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    Thread: The ONE & ONLY 2012 Politics/Election Thread

    1. Member
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      05-27-2012 05:38 PM #2826
      Quote Originally Posted by petesell View Post
      probably? how about worst president in american history?! you could make a very strong case for that given the combination of both foreign & domestic disasters. his response to hurrican katrina victims was nothing short of shameful. economically, you could say that similar laissez faire policies of herbert hoover both led to & fed the great depression, but hoover never had the whole killing hundreds of thousands of people over false pretense thing. possibly worse than that are his supreme court appointees, who've in some orwellian fashion somehow equated unlimited political spending by a financial construct to "free speech". of everything done under bush's watch, the citizens united decision will probably go the furthest in destroying representative democracy. if you thought money in politics was out of control the last few elections cycles, watch what happens in 2012.

      harding had about as corrupt an administration as there's ever been, and nixon really was a crook, but neither approaches the cluster**** that was the bush presidency.
      Bush's response to Katrina has more to do with the state elected government (specifically Kathleen Blanco) than it did with Bush. Not defending Bush, but LA literally made it next to impossible for Federal supplies to get to the local workers and thus really bottlenecked the recovery and search. Blanco later admitted that the state response and assistance to the Federal level was shameful and she took full responsibility. Congress later did an investigation and discovered that the state government made the Federal government jump through hoops and rings to get aid and support in. There's a reason Blanco was not re-elected.

      Aside from that, I agree with everything else you said

    2. Member lojasmo's Avatar
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      05-28-2012 10:05 AM #2827
      Quote Originally Posted by Egilbe View Post
      Probably the worst President since James Buchanan
      FTFY.
      Quote Originally Posted by internetmeme
      Bush's response to Katrina has more to do with the state elected government (specifically Kathleen Blanco) than it did with Bush. Not defending Bush, but LA literally made it next to impossible for Federal supplies to get to the local workers and thus really bottlenecked the recovery and search

      Untrue.

      You have been manipulated by Karl Rove and Fox News.
      Last edited by lojasmo; 05-28-2012 at 10:22 AM.

    3. Member pentaxshooter's Avatar
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      05-28-2012 11:27 AM #2828
      As we pause to remember those who fought and died, let us not, let us never, romanticize war or its participants. War remains the essence of the state and a consequence of the belief in its necessity, omnipotence, and glorification. Orwell said that if one wanted to understand the essence of the Party, imagine a boot stomping a human face forever. If you want to understand the essence of the state, it is the dead and mangled bodies of innocent young men and women, both those dragooned into "serving" and those at the wrong end of the gun, bomber, missile or drone. Let us today remember both the former and the latter.

      There is nothing romantic about murdering innocents so that politicians can gain power and the military-industrial complex can enrich itself with the blood of those innocents. The essence of war, and therefore the state, is the family whose son will never have a future because he died because some politician thought other people's children should never have a future. War represents the very opposite of the vision of peaceful social cooperation the defines the classical liberal vision.

      The politicians and their corporatist sycophants who tell us the lies that lead to war are the real killers here and let us use this day to remember that the real battle is against THEM, not the innocents that empire continues to destroy. - Steve Horwitz
      Sure got some feathers ruffled on my FB today.
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      05-28-2012 11:54 AM #2829
      I'm almost tempted to post that on Facebook today, Pentax. The military, more than everyone else, knows the true cost of war. The military isn't a fan.
      Quote Originally Posted by winstonsmith84 View Post
      Tax? I don't mind paying state sales tax. Every time a see a pothole, a school that is falling down or a canceled essential state program, I remind myself why.
      Quote Originally Posted by Tornado2dr View Post
      535 members of congress plus 1 pres screwing us all the time...that's dirty pirate hooker level gang rape.

