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    Thread: mk4 track cars. . lets see what you got.

    1. Member turbonium89's Avatar
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      01-29-2012 12:30 PM #1
      i'm converting my 2002 vr 24v 6spd jetta gli into a track car, and i need some inspiration. post up any pics or videos of what you got. pointers as far as what to install legally for events like time attack and other track days. i hate autox so thats not in my schedule. i'm not very great at it. anyway. lets see what u have
      Living fast in the the slow lane. Still have a vw though. Sometimes that's just enough

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      01-29-2012 03:06 PM #2
      My friend also did it.I will try to take some of his cars pic and post here..Recently I have nothing

    3. Member turbonium89's Avatar
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      01-30-2012 01:07 AM #3
      i will post mine as it in the process
      Living fast in the the slow lane. Still have a vw though. Sometimes that's just enough

    4. 01-31-2012 03:23 PM #4
      Rapidly progressing from a street car that I track into a track car that I drive to work:


      As far as mods go I would leave everything stock (or however you have it now) and put money into seat time. This will get you familiar with the tracks/groups in your area and their respective classing/rules. When YOU are faster than the car, then you can start changing your setup to suit the tracks you'll be on and/or the class you'll be in.

    5. Member turbonium89's Avatar
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      01-31-2012 10:08 PM #5
      thanks for your input and thats what i've been doing. i used to go kart competively and since i bought this car i've gone to 20 or so track days. its time for me to update suspension and i also am working on weight distribution..trying to get as much weight behind the front wheels. i dont have much money, but any ideas for weight. the car is stripped. and im still sitting at 2650lbs. i just deleted the ac and all the lines to the heater core. feels like a 30lb box of crap. also deleting sai and got rid of a bunch of things in the engine bay. battery is going to the truck as we speak.
      Living fast in the the slow lane. Still have a vw though. Sometimes that's just enough

    6. Member turbonium89's Avatar
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      1973 jeep wagoneer, rip 02 gli vr6 24v
      01-31-2012 10:10 PM #6
      pics???
      Living fast in the the slow lane. Still have a vw though. Sometimes that's just enough

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      02-01-2012 07:06 AM #7



    8. 02-01-2012 08:00 AM #8
      Quote Originally Posted by turbonium89 View Post
      thanks for your input and thats what i've been doing. i used to go kart competively and since i bought this car i've gone to 20 or so track days. its time for me to update suspension and i also am working on weight distribution..trying to get as much weight behind the front wheels. i dont have much money, but any ideas for weight. the car is stripped. and im still sitting at 2650lbs. i just deleted the ac and all the lines to the heater core. feels like a 30lb box of crap. also deleting sai and got rid of a bunch of things in the engine bay. battery is going to the truck as we speak.
      I don't know how much more weight you'll be able to shed. Remove airbags, racing seats, and scrape all sound deadening?

    9. Member chois's Avatar
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      02-01-2012 12:13 PM #9
      Quote Originally Posted by turbonium89 View Post
      thanks for your input and thats what i've been doing. i used to go kart competively and since i bought this car i've gone to 20 or so track days. its time for me to update suspension and i also am working on weight distribution..trying to get as much weight behind the front wheels. i dont have much money, but any ideas for weight. the car is stripped. and im still sitting at 2650lbs. i just deleted the ac and all the lines to the heater core. feels like a 30lb box of crap. also deleting sai and got rid of a bunch of things in the engine bay. battery is going to the truck as we speak.
      While I agree with getting it as light as possible, and minimizing weight on the front axle, don't ignore the issue of polar moment of inertia. Putting all the weight as far back as possible, also puts more weight far from the center of gravity and makes it harder to start and stop rotation of the car. IMO fwd racing setup is different enough from rwd setup that 50/50 weight distribution is not a valid goal. Actually I think I read years ago of a BTCC team that achieved 50/50 on their Honda, and ended up adding ballast to the front axle to get the handling 'right'.

      When we move things like batteries and fuel tanks, when possible we put them on the passenger side of the driver compartment, or in the rear footwell area.

      Just food for thought.
      Chris
      2007 GTI 16v, 4 door, 6sp (well really that one is Brandy's)
      2004.5 Passat Wagon 20v, 1.8t, 4mo, 5sp
      1986 GTI 8v road racer - DIYAutoTune.com

    10. 02-01-2012 12:31 PM #10
      ^Good point

      You might find that you'll have to add more downforce up front in order to keep traction if you move too much weight to the rear. Especially with sections like the climbing esses at VIR.

