50% of the American population — poor or low income

[Chilledman]

We're supposed to feel bad for these idiots?

Yes your heart is supposed to bleed for the stupidty of the people posting in this thread that beilve its always someone elses fualt people live the lives that they do .....

[mad8vskillz]

a couple comments on that list. Note, I'm not saying things aren't bad, just that some of these stats don't mean anything other than shock-value


#2 Approximately 57 percent of all children in the United States are living in homes that are either considered to be "low income" or impoverished.
low income families tend to have more kids, so that stat by itself isn't really indicative of anything

#4 The average amount of time that a worker stays unemployed in the United States is now over 40 weeks.
is that because of them milking the system, or a real lack of something to do? I'm just questioning the stat here


#5 One recent survey found that 77 percent of all U.S. small businesses do not plan to hire any more workers.
once again, a fairly meaningless stat. There are plenty of businesses that wouldn't need additional people even if times were good


#9 A Gallup poll from earlier this year found that approximately one out of every five Americans that do have a job consider themselves to be underemployed.
"consider themselves" is not a meaningful metric. I'd like to have 40 hours a week of overtime, do I count in that?

#12 Back in 1969, 95 percent of all men between the ages of 25 and 54 had a job. In July, only 81.2 percent of men in that age group had a job.
I'm sure the numbers are inverse for women. More women working, less work for men.


#16 As the economy has slowed down, so has the number of marriages. According to a Pew Research Center analysis, only 51 percent of all Americans that are at least 18 years old are currently married. Back in 1960, 72 percent of all U.S. adults were married.
this is a social trend a lot more than an economic one


#18 In Stockton, California home prices have declined 64 percent from where they were at when the housing market peaked.
and in Centralia, Pennsylvania they staid the exact same. What is the point of THIS stat?


#21 According to the U.S. Census Bureau, 18 percent of all homes in the state of Florida are sitting vacant. That figure is 63 percent larger than it was just ten years ago.
context/definition for vacant? like "owners live in Maine and come down every few months" or just totaly empty vacant? (did not read the article)


#27 If you can believe it, one out of every seven Americans has at least 10 credit cards.
Whoopdy doo? what are the balances/limits on them? I have 7 all with 0 balances on them. 3 are business-related.

#30 The retirement crisis in the United States just continues to get worse. According to the Employee Benefit Research Institute, 46 percent of all American workers have less than $10,000 saved for retirement, and 29 percent of all American workers have less than $1,000 saved for retirement.
do 18 y/o workers count in this? What about 15 y/o? Because kid-jobs aren't used for retirement savings like ever


#35 According to an analysis of Census Bureau data done by the Pew Research Center, the median net worth for households led by someone 65 years of age or older is 47 times greater than the median net worth for households led by someone under the age of 35.
people back in the day knew how to manage their money?


#36 If you can believe it, 37 percent of all U.S. households that are led by someone under the age of 35 have a net worth of zero or less than zero.
how many have 60" tvs? This is possibly indicative of spending habits not just income.

#39 Since 2007, the number of children living in poverty in the state of California has increased by 30 percent.
how many were kids added to families that were living in poverty in 2007?

#40 Sadly, child poverty is absolutely exploding all over America. According to the National Center for Children in Poverty, 36.4% of all children that live in Philadelphia are living in poverty, 40.1% of all children that live in Atlanta are living in poverty, 52.6% of all children that live in Cleveland are living in poverty and 53.6% of all children that live in Detroit are living in poverty.
once again, OMG TEH CHILDRENZ stats. How many moved down from above poverty and how many were "born due to poor planning by their (poverty-stricken) parents"?


#41 Today, one out of every seven Americans is on food stamps and one out of every four American children is on food stamps.
see above

#48 If the federal government began right at this moment to repay the U.S. national debt at a rate of one dollar per second, it would take over 440,000 years to pay off the national debt.
great. how about not measuring things in football fields per fortnight, but instead saying what it would take at realistic spending levels and/or timespans?

[mad8vskillz]

#23 As I have written about previously, 19 percent of all American men between the ages of 25 and 34 are now living with their parents.

