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    Thread: Nokia introduces Lumia 900 exclusively for AT&T

    1. Member Sosl0w's Avatar
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      02-01-2012 07:52 AM #26
      Quote Originally Posted by Art Vandelay View Post
      Poor performance and stability problems all but vanished once Froyo became mainstream. I can't believe we're still having this conversation in 2012.

      I've yet to meet a single WP7 owner who isn't super defensive about his choice. Why is that?
      Haha that's whats funny. I'm not a WP7 owner. And never have been. I have an android phone and have had one for the past 2 years. So my opinion is coming from having and using android. I can very easily see all of the ways that windows phone is better, it is easier to see it though when you view it from the development side and your using and working with multiple phones on both OS.

      And your Froyo comment couldn't be farther from the truth. Android has just as many bugs now as it did then. Which is why we are still having this convo. And which is why there are droidrage hashs all over twitter. People are really starting to get tired of dealing with android. Windows phone is going to blow up over the next year or two.
      Last edited by Sosl0w; 02-01-2012 at 10:48 AM.
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    2. Member SSj4G60's Avatar
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      02-01-2012 03:35 PM #27
      Quote Originally Posted by Sosl0w View Post
      And your Froyo comment couldn't be farther from the truth. Android has just as many bugs now as it did then. Which is why we are still having this convo. And which is why there are droidrage hashs all over twitter. People are really starting to get tired of dealing with android. Windows phone is going to blow up over the next year or two.
      What bugs are you experiencing and across how many phones? I rarely hear any complaints from my non tech savvy friends w/ Android phones other than battery life could be better.

    3. Member Art Vandelay's Avatar
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      02-01-2012 03:56 PM #28
      Quote Originally Posted by Sosl0w View Post
      Windows phone is going to blow up over the next year or two.
      That's how I know you're a fanboy, instead of just a fan. I would honestly be surprised if WP still existed in two years. Research companies rarely bother to even mention WP when discussing market share. You can't even graph it properly because the line would be resting on the X-axis.

      The interface is compelling, but their fate was sealed when they launched two years too late with an incomplete feature set.
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    4. Global Moderator 16v's Avatar
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      02-01-2012 05:37 PM #29
      Quote Originally Posted by Art Vandelay View Post
      I would honestly be surprised if WP still existed in two years.
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    5. Senior Member Son's Avatar
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      02-02-2012 03:16 AM #30
      Quote Originally Posted by 16v View Post
      Then again, operators (one of which I understood you are working at) have expressed that they'd need some more variety to the market with iOS and Android dominating it alone.
      Previously known as Son of a B...5er!

    6. Member Sosl0w's Avatar
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      02-02-2012 09:01 AM #31
      Quote Originally Posted by Art Vandelay View Post
      That's how I know you're a fanboy, instead of just a fan. I would honestly be surprised if WP still existed in two years. Research companies rarely bother to even mention WP when discussing market share. You can't even graph it properly because the line would be resting on the X-axis.

      The interface is compelling, but their fate was sealed when they launched two years too late with an incomplete feature set.
      Haha I'm most def not a fan boy. I suggest the iPhone to people all the time and have nothing against Apple or its OS. Its stable, feature rich, and built on great hardware. When people ask me about phones and my opinion on what they should get, I suggest WP or the Iphone.

      And no offense but your blinded love for android is really starting to show now. To think WP would be dead in 2 years is just ignorance at its best. Microsoft makes more money off Android than it does WP due to patients. Android's success is paying to develop WP. Its only a matter of time until WP catches on, and if it takes longer than expected... Who cares? Android is footing the bill anyways.

      WP is the underdog. It's new and it breaks all the rules. Microsoft went a completely different direction than Android and the Iphone in terms of UI, look, and feel. That is why I like WP. I want to see it succeed and I'm excited for something new in the market on hardware from Nokia who is also coming back to the market. Fanboy? No. Excited about another option available in the market? Yes
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    7. Member Art Vandelay's Avatar
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      02-02-2012 09:34 AM #32
      Quote Originally Posted by Sosl0w View Post
      It's new and it breaks all the rules.
      I lost it when I got to this part.

      Buy one now, while you still can.
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    8. Member chickenium's Avatar
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      02-02-2012 11:46 AM #33
      Quote Originally Posted by Art Vandelay View Post
      I've yet to meet a single WP7 owner who isn't super defensive about his choice. Why is that?
      Because every discussion about WP7 inevitably ends up with IPhone and Android owners spewing their superiority.
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      02-02-2012 11:49 AM #34
      Quote Originally Posted by chickenium View Post
      Because every discussion about WP7 inevitably ends up with IPhone and Android owners spewing their superiority.
      Kind of like Mr. Art himself.

