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    Thread: The ONE & ONLY 2012 Politics/Election Thread

    1. Member pentaxshooter's Avatar
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      04-12-2012 11:21 PM #2026
      Quote Originally Posted by Fritz27 View Post
      Bin Laden was just a free market actor. He wasn't that bad of a guy, he didn't use the government, he did it all via his own funds. Individuals in the free market get results. Can you imagine the government bloat to pull off 9/11 or the USS Cole?
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    2. Member pentaxshooter's Avatar
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      04-12-2012 11:23 PM #2027
      Quote Originally Posted by VarianceVQ View Post
      Oh, that makes what you said much less stupid.
      What I said was not stupid, just reality.
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    3. Member lojasmo's Avatar
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      04-12-2012 11:25 PM #2028
      Quote Originally Posted by Fritz27 View Post
      Bin Laden was just a free market actor. He wasn't that bad of a guy, he didn't use the government, he did it all via his own funds. Individuals in the free market get results. Can you imagine the government bloat to pull off 9/11 or the USS Cole?

      Hoped for snark...left disappointed, maybe?

    4. Member lojasmo's Avatar
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      04-12-2012 11:26 PM #2029
      Quote Originally Posted by pentaxshooter View Post
      What I said was not stupid, just reality.
      Actually stupid. You just lack the competence to recognize it.

    5. Member pentaxshooter's Avatar
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      04-12-2012 11:28 PM #2030
      Quote Originally Posted by lojasmo View Post
      Huh. Funny, since combat operations in Iraq was actually ended under Obama. Certainly would not have under McCain (nor would ending Bin Laden have)
      http://www.salon.com/2011/12/17/no_t..._leaving_iraq/
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    6. Member pentaxshooter's Avatar
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      04-12-2012 11:29 PM #2031
      Quote Originally Posted by lojasmo View Post
      Actually stupid. You just lack the competence to recognize it.
      Whether or not they explicity enjoy it or not is besides the point. It occurs and increases either way.
      Last edited by pentaxshooter; 04-12-2012 at 11:31 PM.
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      04-13-2012 02:17 AM #2032
      Quote Originally Posted by Fritz27 View Post
      Bin Laden was just a free market actor. He wasn't that bad of a guy, he didn't use the government, he did it all via his own funds. Individuals in the free market get results. Can you imagine the government bloat to pull off 9/11 or the USS Cole?

    8. 04-13-2012 02:22 AM #2033
      Quote Originally Posted by A.Wilder View Post
      It's funny how mad you get when you get called out on your BS
      As if this is the first time he's said something wacky against gays...

    9. Senior Member A.Wilder's Avatar
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      04-13-2012 06:43 AM #2034
      Quote Originally Posted by Fritz27 View Post
      Bin Laden was just a free market actor. He wasn't that bad of a guy, he didn't use the government, he did it all via his own funds. Individuals in the free market get results. Can you imagine the government bloat to pull off 9/11 or the USS Cole?
      Quote Originally Posted by koidragon1980 View Post
      If Jesus is your pilot, then irony is your vehicle.

    10. Member Mike!'s Avatar
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      04-13-2012 09:06 AM #2035
      Quote Originally Posted by pentaxshooter View Post
      Soldiers attached to an embassy in a volatile country we only recently left is logical. There are soldiers with the State Department in every country in the world we have normalized relations with.

      And I thought you liked private security forces?

    11. Member Tornado2dr's Avatar
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      04-13-2012 09:29 AM #2036
      Quote Originally Posted by Randall173 View Post
      Good luck to the Mods on actually being able to keep control of this thread

      That being said I will be the first one to go on record and predict that Obama will not win the 2012 Election....
      It's almost sixty pages long, you aren't the first, and as a realistic voter who isn't too much of an obama FAN, nor any type of fan for the only other options - I think you're wrong.

    12. Member pentaxshooter's Avatar
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      04-13-2012 09:58 AM #2037
      Quote Originally Posted by A.Wilder View Post
      I, too, would have laughed. Except it wasn't even a well executed jab

      Quote Originally Posted by Mike! View Post
      Soldiers attached to an embassy in a volatile country we only recently left is logical. There are soldiers with the State Department in every country in the world we have normalized relations with.
      Yeah, and that's an issue
      And I thought you liked private security forces?
      Support for private security forces does not equate to support for private security forces being used and paid for by governments.
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      04-13-2012 02:34 PM #2038
      Quote Originally Posted by Mike! View Post
      Regardless, I think if meaningful reduction in military spending and war involvement is a top issue for you, it's far more likely to get implemented under an Obama White House and Democratic Congress than under the only likely alternative, a Romney White House and Boehner/McConnell Congress.
      Maybe so, but US history contradicts that line of thinking. DOD spend reductions are far more about that current economic environments and the timing of conficts than they are about GOP vs. Dem majority. It's a bipartisan effrt for sure. And even the most stringent anti-war presidents tend to become moderate on the subject once introduced to the Pentagon grind.

      FWIW, some of the greatest US military spend reductions came under GOP W-H leadership. Eisenhower and Nixon cut DOD spended by ~ 30% each after Korea and Vietnam...and Ike was a lifelong Republican and 5 star general.

