where o where did my engine oil go...

[redzone98]

Maybe talk to your mechanic about changing the PCV valve and use genuine Mopar. Any oil on your air filter? If so, maybe bad CVV?

Already had the CVV replaced by the dealer. I also replaced the PCV 6 months ago, with a Mopar piece.only because every retail parts store did NOT stock the part! 12$ for that stupid thing!

Im switching out to a nice good ol' 10w30 conventional in a few weeks and will monitor consumption.

[marlinsfan]

As stated before, I had oil changed at 36k miles and the advisor told me to check oil level every 3k miles, as consumption of about 1 qt for every 1k miles was deemed normal. Sure enough, car hit 39k, I checked the oil and ended up putting 2 qts of oil in there.

I really can't believe this is normal. We had been thinking of keeping the car for many years, as my wife really likes it, but I'm starting to wonder if that is a good idea.

[pefer]

As stated before, I had oil changed at 36k miles and the advisor told me to check oil level every 3k miles, as consumption of about 1 qt for every 1k miles was deemed normal. Sure enough, car hit 39k, I checked the oil and ended up putting 2 qts of oil in there.

I really can't believe this is normal. We had been thinking of keeping the car for many years, as my wife really likes it, but I'm starting to wonder if that is a good idea.

I understand that it sucks - oil -
Check oil level every other fill up of gas/ or often, you will know how often to check.... keep the oil topped off, so it does not run low or dry on oil, the engine will last.

Maybe go up a grade, 5w30, 10w30, or even 15w40 in brutal summer heat with long drives, stay away from the 20 weights. This should help control oil consumption.

[redzone98]

As stated before, I had oil changed at 36k miles and the advisor told me to check oil level every 3k miles, as consumption of about 1 qt for every 1k miles was deemed normal. Sure enough, car hit 39k, I checked the oil and ended up putting 2 qts of oil in there.

I really can't believe this is normal. We had been thinking of keeping the car for many years, as my wife really likes it, but I'm starting to wonder if that is a good idea.

Im in the same boat, i love this Van, it fits all my needs of my family for this point in my life. BUT, eating Quart upon Quart of oil for a modern car is not 'normal'

I smell class action lawsuit

[marlinsfan]

Im in the same boat, i love this Van, it fits all my needs of my family for this point in my life. BUT, eating Quart upon Quart of oil for a modern car is not 'normal'

I smell class action lawsuit

We ended up trading in the Routan for an Odyssey this weekend.....

[redzone98]

We ended up trading in the Routan for an Odyssey this weekend.....

what did they give you for the Routan?

[early74B]

what did they give you for the Routan?

+1 -- looking at other makes to possibly replace our '09 Routan SEL, of course many factors come into play including how flexible the dealer is ... as its very easy to do, I plan to 'detail' my '09 and then get a baseline trade value from our local Carmax. I know its only a wholesale price but have done this once before and was a good leverage point when trading another car in (again was changing makes); sometimes going for the same brand helps sometimes it can hurt as the dealer may have a large supply of your used car trade in and doesn't need anymore; as before feel free to PM me if you prefer ... would also be good to see what equip level and mileage you had at time of trade in

NOTE: with a SEL we have the 4.0L and checked the oil before a long trip, it was still in the 'safe' zone but needed about 1/2 Quart about 4K past the last oil change so no real concern on using much oil

[Talareno]

Since the rings require some oil be present on the cylinder wall for lubrication some oil will be consumed when the fuel-air mix burns since it's directly exposed to combustion. You can't completely strip oil from the cylinder wall or metal-to-metal contact will occur & the engine will seize. Some oil is inevitably "consumed" in this way. It's necessary to check oil level in between oil changes & add oil if necessary; I try to check once a month.

I'd heard of the 1 qt/1k mile oil consumption spec when being trained as a GM tech but that was considered the upper limit w/ a normal engine being below that. A lot of variables go into oil consumption including viscosity, oil quality, city vs. highway driving, ambient temperatures etc. Driving short trips in cold weather will tend to cause oil level to rise since unburnt fuel gets into the oil -- you are "making" oil; then if you go on a high speed trip the fuel in the oil quickly dissipates & it may seem like your engine consumed an excessive amount of oil all of a sudden. Some engines seem to "consume" very little oil (the 8v in my '86 Golf) & others require topping up every 1000 miles (1.8T in my Passat).

If your engine has been operated w/ an oil level significantly below the safe mark then some damage may have occurred; the engine internals would need to be examined to check this. Or you could have a couple of oil scans performed at the next two normal oil changes to check for unusual wear metals; much cheaper then tearing the engine down.

[redzone98]

I had a 2003 Ford Escape with 158K miles on it. and that thing did not use a single drip of oil after 5,000 Miles. 5 Qts in 5 Qts out.

[marlinsfan]

what did they give you for the Routan?

Sorry, I didn't see this and I didn't get an email. They offered $14500. Which is higher than KBB trade in value. I owed $14100. it was 09 Routan SE RSE with Climate package, 39000 miles. Original tires with 31000 miles (8000 miles on the snow tires). I had replaced rear brake pads last summer. Front pads and rotors needed replacing, plus all the issues I mentioned in the other thread.

