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    VWVortex


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    Thread: Build thread. Porsche 964 VR6 Turbo

    1. 01-11-2012 05:13 PM #26
      Idle isn't the problem. If you're sitting there, the engine isn't generating much for heat so fans connected to a radiator positioned almost anywhere will be enough. When you're at the track and on it for 20 minutes, you've got more than enough heat and the fans may not keep up.

      Ideally, there's very little air under the car. A properly set up chassis will create a vacuum under the car, and even on an improperly set up car it'll be fairly low pressure so there won't be much flow to pick up and stuff through a radiator there. If you have any decent air under the car, it'll produce lift and all the horsepower in the world won't get you around the track as fast as a well tuned stock MKI Scirocco.

      Experience tells me air is gonna have to come from somewhere else to keep up with a VR6, more if it's got a hair drier.

    2. 01-11-2012 05:32 PM #27
      Quote Originally Posted by rohar View Post
      Idle isn't the problem. If you're sitting there, the engine isn't generating much for heat so fans connected to a radiator positioned almost anywhere will be enough. When you're at the track and on it for 20 minutes, you've got more than enough heat and the fans may not keep up.

      Ideally, there's very little air under the car. A properly set up chassis will create a vacuum under the car, and even on an improperly set up car it'll be fairly low pressure so there won't be much flow to pick up and stuff through a radiator there. If you have any decent air under the car, it'll produce lift and all the horsepower in the world won't get you around the track as fast as a well tuned stock MKI Scirocco.

      Experience tells me air is gonna have to come from somewhere else to keep up with a VR6, more if it's got a hair drier.
      yeah thats what i thought about the lift, wasnt sure how much it would be an issue.

      fans on both sides? one blowing, one sucking?
      maybe the widebody rear with the vents cut into them with ducts running to radiator would help that.
      i've also seen a gt style wing that had 2 scoops on the side that could potentially use to route ducts to the radiator as well. not much for wings but when function is needed over form, i'll do it.
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    3. 01-11-2012 05:46 PM #28
      Quote Originally Posted by Brad@AdaptecSpeedware View Post
      yeah thats what i thought about the lift, wasnt sure how much it would be an issue.

      fans on both sides? one blowing, one sucking?
      maybe the widebody rear with the vents cut into them with ducts running to radiator would help that.
      i've also seen a gt style wing that had 2 scoops on the side that could potentially use to route ducts to the radiator as well. not much for wings but when function is needed over form, i'll do it.
      This is where I start to loose control of physics. Bernoulli was a bastard. There's a low pressure area under the car, we know this as it's the most effective chassis in racing so it's got some stick. Worse, there's a high pressure area above the wing. There must be or it wouldn't be effective as a wing. Now Jens the Porsche designer drank 2 beers per day at work due to union agreement, but he wasn't completely nuts. That wing causes down force. Given all that, how the hell did the intercoolers in the porsche turbos work? It would seem air is traveling from above to below due to pressure differential, but honestly I don't have a clue. If it did, there'd be lift, but we've seen from thousands of hours of racing that isn't the case. Seems to break the rules of physics.

      It might just work, all the evidence says it should, but I'll be damned if i can explain it.

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      01-11-2012 10:26 PM #29
      butcher.

      BTW an air cooled VW motor and early 356 motors are not the same. They use the same idea but the parts are very different.

    5. 01-11-2012 11:10 PM #30
      Quote Originally Posted by weaponized kitten View Post
      butcher.
      thank you, i've been thinking of a great name for the car
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    6. 01-12-2012 05:39 PM #31
      Quote Originally Posted by weaponized kitten View Post
      BTW an air cooled VW motor and early 356 motors are not the same.
      Uh, who said anything about the 356 motor? Random...

    7. Member ms.golf's Avatar
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      01-12-2012 06:11 PM #32


      vag engine eh? which vw are you finding this in rohar?


      this project is going to be terrible

    8. 01-12-2012 06:24 PM #33
      Quote Originally Posted by ms.golf View Post


      this project is going to be terrible
      terribly fast
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    9. 01-12-2012 06:29 PM #34
      Quote Originally Posted by ms.golf View Post

      vag engine eh? which vw are you finding this in rohar?


      this project is going to be terrible
      The Boxster engine was a joint design between Porsche and Audi. This is a big reason why there's so much interchangeability of parts. Porsche produced it in house. Given the quality of the product, I'm not sure that was a good thing.

      The list continues though, the 944, 924 etc... There's so much inbreading between these two companies it's hard to logically be a "purist". Besides, with VAG ownership of Porsche, if there ever was any purity it's completely gone now.

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      01-12-2012 10:20 PM #35
      are all 79 of your posts this stupid?
      card carrying autocrat.

      my sofa pulls out, but I don't.

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      01-12-2012 10:23 PM #36
      No, this is really stupid.
      card carrying autocrat.

      my sofa pulls out, but I don't.

    12. 01-12-2012 11:49 PM #37
      Quote Originally Posted by blackohio View Post
      are all 79 of your posts this stupid?
      Oh at least. Hang out a bit, you might learn something. In the interim could we maybe not fog up Brad's thread with our preconceived notions of what chassis are and are not acceptable for a VAG engine swap? Just because the most you can afford is a MkIII, doesn't mean he can's rod the hell out of his 911. He's got an excellent roller and the VR6 is a proven powerhouse. There's no reason this won't work except for execution. If I were you I'd bag the attitude, take some notes, and maybe try and build something better once you figure out what's going on.