    11. Member chois's Avatar
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      02-01-2012 04:49 PM #11
      Quote Originally Posted by zooyork155 View Post
      ^Good point

      You might find that you'll have to add more downforce up front in order to keep traction if you move too much weight to the rear. Especially with sections like the climbing esses at VIR.
      No. Nothing to do with downforce and traction. More to do with the physics of trying to spin something with weight near its center vs something with weight far from its center.
      Chris
      2007 GTI 16v, 4 door, 6sp (well really that one is Brandy's)
      2004.5 Passat Wagon 20v, 1.8t, 4mo, 5sp
      1986 GTI 8v road racer - DIYAutoTune.com

    12. 02-01-2012 08:39 PM #12
      Exactly! Like accelerating uphill and having the front end get light and understeer.

    13. Member 2 doors's Avatar
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      02-02-2012 01:12 PM #13
      Want to save weight up front? Get rid of that pig of an engine!

      Seriously, I'll post pics of mine from home. Mine's gutted (no sunroof, A/C, carpet, etc.) with an Autopower 4pt bar, race seats and harnesses, Shine Real Street Suspension, camber plates, lower tie bar, Nitto NT-01's on 17x8" wheels, chip, exhaust, Peloquin diff, lightweight flywheel, VR6 clutch and other little stuff.

    14. 02-02-2012 01:52 PM #14
      2doors-
      Curious which camber plates you chose?
      How do you like the peloquin? I can't decide between that and wavetrac.

    15. Member 2 doors's Avatar
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      02-02-2012 03:26 PM #15
      I have the SPC camber plates. I bought them off someone that had never installed them. They do OK, but camber and caster aren't separetly adjustable. If you can spend a bit more, and are really committed, the Ground Control plates that need to have the strut towers cut give more adjustment. I tried adding those lower ball joint spacers, but they caused me to have a halfshaft seperate.

      Wavetrac wasn't around when I bought my Peloquin. If I was doing it now, I'd go wavetrac.

    16. 02-02-2012 06:57 PM #16
      Thanks for the info. I plan to cut the strut caps and go with plates but was curious how much camber/caster adjustment you were able to gain.

      What is it about the Peloquin that you find lacking?

      Not trying to derail this thread but the more info in this forum the better.

    17. Member 2 doors's Avatar
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      02-02-2012 09:45 PM #17
      I haven't found the Peloquin particularly lacking, its just that the design will allow an off the ground wheel to spin (this may be a factor if you like to curb hop). Since the wavetrac is a clutch type, it would still send power to the grounded wheel.

      OP: The next biggest weight savings you could gain would be to replace the stock seats with race ones. Not only that, but you'll be so much better anchored, it makes focusing on driving simpler. It's not glamorous, but if this is a dedicated track car, consider improving the safety factor. One year I spent about $2k on my car and didn't make it any faster - roll bar, 2 race seats, harness, HANS device. Just because you aren't racing doesn't mean you can't spin out in some oil or blow tire and hit a wall. Besides that, it's nice to not have a bruised knee after a weekend at the track from wedging my leg against the door panel.

      My car (Mid-Ohio):
      Last edited by 2 doors; 02-02-2012 at 10:03 PM.

    18. Member chois's Avatar
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      02-03-2012 08:58 AM #18
      Quote Originally Posted by zooyork155 View Post
      Exactly! Like accelerating uphill and having the front end get light and understeer.
      No. More like you are entering a turn and the car will not turn in as quickly as you want/need, then once it IS turning and you are trying to transition quickly back the other way, it takes more time than ideal to get the rotation slowed and going back the other way.
      Chris
      2007 GTI 16v, 4 door, 6sp (well really that one is Brandy's)
      2004.5 Passat Wagon 20v, 1.8t, 4mo, 5sp
      1986 GTI 8v road racer - DIYAutoTune.com

    19. 02-03-2012 09:56 AM #19
      Quote Originally Posted by chois View Post
      No. More like you are entering a turn and the car will not turn in as quickly as you want/need, then once it IS turning and you are trying to transition quickly back the other way, it takes more time than ideal to get the rotation slowed and going back the other way.
      I think we're arguing the same point but I don't think I did a proper job of explaining my example. Perhaps I should have said:
      Turn-in/transitions will be affected by moving more weight to the rear because it slows the weight transfer to the front wheels making the front end feel light/understeer. Especially noticeable when accelerating uphill through esses. Front aero can be used to counteract this effect but is a band-aid and doesn't fix the problem.

