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    Thread: No S4 Avant, no A4 Avant, now no A3 Sportback?!?! WTF Audi?

    1. Member tincanman99's Avatar
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      03-15-2012 10:21 PM #36
      Quote Originally Posted by VR6Now View Post
      Personally, I don't think there is room in the line up for both the Q3 and A3 5dr if they decided to bring more than the 2.5TFSI over. A Q3 TDI or 2.0 TSI would overlap with the A3 in a market where cute-utes are growing in sales and wagons are fading.

      As the A4 moves up in price, it does make some room for another sedan which do sell better in the states.
      The problem will be that the A3 sedan wont be radically cheaper than the A4. Just like the current A3 is not radically cheaper than the current A4. Americans will look at it and say for a little more money I can buy the A4 so why bother. Look at the 1 series if you want a text book example of this. People look at the 1 and say its just a little cheaper than a 3 Series so they go buy the 3 Series. I see the same thing happening with an A3 sedan and an A4 sedan.

      The current A3 is very different than the A4. I bought mine after I saw it in person. I didnt even know they had brought it to the US. I think its a great car and is very practical with the hatch and folding back seat. This is something the A4 sedan does not have. Sure the seat folds but you cant really put stuff in it the way you can with the hatch.

      Like I said, if they dont bring it in I will just buy a GTI or a Mini Cooper Countryman. Not a big deal though at the rate I keep my cars I figure its got at least 10 more years before I think about buying . I have a VW Golf thats 22 years old and is still streetable .

    2. 03-15-2012 10:53 PM #37
      The current A3 is 5k cheaper than the A4 base price to base price. The A6 is closer by a marginal amount to the A4 (base car to base car) than the A3->A4. Thus, this would not be anything new in the Audi product line or the product lines of other auto makers.

      At the end of the day, I don't think Audi is going to change their minds on this point. We are getting the sedan and there may be an outside chance at the cabrio. VW & Audi are very slow, deliberate organizations that are risk adverse. Bold just doesn't seem to be in their corporate DNA. They have spoken and the consumers will dictate if they were right. I used to view Audi as sort of a maverick but I think those days are gone.
      Last edited by VR6Now; 03-15-2012 at 11:03 PM.

    3. Member TWinbrook46636's Avatar
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      03-15-2012 11:47 PM #38
      Sounds like Audi offered the A3 Sportback but Audi of America refused...


      “We decided not to take it,” considering wagons simply don’t connect with U.S. buyers, noted Johan de Nysschen, CEO of Audi of America. Instead, the model coming to the States is a new sedan that “doesn’t share a single body panel with this car.”

      According to de Nysschen, it took a lot of effort to convince the corporate parent to develop the sedan, what with most other markets happy to stick with a wagon.
      Last edited by TWinbrook46636; 03-15-2012 at 11:57 PM.

    4. 03-16-2012 01:00 AM #39
      It's surprising all the manufacturers with a small wagon/5-door hatch offering. The Q3 has probably doomed the A3 sportback here, but part of me thinks there's no way Audi won't bring the sportback. Does Audi really need a 6th(?) sedan offering?

      Other "sportback" offerings off the top of my head:

      BMW
      Volvo (ex-v50 and now C series?)
      Saab (does Saab count?)
      Subaru
      Mazda
      Ford
      Lexus
      Toyota
      Kia
      Hyundai

    5. Member tincanman99's Avatar
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      03-16-2012 08:03 AM #40
      Quote Originally Posted by TWinbrook46636 View Post
      Sounds like Audi offered the A3 Sportback but Audi of America refused...


      “We decided not to take it,” considering wagons simply don’t connect with U.S. buyers, noted Johan de Nysschen, CEO of Audi of America. Instead, the model coming to the States is a new sedan that “doesn’t share a single body panel with this car.”

      According to de Nysschen, it took a lot of effort to convince the corporate parent to develop the sedan, what with most other markets happy to stick with a wagon.
      I guess he didnt look around and notice the 5 trillion SUV's on the road here. Duh. Unless the A3 sedan is radically cheaper than the A4, its not going to fly here especially as most A4's are leased.

      Whatever, I will just go buy a GTI or Mini Cooper Countryman. A friend of mine has the Countryman and its a really nice car.

    6. Member maverickar15's Avatar
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      03-17-2012 11:25 AM #41
      IMHO except quattro, Audi doesn't have anything unique on any other German car manufacturers if you take the whole hatch / Avant segment out of the game.

      Which means my next car is either a VW GTI or BMW F30 wagon. Too bad neither of these look as good as good as Audi hatch / Avant, but I can't buy it if Audi doesn't offer it..
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    7. Member michA3er's Avatar
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      03-19-2012 04:38 PM #42
      Quote Originally Posted by VR6Now View Post
      Personally, I don't think there is room in the line up for both the Q3 and A3 5dr if they decided to bring more than the 2.5TFSI over. A Q3 TDI or 2.0 TSI would overlap with the A3 in a market where cute-utes are growing in sales and wagons are fading.