19% of all American men play World of Warcraft and/or attend ICP concerts




(actually this one is probably the most indicative of "things ain't right" since dudes that age want to GTFO more than anything)

[pentaxshooter]

These "statistics" make me chuckle.

[GeoffD]

yeah, he probably is, but he's a lot closer to the bottom 90% than the top 1%

I presume Chilledman is counting his wife's income.

Top 1%: $380,354

Top 5%: $159,619

Top 10%: $113,799

Top 25%: $67,280

Top 50%: >$33,048

The problem I have with using IRS data to define poverty and low income is that the numbers aren't regionally adjusted. $33K spends far differently in New York City than it does in Alabama.

The middle class is usually defined as $35K to $75K. It's remarkable that half the country doesn't make enough to qualify as middle class. If the trend continues, it doesn't bode well for a stable democracy in the United States.

[Jader Pack]

But hey there the evil ones

As someone who is currently top 25% and plans to reach top 5-10%, I disagree with your general sentiment as well as reject your strawman. The OP did not say the top X% are evil; rather, the implication is that the system is not functioning correctly. If the vast majority of people are struggling, I would agree with that sentiment.

I also reject your convenient way of closing your mind to the problem: I highly doubt that everyone is as lazy and stupid as you claim. The majority want to work but cannot find any. I also reject the idea that everyone can get rich with hard work.

An economic system should benefit almost everyone who is willing to work. Ours does to a far better degree than in many other countries, but the vast and growing gap between wealthy and poor indicates that the majority of the people are not benefiting from the majority of the wealth in our countries. Why should this be?

[O_G]

Ours did to a far better degree than in other developed countries...

My edit, particularly given the first two graphics I posted.

The wheels fell off some time ago. It's just that people have been suckered into not seeing it. The schemers are clever, I'll give them that. Even now, the public is still utterly mystified by such unicorns as "small businesses" and what those unicorns are used to do to them and their kids on a daily, and nightly, basis. The level of naivete and delusion is mind-boggling.

We run the risk, by laying out the pros and cons of a particular argument, of inducing people to join in on the debate, and in this regard it is possible to lose control of a process that only we fully understand.

[Jader Pack]

My edit, particularly given the first two graphics I posted.

The wheels fell off some time ago.

I disagree. A large percentage of the world's population lives without many of the luxuries that even poor people here consider a necessity. Running water (or even clean water), electricity, heat when it's cold, a room for each person, TV, Internet, phone, three meals a day... all while the elite in many of those countries live like kings.

We live in a very lucky part of the world. Still, there's nothing wrong with wanting to improve on that.

I can't see any reason why wealth should be as concentrated as it is here. I'm ok with the market rewarding highly-desired people lavishly, but the degree it's reached these days is ridiculous. What's the point in living in a rich society if you can't participate in the wealth?

[seymore15074]

such a joke .

I cant imagine why half the population is broke , its mostly full with idiots that dont want to work, cant manage there money. Or that happy with a job that is just a place to keep there time filled with .

Its not that hard to get into the top 10% , all it takes is some hard work ( OMG I know) and some drive.

Well that and not spending the majority of your time goofing off on FB or other websites and actually working while at work.

Its the people who acutally work , who invented something , who acutally do something who make it to the top 1% - or the kids who got lucky and born into .

But hey there the evil ones

o rly?

[seymore15074]

Yes your heart is supposed to bleed for the stupidty of the people posting in this thread that beilve its always someone elses fualt people live the lives that they do .....

I must have missed that post. All I'm seeing are BS claims and a few users that disagree with your misplaced generalizations. I thought there already was a rant thread for this...

[seymore15074]

I presume Chilledman is counting his wife's income.

Top 1%: $380,354

Top 5%: $159,619

Top 10%: $113,799

Top 25%: $67,280

Top 50%: >$33,048

The problem I have with using IRS data to define poverty and low income is that the numbers aren't regionally adjusted. $33K spends far differently in New York City than it does in Alabama.

