Shift to neutral at traffic signals?

[JettaVR6mk]

I have read two articles that state the driver should shift to N if the car will be stopped for more than just a moment. Specifically, it was stated that the driver should shift to N while stopped at a red traffic signal.

I have a hard time believing that this transmission was designed to be operated like this. Is there any truth to this?

[JettaVR6mk]

Specifically, it was mentioned that standing still while in D causes the clutch packs to heat up because they are not fully disengaged.

[08 MKV GTI]

If this were true, VW would have this in the owners manual. Also, I think when you are fully stopped in D that the car is already in neutral. That's why we roll back on hills from a stop, and with launch control can rev the engine with 1st gear selected.

[Stopsign32v]

I'm in for this one...

[Rico1]

Oh, hell, I'll feed the fire. Is there any evidence that either 1) keeping the transmission selector in 'D' causes more wear when stopped, or 2) that it uses more fuel?

If no evidence, thread over.

[VWRedux]

Oh, hell, I'll feed the fire. Is there any evidence that either 1) keeping the transmission selector in 'D' causes more wear when stopped, or 2) that it uses more fuel?

If no evidence, thread over.

There's no direct evidence other than owner feedback and work tech complaints to VW's Tech-Line. The clutches are never fully disengaged, and if the DSG is working to the manufacturers specifications, (Borg-Warner's not VAG's) there will be little to no significant premature wear to the clutches. However as the Mecha-Unit wears out, malfunctions, or is simply defective, these clutches do engage erroneously and do cause issues, such as idle creep, surges, unexpected engagement, and premature wear. The entire system depends solely on the precision of the Mechatronic's activation tolerances. Once they go out of whack, it's hard to predict the future of the tranny because each component is so interdependent. Another words, it's a domino effect. A faulty MU can screw up the tranny's other components, such as the clutch packs, fork activators, etc... and switching out the MU for another still leaves the driver with a faulty Clutch Packs, etc... it's not a pretty picture... which usually ends up with a whole new DSG being needed.

[Rico1]

There's no direct evidence other than owner feedback and work tech complaints to VW's Tech-Line. The clutches are never fully disengaged, and if the DSG is working to the manufacturers specifications, (Borg-Warner's not VAG's) there will be little to no significant premature wear to the clutches. However as the Mecha-Unit wears out, malfunctions, or is simply defective, these clutches do engage erroneously and do cause issues, such as idle creep, surges, unexpected engagement, and premature wear. The entire system depends solely on the precision of the Mechatronic's activation tolerances. Once they go out of whack, it's hard to predict the future of the tranny because each component is so interdependent. Another words, it's a domino effect. A faulty MU can screw up the tranny's other components, such as the clutch packs, fork activators, etc... and switching out the MU for another still leaves the driver with a faulty Clutch Packs, etc... it's not a pretty picture... which usually ends up with a whole new DSG being needed.

An excellent description of how interdependent the components of these marvelous modern systems are....and it makes me more uneasy about buying a car with DSG than I was before I read it. The chances are any VW we bought would have an MT anyhow, but......

[NJ_Cipher]

If this were true, VW would have this in the owners manual. Also, I think when you are fully stopped in D that the car is already in neutral. That's why we roll back on hills from a stop, and with launch control can rev the engine with 1st gear selected.

Actually I believe it is in the manual. I'll go research what page I read it on.

[lkfoster]

100k miles on our '04 TT 3.2 and no problem yet with not shifting to N at stoplights.

[jfolt]

This may have some truth to it... I have about 56k miles on my GTI and recently I've been noticing an intermittent rubbing sound when stopped. I can hear it when the tranny is in R, D, and S. Goes away in P and N. Any one else ever notice that?

[cosminidis]

Yes, mine does it as well. If you look at instant fuel consumption on BC you'll notice it's higher in D, R or S than in N.
The manual says you don't have to shift to N at red lights, but it doesn't say if you are allowed to shift to N when coasting for instance. So I see the red light ahead, I have some speed, am I allowed to shift to N when approaching the red light?

[jfolt]

I wouldn't shift into N when coasting to a stop. That puts more stress on the brakes since the engine is no longer helping engine break and I believe it actually burns more fuel than leaving it in D. Reasoning is you burn more idling than you do coasting w/o throttle since the rotation of the wheels is keeping the engine going without need for gas, albeit it's probably a negligible amount. It's also probably not good to shift back into D if you're still coasting as it may cause unnecessary stress to the tranny/clutch if you're not in the correct RPM range/gear. That being said, people with manual trannys do this so you can too if you want. I just don't think it's necessary personally.

[cosminidis]

I agree, it's not necessary. The thing is that the engine break drives me crazy. I can't stop gradually because the tranny downgrades from 4th to 3rd to 2nd with a hard engine break. I don't care for fuel savings with engine breaking, I'd rather have a smooth stop to the red light. I am still not convinced that there are no negative side effects for the DSG when shifting to N when stopping at the red light. Any other thoughts?