Suspension - Control Arm Replacement [TOC]

[conmoto]

Sorry, but who is Marcos? I would like to know what exactly he had done to the suspension.

[invisiblewave]

I'm not sure if he's detailed all the changes he had done, but it was the whole suspension, struts, arms, bushings, everything. They were trying to cure the tyre wear problem, which I think has improved but not been totally resolved. Anyway, there's a significant difference between a car with 80k on the original suspension and one that's done about 20k since the suspension was changed.

[mlong1]

Martin,

You are correct. I had a replacement of all the bushings, control arms, air struts, control module on my 2004 V8 at 85k miles.

The car was not feeling tight over bumps, there was noise from the suspension when driving over uneven roads and the tires were not wearing evenly.

The car now feels just like when I bought it. As far as the wear of the tires, much improved as well.

I cannot tell you how much the whole work was, there was a component paid by VW and a portion I paid out of pocket.

Bottom line is that you will notice a significant improvement when the work is done. This is a heavy car and it takes a toll on those rubber suspension components.

Marcos

[conmoto]

Thanks for specifying Marcos. Do you have an opinion on whether the struts had much of an impact on the ride improvement? I'd like to believe that the control arms and bushings are responsible for the improvement.

Were the struts replaced because of a total failure as alluded to in other threads?

[mlong1]

Conmoto,

The improvement was due to the bushing replacement in my opinion. One of my struts appeared to be failing. I did not notice the issue as a driver, but I was glad to have them replaced since this is one of those issues that VW may or may not continue to extend good will support to cover the cost.

The only thing I did notice, is that after replacing the struts, the car seems to sit a little higher than before- it could be just me, but sure seems like it does.

Marcos

[conmoto]

Understood. Good to know. I really need to replace some bushings. The Phaeton is creaking like a rusty gate.

Regarding your ride height: As I remember, the stock 2004 suspension is open to adjustment to European spec (lower) via VAGCOM, but 2005+ cannot be modified via VAGCOM. Did you by chance have your 2004 suspension lowered?

[invisiblewave]

My guess, fwiw, would also be the bushings. Mine has minor metal-on-metal contact damage around one of the bushings, presumably because of softening/failure of the rubber. There was also some minor improvement when I replaced the driver's side anti-roll bar droplink. It's hard to see how the air struts would contribute to ride problems unless they failed completely (which I've always assumed is one reason air struts are preferred to springs).

[phaetonenvy]

Tongzilla,
How did the install go?

[sachverhalte]

Hi Tongzilla,

Did you ever complete this job. I would like to order the parts from 1stVWparts. Do you have the part number list that you ordered? It looks to me as if there are only 8 bushings to replace, plus the sway-bar "droplinks". Is that the case?

Thanks...Bob

[tongzilla]

Sorry for the delay. I haven't forgotten about the update! My Phaeton actually has been at Northtowne VW for 2 weeks and $3,000 later for trunk problem (new wiring harness) and CEL (Mass Airflow Sensors and 2 Breather Pipes). I dropped the car off this morning to get all 10 bushings replaced and serpentine belt replaced. My tech is charging me 8 hours to put all 10 bushings and to replace the belt. I should have the car back tomorrow and will give you an update of how it went and of course how it drives. Cheers!

[phaetonenvy]

Cant wait to hear about it.
Just pulled the wheels and took a look at mine, I plan to swap the sway bar links first and see how that goes. it looks straight forward enough, and I won't have to deal with that dreaded bolt on the uppers.

[tongzilla]

Sorry again for the delay on an update. OK. I dropped the car off on Tuesday and got the car back on Wednesday. He charged me total of 8 hours ($450) to replace all 10 bushings and drive belt. The Phaeton is now without creaks and moans. It appears to be much more solid down the road.

