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    Thread: 300 AAC Blackout small pistol primers and powder

    1. 01-20-2012 10:47 AM #1
      If I keep the loads near the subsonic range (low pressure), can I just use my small pistol primers? What about powder, if the AAC blackout round is being shot out of a pistol barrel at pistol velocities (all I will have is a short barrel for it)...That second question deserves a non knee jerk reaction please...

      Im debating on adding a new caliber and I like the idea of an ar pistol...Ill toss the 223 barrel in the closet with some 223 rounds, put a blackout barrel on the pistol and have a glorified 45 ACP that uses AR magazines, small pistol primers, pistol powder, home cast bullets, and home doctored 223 to aac blackout brass.

      Sounds awesome to me...if someone has any knowledgable input...
      Quote Originally Posted by leakypipeDCI View Post
      The regulars here are actually pretty supportive, despite what the idiotic posters think.

    2. 01-20-2012 10:48 AM #2
      oh and I will paint the gun gold and silver, of course. Just brainstorming here guys...
      Quote Originally Posted by leakypipeDCI View Post
      The regulars here are actually pretty supportive, despite what the idiotic posters think.

    3. Member 1lojet1281's Avatar
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      01-20-2012 01:56 PM #3
      You cannot use small pistol primers. They are the right diameter but they will seat too far into the pocket. All primer sizes are basically the same price so it doesn't cost any more to use the right one. There is a ton of load data available for 300 blk, and I believe that much of it uses fast burning rifle powder and pistol powder.

    4. 01-20-2012 03:00 PM #4
      Are you absolutely sure of this?

      I have read of people using small pistol primers on 223 brass when running subsonic or low pressure loads. The 300 AAC blackout brass is basically 223 brass thats been chopped and renecked.

      The way I see it, if 45 ACP brass can push a 230 grain projectile at around 1000 fps at 21000 psi, maybe 300 blackout can too...in that case, I can easily run lead bullets with little to no leading.

      Also, a small pistol primer should be able to easily hold up to 21000 psi....id imagine anyway.

      Its not about cost here, its about convenience. I already load for 38/357, 9mm, and plan on loading for 380...I already have casting components and if all I ever have to buy is small pistol primers...that is REALLY convenient.

      Itd be REALLY cool to buy a 223 pistol, stick a blackout barrel on it, and be able to run subsonic lead loads for target practice, but also have the option of running FMJ store bought 125 gr loads or putting the old barrel on and running 223 store bought loads, all without having to buy anything more than a 220 grain mold.
      Quote Originally Posted by leakypipeDCI View Post
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    5. Member 1lojet1281's Avatar
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      01-20-2012 04:36 PM #5
      I've never mic'd them to verify, but that's what I have read in some reloading manuals. They are also much softer cup material and since you are talking about running them in an AR they could go off just from the inertia of the firing pin when the bolt slams forward. ( run a few rounds through the action without firing and look at the primers) the safe move is to use magnum rifle primers, many get by with standard primers, but it seems to me like pistol primers would be pushing it. It's up to you though, it might work, but it's the .01% of the time when things go bad that you might wish you just bought another box of primers.

    6. 01-20-2012 04:38 PM #6
      Quote Originally Posted by 1lojet1281 View Post
      I've never mic'd them to verify, but that's what I have read in some reloading manuals. They are also much softer cup material and since you are talking about running them in an AR they could go off just from the inertia of the firing pin when the bolt slams forward. ( run a few rounds through the action without firing and look at the primers) the safe move is to use magnum rifle primers, many get by with standard primers, but it seems to me like pistol primers would be pushing it. It's up to you though, it might work, but it's the .01% of the time when things go bad that you might wish you just bought another box of primers.
      This is true. Though, I will most likely be using cheap Russian primers which are known to be extra hard...

      Still wondering if anyone has used small pistol primers while loading 223 though...
      Quote Originally Posted by leakypipeDCI View Post
      The regulars here are actually pretty supportive, despite what the idiotic posters think.

