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    Thread: turbo on a 87 cabbi with a CIS motor?????

    1. Member waterwagon's Avatar
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      12-24-2011 06:33 PM #26
      ^ That looks like so much fun to build. I'm 5 years too late for it though; my local junk yard cleared out all the cars with those parts.

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      12-26-2011 11:15 AM #27
      Quote Originally Posted by waterwagon View Post
      ^ That looks like so much fun to build. I'm 5 years too late for it though; my local junk yard cleared out all the cars with those parts.
      Yeah, definitely getting to be hard to find some the stuff in the 'yard these days. Scrap prices have been up, so older stuff has been getting crushed.

      Quote Originally Posted by tolusina
      What the heck is going on with that intake air ducting? As you say, it's still going 20 years later, so it must work, but, WTF?
      Out of the CIS flapper back to the turbo. Turbo outlet actually comes forward to the intercooler (mounted next to the radiator) on the underside of the car, then into the ITB plenum from the IC. Tube from the plenum to the turbo inlet pipe is for the bypass valve.

      Don't rule out the older SAAB 900 WUR, fuel distributor, etc for possibilities to get everything running right. SAAB built turbo CIS injected cars from '78-84 before switching to the LH-Jetronic injection. Still along the lines of getting harder to find in the 'yard, but much the same stuff as the Volvos used. Even up to the early '90s SAAB used a T3 style turbo. Early ones were oil/air cooled Garrett T3 units, later ones were Mitsubishi built T3 sized with water cooled bearing sections. These also use an internal wastegate which makes the packaging nice.

      As for turbo (and modified non-turbo) manifolds cracking, be sure to use some sort of support bracket. That's a lot of weight hanging out there!

    3. Member iamdagerman's Avatar
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      12-28-2011 07:03 PM #28
      so how fast is it really?

    4. Member dubdaze68's Avatar
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      12-30-2011 02:14 PM #29
      Look at it this way....BAE and Callaway were turboing CIS VW's 30+ years ago. It's not new, it's no great shakes, and those old skool kits were un-intercooled and running primitive microfuelers.

      I know a way to control the CIS pump via a piggyback system to fire the fifth injector when needed as well.

      Some old skool goodness from 1979 and up:




      BAE/ARKAY


      And carbs+turbo=suck. Ask any Maserati Biturbo owner.

    5. Member s2kvondeutschland's Avatar
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      12-30-2011 02:47 PM #30
      I have that issue of Road & Track!
      "Zed's dead, baby, Zed's dead."

    6. Member oshwass1962's Avatar
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      12-30-2011 07:56 PM #31
      Quote Originally Posted by dubdaze68 View Post
      Look at it this way....BAE and Callaway were turboing CIS VW's 30+ years ago. It's not new, it's no great shakes, and those old skool kits were un-intercooled and running primitive microfuelers.

      I know a way to control the CIS pump via a piggyback system to fire the fifth injector when needed as well.

      Some old skool goodness from 1979 and up:




      BAE/ARKAY


      And carbs+turbo=suck. Ask any Maserati Biturbo owner.
      that 1 pic of all the parts, is that a whole turbo kit or parts salvaged everywhere

    7. 12-31-2011 07:51 PM #32
      Quote Originally Posted by dubdaze68 View Post
      Look at it this way....BAE and Callaway were turboing CIS VW's 30+ years ago. It's not new, it's no great shakes, and those old skool kits were un-intercooled and running primitive microfuelers.

      I know a way to control the CIS pump via a piggyback system to fire the fifth injector when needed as well.

      Some old skool goodness from 1979 and up:




      BAE/ARKAY


      And carbs+turbo=suck. Ask any Maserati Biturbo owner.
      I'm going to ask you only one question:

      What's the point of controlling the 5th injector with a piggyback electronic system that adds more complication to a system that is simple and reliable as it is when a boost sensitive WUR will do the job for $60?

