where o where did my engine oil go...

[redzone98]

The Routan turned 3 years old today, so i decided to treat the old lady to a little lovin. Wash, Wax, Vacuum, clean some other odds n ends.

everything was going good till (just for kicks i might add) i checked the oil.

pulled out the dip stick and it was DRY! Nothing!!!!

The van has been driven just 3253 miles since the last oil change.

I have been suffering from Oil consumption since 5K miles, and told the dealer every single time i went in for my "free" oil changes.

I even had the PCV system serviced and PCV valves replaced last time at the dealer under warranty.

I will be calling VWOA today and letting them know what i think!


Check your oil level guys!

Some VIDS:

http://youtu.be/SKsaPr9gkcY

http://youtu.be/Ngv53HRs64I

[Zambee500]

Can't tell from your profile which option package you have. Is this the 3.8L engine or the 4.0L? I believe the 3.8 has a known oil consumption issue that is fairly common. I haven't heard of the 4.0 having similar known issue.

[redzone98]

sorry, just a 3.8L here

[redzone98]

sorry, just a 3.8L here

OK...

Changed the Oil today, and discovered some serious issues. It is roughly 45 degrees out today, and sunny, so a great day to do the oil. I let the oil drain out for about 30 minutes, after starting the car up and letting it idle for about 5 minutes to bring up the oil temps.

A cup of coffee later, and i went back out to the driveway to finish up.... this is where is gets serious.

The oil catch pan was not filled at all, In fact it did not even fill the bottom completely!!!

What was IN the catch pan was a black, thick, oil goo that resembled 90w gear oil. I have 38700 miles in it, and had my last change at the 35000 mile service done by the dealer.

After scraping all the oil out of the oil catch pan, i put the old oil into a 5Qt Jug, and it filled to roughly 1.1 Qts. YES, 1 this engine was operating on 1 Qt of oil!!!!


Im contacting my dealer and VWOA Monday AM.

[redzone98]

Bump for new vids

[Zambee500]

What does your coolant look like? Any oil in the radiator?

I've never really had any reason to research this issue much, but I've heard anecdotal comments that the 3.8L motor has been known to have this oil consumption issue. I wonder what shows up on the Dodge/Chrysler forums. To only have maybe a quart+ of oil left on a motor that takes 5+ quarts, it seems like it would be smoking pretty bad from the tail-pipe if it were burning the oil. And obviously, if it were leaking you'd have an oil-slick in your garage floor. So it'd either be migrating or at the last oil change they drained it and didn't refill it. Actually, if they drained it and put the oil plug back on, and then never changed the filter or refilled it, I bet you'd have about a quart of oil remaining. Either way, VWoA needs to step up to the plate on this. Even if they do an oil change now and there's no readily apparent engine damage, it's likely damage has already been done and it might not show up for another 6 months or longer.

[redzone98]

yea, VWOA is getting a call today, also giving my dealer a call telling them what happened. I have been fighting this issue since my 3rd oil change, only because i had the dealers do the 1st and 2nd, and i did not even check the oil level since the car was so new.

...I was thinking the head gasket might be done, but then again, the oil coming out of the car will be all milky.

[Volvos Rock]

Gotta check the oil EVERY time you fuel the vehicle... If there was damage done it would be evident now. This is an odd one, our 3.8 uses virtually no oil (at 20k), and if it was happening alot this board and the Chrysler one would be singing with complaints. Head gasket would show oil/antifreeze mix and large amounts of white smoke from the tailpipe. Keep us updated and good luck with VWNA.

[redzone98]

Gotta check the oil EVERY time you fuel the vehicle...

haha, ironically, i took the vehicle to get gas, and thats what i checked it. The van is my Wife's Daily, so you know how that is

[redzone98]

ok, called VWoA and got my case # on this issue.

they will call the Dealer, and me on a 3 way conference call tomorrow am between 9 and 930am.


Kudos VW on this, getting it Done

[Zambee500]

I have the 4.0L engine and since we bought the vehicle last summer, I've checked the oil fairly regularly just so I know whether (or how much) it uses oil. We're on the second OCI since purchasing it, and 4k miles on the current oil change. When I checked it yesterday, I had to add nearly a full quart. This is new, b/c previously I hadn't needed to add oil between oil changes. The oil level was just barely above the minimum of "safe" level on the dipstick, so averted running it low. So thanks for bringing this up, RedZone98.

