......i think a lot of guys in here want to do this but asking about turbos seems to get the usual "search" reply........

      i love this fuel delivery setup, is functional, and its well designed, which makes it easy to modify as it compensates for extra air....thats just how it works, its wonderful.....

      Right on, appreciate the , like i said before, if you or anybody else wants the bill of material or whatever to do it, just PM me or ask me to post it on here and I will.

      I did a lot of headscratching putting this together so if I can try and save the guys on here some hassle by giving them a setup that has been tested.

      Cheers

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      12-23-2011 11:10 AM #23
      Quote Originally Posted by Montrocco View Post
      Right on, appreciate the , like i said before, if you or anybody else wants the bill of material or whatever to do it, just PM me or ask me to post it on here and I will.

      I did a lot of headscratching putting this together so if I can try and save the guys on here some hassle by giving them a setup that has been tested.

      Cheers

      POST AWAY....no need to ask...PMing that to me would be fine, but lets share!!!!....

    24. 12-23-2011 09:13 PM #24
      So here it goes


      Since I had a few requests by PM yesterday; i will list here a bill of material that represent the 2 configurations I have had so far and any pertinent info so that I can share it with fellow dubbers. I have broken them down as such:

      This is the first part pertaining to the bill of material,

      Stage 1: Uses stock JH cabby motor and retains as many stock components as possible
      Can be put together for about $400-500 if you shop wisely. Will not work on 10:0 compression motors. If you have a doubt that the motor is not original, double check the code.

      At the very minimum, your engine should have good compression and top end. If not you could strip it down and rebuild for about $300 more but if I was faced with that dilemna, I would go right to stage two.

      This configuration will yield an honest 120-160 reliable and streetable hp depending on the current state of the engine and how much boost you are willing to put to it. It does this while retaining all the driveability of the stock system

      This is the bare minimum shopping list:

      - Cast iron t3 turbo manifold, Should be maximum $200, $150 if not tapped for external wg. Again try and shop wisely. Please do not use the mk1 toilet bowl manifold with a t3 flange on it, it is very restrictive, puts the turbo in the wrong place and is prone to cracking.

      - T3 45 trim turbo any reputable brand. I have found that this setup is a good all around match for the 1.8 counterflow engine. Good mid and top end power without being too laggy. RE:Ebay turbo, if you already happen to own a chinese, SSAC, etc.. T3 45 trim use it. There have been ppl that have them last a week, some a year although I think that lot of it has to do with the installer. Anyways I don't want to open this can of worms. Like I said, if you have it, if it's free or under $50 use it. If not, spend an extra $100 and buy brand name. You don't need a fancy ceramic bearing, ball bearing or water-cooled turbo. This is a budget build so a plain old high quality journal bearing turbo will provide more than enough air for stage one and acceptable for stage 2 without being too big as to need ball bearing to reduce spool time.

      External or internal wastegate? this is totally up to you. Internal is less piping work and gives good performance for stage 1. I run external because I don't have much experience with the internal setups. Once again, go with what you know/ feel most comfortable with

      - Saab 900 blackstone thin intercooler with metal tanks or audi 5000 intercooler metal tanks. The Audi one is second best IMHO becatuse of size, pressure drop and mounting position. It will do a decent job in a pinch though The blackstone is slim and can work well for FMIC. I had the blackstone originally. This is something you have to go find in the junkyard if you want to stay within budget
      Note: If you can absolutely not find those two metal tank intercoolers, you have 2 choices: Buy ebay bar and plate FMIC that will fit between rad and front core support (this is what I currently run and it works great). 2nd choice is to get one with plastic side tanks and to strap strap the intercooler with steel strapping to keep the crimping rings from coming apart until you can get something better. This setup will not live long at 14-15 psig however

      - Cobra air intake boot from 240 turbo, to connect the flowmeter to the turbo inlet

      - CIS WUR from audi 5000 turbo or 240 Turbo US. This is if you have CIS Lambda. If you have a Golf cabriolet, mk1 gti or scirocco with straight CIS, 1st make sure that the engine CR is as low as JH engine. If CR is ok then you then need a EURO 240 Turbo WUR. The US drops fuel pressure too low on cars without the frequency valve and will result in constant and unneccessary overfuelling. When you buy this make sure it is the right one that is being sold. Vortex is reliable but I have seen some of these on ebay that were not the real deal. The 240 turbo wur needs a boost check valve on the upper chamber or it will be damaged in short time. I will discuss this further in the setup part. Expect to pay around $50 for this but not much more, less at junkyard

      - Vac-retard distributor canister from early rabbit or other vw/audi products. Can even come off the points 009 distributor from late air-cooled. Just make sure it has a nipple on either side of the diaphragm.