    5. Member pentaxshooter's Avatar
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      05-28-2012 12:05 PM #2830
      Quote Originally Posted by Egilbe View Post
      I'm almost tempted to post that on Facebook today, Pentax. The military, more than everyone else, knows the true cost of war. The military isn't a fan.
      "Only the dead have seen the end of war" - Plato

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    6. 05-29-2012 03:15 AM #2831
      Quote Originally Posted by pentaxshooter View Post
      Sure got some feathers ruffled on my FB today.
      There are two ways to use Facebook:

      a) to accumulate acquaintanceship-quality "friends"
      b) wheat from the chaff

      Posting anything involving critical thinking usually involves the latter, although most will simply filter a person's posts rather than drop them. Facebook has adopted filtering mechanisms as far as I know that also tend to put the typical pet and small child miracles at the fore, while obfuscating politics.

      I remember when Facebook was a hook-up site for college kids, with options like "anything I can get".

    7. Member 2.0T_Convert's Avatar
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      05-30-2012 01:38 PM #2832
      Per CNN Romney has unoffically reached the 1144 delegate landmark.
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      05-30-2012 01:57 PM #2833
      Quote Originally Posted by 2.0T_Convert View Post
      Per CNN Romney has unoffically reached the 1144 delegate landmark.

    9. Member Mike!'s Avatar
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      05-30-2012 02:17 PM #2834
      And Romney's with Donald Trump at fundraiser while Trump is still beating the Birther drum. Should there be guilt-by-association for Romney for not adequately distancing himself from Trump on this?

      It's a bit of commentary on the importance of money in getting elected that both candidates will pal around with celebrities with fringe political positions simply to keep the money coming in. Granted there is a Birther voter demographic that Romney needs to not lose votes from, but by definition I don't think they'd be voting for Obama instead.

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      05-30-2012 02:25 PM #2835
      Quote Originally Posted by Egilbe View Post
      I'm almost tempted to post that on Facebook today, Pentax. The military, more than everyone else, knows the true cost of war. The military isn't a fan.
      bull****

      maybe the grunts on the ground, but the military as a whole LOVES war. politicians love it even more.
      Quote Originally Posted by kwik!gti
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    11. Member 2.0T_Convert's Avatar
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      05-30-2012 02:56 PM #2836
      Quote Originally Posted by Mike! View Post
      And Romney's with Donald Trump at fundraiser while Trump is still beating the Birther drum. Should there be guilt-by-association for Romney for not adequately distancing himself from Trump on this?

      It's a bit of commentary on the importance of money in getting elected that both candidates will pal around with celebrities with fringe political positions simply to keep the money coming in. Granted there is a Birther voter demographic that Romney needs to not lose votes from, but by definition I don't think they'd be voting for Obama instead.
      CNN has the same opinion on Romney buying his spot.

      "Tonight, after six years of trying and millions of dollars spent, and after a year of tepid support against one of the weakest fields in history, Mitt Romney has finally secured enough delegates to become the Republican Party's presidential nominee," wrote Wasserman Schultz, the chairwoman of the Democratic National Committee. "Romney may have finally gained enough delegates to become the nominee, but what's been truly remarkable about his path to the nomination is how much damage he's left in his wake as he enters the general election."
      CNN.com
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      05-30-2012 03:09 PM #2837
      Quote Originally Posted by Mike! View Post
      And Romney's with Donald Trump at fundraiser while Trump is still beating the Birther drum. Should there be guilt-by-association for Romney for not adequately distancing himself from Trump on this?
      it's hard for me to understand what type of person 'looks up' to someone like trump. he's hard on the eyes (nice faux orange tan!), not particularly intelligent or worldly, got his money from his daddy, and he's a serial narcissist. i don't think the purple state independents romney needs to win a presidential election are influenced by a person like this, and the birther absurdity only makes him sound ridiculous. is there a poll in the country that makes an endorsement from this guy a positive?

