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    Thread: The ONE & ONLY 2012 Politics/Election Thread

    1. Member Tornado2dr's Avatar
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      01-23-2012 03:45 PM #126
      Quote Originally Posted by SOAR View Post
      We don't want OT to become "the politics forum" this election season. It's as simple as that. If you guys can't have an intelligent discussion in here about the presidential election without flaming each then there will be no election discussion in OT. Period.
      ha. you used intelligent discussion and OT in the same sentence. That's rich.

      Really though. Personal attacks bad, attacks on candidates good...amirite?

    2. Moderator SOAR's Avatar
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      01-23-2012 03:49 PM #127
      Quote Originally Posted by Tornado2dr View Post
      Personal attacks bad, attacks on candidates good...amirite?
      Unless that OT member is running for office, then both are ok.

    3. Member demonmk2's Avatar
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      01-23-2012 05:34 PM #128
      Quote Originally Posted by 20DYNAMITE07 View Post
      FTFY.
      you got me. me trying to be a smart a$$ turned out to me being a dumb a$$ for improper grammar.
      oh well, atleast I got a laugh out of it.
      Any VWs made after 92 are usually only good for drive train donors.

    4. Member demonmk2's Avatar
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      01-23-2012 05:46 PM #129
      Quote Originally Posted by Zombiee313 View Post
      Good luck to the Mods on actually being able to keep control of this thread

      That being said I will be the first one to go on record and predict that Obama will not win the 2012 Election....

      even though I'm not a Fan of his (even though I did vote for him in 08) I would not got that far. ALLOT! can happen between now and Nov. and all it take is one 24hr news cycle.

      republicans(voters) are not behind anyone yet even though it's clear who the establishment are behind and it's funny how the voters want something different from what the establishment wants (mainly looking out for themselves)
      With the republicans bashing each other they're doing Obama's dirty work....for free! but at the same time all the dirt is getting and hopefully when a nominee is selected that person and Obama can have real debates on the issues instead of bashing each others character for the rest of the election season.
      but we all know that's probably whats going to happen.
      Any VWs made after 92 are usually only good for drive train donors.

    5. Member rsj0714's Avatar
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      01-23-2012 05:48 PM #130
      How about that pipeline?

      Every other politician I have heard was in support of it going through, except Obama, why?
      Quote Originally Posted by Dave Zero View Post
      Station wagons are for moms and Europe.

    6. Member demonmk2's Avatar
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      01-23-2012 06:33 PM #131
      something to do with Nebraska and the pipeline being rerouted around a fresh water source or something. but it's an election year so it will be used on both sides for political agendas while as usual it's people like us on this forum who get the consequences of there decisions and has no effect on them.

      I do think we should drill more here....however! I think if they're going to do that they also need to make recycling laws more strict, especially with aluminum and plastics. if all recyclable plastics were recycled like they should be you could see a huge difference in oil prices going down over time and in turn gas prices would go down. and it could be profitable to businesses.
      I hate to say this about Americans but we have taken are for granted our convenience with consumption with not using it responsibly (lazy more than anything).
      I'll use my place of employment for an example. We had this huge long container that we only put cardboard in and the company would pay to have it removed and the disposal company did away with it (probably made another profit turning it into a recycle plant.
      now they have this other company who specializes in recyclables that pickup the card board (compacted) and every quarter the company (my work) gets a check.
      it's just getting people to understand what they can do and in turn would actually benefit them and everyone else.
      (I'm not an environmental cook either)
      Any VWs made after 92 are usually only good for drive train donors.

    7. Member rsj0714's Avatar
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      01-23-2012 06:46 PM #132
      Quote Originally Posted by demonmk2 View Post
      (I'm not an environmental cook either)
      Those are all good points, I am no environmental whacko either, but I can do a little better by reusing plastic bottles as much as possible. I just use filtered water out of the tap and refill used bottles.

      There are downsides to drawing the pipeline, but they are far outweighed by the dangers of importing oil on vessels. If we can't meet an agreement with Canada, it will be a kick in the nuts of a close Allie, and also a dumb move all around.
      Quote Originally Posted by Dave Zero View Post
      Station wagons are for moms and Europe.

    8. Member demonmk2's Avatar
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      01-23-2012 06:47 PM #133
      Quote Originally Posted by demonmk2 View Post
      is that it?
      can't answer or debate it so you start talk'n sh*t.

      wow, you are a smart guy.
      I detract this statement, it was sarcasm and some new things have come to light.
      in another thread he (barry2952) stated he pays 29k a yr in health insurance!!
      that must mean he's gotta be very smart to pull a job to pay for that coverage.
      I too know what it's like to have a loved one to be a victim of cancer but she couldn't beat it.
      I wish the best for you and your wife and I hope and pray she can beat it.

      (but I'll still disagree with you on some other things)
      Any VWs made after 92 are usually only good for drive train donors.