    10. Member Sosl0w's Avatar
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      02-02-2012 01:37 PM #35
      Quote Originally Posted by SSj4G60 View Post
      What bugs are you experiencing and across how many phones? I rarely hear any complaints from my non tech savvy friends w/ Android phones other than battery life could be better.
      The biggest complaints I hear are lock ups and having to battery pull, apps crashing/slow/memory leaks/etc, weird behavior in general such as the gyro randomly switching at random times, apps opening on there own etc etc. And of course battery life. But honestly to me that is more on the hardware vender than it is Android itself so I don't count that. Cause my Droid incredible had TERRIBLE battery life but my Galaxy S II has pretty decent battery life imo.
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    11. Member Art Vandelay's Avatar
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      02-02-2012 02:58 PM #36
      Quote Originally Posted by GahannaKid View Post
      Kind of like Mr. Art himself.
      My opinion is strictly about WP7's viability in the marketplace, not the OS itself. A nice looking Nokia handset isn't nearly enough to change their fortunes.

      I wish we could have a legitimate 3rd competitor to Google and Apple. Ironically, I think Nokia still has the best chance, but not with their current Microsoft partnership. The N9 is really the only phone on the market right now that I could get excited about. http://swipe.nokia.com/
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    12. Member chickenium's Avatar
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      02-02-2012 03:58 PM #37
      Quote Originally Posted by Art Vandelay View Post
      My opinion is strictly about WP7's viability in the marketplace, not the OS itself. A nice looking Nokia handset isn't nearly enough to change their fortunes.

      I wish we could have a legitimate 3rd competitor to Google and Apple. Ironically, I think Nokia still has the best chance, but not with their current Microsoft partnership. The N9 is really the only phone on the market right now that I could get excited about. http://swipe.nokia.com/
      It's the same phone with a very similar UI.
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    13. Member Art Vandelay's Avatar
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      02-02-2012 05:32 PM #38
      Quote Originally Posted by chickenium View Post
      It's the same phone with a very similar UI.
      Yeah, the hardware is great. I wouldn't call it a very similar UI, though.
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      02-02-2012 06:22 PM #39
      Quote Originally Posted by Art Vandelay View Post
      My opinion is strictly about WP7's viability in the marketplace, not the OS itself. A nice looking Nokia handset isn't nearly enough to change their fortunes.
      Fair enough, though I'm going to still disagree. Granted I'm biased since I own one but I think WP is the only viable third party OS right now and unless something changes dramatically in a fashion that none of us could foresee I predict it will continue to be so in the future.

      Android & iOS will continue to dominate, Apple because it's Apple and they're the apple of everyone's eye right now (no pun intended) and Android because it's cheap and allows venders to differentiate themselves. Blackberryis on a downward spiral with no rescue plan in site, the N9 & co are stillborn, Meego has nowhere to go thanks to Android on the high end & Nokia on the low, and Bada doesn't have the support to push any sort of market penetration.

      That leaves Windows Phone. A clean OS with good reviews and the weight of two juggernauts behind it. Microsoft has a clear, concise plan for its future,it has developer support that will only improve, and it has/will have the fullintegration of Microsoft’s ecosystem (Xbox, Office, Skype, Skydrive, Windows 8,Zune). Add to that Nokia and their mindshare in overseas markets, plus their navigation system, and their ability to produce top quality hardware and you have a winning combination that Google can’t touch as far as stability & reliability goes and Apple can't touch as far as choice and freedom goes.

      People ask what does WP7 have that iPhones or Android don't and the answer is the best of both worlds for all but the minority of people who know and/or care what rooting a phone is. You say WP will be dead in two years and I say in one year it will prove you wrong, and in three it will be a solid third or second place OS with every bit of mind share as iOS or Android (if not more).

    15. Global Moderator 16v's Avatar
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      02-02-2012 08:36 PM #40
      Quote Originally Posted by Son View Post
      Then again, operators (one of which I understood you are working at) have expressed that they'd need some more variety to the market with iOS and Android dominating it alone.
      those same operators say many things for the benefit of Wall St
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      02-02-2012 11:58 PM #41
      love being back with Windows Phone 7.