Those who have been wanting to do it should do it. Total Parts and Labor for this job is inexpensive given the scheme of things. Although, I would not recommend the VW dealer because I believe the dealer will not only replacing the bushings, they would want to replace the whole control arms. That can get expensive very quickly. Conmoto mentioned of $4,000 to refresh front suspension. I paid about $300 for these Bushings and $450 for Labor and $100 Alignment - total of $850, I think that's a great $850 SPENT!! Find someone who is familiar with Audi/VW products, the work is straight forward. And don't forget to get the car aligned.

Bob, call 877-737-3670 (1stVWparts) - they are actually Auburn Volkswagen - A full VW dealer in Auburn, WA and tell them you have a Phaeton and you are wanting to replace the front bushings. Those guys know exactly which ones to get. I was trying to order it online and got confused as to which ones to get. I finally called them up and asked them, should have done that at the beginning! They will also put the diagram and parts number with the items when shipped.

Tong

[stefanuk]

Hi Tong,

Can you say who made the suspension bushes you had fitted, are they rubber or polyurethane? as i'm looking at replacing mine with polyurethane ones but when i look online no one makes them specifically for the Phaeaton, although powerflex suggest using their universal bushes.
Like you i don't want to go down the dealer route and have them fit not just bushes but control arms etc too.
Thanks,
Stefan

[EnglishPhaeton]

Stefan,

Can't you get Audi bushes? A lot of the suspension components are common to RS4/6 and A/S8 surely powerflex or polybush cater for those?

Stu

[tongzilla]

The bushings I got were all rubber. The parts number/quantity/price are:

4E0-407-181-D (2) - $27.63
4E0-407-182-C (2) - $27.63
4E0-407-183-H (2) - $50.14
8D0-407-515-C (4) - $22.45

Hope this helps!

Tong

[stefanuk]

Thanks for the suggestion Stu, didn't occur to me. I've had a quick internet search but again seems that these cars are not catered for which i would have expected. Maybe they didn't sell in enough numbers either!!

Thanks for the part numbers Tongzilla, are they original VW parts??
i'm more tempted with polyurethane as they are supposed to not degrade over time and also provide more stable suspension control over the rubber bushes, but if i have to i'll stick with the OE rubber bushes.

Stefan

[EnglishPhaeton]

Thanks for the suggestion Stu, didn't occur to me. I've had a quick internet search but again seems that these cars are not catered for which i would have expected. Maybe they didn't sell in enough numbers either!!

Thanks for the part numbers Tongzilla, are they original VW parts??
i'm more tempted with polyurethane as they are supposed to not degrade over time and also provide more stable suspension control over the rubber bushes, but if i have to i'll stick with the OE rubber bushes.

Stefan

Powerflex do most of the bushes, drop links, top and bottom arms and anti roll bar, considering taking the (not inconsiderable) plunge!

Stu

[sachverhalte]

Hi Tong,

Many thanks for the note on 1st VW parts. I'm asking the local Audi dealer to quote the bushing replacement. My VW dealer claims they don't have the tool to push the old bushings in/out. I'm wondering if a typical non-dealer Audi mechanic would have such tools. Or am I stuck going to a dealer?

Thanks...Bob

[tongzilla]

I believe VW/Audi dealers do not want to replace just the bushings. They would rather replace the whole thing. I assume it is simply more $$$, less headache, and less liability.

[stefanuk]

i am yes Stu.
I've recently had to have the drop bar links replaced due to their perishing and thought if they needed replacement the other bushes can't be far behind and it does feel a little 'wooly' to drive, even after an alignment check.
I doesn't feel as tight as i remember the car from a couple of years ago when i brought it.

Stefan

[invisiblewave]

"Woolly" is exactly how I'd describe the way mine feels after having driven Marcos's. It feels sort of loose. Not sure I'm ready to drop the money required to sort it out though.

[WillemBal]

Pressing bushings in the control arms should be no big deal for someone that has done this several times and has a suitable press.

I think that this is the tool for the job:

Prior to removal of the old bushing:



It seems that the old bushing can pop out with force.

Prior to installation of the new bushing (lubricate with Gleitöl G 294 421 A1)


The tool is needed for many different VW models. So anyone who has done this on other VW's, should be able to do it for the Phaeton as well.