    9. Member barry2952's Avatar
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      01-23-2012 06:50 PM #134
      Quote Originally Posted by demonmk2 View Post
      I detract this statement, it was sarcasm and some new things have come to light.
      in another thread he (barry2952) stated he pays 29k a yr in health insurance!!
      that must mean he's gotta be very smart to pull a job to pay for that coverage.
      I too know what it's like to have a loved one to be a victim of cancer but she couldn't beat it.
      I wish the best for you and your wife and I hope and pray she can beat it.

      (but I'll still disagree with you on some other things)
      Thank you.
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      01-23-2012 10:49 PM #135
      Quote Originally Posted by winstonsmith84 View Post
      Tax? I don't mind paying state sales tax. Every time a see a pothole, a school that is falling down or a canceled essential state program, I remind myself why.
      Quote Originally Posted by Tornado2dr View Post
      535 members of congress plus 1 pres screwing us all the time...that's dirty pirate hooker level gang rape.

    11. Member pentaxshooter's Avatar
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      01-23-2012 10:53 PM #136
      Oh ****, I just found this thread
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    12. Member rsj0714's Avatar
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      01-23-2012 10:59 PM #137
      Quote Originally Posted by pentaxshooter View Post
      Oh ****, I just found this thread
      I am so glad.
      So, since Huntsman is gone I won;t endorse Romney, when is paul going to be in NC again? I would love to talk to him.
      Quote Originally Posted by Dave Zero View Post
      Station wagons are for moms and Europe.

    13. Member pentaxshooter's Avatar
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      01-23-2012 11:05 PM #138
      Quote Originally Posted by rsj0714 View Post
      I am so glad.
      So, since Huntsman is gone I won;t endorse Romney, when is paul going to be in NC again? I would love to talk to him.
      Probably not for a while, to be honest. NC has a late primary and I can't forsee any stops prior to that, but I could be wrong. His last visit to the state was for a Walter Jones fundraiser/bbq held down in Greenville! You missed out, I guess! I had planned to go, but had to cancel last minute.
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    14. Member rsj0714's Avatar
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      01-23-2012 11:15 PM #139
      Quote Originally Posted by pentaxshooter View Post
      Probably not for a while, to be honest. NC has a late primary and I can't forsee any stops prior to that, but I could be wrong. His last visit to the state was for a Walter Jones fundraiser/bbq held down in Greenville! You missed out, I guess! I had planned to go, but had to cancel last minute.
      To be honest I have been far away from Paul in every aspect with my support for jon. I have recently started studying a bit more on Paul and I do consider myself an independent.

      Romney is trying to appeal to a class that he is so far from, and Gingrich is set up to be a McCain repeat.

      I will support Paul, but I do hope he reclaims some of his statements considering we hold about a quarter of the worlds gold and about a third of the wealth. So the gold standard would be great, but as of now is less than ideal.
      Quote Originally Posted by Dave Zero View Post
      Station wagons are for moms and Europe.

    15. Member pentaxshooter's Avatar
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      01-23-2012 11:19 PM #140
      Quote Originally Posted by rsj0714 View Post

      I will support Paul, but I do hope he reclaims some of his statements considering we hold about a quarter of the worlds gold and about a third of the wealth. So the gold standard would be great, but as of now is less than ideal.
      He doesn't want a gold standard if it is mandated by the government. He'd rathter allow the market to dictate what backs money

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      01-23-2012 11:19 PM #141
      Quote Originally Posted by butterface View Post
      He would. And even many/most of the pundits think so too. Debate is an unteachable skill* in that an individual's substance can lack while his confidence still persuades. Newt exudes said confidence. Obama, on the other hand, doesn't have the patience for point to point combat and improvised rhetoric. He is a fantastic orator - no doubt - but only in the speech-giving sense.

      *One can be taught the principles of debate, but still fail miserably in its execution.
      It's really interesting that this is such an ingrained belief among the Republican electorate even though it's obviously and demonstrably false.

      OMG TELEPROMPTERZ!!!!

    17. Member zhenya00's Avatar
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      01-24-2012 02:37 AM #142
      Well, it's official. Romney has paid $6.2 million in taxes on $45 million in earnings in 2010 and 2011 -- a 13.77% tax rate.

      I bet his gardeners pay more than that.
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    18. Banned butterface's Avatar
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      01-24-2012 04:02 AM #143
      Quote Originally Posted by MixmasterNash View Post
      It's really interesting that this is such an ingrained belief among the Republican electorate even though it's obviously and demonstrably false.

      OMG TELEPROMPTERZ!!!!
      I didn't mention a teleprompter. Obama gives very good speeches, teleprompter or no. But, as many pundits on both sides have stated, Newt is the better debater.