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      05-30-2012 03:14 PM #2838
      Quote Originally Posted by petesell View Post
      it's hard for me to understand what type of person 'looks up' to someone like trump. he's hard on the eyes (nice faux orange tan!), not particularly intelligent or worldly, got his money from his daddy, and he's a serial narcissist. i don't think the purple state independents romney needs to win a presidential election are influenced by a person like this, and the birther absurdity only makes him sound ridiculous. is there a poll in the country that makes an endorsement from this guy a positive?
      If his head gets any bigger his wig will pop off.
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    14. Senior Member Sporin's Avatar
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      05-30-2012 03:29 PM #2839
      The Pauilites are still insistings Romeny hasn't clinched, that even the bound delegates don't have to vote for Romney at the Convention, and that Paul will still hadidly win the nomination in Tampa because Paul supporters have taken up all the delegate positions and plan to ignore the popular vote.



      http://www.city-data.com/forum/elect...omination.html

    15. Member cockerpunk's Avatar
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      05-30-2012 03:32 PM #2840
      Quote Originally Posted by petesell View Post
      it's hard for me to understand what type of person 'looks up' to someone like trump. he's hard on the eyes (nice faux orange tan!), not particularly intelligent or worldly, got his money from his daddy, and he's a serial narcissist. i don't think the purple state independents romney needs to win a presidential election are influenced by a person like this, and the birther absurdity only makes him sound ridiculous. is there a poll in the country that makes an endorsement from this guy a positive?
      not only that but he isn't even a good businessman, he has declared bankruptcy like 6 times.
      Quote Originally Posted by kwik!gti
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    16. Member Mike!'s Avatar
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      05-30-2012 03:39 PM #2841
      Quote Originally Posted by cockerpunk View Post
      not only that but he isn't even a good businessman, he has declared bankruptcy like 6 times.
      Well, collecting cumulative billions from corporations you run, own, or are on the board for in salary and bonuses still makes you a 'shrewd' businessman in the sense of personal interest. Some of those businesses doing poorly and filing for bankruptcy protection is separate from that. I suppose it still means he's not a 'good' businessman.

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      05-30-2012 05:01 PM #2842
      Quote Originally Posted by Sporin View Post
      The Pauilites are still insistings Romeny hasn't clinched, that even the bound delegates don't have to vote for Romney at the Convention, and that Paul will still hadidly win the nomination in Tampa because Paul supporters have taken up all the delegate positions and plan to ignore the popular vote.



      http://www.city-data.com/forum/elect...omination.html
      I love it.

      So basically according to some supporters Ron Paul is only going to win the nomination because he had a handful of supports take advantage of the delegate process.... basically: Ron Paul 2012: GOP Candidate who only really got 12% of the popular vote.
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    18. Member pentaxshooter's Avatar
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      05-30-2012 05:41 PM #2843
      Quote Originally Posted by Sporin View Post
      The Pauilites are still insistings Romeny hasn't clinched, that even the bound delegates don't have to vote for Romney at the Convention, and that Paul will still hadidly win the nomination in Tampa because Paul supporters have taken up all the delegate positions and plan to ignore the popular vote.



      http://www.city-data.com/forum/elect...omination.html
      The "bound" delegates aren't really bound, that is a fact, as per a statement from RNC lawyers. That being said, I reserve judgment till Tampa.
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    19. Senior Member Sporin's Avatar
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      05-30-2012 05:49 PM #2844
      Quote Originally Posted by 2.0T_Convert View Post
      I love it.

      So basically according to some supporters Ron Paul is only going to win the nomination because he had a handful of supports take advantage of the delegate process.... basically: Ron Paul 2012: GOP Candidate who only really got 12% of the popular vote.
      "They" insist that the projected delegate counts that everyone is using are a sham by the "Main Stream Media" and that the Romney/GOP establishment machine (tin foil hat time) has pulle doff an every-state voting cheat so large that Ron Paul has acutally won the popular vote in many states as well.
      Last edited by Sporin; 05-30-2012 at 05:53 PM.