    20. Member chois's Avatar
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      02-03-2012 12:11 PM #20
      I think we are talking about the same symptom, but a different cause.

      You are correct that weight on the axle can impact available grip and turn in, and a good air-dam / splitter can definitely improve this - at speed.

      However the polar moment of inertia is a totally separate piece of physics. When the car turns it rotates about some vertical axis. Imagine this axis as though the car is hanging from a cable connected to this point. If the weight is close to this axis of rotation, it will be easier to get it spinning than if it is far from that axis of rotation - regardless of how much friction/grip there is to work with.

      Just like when a kid on the playground gets on the carousel, and starts it spinning slowly. When he moves toward the center the rpms accelerate because it takes less energy to rotate with the mass closer to the center.

      It is the reason that F1 cars are mid engined. It is the reason that a 16V scirroco feels so much less nimble than an A1 Rabbit (those park benches must be the heaviest bumpers ever delivered on a passenger car...).
      Chris
      2007 GTI 16v, 4 door, 6sp (well really that one is Brandy's)
      2004.5 Passat Wagon 20v, 1.8t, 4mo, 5sp
      1986 GTI 8v road racer - DIYAutoTune.com

    21. 02-03-2012 12:56 PM #21
      Bingo!
      My line of thought was more about the longitudinal weight transference than rotation.

      Now that's cleared up, make sure you consult the applicable CCR/Rulebooks if you want to mount the battery inside the cabin. Rear passenger foot well if you'll be maintaining a passenger seat. Otherwise use the battery as ballast in lieu of the passenger seat.
      Last edited by zooyork155; 02-03-2012 at 12:59 PM.

    22. Member 3lfk1ng's Avatar
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      02-08-2012 11:59 AM #22
      My car has not seen the track yet. It will see its first track day sometime before June. It is also my daily driver.

      2004 24v VR6 Gutted. I still have some more weight reduction to perform but I am pretty happy with the weight savings thus far.

      The seats are on custom rails that are 2" lower than the stock seats for a lower center of gravity. They are also moved 2" towards the inside of the car.



    23. Member 1FLiGLi's Avatar
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      02-08-2012 04:32 PM #23
      Quote Originally Posted by 2 doors View Post
      OP: The next biggest weight savings you could gain would be to replace the stock seats with race ones. Not only that, but you'll be so much better anchored, it makes focusing on driving simpler. It's not glamorous, but if this is a dedicated track car, consider improving the safety factor. One year I spent about $2k on my car and didn't make it any faster - roll bar, 2 race seats, harness, HANS device. Just because you aren't racing doesn't mean you can't spin out in some oil or blow tire and hit a wall. Besides that, it's nice to not have a bruised knee after a weekend at the track from wedging my leg against the door panel.
      +1. Agree 100%. Make it safe first. Then make it stop and turn. Add power last.

      When I added my cage and removed my power Recaros and replaced them with race seats/harnesses it made a HUGE difference. The weight savings was nice, but more importantly I feel so much more connected to the car. Prior to the cage/seats/harness I spent most of my time trying to hang on, rather than driving. Now that I'm strapped in (literally) I can focus on my driving. I believe the cage/seats/harness has improved my driving quite a bit.

      My .02.

      FLi

    24. Member turbonium89's Avatar
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      02-12-2012 02:09 PM #24
      thank you again for all the info, debates, and pics/video.
      more more more. . . lol
      anyone have any pics of some mk4 rally car?