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      04-13-2012 03:00 PM #2039
      Quote Originally Posted by tbvvw View Post
      Maybe so, but US history contradicts that line of thinking. DOD spend reductions are far more about that current economic environments and the timing of conficts than they are about GOP vs. Dem majority. It's a bipartisan effrt for sure. And even the most stringent anti-war presidents tend to become moderate on the subject once introduced to the Pentagon grind.

      FWIW, some of the greatest US military spend reductions came under GOP W-H leadership. Eisenhower and Nixon cut DOD spended by ~ 30% each after Korea and Vietnam...and Ike was a lifelong Republican and 5 star general.
      I appreciate the history, but I'm not sure it's germaine to my point about the current candidates in this election cycle. It's great what they were able to accomplish back then, but I did specifically mention Obama's views versus the views of Romney, Boehner, and McConnell. From the latter three, I've only heard objection to Obama's proposed defense cuts.

    15. Member pentaxshooter's Avatar
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      04-13-2012 03:13 PM #2040
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      04-13-2012 04:03 PM #2041
      Quote Originally Posted by Mike! View Post
      I appreciate the history, but I'm not sure it's germaine to my point about the current candidates in this election cycle. It's great what they were able to accomplish back then, but I did specifically mention Obama's views versus the views of Romney, Boehner, and McConnell. From the latter three, I've only heard objection to Obama's proposed defense cuts.
      You're welcome.

      Here's something germaine to the current topic.

      If Romney gets elected and the economy improves and we engage in no other wars...he could decrease DOD spending per the Gates plan just as rapidly as Obama. The current Obama reduction plan was designed and built under Bush/Gates. And politicians views are only as relevant as the checkbooks to support them. Not to mention they change like the wind....

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      04-13-2012 09:46 PM #2042
      Quote Originally Posted by pentaxshooter View Post
      i noticed the crowd booed when he started to bash the FDA
      Quote Originally Posted by koidragon1980 View Post
      If Jesus is your pilot, then irony is your vehicle.

    18. Member stolenface's Avatar
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      04-13-2012 11:52 PM #2043
      Quote Originally Posted by A.Wilder View Post
      i noticed the crowd booed when he started to bash the FDA
      yes, they started booing when he said something about the government controling what we put into our bodies.

    19. Member pentaxshooter's Avatar
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      04-14-2012 12:04 AM #2044
      Quote Originally Posted by stolenface View Post
      yes, they started booing when he said something about the government controling what we put into our bodies.
      This.

      I'm having a hard time believing Wilder is seriously this stupid.
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    20. 04-14-2012 12:04 AM #2045
      Quote Originally Posted by A.Wilder View Post
      i noticed the crowd booed when he started to bash the FDA
      The FDA deserves to be booed.

      Here's a very brief list:

      1. Voluntary regulation (an oxymoron) for antibiotics in food production, after not enforcing its own rule for 35 years.

      2. Refusal to regulate mercury in HFCS, now "corn sugar" to confuse the public, even after one of its people (a retiring woman) blew the whistle.

      3. Failure to regulate supplement "industry". We're in patent medicine territory and the only thing that's missing is the tar and feathers. The quackery pays well, since Romney's campaign finance manager is a billionaire whose fortune comes from this crap:

      Quote Originally Posted by GG
      Frank VanderSloot is an Idaho billionaire and the CEO of Melaleuca, Inc., a controversial billion-dollar-a-year company which peddles dietary supplements and cleaning products; back in 2004, Forbes, echoing complaints to government agencies, described the company as “a pyramid selling organization, built along the lines of Herbalife and Amway.”
      4. Monsanto and their pesticide-producing GMO plants.

      5. Allows aluminum, a neurotoxin, to be added (in large amounts, depending upon the product) to food without even a warning label or the requirement that it be listed at all. The worst source of it, processed cheese, doesn't even list it.

      6. GRAS status for poorly-studied high-intensity sweeteners like Stevia extracts and acesulfame-K, sweeteners which have been linked to things like DNA damage in what little research there is. Check out the acesulfame link for some very interesting statements from experts.

      7. Refusal to even speak with the press after attending a pink slime party put on by Rick Perry and his backers.

      and so on

    21. Senior Member VarianceVQ's Avatar
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      04-14-2012 12:05 AM #2046
      Quote Originally Posted by stolenface View Post
      yes, they started booing when he said something about the government controling what we put into our bodies.
      That's not a fair representation of what the FDA does.

    22. Senior Member VarianceVQ's Avatar
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      04-14-2012 12:08 AM #2047
      Quote Originally Posted by O_G View Post
      and so on
      How the hell did you throw that together in ~10 minutes?

    23. 04-14-2012 12:10 AM #2048
      Quote Originally Posted by VarianceVQ View Post
      How the hell did you throw that together in ~10 minutes?
      I'm a lean mean posting machine.

    24. Member pentaxshooter's Avatar
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      04-14-2012 12:22 AM #2049
      Quote Originally Posted by O_G View Post
      I'm a lean mean posting machine.
      I'll give you that.
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      04-14-2012 12:26 AM #2050
      Quote Originally Posted by VarianceVQ View Post
      That's not a fair representation of what the FDA does.
      oh I know its not all they do, and I know they do some good. I was just informing A Wilder that he was wrong with his little jab.

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