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    Thread: gurus! ive got a challenge for ya. motronic whoas pic inside

    1. Member dublife1992's Avatar
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      92 Golf 2.0 16v cis-m. 82 rabbit 1.6 TD
      12-30-2011 09:51 PM #1
      http://s1207.photobucket.com/albums/...rent=image.jpg

      I have spent hours possibly days on vortex searching and trying to trouble shoot my issues. i have learned alot but not enough. this may be long but please read and please help where you can. Thank you
      the patient : 92 golf. I dropped in a 92(ish) 2.0 16v motronic ( originally passat).
      donor car was an 89 gti which the po gave up on.
      got er runnin poorly and i have just been chippin away over the past few months. i was getting decent fuel milage but now its just brutal. the exhaust just reeks of gas and i have a difficult cold start unless i richen the mixture a tad. on top of that a high idle, around 1000 at start and straight up to 2000+ when she warms up ( blippin the throttle does nothing ) low power ta boot

      new parts:
      cts
      o2 sensor 3 wire at first but i just put in a 4 wire
      pluggs (3 electrode)
      fuel filter
      injector o rings
      maybe others? bad memory

      New Used parts:
      dprs Plural
      isv
      fuel dizzys plural
      throttle switches

      ive checked air sensor plate for free play and rest position, changed the timing belt. i did a smoke test for vac leaks with no results( doesnt mean there isnt one but none that i can find) there are almost no vacuum lines. one from the diaphragm pr to the intake box, the break booster and the large ones to the isv and the cc breather and the ones that lead from those. the rest have been eliminated. maybe i should have more ? the evap system is not connected any more, no ac

      the part that bothers me most is the Ma reading i get from the dpr. its supposed to be around 2.5 but im getting reading like 6-7 which would suggest im getting a lean condition(my exhaust beggs to differ) but no matter what i do to the mixture screw it wont sit right. i can lean it to the point where its stalls and the reading is always in the 5-7 range and i can drown it in fuel but it'll never go even as low as 3s.
      while running, if i unplug the 02 signal wire there is no change in the reading or idle
      if i unplug the isv there is no difference
      if i unplug the cts same deal
      but if i unplug the throttle body switches the idle lowers to around 14 1500, now if i plug or unplug the isv there is a change. pluged in it'll sit around 1100 ( this is the case with two different sets of switches. ive checked for voltage, continuity and resistance between ground ecu and power on all of the sensors while wiggling the harnesses. and yes the throttle is making good contact with the idle switch. if i bridge the idle switch the idle rises? fvck me whats going on?
      i have 2 other ecu s that i have tried but both of them will not allow the car to start unless they are so rich that you could light the exhaust on fire. i can lean it out with the car running but then it wont start again unless you richen her up again. i even tried running her around the block a couple times with my flammable exhaust to try to make the comp learn but still the same result.
      so back to the original ecu
      im so lost
      please help! oh and dont tell me to clean the isv lol
      i must have missed something (small hopefully)

      ps thoughts:
      is my ecu housing supposed to have a ground of its own?
      can someone give me the resistance the csv should have over the 2 terminals?
      If you don't stand for something...
      You'll fall for anything.

    2. Member Legoguy's Avatar
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      1988 VW Cabriolet 16V / 1992 VW Cabriolet Wolfsburg Edition / 2008 Rabbit 2.5L
      01-27-2012 05:08 PM #2
      This is just a guess, but if you are experiencing both of these:

      1. high idle, or surging high idle
      2. No Cold Start Injector function, thus hard to cold start

      in CIS-E Motronic, both of these functions' power wires are part of the same circuit, if I recall correctly it is a black/white wire - when I did my 16v swap and spliced the CIS-E Motronic harness into CIS, I made a mistake and wired the Black/White wire from the Motronic harness into ground - as that is what made sense following circuit diagrams that were in the Bentleys. I did not study A2Resource.com as much as I should and I ended up having the ISV stay wide open and the CSV not function at all. Check that wire, might help. It should be connected to switched power.
      Last edited by Legoguy; 01-27-2012 at 05:30 PM.

    3. Member Chev2dub's Avatar
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      07 2.0t passat 84 GLI 16v CIS-M~
      01-27-2012 10:09 PM #3
      check your temp sensor! and wiring to temp sensor! also pull codes with a LED test Light. And last ditch change your ISV

    4. Member Chev2dub's Avatar
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      07 2.0t passat 84 GLI 16v CIS-M~
      01-27-2012 10:11 PM #4
      also Make sure your vaccum line from the Lower portion of the intake is plugged into the intake boot as it should be. AND CHECK AND REPLACE THE ISV. Did i mention Replace the isv i had 3 bad ones before i got a good one. look up posts under my name! i did a bunch with this.