    20. Senior Member Sporin's Avatar
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      05-30-2012 05:53 PM #2845
      Quote Originally Posted by pentaxshooter View Post
      The "bound" delegates aren't really bound, that is a fact, as per a statement from RNC lawyers. That being said, I reserve judgment till Tampa.
      I made a whole thread on that forum where I vowed to stop arguing and trying to reason with the loons and told them to get out there and make it happen! If "they" are so sure that they can pull it off, then make it so! Should be no problem, right? Some of those guys are utterly, completely convinced they are right so why fight it?

      Quote Originally Posted by Sporin View Post
      So I am firmly on record as thinking Ron Paul's whole "Delegates" strategy is bunk. i think his supporters have built it up in their minds to such mythological proportions that they actually think winning delegates in a few small states will get them the nod. That somehow "infiltrating" is better then actually WINNING these state races. That these supposed "Constitutional Patriots" think that the popular vote is something to be subverted, and bypassed, based on their own tin-foil-hat rantings about "cheating."

      Whatever. Everyone is allowed their own theories and opinions.

      But the one thing I think is missing in all these discussions is that I would actually be FASCINATED if they pulled it off. I think it would be the most significant election event in US history.

      I think the IMPLOSION this would cause in the GOP would be deeply interesting, historically catastrophic.

      I already predict that the President will win reelection in a close race against Romney. But against Ron Paul? After pulling a delegate coup in Tampa against the GOP establishment? I think you'd see Ron Paul lose in landslide numbers that will set records.

      But let's see it, make it happen Paulbots, bring on the show!

    21. Member cockerpunk's Avatar
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      05-30-2012 05:57 PM #2846
      GOP will never allow ron paul to be there candidate. they will always come up with a reason he won't be it. fair, unfair, biased, unbiased ... they simply aren't going to let it happen.
      Quote Originally Posted by kwik!gti
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    22. Member 2.0T_Convert's Avatar
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      05-30-2012 06:28 PM #2847
      Quote Originally Posted by Sporin View Post
      "They" insist that the projected delegate counts that everyone is using are a sham by the "Main Stream Media" and that the Romney/GOP establishment machine (tin foil hat time) has pulle doff an every-state voting cheat so large that Ron Paul has acutally won the popular vote in many states as well.
      So to extend that logic then entire media complex along with hundreds of other publication sources are all part of a giant conspiracy meant to keep us mass citizens in the dark of the fact that the majority of this country clearly are screaming for Ron Paul. Oh and of course any polls on websites like this are clearly meaningless as well since you, me, and dozens of others must all the plants from the 2-party conspiracy agency.


      If Ron Paul wins the nomination then IMO it is a clear sign the system really is broken because the popular vote has clearly been swept under the rug of a little understood political process. In other words Ron Paul will win by the very underhanded corrupt methods his advocates accuse others of using.
      Last edited by 2.0T_Convert; 05-30-2012 at 06:30 PM.
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      05-30-2012 06:53 PM #2848
      Quote Originally Posted by pentaxshooter View Post
      The "bound" delegates aren't really bound, that is a fact, as per a statement from RNC lawyers. That being said, I reserve judgment till Tampa.
      Exactly. This is far from over like the media would like to insist. According to the media Ron Paul still has not won a state but the facts are he has won quite a few. It is Ironic that the safeguards that were put in to keep the people from taking over the process are now going to be what put the people in control of the process. It makes me giggle

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      05-30-2012 07:21 PM #2849
      Quote Originally Posted by TIGninja View Post
      Exactly. This is far from over like the media would like to insist. According to the media Ron Paul still has not won a state but the facts are he has won quite a few. It is Ironic that the safeguards that were put in to keep the people from taking over the process are now going to be what put the people in control of the process. It makes me giggle
      is there a genre of political nutters you don't subscribe to?
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      05-30-2012 07:54 PM #2850
      I pledge to paypal $20 to a Ron Paul supporters fund if Ron Paul wins the nomination. Anyone care to bet?

      We can start a CL pool
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