16v aba swap help!

[mr sarcastic]

I'll have an update for you tomorrow regarding the intermediate shaft and ignition distributor setup. I think I'll be able to make the 1.7lt stuff work, with the aba shaft. I'm crossing my fingers. Almost everything else from the 1.7lt bolts up to the aba block and v8 head. I figured nothing would line up on the head (coolant flanges and such), but everything does. Pretty amazing to me.....

[mr sarcastic]

I was gonna pull the gear off the end of the aba intermediate shaft, and press on the one from the 1.7. That way I'd keep all the gearing correct, but this csnt happen because the end of the shafts are a different diameter.... So, I began to take a closer look at where the 1.7 shaft hits the crank. It hits on that lobe that must have been for something that was scraped, cause it does nothing. I assume this is a balanced unit, so grinding off the spot that hits is gonna be sketchy. But, it looks like minimal wieght has to be taken off so I'm gonna grind it just enough to clear the crank as it passes by. I was thinking that I might be able to time it so the lobe and the crank would be out of time, but they're not one to one, eventually they meet up.

As for the distributor, it mates up with the aba oil pump fine. Lines up with the intermediate shaft gear fine, the only problem is the housing is too small. It fits into the bore in the block instead of on top. I'm having a fitted ring made to fit over the housing. It'll be a few days, I'll take pics when it's done and set up. Ordered the 9a rod bushings today so I can run the 9a pistons on the aba rods. $100 for the set, wtf.

[WaterWheels]

It hits on that lobe that must have been for something that was scraped, cause it does nothing. I assume this is a balanced unit . . . Lines up with the intermediate shaft gear fine, the only problem is the housing is too small. It fits into the bore in the block instead of on top. I'm having a fitted ring made to fit over the housing.

That lobe is for the mechanical fuel pumps used in some models. In later years, when fuel injection cam into being, kind of, that lobe was deleted slowly. It would be much easier to just get you a shaft from an engine that did not have the lobe, or buy a balanced one which had it removed. The problem I had always heard was the rod comming much too close to to gear on the shaft itself. The fix was to grind off 5mm from the inside of the gear to allow the rod to swing past without any problems. Sometimes it did not hit during fitting but later as the car moverd around so did the crank a little at then did touch. Be real sure of the gear to rod clearance before closing up the engine.

There are rings sold already for installing the older ignition distributors in the newer 2.0L blocks. If you already have a contract to have one made, too late. There is a complete kit sold also with the ring and a larger gear to put on the old distributor shaft so it mates with the original 2.0L shaft, again maybe too late.

[mr sarcastic]

Woa, you wouldn't happen to have a link to that kit would you?

[mr sarcastic]

Found it, i'll link it here for future reference.
tt conversion kit

Looks like the gear is the oem one off a aba distributor. I'm gonna reach out to my friends and see if any of them have an extra distributor hanging around that I can take it from. I'll also need the intermediate gear if i'm gonna change the gearing at the distributor. the ring/bushing I'm having made is a free-be from my father in law. We'll see how it comes out, but i know it won't have the o ring. probably gonna grab this one anyway.....

[mr sarcastic]

looks like i'm gonna need this too.....
along with an aeb oil filter housing. ****s starting to add up!

[WaterWheels]

looks like i'm gonna need this too.....
along with an aeb oil filter housing. ****s starting to add up!

Na, you said you have a KR head. I can't remember if the PL heads have this mounting point drilled and threaded, but on a KR there is a mounting point for the WUR on the transmission side of the head. That is where the WUR is mounted from the factory, right next to the sensors and coolant flange. For the crankcase venting I have used an Audi part which is a rubber reduction boot that fits on the large nipple of the factory seperator and then ran a smaller tube. Sometimes to a seperator and to vent, sometimes to a catch can either vented or back to the engine. I could maybe find the part number if you want to try and find one.

Why an AEB filter housing?

[mr sarcastic]

well, not sure if its a KR head or not, its off an audi v8q. it does have the spot your talking about though on the transmission side, but i'm gonna use that spot for the coolant flange from the 1.7. it'll keep all my coolant hoses exactly where they were, just easier that way.

DSCN0128 by phillipcdube, on Flickr

DSCN0129 by phillipcdube, on Flickr
as for the oil filter housing, the aba has an extra oil port and the shape is slightly different at the top. i cant use the oem aba housing cause it points the oil filter straight down, and on longitudinal cars the engine mount is right there. it needs to be pointed down and towards the fire wall a bit. the aeb unit is the only one with the extra port, and shape that i need. found one in the classifieds for $35 shipped.

DSCN0126 by phillipcdube, on Flickr

since i had the camera out, i took a couple other pics. i'm gonna wait till there's a couple days of above freezing temps, push this thing out into the driveway and clean/hose the bay.

DSCN0130 by phillipcdube, on Flickr
the mess on my bench....