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      01-24-2012 08:49 AM #144
      Quote Originally Posted by butterface View Post
      I didn't mention a teleprompter. Obama gives very good speeches, teleprompter or no. But, as many pundits on both sides have stated, Newt is the better debater.
      I believe Newt has believes that, as does the Republican base, but I do not think it reflects reality. Newt is great with the red meat: bashing the MSM, threatening Iran, etc., which is what he should be doing in the primary. But the general election debates are a whole 'nother beast where the candidates have to come across as reasoned, calm, and inclusive to appeal to the broad middle. Have you ever heard Newt do that?

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      01-24-2012 09:04 AM #145
      Quote Originally Posted by MixmasterNash View Post
      I believe Newt has believes that, as does the Republican base, but I do not think it reflects reality. Newt is great with the red meat: bashing the MSM, threatening Iran, etc., which is what he should be doing in the primary. But the general election debates are a whole 'nother beast where the candidates have to come across as reasoned, calm, and inclusive to appeal to the broad middle. Have you ever heard Newt do that?
      Only during the Clinton administration.
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    21. Banned butterface's Avatar
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      01-24-2012 09:10 AM #146
      Quote Originally Posted by MixmasterNash View Post
      I believe Newt has believes that, as does the Republican base, but I do not think it reflects reality. Newt is great with the red meat: bashing the MSM, threatening Iran, etc., which is what he should be doing in the primary. But the general election debates are a whole 'nother beast where the candidates have to come across as reasoned, calm, and inclusive to appeal to the broad middle. Have you ever heard Newt do that?
      All true, but red meat is what undecided debate watchers want to see. Sure, the ideologues on either side will be screaming at their TV sets if a candidate strongly emphasizes a half-truth or takes a cheap shot, but the 'middle of the roaders' will be making judgments based on the 'persuasive performance' (re - 'emotion'). You're particularly spot on about one thing - these are the folks who decide elections. But they typically eat their meat bloody.

      Obama wouldn't do well against Newt in a debate not because he is too civil, but because he doesn't command the 'on the fly' rhetoric like Newt does. Obama is a sermon giver - a damn good one of course - but he appears, to me at least, to abhor the nit picking of back and forth retort. Not saying he isn't intellectually capable - just saying he isn't as good because his heart isn't into it.

      Many pundits, even Matthews, appear to concede this.

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      01-24-2012 09:11 AM #147
      Quote Originally Posted by 2.FOH!! View Post
      Only during the Clinton administration.
      You're kidding, right?


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      01-24-2012 09:13 AM #148
      Quote Originally Posted by MixmasterNash View Post
      You're kidding, right?

      No I'm completely serious (pointless cartoon aside).

      Read the Contract with America.
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      01-24-2012 09:19 AM #149
      Quote Originally Posted by butterface View Post
      All true, but red meat is what undecided debate watchers want to see. Sure, the ideologues on either side will be screaming at their TV sets if a candidate strongly emphasizes a half-truth or takes a cheap shot, but the 'middle of the roaders' will be making judgments based on the 'persuasive performance' (re - 'emotion'). You're particularly spot on about one thing - these are the folks who decide elections. But they typically eat their meat bloody.

      Obama wouldn't do well against Newt in a debate not because he is too civil, but because he doesn't command the 'on the fly' rhetoric like Newt does. Obama is a sermon giver - a damn good one of course - but he appears, to me at least, to abhor the nit picking of back and forth retort. Not saying he isn't intellectually capable - just saying he isn't as good because his heart isn't into it.

      Many pundits, even Matthews, appear to concede this.
      1) Matthews is a well known idiot.
      2) Red meat does not work on independents. Palin is a great example of inspiring the base and turning off the middle.
      3) Obama is an excellent debater, most notably demonstrated by his visit with congressional Republicans, he just hasn't had many opportunities to demonstrate it.

      Anyway, I'm not sure that it matters much given that Newt will be crushed for other reasons, probably in the primary, definitely in the general.

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      01-24-2012 09:21 AM #150
      Quote Originally Posted by zhenya00 View Post
      Well, it's official. Romney has paid $6.2 million in taxes on $45 million in earnings in 2010 and 2011 -- a 13.77% tax rate.

      I bet his gardeners pay more than that.
      Capital gains are given preferential treatment theoretically due to him risking the capital and potentially bettering the economy in the process. Paul wants to repeal capital gains taxes completely, so people like Romney would pay closer to 0% in income taxes.

      It's somewhat ironic to me that the same people who want to encourage economic investment by giving preferential treatment to capital gains also typically want to shift towards lower income tax and higher consumption tax. Consumption tax taxes consumer spending, which is the largest component of the economy. If it was all about the economy, then how does this jive? It just seems self-serving to the politicians making millions per year that promote it.

      To some the point is that he paid $6.2m and not the $0 that so many Americans pay. I, however, happen to appreciate the principles of progressive taxation.

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