This got me to googling last night, and lots and lots of hits come back on oil consumption with the Dodge Chrysler 3.8L motor, as well as on some Jeeps. Other than Chrysler maintaining that it is not outside "normal" for it to use 1 quart per 800-1000 miles , some of these other threads indicate a variety of potential causes. Check out the threads that google returns for dodgeforums and the ask.edmunds.com. One is PCV valve, and after-market ones in particular being no good immediately upon replacement. Some folks experienced no fix having PCV replaced the first time, only to have it replaced a second time and the problem went away. Insist on genuine MOPAR parts. Another possible cause theorized was synthetic oil being too "slick", and switching to synthetic blends or straight dino oil cured the problem. Then of course the oil rings.

I would insist on getting VWoA to acknowledge the problem in writing and insist that they extend the warranty on anything motor related, and especially the catalytic system. The cat converter is working overtime if it's burning the oil. Is the inside of the tailpipe sooty? Might be worth having someone (if you're not comfortable yourself) pull the sparkplugs and see if they're oily too.

Otherwise, it might be worth purchasing an extended warranty from either VWoA or a third party. A lot of consumer advocates frown on car warranties from third parties, but this is VW we're talking about here. A third party warranty would allow you to get the vehicle repaired at non-dealerships under warranty. But I'd first try to get VWoA to throw in their extended warranty so you're at least covered up to 100k (or 120k??) miles.

Good luck, and post back how VWoA or your dealership handles the problem.

[Zambee500]

ok, called VWoA and got my case # on this issue.

they will call the Dealer, and me on a 3 way conference call tomorrow am between 9 and 930am.


Kudos VW on this, getting it Done

So what did they say or do?

[redzone98]

So what did they say or do?

I headed to the dealer and they set the car up with an "oil consumption test" VWoA called me back to verify that the test was done to the car...

now its just a hurry up and wait game, gotta go back in 500 miles, i did notice that the dealer sealed the drain plug and dip stick with some kinda white goop

[pefer]

Are you experiencing this with 5W20 oils??
What brand oil?

It may be worth noting this in this thread, maybe there is some correlation.

[58kafer]

I headed to the dealer and they set the car up with an "oil consumption test" VWoA called me back to verify that the test was done to the car...

now its just a hurry up and wait game, gotta go back in 500 miles, i did notice that the dealer sealed the drain plug and dip stick with some kinda white goop

A user posted on chryslerminivan.net this same exact question, "Where's the oil?", so I chimed in figuring maybe some answers might pop up. Most guys seem to think oil consumption is normal. I think yours is excessive and you should be taken care of for it. But here's the link if you want to check any of it out. I feel bad for you redzone and was hoping to get you a sorta answer.

http://forum.chryslerminivan.net/sho...here-s-the-oil

Did they give you a scenario like if it uses a 1/2 a quart in 500 miles we'll do something, or we'll go another 500 and see where were at? A friend of my parents bought a brand new 87 Ford bronco with a 5.0 and it consumed oil like your 3.8. They eventually got a new short block when the dealer tore down the motor, the rings on one of the pistons were not clocked correctly. The gaps in the rings were only off a few degrees from each other, thus allowing the oil to burn. Oddly enough, no smoke from the tailpipe. I was just surprised at how guys shrugged it off and say they just carry a quart. I have the dealer do my oil changes on our Routan, but I check it frequently. But if I were putting Mobil 1 in it and I had to buy a quart every 1K at $6.50 a quart I'd be upset. That being said, if nothing comes out of it, I'd be running the cheapest costing oil. As long as it's full the cheap oil still has to make the grade. I could agree with a quart over the oil change but no more and definitely not in less miles for sure. On the other hand these 3.8's have been around for years and are proven tough, maybe even with little to no oil. Heck put some Slick 50 in it and see if you can get an endorsement deal, it already will run on a quart!

Keep us posted.

[redzone98]

Did they give you a scenario like if it uses a 1/2 a quart in 500 miles we'll do something, or we'll go another 500 and see where were at?

Keep us posted.

the Dealer told me to return after 500-600 miles, they didnt give me a specific consumption amount, but they did say dont go over 600 miles before i return. I should be hitting that 500+ mile mark next week, so i will keep everybody updated !@

thanks for the link its a big help!

[Zambee500]

so i will keep everybody updated !

Please do.