      - DSM 1g BOV that will be used as diverter valve. These are cheap, readily available used and can bete modified to hold slightly over 20 psig when they are "crushed". Preferable to buy it crushed but if you want to do it yourself, it's easy and there are many posts on the dsm forums on how to do it.

      - 1.6 td oil pan or other suitable oil pan with an oil return. You can make you own also, just make sure you get a big enough bung, 3/4 is ok. make sure you weld this high enough so that the port will stay uncovered when the car is at rest. Some kits and others on here have sometimes suggested to drill and tap the block for an oil return. You can do this only if you NEVER plan on installing a windage tray. The amount of oil returning from the turbo will discharge on top of it and will completely defeat the purpose of having the windage tray. I have one so my only option is to return to the pan. it is ok if you have the 16v partial tray or the oil baffle.

      - g60 stock cam. The stock hydraulic JH cam is ok but gives away power at higher boost because of the valve overlap of NA. The g60 cam is a purposely built, cheap and readily available forced induction cam. if you have a solid lifter head, either stick it out with the stock cam at lower boost or buy an aftermarket turbo cam. Taking a hydro head from the junkyard and putting it in will be probably cheaper and requires no maintenance.

      - g60 headgasket; you shouldnt consider running without it.

      - Odds and ends; Boost gauge, supply and return oil lines: Don't bother paying outrageous prices for AN fittings. Your local hydraulic shop will have everything you need for about 25% of the price that the specialty retailers will sell you aluminium AN stuff for. New headbolts for sure, all required gaskets, exhaust studs, silicone couplers 2", steel or alu 2" J bends you will need probably 4 for the intake piping. whether you choose steel, alu or SS all depends on your fabricating skills and available tooling. 2" is really the upper limit for the intake piping as anything bigger will make the setup laggy. The only place where larger piping will slightly improve throttle resonse is between the cobra boot and turbo inlet. Bear in mind that there is little space so be careful; 2 1/4 to 2.5 in steel piping for downpipe and exhaust; once again, keep in mind that 2.5" is the largest practical size on a mk1 chassis without having it knock on the body and then again, you have to be right on when you do it orthewise the rattles will drive you crazy. Better stick with 2 1/4" depending on individual skill levels, it's more than enough at this stage

      - 2 psi pressure switch or hobbs switch, from the local electronics store. Needs to be close on rise or N.O. This will be used to throw the lambda system in open loop i.e fixed duty cycle when the boost kicks in and the boost sensitive wur will handle the enrichment from there upwards.

      The reason for this is that I have tried to fiddle around with the duty cycle as a way to enrich and it's just too slow to respond. If we take it out of the equation while the car is under boost, it will allow proper fueling and it will allow the car to cruise around at stoich when not under boost. Best of both worlds in cis I guess

      NICE to have (optional)

      Wideband for tuning even though the first time around I used to tune with spark plug, engine sound and thermocouples before the widebands were readily available and affordable. Still, if you don't feel confident tuning with traditional methods, buy the wideband, it is a good investment.

      New clutch, if you know that the clutch is recent, don't worry about it. The 8v clutch in good shape will hold the power that stage 1 makes. if you encounter problems with slippage, throw in a 16v pressure plate. Obviously, if your clutch is iffy now, turboing will destroy it in a matter of days.