    7. Member lax1492's Avatar
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      01-20-2012 05:02 PM #7
      came across this, no idea of you know or not but wanted to share

      http://300aacblackout.com/



      Suggested subsonic load:

      • R-P 300 AAC BLACKOUT brass
      Remington 7.5 primers
      • 11.2 grains of A1680 powder (Adjust powder charge down as needed. Factory ammo is 1010 fps for 16" barrel)
      • Case length is 1.368 +0.000 -0.020
      • Sierra 220 MK loaded to 2.120 OAL (this length is optimal for reliable feeding from USGI magazines)
      • Chamber pressure 21,100 psi.

    8. Member 1lojet1281's Avatar
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      01-20-2012 05:28 PM #8
      to answer your question directly I have heard of people using pistol primers in rifles, it will technically work and will usually function. from what i understand though the primer will sit further into the primer pocket than it should. and to answer an earlier question/comment, the 300blk case is in fact just a 223/5.56 case thats shortened and re formed so the back end is the same as a standard 223/5.56.

      there was a great article in guns and ammo this month about reloading for 300blk, also on the 300blk official website they give loading info (even though neither one of them would condone using pistol primers the load data should still be relevant.)

    9. Geriatric Member Obin Robinson's Avatar
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      01-20-2012 09:25 PM #9
      The secret to a good subsonic load: heavy bullets and a fast burning powder. Domes you will end up using a magnum primer with a reduced powder load in a rifle round.

      Here is your safety warning: IF YOU ARE UNSURE THEN ASK AN EXPERT FIRST!!!!! If it takes you a week to get a response then it is worth the wait. Do not blow up your gun because you are impatient. I have a bit of experience loading subsonics but I have also asked for help from people much more knowledgeable than me. It is a bit of a black art and there is a lot of good info out there if you are willing to do the research. Not all of the research is in English either. I have some subsonic 7.62x39 data I need to get from a friend. It is in Afrikaans... But it is good data. Look at some of the Finnish websites as well for subsonic load info.

      Good luck!

      obin
      "We're society's crowbar. They hate us, they never want to acknowledge the dirty jobs they give us to do, but when the job is done they never throw us away - they just slip us back in the toolbox until they need us the next time. And there will always be a next time."-Jim Hooper. Beneath the Visiting Moon: Images of Combat in Southern Africa

    10. Geriatric Member Obin Robinson's Avatar
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      01-20-2012 09:27 PM #10
      Quote Originally Posted by HighFructoseCornSyrp View Post
      This is true. Though, I will most likely be using cheap Russian primers which are known to be extra hard...

      Still wondering if anyone has used small pistol primers while loading 223 though...
      I use small pistol primers in .223 loads. I have never had a problem at all. I use wolf pistol primers and never had an issue.

      obin
      "We're society's crowbar. They hate us, they never want to acknowledge the dirty jobs they give us to do, but when the job is done they never throw us away - they just slip us back in the toolbox until they need us the next time. And there will always be a next time."-Jim Hooper. Beneath the Visiting Moon: Images of Combat in Southern Africa

    11. 01-20-2012 11:00 PM #11
      Quote Originally Posted by Obin Robinson View Post
      I use small pistol primers in .223 loads. I have never had a problem at all. I use wolf pistol primers and never had an issue.

      obin
      alright then!

      Obin, are you messing with 300 AAC blackout?
      Quote Originally Posted by leakypipeDCI View Post
      The regulars here are actually pretty supportive, despite what the idiotic posters think.

    12. Geriatric Member Obin Robinson's Avatar
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      01-21-2012 07:33 AM #12
      Quote Originally Posted by HighFructoseCornSyrp View Post
      alright then!

