Username or Email Address
Do you already have an account?
Forgot your password?
  • Log in or Sign up

    VWVortex


    Page 3 of 4 FirstFirst 1234 LastLast
    Results 71 to 105 of 115

    Thread: Facebook IPO next week...

    1. Geriatric Member ValveCoverGasket's Avatar
      Join Date
      Mar 20th, 2002
      Location
      powell's books
      Posts
      35,459
      Vehicles
      '67 rolls royce, '67 mgb gt, '13 tdi, '14 glk350
      05-22-2012 12:55 PM #71
      the real good action may already be over by that point... but at least we'll have the next quarterly to look forward to then

    2. Member
      Join Date
      Jun 19th, 2002
      Location
      CLT NC
      Posts
      5,771
      Vehicles
      A3 Pilot S2K
      05-22-2012 01:09 PM #72
      From Yahoo Finance:

      "And now comes some news about the Facebook (FB) IPO that buyers deserve to be outraged about.

      Reuters' Alistair Barr is reporting that Facebook's lead underwriters, Morgan Stanley (MS), JP Morgan (JPM), and Goldman Sachs (GS) all cut their earnings forecasts for the company in the middle of the IPO roadshow.

      This by itself is highly unusual (I've never seen it during 20 years in and around the tech IPO business).

      But, just as important, news of the estimate cut was passed on only to a handful of big investor clients, not everyone else who was considering an investment in Facebook.

      This is a huge problem, for one big reason:

      Selective dissemination. Earnings forecasts are material information, especially when they are prepared by analysts who have had privileged access to company management. As lead underwriters on the IPO, these analysts would have had much better information about the company than anyone else. So the fact that these analysts suddenly all cut their earnings forecasts at the same time, during the roadshow, and then this information was not passed on to the broader public, is a huge problem. "


      http://finance.yahoo.com/blogs/daily...3Rpb25z;_ylv=3

    3. Senior Member
      Join Date
      Sep 11th, 2000
      Location
      MA
      Posts
      25,330
      05-22-2012 01:32 PM #73
      On pace to be one of the worst large IPOs.

      http://blogs.wsj.com/deals/2012/05/2.../?mod=yahoo_hs

    4. Moderator Harv's Avatar
      Join Date
      Oct 31st, 2004
      Location
      PA
      Posts
      17,464
      Vehicles
      Land Rover - Audi
      05-22-2012 03:12 PM #74
      Wow. Not good for FB.

    5. Member
      Join Date
      Dec 31st, 2005
      Location
      SoCal
      Posts
      16,480
      Vehicles
      Corvette & SV650
      05-22-2012 09:48 PM #75
      Was that retribution for Facebook forcing the underwriters to take a smaller cut?
      Quote Originally Posted by apizzaparty View Post
      never thought once to use my lefty for the brake. sorry in my opinion it is dumb.

    6. Member BetterByDesign's Avatar
      Join Date
      Sep 7th, 2004
      Location
      morgan hill, ca
      Posts
      6,938
      05-23-2012 02:21 PM #76
      Apparantly litigation has begun. Not unusual for any IPO but give it a rest, "investors"

    7. 05-23-2012 02:33 PM #77
      Quote Originally Posted by BetterByDesign View Post
      Apparantly litigation has begun. Not unusual for any IPO but give it a rest, "investors"
      Give what a rest? Suing because information was withheld from them? Facebook & those involved deserve all the lawsuits they get because of it.

    8. Member BetterByDesign's Avatar
      Join Date
      Sep 7th, 2004
      Location
      morgan hill, ca
      Posts
      6,938
      05-24-2012 09:32 AM #78
      Quote Originally Posted by joness0154 View Post
      Give what a rest? Suing because information was withheld from them? Facebook & those involved deserve all the lawsuits they get because of it.
      Right. People relied on information provided to them by underwriters to tell them about....

      Facebook.

    9. 05-24-2012 09:46 AM #79
      Quote Originally Posted by BetterByDesign View Post
      Right. People relied on information provided to them by underwriters to tell them about....

      Facebook.
      Your opinion doesn't mean squat. I wouldn't buy FB either, but selectively telling certain institutional clients about negative information without disclosing it to everyone else is an insider trading violation. People go to jail over that, and rightfully so.

    10. Member BetterByDesign's Avatar
      Join Date
      Sep 7th, 2004
      Location
      morgan hill, ca
      Posts
      6,938
      05-24-2012 09:54 AM #80
      Thanks for opining on my opinion.

    11. 05-24-2012 11:33 AM #81
      Forget Facebook, its Wall Street. This is standard procedure, only this time they got caught. The flash crash and this IPO are going to be the incidents they look back on when they start wondering who killed the golden goose.