    8. Member s2kvondeutschland's Avatar
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      01-01-2012 03:44 AM #33
      Quote Originally Posted by Montrocco View Post
      I'm going to ask you only one question:

      What's the point of controlling the 5th injector with a piggyback electronic system that adds more complication to a system that is simple and reliable as it is when a boost sensitive WUR will do the job for $60?
      Because the Callaway Turbo systems were pioneering add-on kits in the early 80's, not pick-and-match kits that we know work today. It probably took a little while before someone went, "hey, lets try one from a Volvo, that will work!" If you still have a Callaway kit, you run it like it was designed, because it's a cool piece of history.
      "Zed's dead, baby, Zed's dead."

    9. 01-04-2012 09:20 PM #34
      Quote Originally Posted by s2kvondeutschland View Post
      Because the Callaway Turbo systems were pioneering add-on kits in the early 80's, not pick-and-match kits that we know work today. It probably took a little while before someone went, "hey, lets try one from a Volvo, that will work!" If you still have a Callaway kit, you run it like it was designed, because it's a cool piece of history.
      I was asking about "your" way of doing this since everybody reading this thread is aware of the Callaway and others Microfueller.

      My opinion is that Callaway and others were designed as bolt-on kits and it is totally understandable why they would devise a piggyback system.

      There was enough knowledge of various CIS at the time that they would have known to use the volvo FD and WUR if they wanted to produce higher power levels that say stage 2 Callaway. You can take for example the Koenig TT kit for Ferrari 512BBi, AMG TT kit for 500 SEC, etc.. all CIS and no microfueller or other PIC setup. I believe that Callaway just chose this as the best compromise at the time for the VW kit.

      As well, where do you get off with telling us it's not new it's no great shakes? Is it perhaps you that thinks you're the only one who ever saw a picture of a Callaway kit?

      We are a bunch of ppl on here discussing how to turbo a car that was last produced with CIS in 1989 and how to turbo these cars with 1989 technology. And on a budget; this is what is great shakes.

      Buying a kit out of a box and bolting it on is not really an achievement in my opinion. Doing it yourself is unfortunately more complicated but gives your a better sense of accomplishement. I feel even better knowing that my build puts down more hp than any of those kits did in the day using the same technology.



      Anyways, if I had a Callaway or BAE or Janspeed kit in the first place, I wouldn't be writing this thread

      So essentially, all I can say about whatever it was you posted before is:

    10. Member s2kvondeutschland's Avatar
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      01-05-2012 05:14 AM #35
      Dude... what? Seriously?

      I didn't post the Callaway system, I merely commented on why it was so cool. And especially in the EARLY 80's.

      Last edited by s2kvondeutschland; 01-05-2012 at 07:57 AM.
      "Zed's dead, baby, Zed's dead."

    11. 01-05-2012 09:49 AM #36
      [QUOTE=s2kvondeutschland;75223136]Dude... what? Seriously?

      I didn't post the Callaway system, I merely commented on why it was so cool. And especially in the EARLY 80's.


      Why are you then answering the question I asked the guy about the fifth injector and giving lectures on here about mixing and matching parts.

      This post was started because somebody wanted advice about CIS turbo, not a historical discussion of the callaway kits, There are many other posts about that so pls don't pollute this post, much appreciated

      As I plan on posting the tuning part soon and ppl appreaciate not having to sift though garbage and unrelated post when searching for info.

    12. Member s2kvondeutschland's Avatar
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      01-05-2012 10:02 AM #37
      Get over yourself man. This wasn't your thread to start with.

      "Zed's dead, baby, Zed's dead."

    13. Member CISinjected's Avatar
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      01-05-2012 11:23 AM #38
      .....anyway, lets not get this thing locked.

    14. Member dubdaze68's Avatar
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      01-05-2012 08:28 PM #39
      Quote Originally Posted by Montrocco View Post
      I was asking about "your" way of doing this since everybody reading this thread is aware of the Callaway and others Microfueller.

      My opinion is that Callaway and others were designed as bolt-on kits and it is totally understandable why they would devise a piggyback system.