      Obin, are you messing with 300 AAC blackout?
      No but some local guys are. They said their load data was coming from online sources.

      obin
      "We're society's crowbar. They hate us, they never want to acknowledge the dirty jobs they give us to do, but when the job is done they never throw us away - they just slip us back in the toolbox until they need us the next time. And there will always be a next time."-Jim Hooper. Beneath the Visiting Moon: Images of Combat in Southern Africa

    13. 01-22-2012 12:36 AM #13
      I know a 16 inch rifle doesnt take advantage of everything the 300 blackout offers, but, other than the extra barrel length, are there any other downsides to a 16 incher?
      Quote Originally Posted by leakypipeDCI View Post
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    14. Geriatric Member Obin Robinson's Avatar
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      01-22-2012 12:40 AM #14
      Quote Originally Posted by HighFructoseCornSyrp View Post
      I know a 16 inch rifle doesnt take advantage of everything the 300 blackout offers, but, other than the extra barrel length, are there any other downsides to a 16 incher?
      In absolute terms velocity will be a little bit higher and overall weapon length will be longer. That's about it.

      obin
      "We're society's crowbar. They hate us, they never want to acknowledge the dirty jobs they give us to do, but when the job is done they never throw us away - they just slip us back in the toolbox until they need us the next time. And there will always be a next time."-Jim Hooper. Beneath the Visiting Moon: Images of Combat in Southern Africa

    15. 01-22-2012 09:03 AM #15
      so less powder to get it to 1000 fps!

      This may be a REALLY dumb question, but what about case life? Will the longer barrel result in higher, lower, or no difference in pressures?

      Oh, and is bullseye an accepted powder for 45 ACP, or does 45 use a slower burning powder?

      Promise Im done after this...
      Quote Originally Posted by leakypipeDCI View Post
      The regulars here are actually pretty supportive, despite what the idiotic posters think.

    16. Geriatric Member Obin Robinson's Avatar
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      01-22-2012 09:53 AM #16
      Quote Originally Posted by HighFructoseCornSyrp View Post
      so less powder to get it to 1000 fps!

      This may be a REALLY dumb question, but what about case life? Will the longer barrel result in higher, lower, or no difference in pressures?

      Oh, and is bullseye an accepted powder for 45 ACP, or does 45 use a slower burning powder?

      Promise Im done after this...
      You don't want to do less powder per se... you want to use less of a slow burning powder. Using too little powder is just as dangerous as using too much.

      Not a dumb question on case life. I don't think you are going to be stressing out these cases that much with these reduced loads and heavy bullets. They will probably last longer but don't quote me on that. I know that in general all the reduced loads I've used in my guns have made the cases last longer but I haven't done 300 AAC Blackout personally: I just have friends who shoot it.

      Bullseye is a great powder for 45. It works quite well. On the other hand you're going to want to use a very clean burning powder. Just offhand I'd want to use something like H110 because it's meant for pushing heavy pistol bullets at high velocity. I'd also look into Red Dot pistol powder.

      H110:
      http://www.hodgdon.com/shotpist.html

      Red Dot
      http://www.alliantpowder.com/product...r/red_dot.aspx

      I'd still do a bit more lurking in some of the suppressor forums to see what others are using. If you need more help just ask.

      obin
      "We're society's crowbar. They hate us, they never want to acknowledge the dirty jobs they give us to do, but when the job is done they never throw us away - they just slip us back in the toolbox until they need us the next time. And there will always be a next time."-Jim Hooper. Beneath the Visiting Moon: Images of Combat in Southern Africa

    17. 01-24-2012 11:19 AM #17
      Well, I took a look around it it seems that nobody is running a powder for their 220 gr 300 aac blackout loads that is comparable to a 45 acp powder that is useable with 9mm...

      You would think that a Unique or Bullseye load for a 230 gr 45 ACP load would be used for a 220 gr 300 AAC blackout load...I don't see anyone trying this-it would be nice to only have to buy one kind of powder, primer, etc.

      From what I glean, ill need a slightly slower burning powder to make the AR15 stuff cycle reliably...just slow enough to make it not fast enough for 9mm...oh well. Ill probably keep looking, but I am thinking it is an issue with the AR15 gas system that is gonna require a slow burning powder, something I cannot use with 9mm...
      Quote Originally Posted by leakypipeDCI View Post
      The regulars here are actually pretty supportive, despite what the idiotic posters think.