    12. Member jnm2.0t's Avatar
      Join Date
      Oct 2nd, 2005
      Location
      Sunnyvale CA
      Posts
      16,954
      Vehicles
      List your car(s) owned here
      05-24-2012 02:42 PM #82
      Quote Originally Posted by BetterByDesign View Post
      Apparantly litigation has begun. Not unusual for any IPO but give it a rest, "investors"
      If the allegations prove true it is reportedly highly likely that they violated securities laws. Why wouldn't they sue?
      They're steppin' on my rhythm and they're stealin' all my lines

      Every day on the bike is a day not in the Fusion.

    13. Senior Member
      Join Date
      Feb 17th, 2003
      Posts
      22,853
      Vehicles
      LG G2 / Notes 3 / Nexus 5
      05-24-2012 02:43 PM #83
      No such thing as IPO investing anymore for the avg investor. The private trading already begun years ago for FB and the prices today are just propped up by the large institutions fishing for dumb day trader.

      The question I wonder is how much equity does these guys have keeping FB ponyed up for the last 2-3 days hovering around the same price. Once FB is cooked, they will probably pull back some and keep paring. I don't see any growth in the company unless Zuckerberg pulls some of his cash and buy out more businesses.

    14. Member sdpauly's Avatar
      Join Date
      Apr 3rd, 2004
      Location
      San Diego
      Posts
      1,669
      Vehicles
      2010 135i, 2008 Taco
      05-25-2012 12:05 PM #84
      LOL!! Yup, 13.80 sounds about right. Of course they never release this kind of analysis to John Q before the IPO, only once they've gotten enough suckers on the hook...

      http://www.marketwatch.com/story/fac...380-2012-05-25
      "Every normal man must be tempted at times to spit on his hands, hoist the black flag, and begin to slit throats." -H. L. Mencken

      The most important thing you might ever watch: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZPWH5TlbloU

    15. Member jnm2.0t's Avatar
      Join Date
      Oct 2nd, 2005
      Location
      Sunnyvale CA
      Posts
      16,954
      Vehicles
      List your car(s) owned here
      06-12-2012 05:55 PM #85
      Anybody ski?

      They're steppin' on my rhythm and they're stealin' all my lines

      Every day on the bike is a day not in the Fusion.

    16. Senior Member beng's Avatar
      Join Date
      May 13th, 2002
      Location
      NutVegas, NJ
      Posts
      30,066
      Vehicles
      Family Truckster
      06-13-2012 02:06 PM #86
      LMAO. What's the magic number.
      1 3 4 5 7 8 8 9 10 15 16 23 32 37 42 44 49

      "I don't know half of you half as well as I should like; and I like less than half of you half as well as you deserve"

    17. 06-13-2012 02:54 PM #87
      read a guy name doug noland at prudent bear . com
      what he says about the facebook debacle.....

      it's quite interesting

    18. Senior Member FlashRedGLS1.8T's Avatar
      Join Date
      Apr 17th, 2001
      Location
      Ohio
      Posts
      20,770
      06-14-2012 01:55 PM #88
      Quote Originally Posted by jnm2.0t View Post
      Anybody ski?

    19. Member
      Join Date
      May 7th, 2002
      Posts
      5,161
      Vehicles
      01 golf gls 1.8T
      06-27-2012 02:20 PM #89
      if ever there was an example of why an individual should never buy an individual stock, it's facebook -


      Unliking Facebook: Investors Respond to Zuckerberg’s Failed IPO

      June 15, 2012 | by Lou Dubose

      “Any investor who can get shares of the Facebook IPO should purchase as many shares as possible.” That was Jim Cramer’s tout on his CNBC Mad Money program, which promises viewers “an in-depth look at Wall Street, stock, and the market.”

      It is Cramer’s good fortune that he is not legally responsible for the bull**** he broadcasts.Trial lawyers who understand securities fraud have already filed lawsuits against Facebook in federal courts on both coasts, representing investors who acted on the sort of hype that Cramer was selling.

      The litigation will take some time. And it will take Facebook public in a way the company didn’t anticipate, as the discovery process opens up the files and e-mail accounts of principals, bankers, and traders who worked the social network’s initial public offering.

      The markets promptly delivered their verdict.

      Ten days after Facebook’s overheated May 18 IPO, investors were dumping the shares at a low of $28.05. That is $14 a share below the highest quote on the day of the offering, when the price was artificially inflated by Morgan Stanley, the book runner on Facebook’s IPO.