[early74B]

Sorry, I didn't see this and I didn't get an email. They offered $14500. Which is higher than KBB trade in value. I owed $14100. it was 09 Routan SE RSE with Climate package, 39000 miles. Original tires with 31000 miles (8000 miles on the snow tires). I had replaced rear brake pads last summer. Front pads and rotors needed replacing, plus all the issues I mentioned in the other thread.

I was looking for your response on this as well ... what's that end up being about 50% of original MSRP? Best of luck with your Odyssey; been too busy to check on my resale value but will report it here as well (mine is also an '09 but SEL with remote start and navi, has 22K miles now)

[Kola_Trinco]

Folks, I understand all of your pain, since I went thru the same. The PCV valve already replaced & didnt do any good. Finally VW found the issue. After repeated complains, VW came out with the solution. The dealer was asked to perform a "Compression Leak Down Test" to find the 5th & 6th CYL loosing compression thru intake valves (due to valve not seated properly - worn out). The CYL head & EGR valve replaced, as per the note. Oil leak yet to be confirmed, but I feel a big difference in the power (because I was driving all these days only with 4 CYL it looks). Mine is 2009 Routan with only 30K one. Hope this will help folks. I regret why I purchased Routan. VW has spoiled their hard earn name by placing the Crysler Engine.

[redzone98]

My Last oil change i used a 10w30 conventional oil. Mobil Reg oil. I have driven 1800 miles and the oil level is now at the bottom of the "safe level"

I will top her off tonight, but she is still eating oil, conventional does seem to slow it down.

[Jetta_A4]

WHOA, just been alerted to this problem on our 2010 3.8L when wife said warning light was coming on. Sure enough, after hard stop oil light would come on briefly. I just added 3 (three) quarts of oil to bring it to SAFE level. Like others here, oil changes have been at dealer so we never knew about high oil consumption.

[redzone98]

oil changes have been at dealer so we never knew about high oil consumption.

EXACTLY !! all my changes were done at the dealer, going the recommended 5K Miles, GOD only knows what the oil looked like when it was coming out of this engine !

Call VWoA and let them know!!!

VWoA 1-800-822-8987

[Zambee500]

I can't imagine the oil consumption started suddenly between OCIs. I mean it's pretty hard to fathom that there was no oil consumption during all the previous 5k OCIs and then all of a sudden it was 3 quarts low at the next OCI. That's 60% low!! The dealership should have been marking or noting the oil level on the invoices at each oil change, so if they failed to note that it was low then you should have full warranty coverage (indefinitely, IMO) for any engine damage related to low oil. I would demand that in writing from VWoA and/or the dealership.

I just don't think the service manager would be able to look you in the eye and say that it's perfectly normal for an engine to have no oil consumption for thousands upon thousands of miles, and then suddenly lose 60% of the oil during the next OCI AND that it's perfectly within VW's SOP for dealerships not to note that on invoices for oil changes. The only other logical conclusion is even worse - that the dealership failed to add the proper amount of oil.

[Jetta_A4]

Yeah, at a minimum I should let the dealer know that when I pulled the dipstick this morning, the oil was just barely touching the dipstick; one drop. The CRoutan (hah) has about 24k miles.

Good point Zambee, at this point I'm just assuming it's high oil consumption. Possibly the dealer didn't fill it, or, the engine has developed an oil leak (undetected so far).

[redzone98]

Yeah, at a minimum I should let the dealer know that when I pulled the dipstick this morning, the oil was just barely touching the dipstick; one drop. The CRoutan (hah) has about 28k miles.

Good point Zambee, at this point I'm just assuming it's high oil consumption. Possibly the dealer didn't fill it, or, the engine has developed an oil leak (undetected so far).

"Jetta_A4"

This problem is all over Vortex, and the Jeep Forums! There is a defect in the assembly of the Valve Stem oil Seals. There is no Leak, no under-fill of oil from the technicians. It is just a poor quality control at Chrysler. And VW needs to know about it.

[Jetta_A4]

Gotcha. Took it in for 24k service and told tech about the three quarts of vanishing oil. He acknowledged that high oil use is a known issue on this model. Wants me to bring it back after 600 mi for oil measurement.

[58kafer]

Has anyone approached the dealer and asked for a leak down test yet? As Kola_Trinco posted a few posts up, they replaced the head on his Routan. And perhaps it would shed some light into the issue. Has anyone pulled their spark plugs to check for oil fouling, or at least discoloration among the other plugs. He might not be on here often but perhaps he could supply you with his paperwork to bolster your complaint to your dealer and to VWOA. This really does suck for the 3.8 owners.

Here is a doc that Chrysler follows:


Here is the official Chrysler Star case for Oil consumption. This is exactly what the dealer will refer to when your vehicle is brought in for service.