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      01-13-2012 12:10 AM #38
      Quote Originally Posted by rohar View Post
      Oh at least. Hang out a bit, you might learn something. In the interim could we maybe not fog up Brad's thread with our preconceived notions of what chassis are and are not acceptable for a VAG engine swap? Just because the most you can afford is a MkIII, doesn't mean he can's rod the hell out of his 911. He's got an excellent roller and the VR6 is a proven powerhouse. There's no reason this won't work except for execution. If I were you I'd bag the attitude, take some notes, and maybe try and build something better once you figure out what's going on.
      yes, because you know all about me. This is certainly my first walk in the park, in-fact i've never even modded a car at 14 it's really hard to afford all of you big man stuffs. Someday i hope to have as little of an idea of what engines Porsche/VW co-designed.

      Lets throw 300 vertical pounds in the rear of an almost perfectly balanced car. This is a stupid idea and if brad could afford a porsche engine I'm sure he would. I guess this kind of idiotic swap is right up the alley for the guy that poineered bolting xterra wheels on vw's.
      Last edited by blackohio; 01-13-2012 at 12:15 AM.
      card carrying autocrat.

      my sofa pulls out, but I don't.

    14. 01-13-2012 12:18 AM #39
      VR6: 373 lbs
      Porsche 3.2: 440 lbs

      He's dropping 67 lbs by converting. Are you high?

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      01-13-2012 12:25 AM #40
      Theres more to it than just the numbers.

      One motor is dimensionally tall while the other is low and flat.

      So either your stupid or, well. stupid.
      card carrying autocrat.

      my sofa pulls out, but I don't.

    16. 01-13-2012 12:46 AM #41
      Neither are low and flat. One block is low and flat, but it's carrying a varioram intake which is 1.5" farther from the crank center (taller) than the top of the valve cover on the VR6. Since this is gonna be a boosted VR6, I assumed a short runner which makes it a shorter engine than the varioram. After you think about that, immagine the VR6 is lighter overall than the 3.2.

      Beyond that, since new mounts are going to be fabricated anyway, he has the opportunity to flip the ring gear in the G50 and run it upside down, allowing him to mount the engine another 2" lower and maintain axle angle. This would probably drop the CG below stock.

      I understand your reaction. But this is obviously a subject matter you have no knowledge of. Like I said before, you may want to pay attention rather than criticize.

    17. 01-13-2012 01:39 AM #42
      lol now you are making assumptions of what i can and can't afford? plenty of cheap running 964 engines on the forums and even a fresh rebuilt one for $5k. if i wanted a porsche engine, i would put one in there. i got a great deal on a solid, clean title chassis, love the vr6 and just want to do something different. if you don't agree, oh well. you have that right
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    18. Member ms.golf's Avatar
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      01-13-2012 02:27 PM #43
      Quote Originally Posted by rohar View Post
      The Boxster engine was a joint design between Porsche and Audi. This is a big reason why there's so much interchangeability of parts. Porsche produced it in house. Given the quality of the product, I'm not sure that was a good thing.
      where are you getting this from? got a source?

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      01-14-2012 12:21 AM #44
      Well if you are talking about anything newer than a 356 motor and an air cooled VW motor you are getting even farther apart relationship wise.

    20. 01-14-2012 01:00 PM #45
      listen, i could give 2 ****s about what ties porsche and vw have. if you dont like the build, simply hit the back button. you guys want to bitch back and forth do it in pm's or start your own thread.

      now back to the build.
      parts are starting to roll in. going to just mount the radiator in the front and run the piping thru the heater channels. will solve all my cooling issues and leave room for the turbo.
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    21. 01-14-2012 01:16 PM #46
      You've got a hell of a point, and I apologize for egging it on.

      We've found Gates green stripe hose is awesome for running through the heater ducts. Pliable but stands up to the test of time. Renegade has a kit for a little over $100. I haven't seen it that cheep anywhere else.

      One complaint we've seen is that it does bleed some heat into the cabin, so a lot of guys are starting to encase the hoses in expandable foam as insulation.

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      01-14-2012 02:14 PM #47
      Quote Originally Posted by rohar View Post
      VR6: 373 lbs
      Porsche 3.2: 440 lbs
      Interesting
      Throw an Audi engineer down a hole with a ladder and he will fashion a shovel from it and tunnel his way out

      Quote Originally Posted by shwak23 View Post
      You could always call your insurance and say that some vandals tried to swap your car to rwd while you weren't looking.

    23. 01-14-2012 02:28 PM #48
      Quote Originally Posted by rohar View Post
      You've got a hell of a point, and I apologize for egging it on.

      We've found Gates green stripe hose is awesome for running through the heater ducts. Pliable but stands up to the test of time. Renegade has a kit for a little over $100. I haven't seen it that cheep anywhere else.

      One complaint we've seen is that it does bleed some heat into the cabin, so a lot of guys are starting to encase the hoses in expandable foam as insulation.
      yeah i think i just read about that on a ls swapped 993. i talked to the guys at renegade yesterday. pretty damn knowledgable on radiators up front
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    24. 01-14-2012 04:00 PM #49
      You might want to sign up over at 914world.com. More swap madness than should be seen all in one forum. Guys with LOTS of experience.

    25. 01-14-2012 07:29 PM #50
      Quote Originally Posted by rohar View Post
      You might want to sign up over at 914world.com. More swap madness than should be seen all in one forum. Guys with LOTS of experience.
      Adaptec Speedware
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