      Stage 2 build:

      This setup yielded me 212 hp at around 20-21 psi boost. It is still streetable and driveable,

      All of the above plus:

      g60 block, g60 pistons, forged crank, volvo 240 turbo fuel distributor, custom passenger side mount i fabricated to fit the g60 in the mk1, external 38mm wastegate, mercedes brass cis injectors, 8v clutch disk and 16v pp, 1.8t lightweight hydraulic lifters, VW full windage tray with the integrated oil pan gasket, vw 2.0 16v oil pump. This is the pump that flows the most out of all the 4 cyl of that era.

      This build cost me around $2k including purchase of the g60 block and required machine work, bearings, gaskets seals, piston rings etc..

      I also de shrouded the valves a bit, polished the ports and did port matching and blending, just some mild headwork

      I used all stock hardware to put this engine back together because:

      -ARP is expensive stuff
      -The stock g60 can give 20 psi boost reliably with stock head bolts
      -The stock rod bolts are strong enough because I am not increasing the engine rpm limit greatly. Boost has no negative effect on rod bolts as the power stroke is on the descending motion and the rod bolts only bear a mild shearing load. What breaks stock rod bolts is the force of sudden deceleration of the piston and rod assembly at sustained, higher than normal engine speeds
      - My car is not a race cars; I have worked on race car and what I built is definetely not a race car. It is a street car with a modified engine within the limits of standard materials. ARP hardware is made for racing applications or extreme high performance builds. That's not really what we are doing here.

      I will do a separate write up on putting this together and the tuning part of it as well.

      Cheers
      Last edited by Montrocco; 12-23-2011 at 09:28 PM.

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      12-24-2011 09:48 AM #25
      outstanding!!!....


      this is fantastic.....an now its time to start sourcing parts.....

    26. Member waterwagon's Avatar
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      12-24-2011 06:33 PM #26
      ^ That looks like so much fun to build. I'm 5 years too late for it though; my local junk yard cleared out all the cars with those parts.

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      12-26-2011 11:15 AM #27
      Quote Originally Posted by waterwagon View Post
      ^ That looks like so much fun to build. I'm 5 years too late for it though; my local junk yard cleared out all the cars with those parts.
      Yeah, definitely getting to be hard to find some the stuff in the 'yard these days. Scrap prices have been up, so older stuff has been getting crushed.

      Quote Originally Posted by tolusina
      What the heck is going on with that intake air ducting? As you say, it's still going 20 years later, so it must work, but, WTF?
      Out of the CIS flapper back to the turbo. Turbo outlet actually comes forward to the intercooler (mounted next to the radiator) on the underside of the car, then into the ITB plenum from the IC. Tube from the plenum to the turbo inlet pipe is for the bypass valve.

      Don't rule out the older SAAB 900 WUR, fuel distributor, etc for possibilities to get everything running right. SAAB built turbo CIS injected cars from '78-84 before switching to the LH-Jetronic injection. Still along the lines of getting harder to find in the 'yard, but much the same stuff as the Volvos used. Even up to the early '90s SAAB used a T3 style turbo. Early ones were oil/air cooled Garrett T3 units, later ones were Mitsubishi built T3 sized with water cooled bearing sections. These also use an internal wastegate which makes the packaging nice.

      As for turbo (and modified non-turbo) manifolds cracking, be sure to use some sort of support bracket. That's a lot of weight hanging out there!

    28. Member iamdagerman's Avatar
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      12-28-2011 07:03 PM #28
      so how fast is it really?

    29. Member dubdaze68's Avatar
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      12-30-2011 02:14 PM #29
      Look at it this way....BAE and Callaway were turboing CIS VW's 30+ years ago. It's not new, it's no great shakes, and those old skool kits were un-intercooled and running primitive microfuelers.

      I know a way to control the CIS pump via a piggyback system to fire the fifth injector when needed as well.

      Some old skool goodness from 1979 and up:




      BAE/ARKAY


      And carbs+turbo=suck. Ask any Maserati Biturbo owner.

    30. Member s2kvondeutschland's Avatar
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      12-30-2011 02:47 PM #30
      I have that issue of Road & Track!
      "Zed's dead, baby, Zed's dead."