DSCN0132 by phillipcdube, on Flickr
and test fitting the accessories and other crap. gonna pull them off and paint the mounts and other stuff. i'm gonna try and make this a clean swap, but not go too crazy.

DSCN0131 by phillipcdube, on Flickr
DSCN0125 by phillipcdube, on Flickr

[mr sarcastic]

thinking about getting this. bad idea?

[WaterWheels]

thinking about getting this. bad idea?

Can't really say. I do know it has a manifold pressure enrichment but just how much, I'm sure not too much, I don't know. The second port is something I can't comment about as I don't know the cars, Volvo, it came from. Could be altitude compensation or could be a lean down function, but it could be blocked off or left free if need be. I would not rush things as the engine will run fine with any 8v unit until you get one you are sure is correct. You will just not have the same top end or have to keep your foot off a little.

Understand about the filter mount. Audies also have them canted and I just forgot the engine position you are working with.

About the cylinder head. Is there a reason you want to use half an 8 cylinder head? I have heard/read that they can work, but from looking at it I think you have a lot of "jerry rigging" before you. Things would be so much more straight forward with a PL or 9A or KR head and they can't be all that much used.

After thought: That head does not have the pad for mounting the WUR.

[mr sarcastic]

About that wur...... I just came across an Audi 10vt unit for $50, so I bought it. Figure if I don't need it, or can't use it I'll be able to sell it and make my money back.

As for the head, I already have it and I've been thinking about doing the swap for a while. It's a little more work, but putting any 16v head in a longitudinal setup in gonna take some jury rigging. I've got a pretty rare/unique car, I think it's fitting to have a unique swap. I guess it's a little "form over function" and "cause I can".

[mr sarcastic]

did a bunch of cleaning in the last few days. kinda tedious, but necessary. fedex dropped off the wur. it was advertised as a wur for an audi 5000 10v turbo, but it doesnt have any vacuum port. its got a vent on the top, but no vacuum port. i searched the part number (034 133403a) and found its for a non turbo 5000 10v......

[mr sarcastic]

so progress has been slow for the last couple months. we finally got some snow out here so i've taken up a new hobby, snowboarding. also, i had to wait a little on other people doing some of the work, as i dont have the facilities to weld aluminum or resurface a head. but now its all back, and ready for assembly. probably gonna assemble the head tomorrow. got some pics cause everyone loves pictures.
did a slight port job on the intake runners, nothing major, just a gasket match.
old

DSCN0156 by phillipcdube, on Flickr
new, didnt want to go too crazy and get into the water jacket.

DSCN0157 by phillipcdube, on Flickr
had the head resurfaced.

DSCN0158 by phillipcdube, on Flickr
filled the circular holes with a piece of 1/2" aluminum rod. threaded to 3/8's pipe thread. i didnt want to weld much on the head, and i didnt want to use a brass or even steel plug because of expansion rate difference's. so i needed to make my own plugs. sealed the threads with permatex.

DSCN0159 by phillipcdube, on Flickr
one spot needed to be welded cause it was oval shaped.

DSCN0160 by phillipcdube, on Flickr
fit the 9a pistons to the aba rods. new rings and crank bearings too.

DSCN0161 by phillipcdube, on Flickr
now, this is my "new" audi 10v WUR. as you can see its larger.

DSCN0163 by phillipcdube, on Flickr
its got a cover on this nipple, how do i know if this is for vacuum or vent?

DSCN0164 by phillipcdube, on Flickr
part number 0 438 14u 157

DSCN0165 by phillipcdube, on Flickr

[PKstrategy]

nice

not knowing about this from personal experience, but I'm assuming vacuum should be kept once the motor warms up.

[anlxn]

[. phillipcdube, on Flickr[/QUOTE]
there should be a line nipple on the side of the base that is where the Vac/Boost gots hooked up to

[mr sarcastic]

Little update..... Engine is in! Still have $100 worth of odds and ends to buy, but I'm on the home stretch. I decided to go with the head mounted distributor from a Saab 900. The CIS block mounted unit is extra tall and just wasn't happening. Also. I'm gonna have to "modify" my hood to let close....... Having the engine in is a huge motivator, it's just tough to find the time to work on it with a newborn around.

[ellocolindo]

great to see a PT head on a vw block into a vw carat....

i have the same head awaiting transplamt onto a 9a block for a 91 passat on cis basic turbo. i have been collecting parts for 4 years now...
this has motivated me again to start piecing the engine together this summer.
thanks for the push in the right direction....
keep it up...

[mr sarcastic]

Should be running in the next couple weeks. Just waiting on some last minute parts and tweaks!

[91B3DUB]

yeah this is pretty sweet! im curious tosee it run when finished!