The middle class is usually defined as $35K to $75K. It's remarkable that half the country doesn't make enough to qualify as middle class. If the trend continues, it doesn't bode well for a stable democracy in the United States.

These numbers make me feel better about my self--are they accurate? Can I get a citation?

[winstonsmith84]

$33K spends far differently in New York City than it does in Alabama.

.

There are some pretty nice places to be broke in America.

[Chilledman]

I presume Chilledman is counting his wife's income.

Top 1%: $380,354

Top 5%: $159,619

Top 10%: $113,799

Top 25%: $67,280

Top 50%: >$33,048

The problem I have with using IRS data to define poverty and low income is that the numbers aren't regionally adjusted. $33K spends far differently in New York City than it does in Alabama.

The middle class is usually defined as $35K to $75K. It's remarkable that half the country doesn't make enough to qualify as middle class. If the trend continues, it doesn't bode well for a stable democracy in the United States.

Correct ! But both of ours by ourselves are in the top 25%.
Shoot my base pay with out any commision is above the top 50%

[mad8vskillz]

I presume Chilledman is counting his wife's income.

Top 1%: $380,354

Top 5%: $159,619

Top 10%: $113,799

Top 25%: $67,280

Top 50%: >$33,048

The problem I have with using IRS data to define poverty and low income is that the numbers aren't regionally adjusted. $33K spends far differently in New York City than it does in Alabama.

The middle class is usually defined as $35K to $75K. It's remarkable that half the country doesn't make enough to qualify as middle class. If the trend continues, it doesn't bode well for a stable democracy in the United States.

are those per person or per family?

[Chilledman]

As someone who is currently top 25% and plans to reach top 5-10%, I disagree with your general sentiment as well as reject your strawman. The OP did not say the top X% are evil; rather, the implication is that the system is not functioning correctly. If the vast majority of people are struggling, I would agree with that sentiment.

I also reject your convenient way of closing your mind to the problem: I highly doubt that everyone is as lazy and stupid as you claim. The majority want to work but cannot find any. I also reject the idea that everyone can get rich with hard work.

An economic system should benefit almost everyone who is willing to work. Ours does to a far better degree than in many other countries, but the vast and growing gap between wealthy and poor indicates that the majority of the people are not benefiting from the majority of the wealth in our countries. Why should this be?

Do I agree the system is a bit misfunctioning , sure , but is it broken , NO .
Why do you reject the idea that everyone can get rich with hard work ? ( excluding those that are not mental or physicaly capable of it )

Close my mind LOL I see more different people on a day to day basis then the next 10 posters here to base my claims on ..... I see very few people with any sort of movitation to move up at all , or at least to work that little bit more to make there lives better. Most view there jobs as a space to occupy there lifes with till the weekend when they can spend it doing something pointless as argueing with people on the interent ....

And its the simple things of doing ....

Putting a full 8hrs of work in.
Eating Correctly
Exercising

Just imagine if the intept 50% acutally did those to the fullest extent ... imagine what we used to get done .... now all I see is fat people everywhere sitting down , surfing the interent .

You should of seen the obease mutants at the hockey game I went to last night , I thought I was going to be eaten alive by some of them

[Chilledman]

are those per person or per family?

Per household / Family

[Chilledman]

Seriously HOW DUMB AND LAZY DO YOU HAVE TO BE NOT TO MAKE $15hr ....

Thats $31,200 just in pay excluding benfitis and such . I was making 18hr in the field 8+ years ago.

[mad8vskillz]

Per household / Family

so if I'm single, living by myself, i can bump up where I am in this thing a few percent? or does me having 0 responsibility not raise my bracket? Either way, i'm a c-hair off being top 10.

[Jader Pack]

Do I agree the system is a bit misfunctioning , sure , but is it broken , NO .
Why do you reject the idea that everyone can get rich with hard work ? ( excluding those that are not mental or physicaly capable of it )

Close my mind LOL I see more different people on a day to day basis then the next 10 posters here to base my claims on ..... I see very few people with any sort of movitation to move up at all , or at least to work that little bit more to make there lives better. And its the simple things of ....