      I get ridiculed all the time by friends for my phone choice, but I never get defensive. I don't make fun of anyone for their phone choice. They like their phones, and I absolutely love my phone. It works, it is stable, it has a fantastic music player, and it has what I need: exchange sync, good battery life, good call quality and fantastic UI.

    17. Member Sosl0w's Avatar
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      02-03-2012 08:25 AM #42
      Quote Originally Posted by SuperGroove View Post
      love being back with Windows Phone 7.

      I get ridiculed all the time by friends for my phone choice, but I never get defensive. I don't make fun of anyone for their phone choice. They like their phones, and I absolutely love my phone. It works, it is stable, it has a fantastic music player, and it has what I need: exchange sync, good battery life, good call quality and fantastic UI.
      And it's only going to get better.... http://www.engadget.com/2012/02/02/w...ne-8-detailed/
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    18. Member chickenium's Avatar
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      02-03-2012 08:39 AM #43
      Quote Originally Posted by Art Vandelay View Post
      Yeah, the hardware is great. I wouldn't call it a very similar UI, though.
      Well if it's anything like the link you posted, it's pretty much only small cosmetic differences.


      • You switch processes by selecting their "snapshots" on the screen, only difference is that they're laid out in 4 quadrants instead of a horizontal line.

      • The swipe to open is any direction instead of vertical.

      • There's something very similar to WP7's people hub but they mix in email/phone notifications and calendar (which you can just access by pressing another tile on WP7 although it's pretty nice to have them all at the same place).

      • Same Email, calendar, phone, etc indicators on the lock screen. Hold touch to access more functions.

      • Same Vertical app list.

      • Photo hub is practically the same.

      • Very crisp and speedy UI like WP7.



      Anyway it's a moot point since Meego is dead and won't be used by Nokia beyond the N9. It's a very nice and simple UI but it doesn't really bring anything that WP7 can't do.

      The MS ecosystem is getting better with every product they put out. They're starting to interconnect all their devices together very well and it'll only get better with the next Xbox and W8.

      Honestly, I think they need to push more games with Xbox interaction. They could grab a sizable part of their console user base if they released solid games.
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    19. 02-03-2012 09:19 AM #44
      WP7 has some serious flaws in my book, in terms of the OS and ecosystem.

      First off, there's a lack of apps, and the available apps are frequently functionally deficient compared to Android or iOS counterparts. Apps and games are also priced higher, sometimes several dollars more for similar apps/games, or apps with less functionality. This is definitely a result of MS requiring developers to pay a fee.. fewer apps, and higher prices.

      About the OS.. I dislike the large text in some instances, which requires you to scroll to see things that should/could easily be displayed on a single page like in the email app. Multi-tasking is poorly implemented. You're limited to running 6 apps in memory, and if you re-launch those apps from the start menu instead of the multi-tasking window, the app opens a second time, which means you don't restore your previous session and you now have a second instantiation of that app taking up one of your six multi-tasking slots. Notifications are also annoying and poorly implemented.. they should just steal the notification setup from Android like iOS did because they both have it right now. But thats just like, my opinion man.
      Last edited by Jesse; 02-03-2012 at 09:26 AM.

    20. Member Art Vandelay's Avatar
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      02-03-2012 09:35 AM #45
      Quote Originally Posted by chickenium View Post
      Honestly, I think they need to push more games with Xbox interaction.
      I think they'd be in a much better position if they had pushed the Xbox angle from the beginning. They could have even called it the Xbox phone. You could easily argue that the Windows brand name is a liability in the smartphone market. Same with touting that the browser is based on Internet Explorer, for that matter.
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    21. Member chickenium's Avatar
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      02-03-2012 09:35 AM #46
      Quote Originally Posted by Jesse View Post
      WP7 has some serious flaws in my book, in terms of the OS and ecosystem.

      First off, there's a lack of apps, and the available apps are frequently functionally deficient compared to Android or iOS counterparts. Apps and games are also priced higher, sometimes several dollars more for similar apps/games, or apps with less functionality. This is definitely a result of MS requiring developers to pay a fee.. fewer apps, and higher prices.

      About the OS.. I dislike the large text in some instances, which requires you to scroll to see things that should/could easily be displayed on a single page like in the email app. Multi-tasking is poorly implemented. You're limited to running 6 apps in memory, and if you re-launch those apps from the start menu instead of the multi-tasking window, the app opens a second time, which means you don't restore your previous session and you now have a second instantiation of that app taking up one of your six multi-tasking slots. Notifications are also annoying and poorly implemented.. they should just steal the notification setup from Android like iOS did because they both have it right now. But thats just like, my opinion man.
      Apart from games, I don't see any app I'm missing. All the big names are there. If it's not, there's usually half a dozen others that can do the same job.