[mr sarcastic]

i'm pretty excited and terrified to turn the key. i'm 99% there, waiting on some fuel lines from a friend cause the quantum ones werent long enough to reach over the valve cover. i'm also gonna wait till i have a wideband before i run it. got to modify the header slightly, build a down pipe, and it'll be ready. having a 2 month old at home has definitely slowed me down, but it needs to be on the road for july!

[mr sarcastic]

It runs! Super lean, and won't hold an idle. At 2k it hovers around 16-17, max's the wideband out as you rev it. I have to modify the saab distributor to let it retard timing more, it bottomed out before it got to where it wanted. Once I get the timing down I'll mess with fueling.

[mr sarcastic]

[anlxn]

thats great I would like to hear how drivability and performance is in that combo

[mr sarcastic]

Just as a recap for those who don't want to sort through the thread:
It's an aba bottom end, 9a pistons. The head is a 16v head off of an Audi 3.6 v8, head gasket is aba with the spacer removed, gasket matched the intake ports. 264 kent cams with the Audi v8 header, no cat, 2.25" exhaust back to the borla muffled. 16v throttle body, Saab head mounted vacuum advancing distributor, Mercedes 190e injectors, audi 10v wur (non turbo), stock CIS-L. I'm using the Wideband purely for monitoring the a/f ratio, other then using the analog output to the the regular o2 sensor.
I think my issue in tuning is gonna be the wur. If I can't dial this one in, or the stock 1.7 wur, I'm gonna take a stab at making one adjustable. If that doesn't pan out, I'll spend the money on a kr or 10vt unit. Anyone got any info on my fuel pump relay? I hear the rev limiter is built into it, so I won't be able to rev past 6300 using the stock relay?

[waterwagon]

Nice work!

TT use to sell a fuel pump relay with the rev limiter removed. I bought one back in '98 for my Fox. I also remember something about an 8v GTI/GLI with CIS having a higher limit.

[mr sarcastic]

Thanks dude, I appreciate all the insight you've given me so far!

[waterwagon]

I like this build for the using the stuff you already have to build something diffrent than the average VW swap. I'm all for it and if the small amount of information I have retained over the years; I'm happy to share when it comes to things like this.

I think you have me confused with WATERWHEELS; he is the one with all the insight so far.

[mr sarcastic]

Haha, your right. Didn't even realize there was difference in screen names....

[ellocolindo]

i have also read threads on what relays have the limitter off and what not. if you search on vortex you will find it.

i have a few volvo wur regulators if you need some later on. i also have a pdf file on wur part #'s and specs for them....

[mr sarcastic]

Oh man, i'd love to get ahold of that PDF. Could you email it to me? I'll PM you my email....

[mr sarcastic]

Started to tune it tonight. Got the spark timing correct, and got my a/f ratio down to 11 at idle, but it still soars above 19-20 when revving. Took it for a spin down the road, felt nice in the lower rpm's.

[mr sarcastic]

Picked up a wur with a vac line input, Bosch number 0438140086, vag number 035133403D. The yard I found it at said it was from a scirocco, but under the part someone sharpied it "84 gt". either way, it'll take vacuum so I'm gonna give it a shot.

[mr sarcastic]

So my wur is working in reverse of what I want. I used a vac pump, and at idle it would drop the a/r a full 2, almost 3 parts when 20" of vacuum was applied. Arnt these supposed to work the opposite? Lean with vacuum, richen up as the vacuum disappears?

[anlxn]

So my wur is working in reverse of what I want. I used a vac pump, and at idle it would drop the a/r a full 2, almost 3 parts when 20" of vacuum was applied. Arnt these supposed to work the opposite? Lean with vacuum, richen up as the vacuum disappears?

put the vacume on the outer nipple .....these WUR (control pressure regulator) were ment for atmospheric adjustment/boost ...but what the heck give it a wirl just put it on the big nipple

[WaterWheels]

I used a vac pump, and at idle it would drop the a/r a full 2, almost 3 parts when 20" of vacuum was applied. Arnt these supposed to work the opposite? Lean with vacuum, richen up as the vacuum disappears?

I don't understand "2, almost 3 parts", parts of what? I do gather that when vacuum is applied the it is causing things to get richer and when vacuum lowers it leans out. If that is what you are saying then it is working correctly. No intention to embarrass you in any way but an engine makes high vacuum (low manifold pressure) at idle and low vacuum (high manifold pressure) at WOT. So that is what you want, tuned correctly at idle and as the vacuum drops during throttle opening the mixture richens. Install a vacuum gauge and play with the throttle and you will see what I mean.

I also don't really understand what the prior response means either with ". . . were ment for atmospheric adjustment/boost ..."? The regulator was a Porsche 928 unit according to the Bosch number (maybe other cars too) and being from a high end model I'm sure it has altitude compensation. I would assume that is the reason for the thick port on the side by the vacuum hose nipple. If that is what was ment by atmospheric adjustment then yes it is very likely. I would also put a vent cap like the one on the top on that poet to keep crud out.