    5. Member dublife1992's Avatar
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      92 Golf 2.0 16v cis-m. 82 rabbit 1.6 TD
      02-02-2012 09:52 PM #5
      so i was convinced i had a vacuum leak so did a very thorough smoke test with every individual line and i found one in the evap lines. that fixed the high idle.
      im now stuck with my cold start , she fires right up in the morning but dies 2 seconds later. then fires back up for 3 second then 4 then 5 then 6 then it will hold a low idle until it warms up a bit.
      if i drive to the corner store shut it down. it will take me givvin her a little throttle to make her start up again . wont start at all if i dont hit the throttle.
      i tested the resistance on the csv and it seems ok i think, its about 11 ohms resistance. but if i test the harness the wire to the ecu has continuity to gound( very slight but i thought that was wrong about 14 ohms if im reading the meter right) same with the isv not as much but more than zero wich is what one would expect.
      there is a new cts and i checked the harness for connecting to the ecu and everything checked out but my next step is to double check those 2 wires.
      as far as checking flash codes i would love to but i did the swapp and unfortunately the diagnostic wires didnt come with. i did get a set of diag connectors and i hooked up the two wires that go to the ecu but i am not sure about the power wire is there supposed to be a relay that it connects to
      ?
      thanks for the suggestions
      any more ideas?
      If you don't stand for something...
      You'll fall for anything.

    6. Member Chev2dub's Avatar
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      07 2.0t passat 84 GLI 16v CIS-M~
      02-11-2012 11:12 PM #6
      The Cold start valve works off of the info it gets from the Coolant Temp sensor. if your wiring there is shorted/fried or anything of the sort. your ecu would not be getting the info that your Coolant temp is low enough to engage the CSV..... So in Short. CTS controls your CTS which goes through the ECU.....

      Just to throw this out there again, a fault isv will not open enough or open to much and act as a vaccum leak do your self a favor and find one or 12... at a junk yard a switch a few our and see if that helps your starting. but im willing to put money on the CTS wiring.


      try this too and report back. Turn the key to "on" not start... then turn it off. repeat three times and then try to start it. that will be loading you up with a bit more fuel. not much more but i seriously suspect the Coolant temp sensor wiring.

    7. Member dublife1992's Avatar
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      92 Golf 2.0 16v cis-m. 82 rabbit 1.6 TD
      02-14-2012 07:11 PM #7
      Thanks for the advice . I rewierd the cts properly ( removed the pins from the connectors and solderd them with new wire )
      Made absolutely no difference.
      The starting issue is present wether or not the isv is plugged in so I don't think that is an issue right now. But have you any idea what components the isv uses to gather its info?
      Also the bently isn't giving me enough info about the warm up enrichment . What all is involved in it. Does the csv supply the extra fuel or does the dpr allow extra fuel to the injectors?
      Is it only the cts that gives the Ecu it's info for the warm up enrichment or does the o2 help Aswel?
      If you don't stand for something...
      You'll fall for anything.

    8. Member Legoguy's Avatar
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      1988 VW Cabriolet 16V / 1992 VW Cabriolet Wolfsburg Edition / 2008 Rabbit 2.5L
      02-21-2012 01:50 AM #8
      The ISV acts as a source for extra air during engine warm up, especially after cold starting. If the ISV isn't wired right, or the wires are broken, of course there will be no change if you unplug it. You need to verify that the idle stabilizer is working at all. When I had my ISV grounded I had the same starting issues as you - had to hold the throttle down for a while until the engine warmed up enough to keep the engine running without the ISVs assistance.

      Since you have CIS-E Motronic, you are at an advantage - you have not only the CIS-E Motronic Trouble Codes to work with, you also have the (quite un-documented) CIS-E Motronic Output Tests to play with.
      There's a section in the Bentley about checking the fault codes;
      http://www.race.nangreaves.com/golf/FU01/ch3.4.html

      But there is no such section about using the CIS-E Motronic Output Tests, which I pretty much had to write myself;
      http://turbogfx.homelinux.org/CIS-E%...t%20System.pdf

      Follow these procedures, and you should have a pretty good idea what's happening afterwards. If you didn't happen to hook up the diagnostic connectors to the ECU, now is a good time to do so! They are a lifesaver.

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