Willem

[edfitzie]

all the parts arrived this morning... will try and get time to fit the tie rod ends and drops links today and early next week i'll fit all the control arms back and front.. after that will post a detailed report on the before and after

[phaetonenvy]

Thanks ed. Looking forward to your writeup. I just spoke with my mechanic and he estimates 6 hrs. I plan to order the bushings next week.

[edfitzie]

fitted inner/outer tie rod ends... much tighter now up front ... the little "play" that was there in the steering is now gone.. will get VW to change all the control arms/drop links, next week and report back thereafter

[heisenberg2000]

After buying all the parts at the beginning of the year, i finally got around to start working on the front suspension.

I did the work in front of the garage with 2 floor jacks ( the second for loading the suspension while tightening all the parts )
I dare to say that i did not run into any difficulty (needless to state that performing this work on a hoist will make it about at least 60 % easier ). It took about 10 minutes to cut off the head of the front A arm mount bolt. I used a regular saw blade for this since there is not enough space for a flex.

I did drop down the whole sway bar during reassy. It makes refitting the parts much simpler.

While installing the sway bar link, i found that the holes in the link (the one i got) differ in so far, that i ended up opening the lower hole to 12 mm (diam.) and using the original mounting bolt. For the upper mount i used the supplied 10 mm bolt and nut.

Due to lack of time i did not get around to do the upper a arms yet. But from just looking at it, it does not look to involving.

I will report more soon.

Gernot

PS.
During the repair i did also found out the my inner CV joint boots are bad. (i have 92,000 miles on the car)

[sachverhalte]

Hi All,

Many thanks for the information you all have contributed. As I am short on time and tools, I hired a shop to refresh the suspension. I couldn't get the good indy mechanic prices here in Boston that Tong found in Missouri. I did however get the four bushings on the upper control arms and the two droplinks replaced for $1000 including rental car for the day. The squeaks and clunks are gone, and the suspension is tight once again.

Bob

[Jorgsphaeton]

Our cars getting older and we will need to replace the controlarms or bushes soon, so here is a tutorial how to do that by yourself. it is for an audi A8 but that will be the same except that we have air shocks:

http://www.audipages.com/Tech_Articl...rmreplace.html


jorg

[Auzivision]

Thanks for posting the nice tutorial; might come in handy someday.

I wonder if the A8 coil overs would work inplace of our airbags... should they happen to fail.

[Paximus]

There's some 'what if' discussion in this thread about deleting the air suspension:

Air ride removal

It looks to be a lot of engineering and computing effort, practically a redesign of the car...

Cheers,
Chris

[Paldi]

I just had the two bushings replaced on the rear upper control arms (one per arm) and kept the old ball joints. It cost me $500 for the parts and install. Now the grunch noise I was hearing every morning for a mile or two is completely gone. My car has 116,000 miles and has been making the noise the last 20k or so.

[Paldi]

I just had the two bushings replaced on the rear upper control arms (one per arm) and kept the old ball joints. It cost me $500 for the parts and install. Now the grunch noise I was hearing every morning for a mile or two is completely gone. My car has 116,000 miles and has been making the noise the last 20k or so.

[robbie-rocket-pants]

When removing the air shock absorbers (struts) in order to change the upper control arms, does anyone know if it is a tricky job to disconnect the air system from them on the Phaeton?

[Paximus]

The book just breezily says this:

‒ Remove wheel.
‒ Unscrew air line from air spring strut and seal ends of both unions.
‒ Cut through cable tie on air spring strut.
‒ etc

Usually if there were problems it links to a short line that says "remove engine before undoing bolt B" or similar!

There is likely to be some residual air in the tank, but the car expects this to dissipate slowly as it stands, regardless.

Chris

[robbie-rocket-pants]

Thanks Chris.

If I grab my upper control arms I can twist them through a few degrees fairly easily by hand so I think the rubber bushes are getting a bit old and flimsy.

I know that you can replace the bushes alone, but I would have thought the ball joints on the other ends are just as likely to be worn as well. A job for the Summer perhaps.