    18. Geriatric Member Obin Robinson's Avatar
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      01-24-2012 08:02 PM #18
      Have you thought about calling up the customer service number for a place like Hodgdon or Alliant? They have a bunch of egghead chemists that will know the best powder for that application.

      obin
      "We're society's crowbar. They hate us, they never want to acknowledge the dirty jobs they give us to do, but when the job is done they never throw us away - they just slip us back in the toolbox until they need us the next time. And there will always be a next time."-Jim Hooper. Beneath the Visiting Moon: Images of Combat in Southern Africa

    19. 01-25-2012 10:57 PM #19
      I honestly never thought of that. I probably will. It'd be nice to not have to switch powders between calibers.
      Quote Originally Posted by leakypipeDCI View Post
      The regulars here are actually pretty supportive, despite what the idiotic posters think.

    20. Geriatric Member Obin Robinson's Avatar
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      02-04-2012 08:34 PM #20
      I just came across some info. Try 9.5 grains of Trail Boss powder:

      http://www.imrpowder.com/trailboss.html

      And use these bullets:

      Lapua 200 grain subsonic:

      http://www.midwayusa.com/product/381...ail-box-of-100

      It should work perfectly in 300 AAC Blackout.

      Seat these to 2.12" overall length.

      obin
      "We're society's crowbar. They hate us, they never want to acknowledge the dirty jobs they give us to do, but when the job is done they never throw us away - they just slip us back in the toolbox until they need us the next time. And there will always be a next time."-Jim Hooper. Beneath the Visiting Moon: Images of Combat in Southern Africa

    21. 02-04-2012 11:15 PM #21
      Thanks I've bee researching too. I think I'm gonna wait til kel tec comes out with their blk gun so I have a good 6 to 8 months til I get one. Hopefully.

      I'm really digging this round. I think I'll be able to run a cast 220 gr bullet up at around 1400 fps. I'm not looking for suppressor type stuff, just a cast bullet in a repeating rifle with common parts and using pistol primers. I wish saga was planning on making one.
      Quote Originally Posted by leakypipeDCI View Post
      The regulars here are actually pretty supportive, despite what the idiotic posters think.

    22. Geriatric Member Obin Robinson's Avatar
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      02-10-2012 02:21 PM #22
      I just stumbled across this and it will be well worth your time:

      http://www.300blktalk.com/forum/viewforum.php?f=141

      obin
      "We're society's crowbar. They hate us, they never want to acknowledge the dirty jobs they give us to do, but when the job is done they never throw us away - they just slip us back in the toolbox until they need us the next time. And there will always be a next time."-Jim Hooper. Beneath the Visiting Moon: Images of Combat in Southern Africa

    23. 02-10-2012 08:25 PM #23
      Yeah I've been reading a lot over there. The yahoos running it have it set up to where if you have hotmail or gmail you cannot register. I have a .us email that it won't allow either, I guess because we use gmail to run it. Sucks, so I'll just keep lurking over there
      Quote Originally Posted by leakypipeDCI View Post
      The regulars here are actually pretty supportive, despite what the idiotic posters think.

    24. Geriatric Member Obin Robinson's Avatar
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      02-10-2012 08:26 PM #24
      Quote Originally Posted by HighFructoseCornSyrp View Post
      Yeah I've been reading a lot over there. The yahoos running it have it set up to where if you have hotmail or gmail you cannot register. I have a .us email that it won't allow either, I guess because we use gmail to run it. Sucks, so I'll just keep lurking over there
      I registered with my .mil address. From what I can gather a lurker can at least get all the good info though.

      obin
      "We're society's crowbar. They hate us, they never want to acknowledge the dirty jobs they give us to do, but when the job is done they never throw us away - they just slip us back in the toolbox until they need us the next time. And there will always be a next time."-Jim Hooper. Beneath the Visiting Moon: Images of Combat in Southern Africa

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