      Buying a kit out of a box and bolting it on is not really an achievement in my opinion. Doing it yourself is unfortunately more complicated but gives your a better sense of accomplishement. I feel even better knowing that my build puts down more hp than any of those kits did in the day using the same technology.
      I'd still take an engineered to succeed Callaway kit over some of the hodge-podge disasters I've seen over the years. And this piggyback system I speak of isn't from then. It's new. Laptop programmable WUR and wideband capability so you don't grenade your motor. It's relatively inexpensive and waaaaaaaayyyy easier than upgrading the entire injection system. Whoops, I said easy. You wouldn't want that. Yes, the Rotomaster and RayJay turbos from back then weren't the best ever. They can be upgraded when rebuilt, which is nice. I just hate when people get salty because they've built something, and call out people who "bolt on" things, when this is actually pretty saavy mechanical work. Don't put people down because they didn't have to visit 30 junkyards to salvage crap from broken, waterlogged cars.

    15. 01-06-2012 12:14 PM #40
      Quote Originally Posted by dubdaze68 View Post
      I'd still take an engineered to succeed Callaway kit over some of the hodge-podge disasters I've seen over the years. And this piggyback system I speak of isn't from then. It's new. Laptop programmable WUR and wideband capability so you don't grenade your motor. It's relatively inexpensive and waaaaaaaayyyy easier than upgrading the entire injection system. Whoops, I said easy. You wouldn't want that. Yes, the Rotomaster and RayJay turbos from back then weren't the best ever. They can be upgraded when rebuilt, which is nice. I just hate when people get salty because they've built something, and call out people who "bolt on" things, when this is actually pretty saavy mechanical work. Don't put people down because they didn't have to visit 30 junkyards to salvage crap from broken, waterlogged cars.
      Dude,

      Now I'm confused, what is the system you have? Is it something to control a 5th injector or is it a programmable WUR like UTCIS?

      Could you please tell us so that we have to stop guessing?

      Did you try this yourself or is it speculation? Are you or someone else selling those if yes how much?

      It would be great to have more precise, custom fuel maps with CIS if it's relatively affordable

      Cheers

    16. 01-06-2012 12:37 PM #41
      Quote Originally Posted by s2kvondeutschland View Post
      Get over yourself man. This wasn't your thread to start with.

      I really appreciate your input however, the pictures and/or diagrams you have posted so far strangely seem to be irrelevant and lacking any technical information?

      What the subject of the post again? Was it Turbo on a 87 CIS cabby?, or the sit in basement and look for hours to find g*y a** pictures to post on the Turbo on a 87 CIS cabby? post


    17. Member s2kvondeutschland's Avatar
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      01-06-2012 01:33 PM #42
      ^They see me trollin'^

      Quote Originally Posted by dubdaze68 View Post
      I'd still take an engineered to succeed Callaway kit over some of the hodge-podge disasters I've seen over the years. And this piggyback system I speak of isn't from then. It's new. Laptop programmable WUR and wideband capability so you don't grenade your motor. It's relatively inexpensive and waaaaaaaayyyy easier than upgrading the entire injection system. Whoops, I said easy. You wouldn't want that. Yes, the Rotomaster and RayJay turbos from back then weren't the best ever. They can be upgraded when rebuilt, which is nice. I just hate when people get salty because they've built something, and call out people who "bolt on" things, when this is actually pretty saavy mechanical work. Don't put people down because they didn't have to visit 30 junkyards to salvage crap from broken, waterlogged cars.
      I'm in for info too. I'd like to put the DX from my cabby into a Jetta. Definitely with a little FI.
      "Zed's dead, baby, Zed's dead."

    18. Member dubdaze68's Avatar
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      01-08-2012 12:36 PM #43
      Quote Originally Posted by Montrocco View Post
      Dude,

      Now I'm confused, what is the system you have? Is it something to control a 5th injector or is it a programmable WUR like UTCIS?
      Bingo. And I have yet to use it on a VW, the only experience I've had with it so far was a 964 Turbo. It was a grey market car, and the ONLY thing that my friend could find to make it run correctly. Maps seemed pretty simple, the support pretty strong. And yes, due to class regulations, this was all he could fit.