In those threads in the Dodge forums, folks were indicating that Chrysler corporate says it's within "normal" range for a ChryCo motor to use 1 qt. per 800-1000 miles. I hope VWoA doesn't subscribe to that same standard of "normal". Using the extreme numbers (per 800 miles with the max 6000 mile OCI), I can't imagine having to add 7.5 quarts between oil changes on a vehicle with an oil capacity of only 5.5 quarts. With those numbers, I guess you'd just have to remember to change the filter every 6k miles and keep on motoring.

[paf]

it seems that car mfg's are turning out 2 cycle engines lately.

Our A5 gulps 1 quart per 3,000 miles and there are cases (reported by others) where the consumption is as bad as 1 quart per 800 mi. Audi says it's expected for a 2.0 engine to use 1 quart per 5K. That makes us 2K short... heh...

The Routan (2010 3.8L) is doing fine at 15K. No missing oil (yeey) but checking the oil frequently is EXTREMELY important!

[redzone98]

it seems that car mfg's are turning out 2 cycle engines lately.

haha, yea rite !

she will hit the 500 mile mark this week, i will see what happens...

with my past experiences with all dealers of every make, they will dismiss it as "normal"

[FCBamberg]

I have a '09 3.8L SE with only 17,000 miles. Yesterday I had to panic stop and the oil indicator flashed. I thought, "Oh sh...." Checked the oil when I got home, nothing on the dipstick. Had to add 2 1/4 quarts to bring it into the "safe" zone on the stick. Looks like I'm in the same boat as redzone98. Taking the Croutan to the dealer next week....

[Zambee500]

redzone, check your PMs.

[ReDGTI2EnVy]

take it to the dealer and call VWOA .. I'm having the same problem but now my engine has to be replaced. They can't explain why there was NO OIL at all in the tank. I say don't drive it and have them exchange the vehicle. I believe soon enough there will be a class action against VW for this issue.

[redzone98]

take it to the dealer and call VWOA .. I'm having the same problem but now my engine has to be replaced. They can't explain why there was NO OIL at all in the tank. I say don't drive it and have them exchange the vehicle. I believe soon enough there will be a class action against VW for this issue.

Tomorrow will be D-Day for the Croutan, Im heading to the dealer with a 10am appointment.

What Ever Happens tomorrow, i will not be driving away from the dealer with my van. Albeit in a Rental car, or a new (non-vw) car.

[redzone98]

Went to the dealer today, and talked with the Service manager for about 35 minutes. Turns out the Routan is consuming oil... but not enough to warranty anything! Managed to eat just .36 of a Qt in the 800 miles that i drove it.

Im at a absolute loss for words here. I feel that VW with their "one QT per 1000" mandate is a joke. Especially since they expect this car to go 5000 miles between oil changes. Im done with this Van. Im done with VW.

[58kafer]

Sorry to hear the bad new Redzone. It is unfortunate that most mfg's follow this or some guideline like the 1/1000. Almost makes you want to just keep adding a quart when needed and at 6K just pop a new filter on and toss a quart in it!

[redzone98]

yea, it is a damn shame that dealers are so fast to dismiss problems after purchase. unless its a obvious problem, ie failure, they dont do a ****ing thing

I will go back to the "old skool" on this motor. using 10-30 non synthetic. And go 3K on the oil changes. Since it IS an old American Push-Rod motor, i need to treat it as such

[Steveaut]

Interestingly, over a week ago I was preparing for a family vacation and so I checked the oil and went about my usually preparation. The oil was down to just under the bottom line on the dip stick. That is below the safe range. I took it into the dealer to check. The dealer said that between the top and bottom mark is only 1/2 quart and not too worry about it. I didn't give it too much thought since they were doing an oil change anyway and since I was going on vacation I could monitor it and see what it does. We traveled about 2k miles and the oil has dropped about 1/4 down the top safe mark. However, I noticed when I checked the oil on the day we were leaving that they overfilled the oil. The oil was about 1/4 inch above the top line. Compensating for the overfill, in 2k miles the oil dropped about 1/3 of the way down from the top mark. Assuming it drops at this same rate, I would expect to be around the bottom safe mark or 1/4 above it by the time I need an oil change. All that said, there are some variables that I will need to eliminate. For example, I checked the oil at the hotel and it may not have been level. I checked the oil in the garage on the day we left. I will need to check it again tomorrow morning in the garage to get a consistent measurement. Also to check it at the same time and with a completely cold engine. Finally, I will buy a quart of oil and check to see how much the mark will move using 1/2 quart of oil. I will monitor for a couple weeks to see what happens from here.