Putting a full 8hrs of work in.
Eating Correctly
Exercising

Just imagine if the intept 50% acutally did those to the fullest extent ... imagine what we used to get done .... now all I see is fat people everywhere sitting down , surfing the interent .

Never said it was broken. Like I say, things here are better than most places in the world. That's no reason not to improve it; since when has "good enough," been good enough?

I get the feeling you're seeing what you want to see or believe you'll see. I don't get that impression from people at all. The lazy, scam-the-system, never work at all types exist, but I feel they're a tiny minority. Most people want to participate in society, find a job they can do and do it well. Those people certainly aren't the cream of the crop who lead, take risks, and push society upwards (and who , when successful, deserve to be rich), but they still deserve a fair proportion of the wealth that the society they participate in generates. These days, I don't think they're getting that.

[Chilledman]

so if I'm single, living by myself, i can bump up where I am in this thing a few percent? or does me having 0 responsibility not raise my bracket? Either way, i'm a c-hair off being top 10.

Dont matter to me but for being able to be there by doing it yourself !

- Why dont you give us an idea of what you do and did to show what it takes to be there.

[mad8vskillz]

Seriously HOW DUMB AND LAZY DO YOU HAVE TO BE NOT TO MAKE $15hr ....

Thats $31,200 just in pay excluding benfitis and such . I was making 18hr in the field 8+ years ago.

no dude, if that's per family, that's 2 incomes!!! so 2 minimum wage jobs
that's kinda f__ked actually

[mad8vskillz]

Dont matter to me but for being able to be there by doing it yourself !

- Why dont you give us an idea of what you do and did to show what it takes to be there.

go to college, major in computer science
flip jobs every year or so. (web/database developer using microsoft tech) for 3 years
be a consultant for a couple years. flip jobs every 1-3 months. for 2 years
get asked (begged?) to stay full-time at a client

yes, i drove 250,000 miles in the last 5 years. yes it's a lot of interviewing. yes I did have to bust my ass (sometimes), and yes I was treated like "the guy they brought in to eliminate our jobs" half the time.

surprisingly, the whole offshoring thing HELPED me a lot. I had quite a few contracts un-f__king messes the indian software companies created.

[Chilledman]

Never said it was broken. Like I say, things here are better than most places in the world. That's no reason not to improve it; since when has "good enough," been good enough?

I get the feeling you're seeing what you want to see or believe you'll see. I don't get that impression from people at all. The lazy, scam-the-system, never work at all types exist, but I feel they're a tiny minority. Most people want to participate in society, find a job they can do and do it well. Those people certainly aren't the cream of the crop who lead, take risks, and push society upwards (and who , when successful, deserve to be rich), but they still deserve a fair proportion of the wealth that the society they participate in generates. These days, I don't think they're getting that.

I see the complete opposite of that with the simple facts of obesity on the rise and all these other health issues from complacencey of thats "good enough" I see why to many people that dont want work and just want to spend there days goofing off , espically more from people my age and younger. I dont see the drive to work hard any more and be rewarded for it .

I think we agree more then we disagree , that yes the top of the field the top .1% has way to much , but again thats more being born into it then acutally earn it anymore.

- Anyhow off for the day got customers to see

- My views could be skewed a bit since the HVAC Field is a bit harder then most and right now most customers I speak to / Mech HVAC Contractors cant find skilled people let alone someone to work for them anymore . Starting Pay with just your EPA cert for a 18yr old is $12-15hr depending on knowledge and such.

[Chilledman]

no dude, if that's per family, that's 2 incomes!!! so 2 minimum wage jobs
that's kinda f__ked actually

Exactly ! Thats the real disturbing part .... its for two people making less then $8hr ....

[GeoffD]

These numbers make me feel better about my self--are they accurate? Can I get a citation?

Google "top 10% income". Here are the first three links that all use 2009 or 2010 IRS data.

http://www.financialsamurai.com/2011...-make-percent/

http://ntu.org/tax-basics/who-pays-income-taxes.html

http://www.taxfoundation.org/news/show/250.html

[2Cor]

We're supposed to feel bad for these idiots?