      RooflessVW

    31. Member oshwass1962's Avatar
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      12-30-2011 07:56 PM #31
      Quote Originally Posted by dubdaze68 View Post
      Look at it this way....BAE and Callaway were turboing CIS VW's 30+ years ago. It's not new, it's no great shakes, and those old skool kits were un-intercooled and running primitive microfuelers.

      I know a way to control the CIS pump via a piggyback system to fire the fifth injector when needed as well.

      Some old skool goodness from 1979 and up:




      BAE/ARKAY


      And carbs+turbo=suck. Ask any Maserati Biturbo owner.
      that 1 pic of all the parts, is that a whole turbo kit or parts salvaged everywhere

    32. 12-31-2011 07:51 PM #32
      Quote Originally Posted by dubdaze68 View Post
      Look at it this way....BAE and Callaway were turboing CIS VW's 30+ years ago. It's not new, it's no great shakes, and those old skool kits were un-intercooled and running primitive microfuelers.

      I know a way to control the CIS pump via a piggyback system to fire the fifth injector when needed as well.

      Some old skool goodness from 1979 and up:




      BAE/ARKAY


      And carbs+turbo=suck. Ask any Maserati Biturbo owner.
      I'm going to ask you only one question:

      What's the point of controlling the 5th injector with a piggyback electronic system that adds more complication to a system that is simple and reliable as it is when a boost sensitive WUR will do the job for $60?

    33. Member s2kvondeutschland's Avatar
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      01-01-2012 03:44 AM #33
      Quote Originally Posted by Montrocco View Post
      I'm going to ask you only one question:

      What's the point of controlling the 5th injector with a piggyback electronic system that adds more complication to a system that is simple and reliable as it is when a boost sensitive WUR will do the job for $60?
      Because the Callaway Turbo systems were pioneering add-on kits in the early 80's, not pick-and-match kits that we know work today. It probably took a little while before someone went, "hey, lets try one from a Volvo, that will work!" If you still have a Callaway kit, you run it like it was designed, because it's a cool piece of history.
      "Zed's dead, baby, Zed's dead."

      RooflessVW

    34. 01-04-2012 09:20 PM #34
      Quote Originally Posted by s2kvondeutschland View Post
      Because the Callaway Turbo systems were pioneering add-on kits in the early 80's, not pick-and-match kits that we know work today. It probably took a little while before someone went, "hey, lets try one from a Volvo, that will work!" If you still have a Callaway kit, you run it like it was designed, because it's a cool piece of history.
      I was asking about "your" way of doing this since everybody reading this thread is aware of the Callaway and others Microfueller.

      My opinion is that Callaway and others were designed as bolt-on kits and it is totally understandable why they would devise a piggyback system.

      There was enough knowledge of various CIS at the time that they would have known to use the volvo FD and WUR if they wanted to produce higher power levels that say stage 2 Callaway. You can take for example the Koenig TT kit for Ferrari 512BBi, AMG TT kit for 500 SEC, etc.. all CIS and no microfueller or other PIC setup. I believe that Callaway just chose this as the best compromise at the time for the VW kit.

      As well, where do you get off with telling us it's not new it's no great shakes? Is it perhaps you that thinks you're the only one who ever saw a picture of a Callaway kit?

      We are a bunch of ppl on here discussing how to turbo a car that was last produced with CIS in 1989 and how to turbo these cars with 1989 technology. And on a budget; this is what is great shakes.

      Buying a kit out of a box and bolting it on is not really an achievement in my opinion. Doing it yourself is unfortunately more complicated but gives your a better sense of accomplishement. I feel even better knowing that my build puts down more hp than any of those kits did in the day using the same technology.



      Anyways, if I had a Callaway or BAE or Janspeed kit in the first place, I wouldn't be writing this thread

      So essentially, all I can say about whatever it was you posted before is:

    35. Member s2kvondeutschland's Avatar
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      01-05-2012 05:14 AM #35
      Dude... what? Seriously?

      I didn't post the Callaway system, I merely commented on why it was so cool. And especially in the EARLY 80's.

      Last edited by s2kvondeutschland; 01-05-2012 at 07:57 AM.
      "Zed's dead, baby, Zed's dead."

      RooflessVW

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