      Throughout the first day of the stock offering, Morgan Stanley purchased huge blocks of stock with the intention of creating the illusion of demand. It worked for a day. Even if the investment bankers didn’t get the huge IPO “pop” they were trying to create, they defended their price as the stock opened at $38, climbed to $42, and closed at $38.23.

      One week later, the jig was up and the price was down.

      If you were a retail buyer on May 18, you were the sucker. Or the zucker. You lost. Mark Zuckerberg won. A billionaire many times over, the Facebook founder and CEO finds it easier to absorb the loss of $20 billion in market capitalization than does the small investor absorbing a 30 percent loss in the value of stock purchased 10 days earlier. (On the first week of his honeymoon in Italy, Zuckerberg personally lost $4 billion in net worth.)

      Morgan Stanley’s juicing the stock was perfectly legal, said a futures trader and analyst I spoke with, who added that he “wouldn’t have touched the Facebook IPO with a 10-foot pole.” Investment bankers are expected to get as high a price as possible on the first day a stock is publicly traded. Institutional investors understand that. Some small investors do not.

      The courts will have the final say on the legality of the Facebook offering, but in non-legal terms, how big a fraud was perpetrated on investors (and the American public) on May 18?

      What was wrong with Facebook’s initial public offering?

      Almost everything. Consider:

      • The initial public offering was not really “initial.” It was a secondary offering. Before the company’s stock was publicly traded, certain individuals were allowed to buy shares. In fact, 241,233,615 of the 421 million shares traded on the day of the “initial” public offering were sold by shareholders who already held the stock. One Facebook board member alone sold 50 million shares going into the IPO.

      • A year before the “initial” offering, Goldman Sachs had proffered as much as $1.5 billion in Facebook stock to select wealthy investors, according to Bloomberg News. That deal did not exactly pass the smell test, as the investment bank failed to disclose that that it might sell or hedge its own $375 million investment in Facebook.

      • NASDAQ, the exchange on which Facebook trades, completely botched the offering — or did it? A be-hoodied Zuckerberg rang the opening bell remotely from Facebook’s Menlo Park, California, headquarters. Then nothing happened. For 30 minutes (until markets in Europe closed), NASDAQ couldn’t get Facebook up, and no shares were traded. Once trading opened, there was a two-hour confirmation delay on Facebook trades.

      • NASDAQ’s trading lag worked against the individual buyer (or seller). Barry Ritholtz, a stock market and hedge-fund analyst, reported that while individual investors could not get quotes during NASDAQ’s two-hour outage, high-frequency traders, who use computers to do their work, continued to trade in huge volumes and were able to react to fluctuations in share prices.

      That was the small stuff.

      Facebook stock, Ritholtz wrote in his Big Picture blog, was wildly overpriced “by about 4X.” Yet frenzied investors, enamored with the cinematically enhanced vision of the brainy Zuckerberg starting the social network in his Harvard dorm room, bought it because it was Facebook — the quintessential American success story.

      Too bad they didn’t know what insiders knew.

      According to a shareholders’ lawsuit filed in Berkeley, California, as the company prepared to go public, Morgan Stanley was discreetly warning “a handful of preferred investor clients” that Facebook’s revenue forecasts were lower than what was listed in the prospectus available to the public.

      “Soon after Facebook amended its prospectus, all three analysts at the company’s lead underwriters — Morgan Stanley, JP Morgan Chase, and Goldman Sachs — cut their estimates for Facebook’s Q2 and the full year,” according to one report quoted in the class-action suit filed in Berkeley.

      If you weren’t included in “that handful of preferred investor clients,” you didn’t get that heads up. That may or may not be fraud. But it’s hardly reassuring to retail investors who lost while better-informed investors fared better.

      What is Facebook really worth?

      Forget fundamentals and efficient market theory. The value of Facebook stock on the first day it traded was determined by the same behavior-finance theory that gave us the tech boom and the bust that followed: The value of a stock is whatever investors are willing to pay for it.

      The value of a company is a different matter.

      Roger Smith, a longtime entertainment-industry executive who now works as a media consultant, e-mailed his quick take on Facebook to a few friends, who forwarded along the e-mail as if it were an electronic samizdat. Smith’s “back of the envelope” analysis began with a comparison of market capitalization values reported in the Financial Times.

      Smith wrote that “the current combined market cap for BT Group (the old British Telecom), France Telecom, and Deutsche Telecom was less than what was being accorded Facebook.” Even including Italia Telecom, the combined market cap did not reach $100 billion — while Facebook’s market cap was (then) $104 billion.