      As the A4 moves up in price, it does make some room for another sedan which do sell better in the states.
      Maybe, Audi thinks they need an A3 sedan in order to compete with the Buick Verano and the Q3 to go against the Encore!

      After seeing the Q3 again in Geneva and comparing it against the new A3 it really comes across is being outdated already, especially in the interior. With Audi going all out to give the A3 their absolute latest infotainment systems the Q3 comes across is being already a half-generation behind, which it is since it is not MQB based.

      I've said it before. I really like the new A3, but I will never consider a sedan. I just don't understand Audi's logic in pissing away their current A3 owner base.

    8. Member michA3er's Avatar
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      03-19-2012 04:41 PM #43
      Quote Originally Posted by maverickar15 View Post
      IMHO except quattro, Audi doesn't have anything unique on any other German car manufacturers if you take the whole hatch / Avant segment out of the game.

      Which means my next car is either a VW GTI or BMW F30 wagon. Too bad neither of these look as good as good as Audi hatch / Avant, but I can't buy it if Audi doesn't offer it..
      The next Golf RS could look especially tempting to me, especially if it gets the powertrain from the TT-RS as reported in Auto Bild!

    9. 03-20-2012 11:52 AM #44
      Quote Originally Posted by michA3er View Post
      The next Golf RS could look especially tempting to me, especially if it gets the powertrain from the TT-RS as reported in Auto Bild!
      maybe in germany, here audi sells 200 horse stylized grocery getters in that segment

    10. Member djdub's Avatar
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      03-29-2012 10:27 AM #45
      No updates to this entire forum (A3 MQB) for a while now and this is still the top thread. Hopefully someone at Audi North America is getting a little bit of a clue. I really hope they reconsider bringing the hatches.
      VWoA/AoA: Hatch (Golf R) or Sportback (S3) or Avant (B9 S4)

    11. Member Issam Abed's Avatar
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      06-23-2012 02:49 AM #46
      Quote Originally Posted by Travis Grundke View Post
      With a sales volume of only ~100,000 units per year in North America, Audi of America cannot afford to bring every single niche model to these shores.
      Sorry but I find a flaw in this.
      Audi is not "affording" anything. If the end user (the customer) wants a specific Audi why can they not get it? In the caribbean and latin america you can walk into an Audi dealership and pick any vehicle you want with any engine you want.
      I fail to see the logic in Audi of America not wanting to bring X or Y car over here. Maybe my economics are flawed but if I am in the market for an Audi (i.e. I have the $$) why would Audi try and tell me what I "should" buy vs what I "want" to buy?

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      06-23-2012 04:04 AM #47
      Quote Originally Posted by Issam Abed View Post
      Sorry but I find a flaw in this.
      Audi is not "affording" anything. If the end user (the customer) wants a specific Audi why can they not get it? In the caribbean and latin america you can walk into an Audi dealership and pick any vehicle you want with any engine you want.
      I fail to see the logic in Audi of America not wanting to bring X or Y car over here. Maybe my economics are flawed but if I am in the market for an Audi (i.e. I have the $$) why would Audi try and tell me what I "should" buy vs what I "want" to buy?
      The US is not a small country with lax regulations where you can drive around cars with no doors, seatbelts, instrument consoles, mirrors or seats. There is a myriad of emission tests, crash tests, in which they would have to make lots of modifications to the existing car before they can sell it here. Plus the perpetual attempt to make the U$D ever so cheaper by the F3ds (and they say Chin4 is manipulating their currency. The U$ is doing the same thing, but does not have to hold one penny in reserve currency) makes it much less profitable to export to the U$, especially for low margin models. You think with the 3uro on the verge of collapse, it would have devaluated...but apparently not..There is no Euro central bank manipulating the currency.

    13. Member Travis Grundke's Avatar
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      06-23-2012 09:21 AM #48
      Quote Originally Posted by Issam Abed View Post
      Sorry but I find a flaw in this.
      Audi is not "affording" anything. If the end user (the customer) wants a specific Audi why can they not get it? In the caribbean and latin america you can walk into an Audi dealership and pick any vehicle you want with any engine you want.
      I fail to see the logic in Audi of America not wanting to bring X or Y car over here. Maybe my economics are flawed but if I am in the market for an Audi (i.e. I have the $$) why would Audi try and tell me what I "should" buy vs what I "want" to buy?
      Issam -

      The issue is the cost to federalize the cars for one; it's also the ability to provide sales, marketing, advertising, dealership and warranty support for another. The more product in your portfolio the higher the cost to support that product. If you're only selling a few dozen or hundred or even a few thousand per year it may not be worth it unless the margins are sufficiently large enough.