      i understand the rotational mass will change quite a bit with the weight changes, and i understand the aero/downforce and they will greatly be intertwined with this build. i have a huge motor and so i think this will b a good enough anchor for the front. i have access to scales and will be going for a 53/47 distribution front to rear. trying to get the lowest center of gravity as possible. i luckily have no sunroof. and thinking about deleting the heater core. the car is taken apart at the moment. i would like to post pics. i have a lot. but i need a photobucket? how do i post.
      this is what i've been doing for the past few weeks

      semi wire tuck, i extended like 30 wires using solder, i undid the entire harness and routed it so its almost invisible. i deleted my a/c compressor and cooler that sits in front of the radiator, got a non a/c belt, got a new tensioner belt pulley and unit, bought a 4bar fuel pressure regulator. relocated the battery to the trunk, relocated my coolant ball to the driver side inbetween the driver shock tower and brake fluid resevoir and painted it flat black. bypassed the throttle body coolant warmer thing so the coolant hoses are much more organised and. i deleted all the a/c hard lines, i relocated the power steering resevoir so its under the passenger front frame rail just behind the head light. i deleted my evap and secondary air injection. fuel lines relocated and routed under the motor mount (that was a bitch) i deleted the fuel leak detection system. and im getting united motorsports race file with custom tune. super stoked to get her back on the road. shes been taken apart for a month now. oh and i've made a catch can for the pcv, so it no longer drains back into the intake. and i'm going to be running a cat less test pipe. then i'm going to get her weighed and dyno'd. looking to be 2600lbs and 205whp and 200wtq
      ..


      3lfk1ng
      i have been admiring your build. did you take out your black cage or have it painted orange?
      what events do you plan on attending. we met in vegas briefly at wustefest last year. i'm planning on a trip up to 034motorsports sometime in the next few weeks and would love to meet up.

      th
      Living fast in the the slow lane. Still have a vw though. Sometimes that's just enough

    25. Member turbonium89's Avatar
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      02-12-2012 02:44 PM #25
      id much rather add weight to where ever i need it than to deal with the weight it has where it has it
      Living fast in the the slow lane. Still have a vw though. Sometimes that's just enough

    26. Member 3lfk1ng's Avatar
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      02-13-2012 02:46 PM #26
      Quote Originally Posted by turbonium89 View Post
      3lfk1ng
      i have been admiring your build. did you take out your black cage or have it painted orange?
      what events do you plan on attending. we met in vegas briefly at wustefest last year. i'm planning on a trip up to 034motorsports sometime in the next few weeks and would love to meet up.

      th
      Aww thank you. Nah, it's welded in there, I just rattle-canned it as well as the interior of the car. You can see more details in the link within my Signature.

      I'll be going to Wuste 2012, maybe we will meet again?

      Were you the gutted Jetta in Barstow?

      Oh very cool, what are you going to 034 for? I plan to use them in the future as well. For now I am just saving up.

      Sure, let me know where you're coming through.
      Last edited by 3lfk1ng; 02-13-2012 at 02:49 PM.

    27. Member turbonium89's Avatar
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      02-14-2012 12:55 AM #27
      going to 034 for dyno, idk, i want to meet them and their shop and get some numbers. also interested in their efi, but its way out of my ball park. i have a lot to go to catch up to your car, but being unemployed is my first problem. haha. need to get job asap, but i'm going with raxles as soon as i can, my inner cv's are playing around too much. also need to replace my 034 dogbone mount as it has cracked. i was running toyo r888's a little after i installed the 034 mounts and it tore the axles and dogbone up nicely.

      i might be getting a 96 a4 v6 quattro 5spd auto from a friend who is fed up with it. might commission 034 to build me a 24v vr swapped a4 quattro. =) but this is only a dream
      Living fast in the the slow lane. Still have a vw though. Sometimes that's just enough

    28. Member Mk1Racer's Avatar
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      02-15-2012 10:22 PM #28
      Quote Originally Posted by 3lfk1ng View Post
      My car has not seen the track yet. It will see its first track day sometime before June. It is also my daily driver.

      2004 24v VR6 Gutted. I still have some more weight reduction to perform but I am pretty happy with the weight savings thus far.

      The seats are on custom rails that are 2" lower than the stock seats for a lower center of gravity. They are also moved 2" towards the inside of the car.


      Quote Originally Posted by MRVW00
      my GF's love to show me their t!ts....and I like to motorboat them so much they call me Chris Craft...

    29. Member 3lfk1ng's Avatar
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      02-16-2012 10:33 AM #29
      Why the facepalm?

      This is a motorsport forum and that it my motorsport build.

    30. 02-16-2012 11:01 AM #30
      Here's some pics of my 2001 Golf 1.8t. Out of commision for now, but hope to be back soon...