      The four European telecoms Smith used in his comparison are profitable companies, by old-fashioned metrics that once mattered. Consider the four 2011 year-end metrics he cites.

      The telecoms’ revenues were $206.5 billion; Facebook’s were $37 billion.
      The telecoms’ operating incomes were $42.5 billion, while Facebook’s were $1.8 billion.
      The telecoms’ total assets were $424.6 billion to Facebook’s $3.0 billion.
      Cash flow from the telecoms’ operations was $55.8 billion; Facebook’s was $1.5 billion.

      Three weeks after the IPO, Facebook’s $104 billion in market cap was down to $57.1 billion.

      Nor are the European telecoms landline dinosaurs; altogether, they have 382 million mobile subscribers paying monthly service charges. Smith concludes that he would sleep better owning a portfolio of these four stocks, which also provide an average yield of 8 percent, than he would if he owned Facebook shares.

      Investors seem to be sleeping better by getting completely out of equities. According to another Financial Times article, which ran six days after the Facebook IPO, institutional investors are shunning shares and moving money into bonds.

      “Few doubt that the old cult of the equity — a six-decade period during which long-term savers loaded their portfolios with shares — has died,” wrote FT reporters John Authers and Kate Burgess.

      Retail investors have also moved out of the stock market. The Facebook fiasco is not likely to bring them back.

    20. 06-29-2012 03:07 PM #90
      ^thanks for that

    21. 07-01-2012 10:45 PM #91
      Facebook's botched IPO does not dissuade me from owning individual stocks.

      It did not take a rocket scientist to see that this was not going to be a good situation.

      I called it ... in post #4 of this thread ... prior to the IPO date.

    22. Member Issam Abed's Avatar
      Join Date
      Feb 12th, 2004
      Location
      EVERYWHERE
      Posts
      13,377
      Vehicles
      91 Audi 80 2.0T
      07-03-2012 12:05 AM #92
      Quote Originally Posted by GoFaster View Post
      Facebook's botched IPO does not dissuade me from owning individual stocks.

      It did not take a rocket scientist to see that this was not going to be a good situation.

      I called it ... in post #4 of this thread ... prior to the IPO date.
      So does that mean you eventually bought into FB or no?

    23. 07-18-2012 05:01 PM #93
      I'm planning to buy 50 shares if FB drops to $27 agin. Then, I'll hold a month or so whenever heads back up to $34-35 to sell. That's a $300 profit including the brokerage fee for the trade. What type of capital gains tax am I looking at paying for a trade like that? I've had good look with these sort of trades in the past.
      First 1987 Oldsmobile Cutlass Ciera SL owned from 1996-1997 driven 10,000 miles. Next-1988 Honda Prelude owned from 1998-1999 driven 12,000 miles. Next-1987 Mustang GT owned from 1999-2000 driven 20,000 miles. Next-1993 Jeep Wrangler Sport owned from 2000-2003 driven 58,000 miles. Next-2003 VW 20th AE GTI owned from 2003-2010. Driven 135,000 miles. Next-2006 Nissan 350Z Touring owned from 2010-2012 driven 35,000 miles. 2007 VW GTI bought 6/2012.

    24. Geriatric Member ValveCoverGasket's Avatar
      Join Date
      Mar 20th, 2002
      Location
      powell's books
      Posts
      35,459
      Vehicles
      '67 rolls royce, '67 mgb gt, '13 tdi, '14 glk350
      07-19-2012 04:24 PM #94
      looking forward to the 26th...
      any bets on which way it goes?

    25. Senior Member
      Join Date
      Sep 11th, 2000
      Location
      MA
      Posts
      25,330
      07-20-2012 09:16 AM #95
      Just got off the phone with our financial guy, Eric. We were joking about Facebook and I mentioned how that idiot on TV (couldn't even think of his name ... Cramer) was pushing Facebook.

      Eric mentioned how Cramer then said he really had reservations about Facebook. Yeah, right.

      Eric said that a client lost big money on three of Cramer's "sure thing" picks. He said the client just called and he said "you'd better not be calling with another Cramer pick, because I'll be really upset if you are."

      Eric said that there's a web site that tracks Cramer's performance, and there's nothing special about Cramer's picks overall.

    26. 07-27-2012 08:54 PM #96
      Wow, I'm glad I didn't get in after the earnings report on the 26th. FB closed at $23.70 today.
      First 1987 Oldsmobile Cutlass Ciera SL owned from 1996-1997 driven 10,000 miles. Next-1988 Honda Prelude owned from 1998-1999 driven 12,000 miles. Next-1987 Mustang GT owned from 1999-2000 driven 20,000 miles. Next-1993 Jeep Wrangler Sport owned from 2000-2003 driven 58,000 miles. Next-2003 VW 20th AE GTI owned from 2003-2010. Driven 135,000 miles. Next-2006 Nissan 350Z Touring owned from 2010-2012 driven 35,000 miles. 2007 VW GTI bought 6/2012.