      Before you even cross that hurdle there is the problem of federalization and the costs associated with complying with US regulations for everything from specific turn signals to bumper performance, EPA compliance, crash test simulations, etc. It's very costly.

    14. Member Issam Abed's Avatar
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      06-23-2012 11:54 AM #49
      Quote Originally Posted by Travis Grundke View Post
      Issam -

      The issue is the cost to federalize the cars for one; it's also the ability to provide sales, marketing, advertising, dealership and warranty support for another. The more product in your portfolio the higher the cost to support that product. If you're only selling a few dozen or hundred or even a few thousand per year it may not be worth it unless the margins are sufficiently large enough.

      Before you even cross that hurdle there is the problem of federalization and the costs associated with complying with US regulations for everything from specific turn signals to bumper performance, EPA compliance, crash test simulations, etc. It's very costly.
      I understand that very well but we are talking A3 3 door vs A3 5 door. Not exactly a huge difference there other than the #'s of doors.

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      06-24-2012 02:18 AM #50
      Quote Originally Posted by Issam Abed View Post
      I understand that very well but we are talking A3 3 door vs A3 5 door. Not exactly a huge difference there other than the #'s of doors.
      Not to the regulators. Different distance between pillars, sill length, all sorts of factors will cause it to have different passenger cell strength for front/side crash or rollover tests. You can't explain that to the regulators, nor can you try to hand them an envelope of cash because there are independent testing out there.

      If you think that is the case, then all VW has to do is test one MQB platformed car and pretty much import every VW transverse engined auto into the US with no further testing or redesign.

      Porsche could have said that their 959 looks similar to their 911 so it should have passed regulation?

    16. Member Travis Grundke's Avatar
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      06-24-2012 11:47 AM #51
      Quote Originally Posted by LWNY View Post
      Not to the regulators. Different distance between pillars, sill length, all sorts of factors will cause it to have different passenger cell strength for front/side crash or rollover tests. You can't explain that to the regulators, nor can you try to hand them an envelope of cash because there are independent testing out there.

      If you think that is the case, then all VW has to do is test one MQB platformed car and pretty much import every VW transverse engined auto into the US with no further testing or redesign.

      Porsche could have said that their 959 looks similar to their 911 so it should have passed regulation?
      Quoted for truth. It would be wonderful if the EU and US could put together a similar set of standards to reduce the costs involved.

    17. Member Issam Abed's Avatar
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      06-24-2012 12:58 PM #52
      Quote Originally Posted by LWNY View Post

      Porsche could have said that their 959 looks similar to their 911 so it should have passed regulation?
      Chalk vs cheese comparison.

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      06-24-2012 04:15 PM #53
      it's an interesting approach to marketing. while bmw attempts to create a car for every little niche, (x1,x3,x5,x6, 6 series 4 door coupe with a 4 series 4 door coupe and 2 series 4 door coupe on the way) audi seems to be doing the exact opposite by simplifying their lineup going after what they perceive as the NA mass appeal probably hoping that people wanting an a3 sportback will go for the a3 sedan. it's unfortunate because they are simply alienating a lot of enthusiasts who only want avants or hatches and in my case, only want manual transmissions. i have a manual a4 avant and am really annoyed the a4 avant has gone auto only. this means i'm buying a 3 series wagon next year. sorry audi.

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      06-28-2012 12:05 AM #54
      I find the whole thing to be really odd. I know they are introducing the Q3 To go with the Q5 and Q7 and all of these are nice and all, but to only offer an allroad as the only avant offering for NA is just

      I guess I'll be hanging on to my B7 for like forever.....
      And anyone out there with a B7 A4 or S4 Avant with a manual trans, your cars are going to be the last of the breed? going extinct ?
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    20. Member dmorrow's Avatar
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      06-28-2012 08:20 AM #55
      Quote Originally Posted by kevlartoronto View Post
      it's an interesting approach to marketing. while bmw attempts to create a car for every little niche, (x1,x3,x5,x6, 6 series 4 door coupe with a 4 series 4 door coupe and 2 series 4 door coupe on the way) audi seems to be doing the exact opposite by simplifying their lineup going after what they perceive as the NA mass appeal probably hoping that people wanting an a3 sportback will go for the a3 sedan. it's unfortunate because they are simply alienating a lot of enthusiasts who only want avants or hatches and in my case, only want manual transmissions. i have a manual a4 avant and am really annoyed the a4 avant has gone auto only. this means i'm buying a 3 series wagon next year. sorry audi.
      I think the BMW 1 series 5 door would compete with the current A3 and they don't bring it here (or a 4 door). Seems like they have their limits also, maybe in the future things will change. When I price out a 3 series wagon, with destination it is $38,395 without changing anything including the color.