How is she an "idiot"? I suspect that your reply will be funny enough, however you should lay out your personal life so we can all have a good chuckle.

[Egilbe]

Most view there jobs as a space to occupy there lifes with till the weekend when they can spend it doing something pointless as argueing with people on the interent ....

And its the simple things of doing ....

Putting a full 8hrs of work in.
Eating Correctly
Exercising

Just imagine if the intept 50% acutally did those to the fullest extent ... imagine what we used to get done .... now all I see is fat people everywhere sitting down , surfing the interent .

You should of seen the obease mutants at the hockey game I went to last night , I thought I was going to be eaten alive by some of them

I've seen your posts on what you eat on a typical day.

[mad8vskillz]

[Manu44]

Google "top 10% income". Here are the first three links that all use 2009 or 2010 IRS data.

http://ntu.org/tax-basics/who-pays-income-taxes.html

This is the key thing that OWS and other idiots that chant "pay your fare share" like to ignore. The top 10% of earners pay 70% of the federal taxes.

Rich people may pay 15% tax rate bit they have a WAY larger base as well as being taxed in more ways than average people.

Every time these things are brought up in these stupid threads, these posts are "overlooked", when in reality the above data (from the IRS) is very relevant.

Sent from my Nexus S using Tapatalk

[Egilbe]

This is the key thing that OWS and other idiots that chant "pay your fare share" like to ignore. The top 10% of earners pay 70% of the federal taxes.

Rich people may pay 15% tax rate bit they have a WAY larger base as well as being taxed in more ways than average people.

Every time these things are brought up in these stupid threads, these posts are "overlooked", when in reality the above data (from the IRS) is very relevant.

Sent from my Nexus S using Tapatalk

They should pay the most taxes. They are gaining the most benefits from the system. Poor people don't pay taxes because they are poor. If the poor weren't poor, they could pay taxes, right?

As a percent of income and total taxed amount, the poor pay a fair bit in taxes.

[ATL_Av8r]

Why don't the bottom 50% pay their fair share?

[Egilbe]

Why don't the bottom 50% pay their fair share?

federal income tax is different than total taxes

[GeoffD]

go to college, major in computer science
flip jobs every year or so. (web/database developer using microsoft tech) for 3 years
be a consultant for a couple years. flip jobs every 1-3 months. for 2 years
get asked (begged?) to stay full-time at a client

yes, i drove 250,000 miles in the last 5 years. yes it's a lot of interviewing. yes I did have to bust my ass (sometimes), and yes I was treated like "the guy they brought in to eliminate our jobs" half the time.

surprisingly, the whole offshoring thing HELPED me a lot. I had quite a few contracts un-f__king messes the indian software companies created.

Yep. That's what I've been paying for "Senior Software Engineer" with 5 years experience, references that check out, and specific experience. That's the metro-Boston market. The problem is that only about 5% to 10% of the population has the aptitude to do the work. The pay scale reflects the relative scarcity of the labor pool. ...and yeah, in an environment where companies don't hand out raises, you have to flip jobs a couple of times to get there.

For an "average" person, you're not going to make top-10% off W-2 money if you're filing "single" on your federal tax return. You pretty much have to start your own business and it will take a decade of hard work to get to that income level. Most people aren't willing to make the sacrifice. If you're married, there are a lot of $50K to $60K jobs that can combine to get to the top-10%. Public school teacher with a masters and some years in the system. Medical jobs like RN, X-Ray or Ultrasound tech. Cops in urban or high cost of living areas. Paralegal.

[GeoffD]

Why don't the bottom 50% pay their fair share?

I don't get this....

You're married, have two kids, and make a combined $30K. Since the US has crap public transportation, you need two cars. You have to pay rent & utilities. You have to feed and clothe your kids. I don't get this "politics of greed" thing where you think someone in those circumstances should be paying federal income taxes. We have earned income tax credits and child tax credits to offset payroll taxes so those people don't have to live in their car.

There are millions of households exactly like this.

[ATL_Av8r]

I don't get this...

You're married, have two kids, and make a combined $30K.

I don't get that either. That's just ridiculous