    27. 07-28-2012 01:21 PM #97
      Quote Originally Posted by scrappy62 View Post
      I'm planning to buy 50 shares if FB drops to $27 agin. Then, I'll hold a month or so whenever heads back up to $34-35 to sell. That's a $300 profit including the brokerage fee for the trade. What type of capital gains tax am I looking at paying for a trade like that? I've had good look with these sort of trades in the past.
      If you hold your investment for one year or less (short term capital gains) you're just going to pay ordinary income tax on that money. So set aside 30-35%+ of what you made to go to the tax man at the end of the year.

    28. 08-01-2012 07:38 PM #98
      Woah! Closed at $20.88 today.
      Last edited by scrappy62; 08-01-2012 at 07:58 PM.
      First 1987 Oldsmobile Cutlass Ciera SL owned from 1996-1997 driven 10,000 miles. Next-1988 Honda Prelude owned from 1998-1999 driven 12,000 miles. Next-1987 Mustang GT owned from 1999-2000 driven 20,000 miles. Next-1993 Jeep Wrangler Sport owned from 2000-2003 driven 58,000 miles. Next-2003 VW 20th AE GTI owned from 2003-2010. Driven 135,000 miles. Next-2006 Nissan 350Z Touring owned from 2010-2012 driven 35,000 miles. 2007 VW GTI bought 6/2012.

    29. Member
      Join Date
      Dec 31st, 2005
      Location
      SoCal
      Posts
      16,480
      Vehicles
      Corvette & SV650
      08-01-2012 08:28 PM #99
      Quote Originally Posted by scrappy62 View Post
      I'm planning to buy 50 shares if FB drops to $27 agin. Then, I'll hold a month or so whenever heads back up to $34-35 to sell.
      Quote Originally Posted by scrappy62 View Post
      Woah! Closed at $20.88 today.
      Did you?
      Quote Originally Posted by apizzaparty View Post
      never thought once to use my lefty for the brake. sorry in my opinion it is dumb.

    30. 08-01-2012 09:27 PM #100
      Quote Originally Posted by Issam Abed View Post
      So does that mean you eventually bought into FB or no?
      Still haven't owned a single share of FB. I STILL think it's overvalued.

      'Course, in hindsight, I should have bought puts on FB as soon as options started trading. I didn't do that, either.

    31. Senior Member
      Join Date
      Sep 11th, 2000
      Location
      MA
      Posts
      25,330
      08-02-2012 08:58 AM #101
      Quote Originally Posted by scrappy62 View Post
      Woah! Closed at $20.88 today.
      Wow!

    32. Member jnm2.0t's Avatar
      Join Date
      Oct 2nd, 2005
      Location
      Sunnyvale CA
      Posts
      16,954
      Vehicles
      List your car(s) owned here
      08-02-2012 05:51 PM #102
      Maybe there won't be a sudden surge in Palo Alt houses after all...
      They're steppin' on my rhythm and they're stealin' all my lines

      Every day on the bike is a day not in the Fusion.

    33. Member jnm2.0t's Avatar
      Join Date
      Oct 2nd, 2005
      Location
      Sunnyvale CA
      Posts
      16,954
      Vehicles
      List your car(s) owned here
      08-02-2012 05:58 PM #103
      $20.04 today.

      It needs a 89.6% rally just to get back to the IPO price. Even worse if you're the sucker that got in at the top of $42.05... you need 109.8%
      They're steppin' on my rhythm and they're stealin' all my lines

      Every day on the bike is a day not in the Fusion.

    34. 08-02-2012 07:38 PM #104
      Stick a fork in this one...

    35. Senior Member
      Join Date
      Feb 17th, 2003
      Posts
      22,853
      Vehicles
      LG G2 / Notes 3 / Nexus 5
      08-08-2012 04:54 PM #105
      Quote Originally Posted by jnm2.0t View Post
      $20.04 today.

      It needs a 89.6% rally just to get back to the IPO price. Even worse if you're the sucker that got in at the top of $42.05... you need 109.8%
      Still over-valued. FB only looks attractive at $9, it's got upsides at that price. Right now FB stockowners are still sellers.

    Page 3 of 4 FirstFirst 1234 LastLast

    Posting Permissions

    • You may not post new threads
    • You may not post replies
    • You may not post attachments
    • You may not edit your posts
    •