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      06-28-2012 04:53 PM #56
      the 1 series will soon be transformed as well. rumour has it they will be producing a 1 or 2 series sedan within a couple years. i'm a little baffled as to why bmw hasn't tried to bring the 5 door hatch given they are bringing/producing everything else under the sun. as for audi, they definitely needs to fill in their lineup, esp for the a4 and a6. ie, more engine options (including diesels), manual transmissions for all engine options and how about an a5 sportback? a4 avant not just an allroad. i'd love to see audi produce a mini version of the a7. (a3 hatch?)
      Last edited by kevlartoronto; 07-01-2012 at 09:01 AM.

    22. Member Woj's Avatar
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      07-13-2012 09:38 AM #57
      Quote Originally Posted by tincanman99 View Post
      I am NOT interested in an A3 sedan. As it was when I bought my A3 in 2007 the sales guy pushed me to the A4. What part of I dont want a sedan do they not understand.

      My A3 is loaded and easily cost as much as an A4 but the driving experience is very different. Its a smaller car and drives like a smaller car. The A4 has become a quite large car now, its hardly a compact sedan.

      Frankly I dont see the A3 sedan selling huge numbers for the simple fact that if the price is almost the same as the A4 and the A3 is smaller than the A4 who will want it? Its the same issue with the BMW 1 series.

      That being said if there is no A3 hatch I will just buy a GTI or a Mini. I have 0 interest in Audi's sedans.

      If Audi wants to alienate the enthusiast segment in exchange for the broader market to make more $$ than go for it. Just remember the enthusiast market is what kept your brand alive when you were in the hole. To the general public, Audi is another Lexus.
      You may want to reconsider your rant...I tried an A3 before buying an A4 B8 and felt that the new drivetrain and chassis more than made up for the size change. The A3 drove like a ten year old design. The 2011 A4 (daily driver) does a lot of things quite well. Of course, I would prefer wagon, but the 6MT my A4 sedan works well and with decent suspension mods it works well enough.
      I came from 2 Minis, 3 GTIs and a 135i. An S4 Avant would be great but, as a realist, I know that that they will never import niche vehicles.
      Just look at the sales of the dumbed down Jetta and Passat in this country. That sealed the fate of the new A3/S3.
      Unfortunate, but true.

    23. Member Travis Grundke's Avatar
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      07-13-2012 10:02 AM #58
      Quote Originally Posted by Woj View Post
      You may want to reconsider your rant...I tried an A3 before buying an A4 B8 and felt that the new drivetrain and chassis more than made up for the size change. The A3 drove like a ten year old design. The 2011 A4 (daily driver) does a lot of things quite well. Of course, I would prefer wagon, but the 6MT my A4 sedan works well and with decent suspension mods it works well enough.
      I came from 2 Minis, 3 GTIs and a 135i. An S4 Avant would be great but, as a realist, I know that that they will never import niche vehicles.
      Just look at the sales of the dumbed down Jetta and Passat in this country. That sealed the fate of the new A3/S3.
      Unfortunate, but true.
      I have to agree with this: I had a 2012 A4 S-Line loaner for a few days a few months ago and sure, the car is larger, but the new drivetrain, suspension and overall dynamics of the car made my '06 A3 Sport feel like junk in comparison.

      I REALLY hope that the chassis dynamics are significantly improved on the MQB A3 to bring them up to par (or close to) the current A4. My biggest problem with the A3 is that it struggles mightily with road imperfections and has very poor damping. The A4 really soaked up the road nicely and while it felt larger, it never felt ponderous nor loafed around poorly.

    24. 07-13-2012 08:27 PM #59
      Quote Originally Posted by kevlartoronto View Post
      the 1 series will soon be transformed as well.
      there is hope. I read they are coming out with several more sport variants of the 135 one of which will be x drive, 330 hp and awd sign me up cuz you know that's not coming here from audi

    25. Member djdub's Avatar
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      07-14-2012 04:30 AM #60
      Where are the moderators? Someone like George or Jamie I would think knows something of this topic by now...what's the scoop boys? What is the US market plan for the A3? I would imagine we are right around the corner from release?
      VWoA/AoA: Hatch (Golf R) or Sportback (S3) or Avant (B9 S4)

    26. Member Travis Grundke's Avatar
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      07-14-2012 08:45 AM #61
      Quote Originally Posted by djdub View Post
      Where are the moderators? Someone like George or Jamie I would think knows something of this topic by now...what's the scoop boys? What is the US market plan for the A3? I would imagine we are right around the corner from release?
      Word has been very difficult to come by. Based on the bits and pieces out there, expect an autoshow reveal this autumn/early winter and US sales to start about 10-12 months from now.

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      07-14-2012 04:25 PM #62
      Evrything I've read in all the car mags say we are getting the sedan in various power outputs. The A3 hatch is going to be an electric or some form of hybrid only. SO all those that want a hatchback had better start looking elsewhere. Maybe the new Merc A class?

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