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    Thread: h2o2 what do you think?

    1. Member DMVDUB's Avatar
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      12-20-2011 03:17 PM #1
      it's an oxidizer
      its by product is h2o
      mixed with meth, the cooling properties plus extra fuel from meth could balance the extra o2

      bad part is it's corrosive to iron... don't think that's an issue in the VW AWp though. Especially in low concentration.

      Possibly a better alternative to nitromethane?

      I'm thinking:
      60% methanol
      30% h2o
      10% h2o2

      or
      40% methanol
      50% h2o
      10% h2o2

      what do you think?

      @Scott, I believe you may have been thinking about something similar
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    2. Forum Sponsor Scott@USRT's Avatar
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      12-21-2011 09:15 PM #2
      Quote Originally Posted by DMVDUB View Post
      it's an oxidizer
      its by product is h2o
      mixed with meth, the cooling properties plus extra fuel from meth could balance the extra o2
      Oooh noooz... You've released my mad idea hounds! The water/meth scene will never be the same. Yes, I have been looking into this for a while but, I've not completed testing. I've consulted with a a chemical engineer, a Texas Mile racer, and looked at Nazi rocket technology, too. (Seriously. It's relevant and easy to find. -not tryin' to be odd. K?)

      bad part is it's corrosive to iron...
      I wouldn't worry about that in the slightest. As you figured, the concentration is too low. Secondly, H202 breaks down immediately into H20 + 02 in the presence of heat and intake "schmutz". (Yiddish FTW)

      Possibly a better alternative to nitromethane?
      Well... H202 in the mix would definitely increase overall fuel burn rate. However, it'd also reduce the octane boosting effect. That's because more fuel would be burnt and contribute to increased cylinder pressure. My intuition is that a significant amount of the stuff would be very helpful for a mild supercharging effect on small turbo cars. It'd theoretically add the same amount of hp on a big turbo car, but the proportion would drop as the the power output increases.

      So, after a point, nitromethane would have an absolute advantage. It's important to note that nitro in the brew reduces EGT when run in sensible proportions. It actually has an octane enhancing effect and is quite helpful for increasing power up to 8 - 10% over base output. Running a few % more water is a good idea to keep it smooth and steady under a wider range of conditions.

      I'm thinking:
      60% methanol
      30% h2o
      10% h2o2

      or
      40% methanol
      50% h2o
      10% h2o2

      what do you think?

      @Scott, I believe you may have been thinking about something similar
      I did my tests SO long ago (~2002), that I can't remember the hard specifics. However, I can see the logic in your formulas and recall doing something like this:

      45% methanol
      35% h2o
      20% h2o2

      My test rig was direct port and with nitrous oxide, btw. Those were the high-risk wild days. (Muhahahhaaaaaa )

      Scott F. Williams, Team Director
      US Rally Team
      www.facebook.com/usrallyteam

    3. Member Krieger's Avatar
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      12-22-2011 10:42 AM #3
      I had thought about it about a year ago and put some in my WM tank. I initially started with the off the shelf bottles, but that didnt seem to do too much, other than provide an expensive source of water for my mix. lmao.

      I have found a local lady who said she would sell me 10% concentration they use for hair if I wanted it, but I'm not 100% sure if I want to... my APR tune already runs STUPID rich, and weak, so until I can get logs going on all of it during the process, Im not pulling the trigger.

      It would be a nice combo to run with a richer Meth mix tho, as all that extra burning meth needs O2 to burn up, so you could theoretically vastly increase power if you get it all right, plus the increase in cylinder pressure from the expanding water vapor... Would be great to get a dyno run going, run logs, just play with it all.
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    4. Forum Sponsor Scott@USRT's Avatar
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      12-23-2011 09:19 AM #4
      Quote Originally Posted by Krieger View Post
      I had thought about it about a year ago and put some in my WM tank. I initially started with the off the shelf bottles, but that didnt seem to do too much, other than provide an expensive source of water for my mix.
      Yeah, it's only 3%. That's pretty much useless.

      I have found a local lady who said she would sell me 10% concentration they use for hair
      Go find a hydroponics store and purchase a bottle of 30%. THAT stuff is wicked potent. Do NOT get it on your skin. Holy crap it stings.

      my APR tune already runs STUPID rich, and weak, so until I can get logs going on all of it during the process, Im not pulling the trigger.
      That's smart thinking. Of course, the extra oxygen freed as the peroxide breaks down will help rectify the overly rich condition.

      It would be a nice combo to run with a richer Meth mix tho, as all that extra burning meth needs O2 to burn up, so you could theoretically vastly increase power if you get it all right,
      Yep, but ultimately H202 and methanol have a love/hate relationship. They like to explode in contact with each other. This will increase cylinder pressures... but, will it offset the octane boost? This is the sort of thing that I couldn't test almost 10 years ago. Aftermarket data logging was prohibitively expensive.

      plus the increase in cylinder pressure from the expanding water vapor... Would be great to get a dyno run going, run logs, just play with it all.
      You're a sharp guy, Krieger. If you care to do some testing, USRT will be happy to support. We can supply concentrated H202, nitromethane, guidance, etc.
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    5. Member Krieger's Avatar
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      12-23-2011 10:12 AM #5
      Well, hopefully Ill be buying a VAG-COM here in the next week or two, so after that, ill gladly start trying out different mixes, started at 85% water, 15% h202, then 70% water, 30% h202. After that, Ill start throwing some meth in the mix, and see just where the sweet spot is before we go overboard and cause a potential "runaway" reaction.

      I have been doing some research, thinking it might be a good idea to get a trunk mounted tank, and moving my pump away from it's current spot mounted to my battery... h202 does not respond well to heat...

      Scott, Ive called you before (Michael Young from Fl. Got your spacer about 2-3 months ago) to talk about WM, so im sure ill be calling you again about all of this, and we can bounce ideas around, get a game plan going. Definitely don't want to just go shooting in the dark... especially with something that can potentially pop a motor
      2006 Audi A3 | 2.0T | 6MT | APR Stage 2+ | Fully loaded ECU | FK grill | EJ CAI | BSH TBP |EJ DV Reloc. | Eurojet TBE | EuroJet Catch Tank | Cross drilled and Slotted Rotors | EBC "Redstuff" Kevlar | Raceland Coilovers | Forge Side to Side Short Shifter | Forge Front to Back Short Shifter | Devil's Own DVC-30 Methanol injection | BSH RSB | BSH Motor mount Kit | 42 DD Shifter Bushings | HPFP Stage 1 upgrade |

    6. 03-01-2012 03:39 AM #6
      Im down to test this. On a dyno with and without on a big turbo setup
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    7. Member Vegeta Gti's Avatar
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      03-04-2012 03:26 PM #7
      my set up is ready to test when ever

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