Case Number 999926737
Vehicle Issue
Suspected excessive engine oil consumption, burns oil, uses oil, with no leaks found.;Applies to most Chrysler Corporation models unless otherwise specified. Excessive engine oil usage or consumption suspected.
System or Component Abnormal Behavior / Function,Consumption / Oil Level Low But No Leak;Customer Concern (No DTCs);Engine Oil
Recommendation
NORMAL OIL CONSUMPTION: Below are industry standards for normal engine oil consumption: Mileage below 50,000: Normal oil consumption is one quart for each 1,000 miles driven. Mileage above 50,000: Normal oil consumption is one quart for each 750 miles driven. TEST TO DETERMINE ENGINE OIL CONSUMPTION: Operate engine to normal operating temperature. Fill engine oil precisely to FULL mark on dip stick gauge. Use paint pen to mark the engine oil drain plug to prevent tampering. Check engine oil level after 1.000 miles driven. Refer to normal engine oil consumption listed above. POSSIBLE CAUSES FOR EXCESSIVE ENGINE OIL CONSUMPTION: PCV OR CCV SYSTEM: Check the crankcase ventilation system for proper operation. Oil may accumulate in the throttle body or intake manifold. Also, rocker arm lubrication oil flow returns to oil pan through drainback holes in top of cylinder head. Plugged or restricted oil drainback holes may contribute to excessive oil in crankcase ventilation system. SPARK PLUGS: Examine all spark plugs to identify the affected cylinder(s). Spark plug on the affected cylinder(s) will usually be fouled or wet with engine oil. VALVE GUIDES AND VALVE STEM SEALS: Inspect valve guides on the affected cylinder(s). Replace valve stem seals on the affected cylinder(s). PISTON RINGS: Check piston rings on the affected cylinder(s). Piston rings may be too tight / worn / broken / carbon build up in the oil control ring. CYLINDER WALL: Examine the cylinder wall on the affected cylinder(s). Cylinder wall may be severely scuffed. Perform hone procedure on the cylinder wall or replace cylinder block / short engine assembly as required.

Modification Date 08/25/09 10:44 AM


About 1 qt per 1000 is normal, considering oil change intervals are getting longer and longer in the industry this is something to think about. Technically on a 6,000 mile oil change with a 6 qt system it would be "acceptable" to possibly have no oil left by the time the vehicle is due for service.
__________________
-Dustin
Chrysler/Jeep/Dodge Master Technician


Found that in this link:http://www.jeepforum.com/forum/f96/2...ts-oil-857090/

[redzone98]

Has anyone approached the dealer and asked for a leak down test yet?

According to VWoA : the Leak down test is the 2nd step in the warranty process. First you need to Fail (or pass) the high consumption test of 1 Qt per 1K miles. Then The leak down test will be administered.

Im on my 2nd oil consumption test for this car, last time i was consuming, according to the dealer, 1Qt per 1600 miles.

I dont know HOW they determined this because i took this PIC last week.... this oil has 1600 miles on it... and it was 10-30 conventional oil...

so Something is not rite!




roughly 3.25Qts OUT of the motor after 1600 miles. I drained the oil for almost 30 minutes, and drained the oil filter for about 10 minutes. It was about 85 Deg out, and the motor was cool.

the 1Qt per 1000 miles is "Normal" is just a ridiculous statement. My 2011 Ford Fiesta Spec is 10,000 Miles between Changes. According to Chysler, this car would be "OK" to run with no oil for 6,000 miles

[Zambee500]

the 1Qt per 1000 miles is "Normal" is just a ridiculous statement. My 2011 Ford Fiesta Spec is 10,000 Miles between Changes. According to Chysler, this car would be "OK" to run with no oil for 6,000 miles

Yeah, well, that's for Fords. For Chryslers, you can only run the motor "up to" 500 miles without any oil and that's okay. Burning up to 1 qt. per 1k miles is okay, with "up to" 6k mile OCIs, and 5.5 qt. total oil capacity. That leaves, I think, 1/2 (or 0.5) qt short for that last 500 miles. So Chrysler is saying you can drive it 500 miles without any oil. If I understand correctly. Must be some new Fiat mathematics formula or something - not sure exactly how they carry over their "ones" when adding and multiplying.

Happy motoring. (And it'll be happier with AAA Gold, Super-Duper towing plan.)

[redzone98]

Happy motoring. (And it'll be happier with AAA Gold, Super-Duper towing plan.)

Im signing up for AAA today~!

[redzone98]

OK its time for another installment of the Routan Oil Fandango...

I got the results back from the Oil consumption test this time around (2nd go around)

And scored a fantastic score of .7x QT consumed @ 572 Miles.

VWoA and the dealer and going to perform yet ANOTHER Oil consumption test!

this time they really want to make sure i guess.

If I fail (or pass?) the Oil test this 3rd time around, they are doing some other Mystery test (probably a cyl leak down test).

I was speaking with a Reagional Case manager on this today, and turns out they(VW) have already replaced several motors recently with bad Piston Rings !

Willlll the Routan van go under the knife in hopes to fix the problem, or will there be yet another mystery oil test in the works,

well Stay TUNED for another thrilling episode !!!