    19. 01-11-2012 09:18 PM #44
      Quote Originally Posted by dubdaze68 View Post
      Bingo. And I have yet to use it on a VW, the only experience I've had with it so far was a 964 Turbo. It was a grey market car, and the ONLY thing that my friend could find to make it run correctly. Maps seemed pretty simple, the support pretty strong. And yes, due to class regulations, this was all he could fit.
      Then go see Pelican parts forum, there is a guy from Belgium there I think that is running this on his 930. I think he's had it for like 3-4 years and has done a bunch of maps and different tweaking and stuff.

      The only issue I have with UTCIS-V is the price, last I checked, it was something like $699. That's what all my turbo setup cost me.

      Sounds like a great product from what I read on the Porsche forums but just a little too rich for me

    20. Member
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      01-14-2012 09:39 AM #45
      Quote Originally Posted by Montrocco View Post
      Then go see Pelican parts forum, there is a guy from Belgium there I think that is running this on his 930. I think he's had it for like 3-4 years and has done a bunch of maps and different tweaking and stuff.

      The only issue I have with UTCIS-V is the price, last I checked, it was something like $699. That's what all my turbo setup cost me.

      Sounds like a great product from what I read on the Porsche forums but just a little too rich for me
      This. Might as well just go and build a standalone setup for that kind of money. I have no doubts that a MS setup can be put together for less than that and gives you a much cleaner, and far superior system.

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      01-30-2012 03:03 AM #46
      wow......this is one strange how-to/info thread......


      and as far as i thought THIS WAS about sourcing parts and building the most efficient and inexpensive turbo setup.


      and if done right, which is possible and is far more rewarding than buying some kit, nostalgic or not.......ive done a turbo build on a non turbo car with sourced parts, and i had a great time doing it, a better time driving it, and a hell of a lot more pride in what i'd done....


      with that said.....i think we need a car list to find parts from, turbos, cis distributors, piping, intakes......ect....the search if half the fun....

    22. Member Colombian Gringo's Avatar
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      01-30-2012 09:10 AM #47
      Quote Originally Posted by Montrocco View Post
      The car dynoed 212 hp at the wheels, pulled 12.8 at 105 mph on street tires w/ agh 020 tranny.

    23. 05-03-2012 12:46 AM #48
      Quote Originally Posted by mileycyrus View Post
      wow......this is one strange how-to/info thread......


      and as far as i thought THIS WAS about sourcing parts and building the most efficient and inexpensive turbo setup.


      and if done right, which is possible and is far more rewarding than buying some kit, nostalgic or not.......ive done a turbo build on a non turbo car with sourced parts, and i had a great time doing it, a better time driving it, and a hell of a lot more pride in what i'd done....


      with that said.....i think we need a car list to find parts from, turbos, cis distributors, piping, intakes......ect....the search if half the fun....
      Agreed! Let's see a list!


      ---
      I am here: http://tapatalk.com/map.php?hrjvn1

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      10-02-2012 10:36 AM #49
      bump....

      as i think i may have found a cheap turbo/mani combo to start this project......

      i havent installed my header yet, been trying to decide weather or not to go turbo, and if i can get this turbo stuff.....that makes up my mind......

      id only need a few other things to do this after that....
      dizzy
      piping
      gauges
      vacuum/oil lines
      oil return bung welded.....ect...

    25. Member flowmastergfunk's Avatar
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      10-02-2012 11:27 AM #50
      I love reading about turboing these cars. CIS is the shizznit and I think it would be an amazing system to have with a turbo setup. I love the lack of serious electronics and computers and BS. There is a simplicity to it that follows just a few steps behind diesel to me. Love love love. If it weren't for my current dual downpipe setup and JH/ABA plans, I would have started working on a turbo setup from the start.

      I have most of the fueling parts saved up but I would have to wait until I have the appropriate fuel pressure tools for a precise tune and I would love to hold off until I can fab my own manifold. I just keep studying until I get a good welding setup or my N/A ABA starts to feel slow

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