      Agreed on the MS fee for developers, it's dumb and it drives up the prices of apps.

      I don't mind the big text but I get your opinion on that one.

      I can't see any need to run more than 6 apps at a time especially with the fast UI where you can open one in seconds.

      Running the same app twice does NOT take two app slots. They DO resume on relaunch. I don't know where you're taking your info because I just tried it here and now.

      I don't see what's wrong with the notifications, they're pretty simple and you just have to press them to go to the app most of the times. But again that is my preference.
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    22. Member Art Vandelay's Avatar
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      02-03-2012 09:43 AM #47
      Quote Originally Posted by Jesse View Post
      First off, there's a lack of apps, and the available apps are frequently functionally deficient compared to Android or iOS counterparts. Apps and games are also priced higher, sometimes several dollars more for similar apps/games, or apps with less functionality. This is definitely a result of MS requiring developers to pay a fee.. fewer apps, and higher prices.
      I was going to port one of my free Android apps to WP7 and go from there, but stopped when I saw the developer agreement. $99 for a really tiny platform is a lot, but $99 every year is not acceptable for my indie stuff that I do for fun. I don't mind developing on a Windows PC, but can you do it with the free version of Visual Studio? I never bothered to find out. Android proved that indie developers can build a platform, and paying customers will follow, but Microsoft apparently didn't learn that lesson.

      At work, we were thinking about targeting the WP platform (we have one of those raving lunatic fanboys), but the market is just way too small. There's kind of a chicken/egg situation happening.
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    23. Member chickenium's Avatar
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      02-03-2012 09:58 AM #48
      Quote Originally Posted by Art Vandelay View Post
      I was going to port one of my free Android apps to WP7 and go from there, but stopped when I saw the developer agreement. $99 for a really tiny platform is a lot, but $99 every year is not acceptable for my indie stuff that I do for fun. I don't mind developing on a Windows PC, but can you do it with the free version of Visual Studio? I never bothered to find out. Android proved that indie developers can build a platform, and paying customers will follow, but Microsoft apparently didn't learn that lesson.

      At work, we were thinking about targeting the WP platform (we have one of those raving lunatic fanboys), but the market is just way too small. There's kind of a chicken/egg situation happening.
      Yes, they totally need to waive that fee. Support starts with developers IMO.
      **** JUST GOT CHAEL

    24. 02-03-2012 10:42 AM #49
      Quote Originally Posted by chickenium View Post
      Apart from games, I don't see any app I'm missing. All the big names are there. If it's not, there's usually half a dozen others that can do the same job.

      Agreed on the MS fee for developers, it's dumb and it drives up the prices of apps.

      I don't mind the big text but I get your opinion on that one.

      I can't see any need to run more than 6 apps at a time especially with the fast UI where you can open one in seconds.

      Running the same app twice does NOT take two app slots. They DO resume on relaunch. I don't know where you're taking your info because I just tried it here and now.

      I don't see what's wrong with the notifications, they're pretty simple and you just have to press them to go to the app most of the times. But again that is my preference.
      It may not be missing major apps, but some of those apps are missing functionality, like push notifications.

      It's lacking a central place to view all notifications. Once the semi-annoying notification bar disappears from the top, you have to access that notification again individually.

      As for multi-tasking, if you re-launch an app from the start menu, the app itself re-launches instead of resumes. I guess saying another instantiation launches was incorrect. I meant the app will launch over again instead of resuming even though it was stored in memory. To resume, you have to use the multi-tasking menu. Am I correct in saying this?

    25. Member chickenium's Avatar
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      02-03-2012 10:59 AM #50
      Quote Originally Posted by Jesse View Post
      It may not be missing major apps, but some of those apps are missing functionality, like push notifications.

      It's lacking a central place to view all notifications. Once the semi-annoying notification bar disappears from the top, you have to access that notification again individually.

      As for multi-tasking, if you re-launch an app from the start menu, the app itself re-launches instead of resumes. I guess saying another instantiation launches was incorrect. I meant the app will launch over again instead of resuming even though it was stored in memory. To resume, you have to use the multi-tasking menu. Am I correct in saying this?
      Yes I just tried it and it restarts the app. I had never noticed it before but it's pretty dumb to not resume.
      **** JUST GOT CHAEL

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