I used to have a Dodge Durango and it burned oil a lot. Like 1 quart every 2k miles. I remember the chrysler dealer saying that was normal for a 100k mile engine.

[Zambee500]

Anecdotal evidence is the oil consumption (for engines that have the mysterious problem) is much worse on highway miles for some reason. I've seen that mentioned here and elsewhere particularly with respect to the 3.8L engine. Our 4.0L did seem to use quite a bit of oil during the OCI where we drove Georgia to upstate NY and back, whereas the previous OCI that was mixed city/hwy "local" driving didn't use any oil.

If I were in Redzone's shoes and had a long roadtrip coming up, I'd go back to the dealership and demand/beg for another oil consumption test. I'll bet consumption would be greater if the 500 or 1000 miles of the test were all hwy miles.

Different motors, so who knows, but I had to add almost a full quart to get the level back to the top of the "safe" line on the dipstick, and it wasn't quite to the bottom of the "safe" line when I added it. I'd just be surprised that the total safe range is only a half-quart, particularly when capacity is 5-5.5 quarts on these vans and not <4 qts like many of the Japanese 4-cylinder engines.

[redzone98]

If I were in Redzone's shoes and had a long roadtrip coming up, I'd go back to the dealership and demand/beg for another oil consumption test. I'll bet consumption would be greater if the 500 or 1000 miles of the test were all hwy miles

My last Oil change was using 5w-30 conventional oil. Which is much different than the 5w-20 Syn that VW uses. Also i Used Mobil and the dealer uses Castrol.

It is BS that the dealer did not change the oil before the test. They used what was IN the car at the time. and just marked the dip stick on the start of the test. This test is useless because im using thicker oil than what VW has been putting in the thing for the last 33K miles.

Im going to start fresh next oil change, and use a 5w-30 again, conventional oil again also. And I will do my OWN test. Documented in this thread.

[marlinsfan]

Holy crap. I just saw the videos, was that really motor oil or is it raw oil that came out of the well!

Took the wife's 09 SE/RSE in for 36k service a few weeks ago. The oil light had gone on a few days before. Car was almost out of oil, and the dealer told me about the same 1 qt/ 1000 mile consumption. Last service had been done at 29k as we were going on a long road trip, so it went 7k miles between oil changes.

Do all dealers use 5w-20 synthetic? He toldme to top it off at 3k intervals between the 6k service intervals.

[Zambee500]

Car was almost out of oil, and the dealer told me about the same 1 qt/ 1000 mile consumption.

He toldme to top it off at 3k intervals between the 6k service intervals.

I believe the 3.8L has a 5 qt. capacity (the 4.0L has 5.5 qt. capacity). I think I'd top off a bit before burning off 60% of the vehicle's oil capacity. I'd be checking it at every fill-up, and probably topping off at every-other if my vehicle were consuming the "not abnormal" amount of 1 qt. per 1000 miles.

[Zambee500]

And the wasn't aimed at you, marlinsfan, but rather at the dealership. Math isn't his strong suit.

[redzone98]

After becoming Aware of this issue, i check the oil every weekend. I guess having VW doing the scheduled oil changes masks this issue from owners until your 40K miles in.

By then your about 3 years into the car, and its worthless.

[marlinsfan]

Do all dealers use 5w-20 synthetic?

And what happens if I don't put in the exact oil weight when I top it off?

[Zambee500]

Not sure about what dealers use. I think there's largely been a move to exclusive use of synthetics at VW, but not sure if the other gassers use 5w20. If 5w20 is unique to Routans at VW dealerships, they may use conventional oil since synthetic is not req'd for Routans. But if other VW gassers use 5w20, and the VW spec requires synthetic, then they might just use synthetic on the Routan too for commonality of 5w20 oil stock.

It won't blow up if you mix oil weights when you top off, but I've always read it's generally a good idea to top off with the exact same oil (brand, wieght, etc.) because of additives and detergents.

If my shoes, I'd probably switch to 5w30 and if it continues to consume oil like crazy then definitely switch to a conventional Castrol or Pennzoil. Or a blend. No sense burning off $8 quarts of Mobil 1 or anything like that.

Maybe talk to your mechanic about changing the PCV valve and use genuine Mopar. Any oil on your air filter? If so, maybe bad CVV?