    31. Member chois's Avatar
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      02-16-2012 11:10 AM #31
      Quote Originally Posted by 3lfk1ng View Post
      Why the facepalm?

      This is a motorsport forum and that it my motorsport build.
      Because driving a car on the street with a roll cage and no helmet is not so smart. A small incident can kill you much more easily.

      But maybe you just always wear the helmet in this car...
      Chris
      2007 GTI 16v, 4 door, 6sp (well really that one is Brandy's)
      2004.5 Passat Wagon 20v, 1.8t, 4mo, 5sp
      1986 GTI 8v road racer - DIYAutoTune.com

    32. Member 3lfk1ng's Avatar
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      02-16-2012 12:07 PM #32
      @chois
      haha, thank you for your concern. I knew caring Mothers would care for safety, so I designed it accordingly. Eventually it will be a dedicated track car and I will finish routing bars to the front. For now it is designed strictly for safety.

      Safety was my first priority.
      Suspension and Turning second.
      Power third.

      Details of the cage:
      1. It's a half-cage. There are no bars up front to hit my head on (Cage is behind the seats ONLY).
      2. My head is a full 9" from the nearest bar (Top), and even that is ~4" behind the headrest.
      3. I'm strapped into a 6-Point harness that only allows my head to move side to side and front to back. As such there is not a single bar within head striking distance.

      The seats are mounted a full 2" lower than stock on a custom frame that is welded to the chassis.

      Thank you for your concern.

      @WOB-SH573
      RAD! Very cool. Any interior shots? Motor shots?
      Last edited by 3lfk1ng; 02-16-2012 at 12:09 PM.

    33. 02-16-2012 01:22 PM #33
      Quote Originally Posted by 3lfk1ng View Post
      @chois
      @WOB-SH573
      RAD! Very cool. Any interior shots? Motor shots?
      Yes, but on the computer at home.
      The car had the following basic specs:
      1.8t stroked to 2.0, 3071r 450 whp
      245/45/17 V710's
      Weight caged and ready to go with a full tank of gas 2400lbs
      Cage was done by Tom Kelly at Precision Motorsports in Mass.
      The Carbon work was done by me: hood & front splitter

      I hope to bring it back someday, my crank trigger wheel came loose & exploded at Monticello.
      Finished of the motor...
      When I come back it will be with a stroker 1.8t again but I'll go for less power, 350-375. To be honest 450 was WAY to much for the car & this aplication.

      Most current shot...

    34. Member turbonium89's Avatar
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      02-16-2012 02:14 PM #34
      that poor car. holy shiiiiiiight. thats crazy. love the custom carbon work. how much can u feel the front splitter and rear wing? any videos? im thinking of putting large over fenders and running 9 inch wheels with 255/45 series tire 17 or 18 and mayb a small splitter and double cannards on both sides. and for the rear i think im just gonna try an adjustable larger wicker bill spoiler.

      some classes only allow certain width tires correct? or is that normally not an issue?

      what kind of suspension is on ur gti? WOB-SH573. rear sway bar specs? any custom suspenion mods?
      Living fast in the the slow lane. Still have a vw though. Sometimes that's just enough

    35. 02-16-2012 03:09 PM #35
      Quote Originally Posted by turbonium89 View Post
      that poor car. holy shiiiiiiight. thats crazy. love the custom carbon work. how much can u feel the front splitter and rear wing? any videos? im thinking of putting large over fenders and running 9 inch wheels with 255/45 series tire 17 or 18 and mayb a small splitter and double cannards on both sides. and for the rear i think im just gonna try an adjustable larger wicker bill spoiler.

      some classes only allow certain width tires correct? or is that normally not an issue?

      what kind of suspension is on ur gti? WOB-SH573. rear sway bar specs? any custom suspenion mods?
      For suspension I ran:
      Ground Control coilovers
      Ground Control front camber plates
      Ground Control reach articulating perches
      850 front springs, 500 rear
      Shine Racing Service rear sway bar
      Front Sway bar removed
      H2 Sport front spindles & control arms

      Yes, the areo seemed to help, but I was only able to drive it twice before the motor damage.
      there's no video of my car in this final state, altough there is some on youtube from Limerock a few years earlier.
      My only advice to you is not to get to carried away (I did!!) if you're not carefull you end up with a car that's just to fragile, expensive & time consuming to keep running.

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