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    Thread: No S4 Avant, no A4 Avant, now no A3 Sportback?!?! WTF Audi?

    1. Member dmorrow's Avatar
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      03-10-2012 10:21 AM #26
      Quote Originally Posted by Buran View Post
      I looked at used A3s when I thought I'd need to replace my GTI. I thought the next A3 would be my next car some years from now when my beloved GTI does bite the dust. But Audi's decided that I, as a hatchback/wagon buyer, am "collateral damage". I can't even pay a bit more to get a nice A4 avant anymore.

      I don't want a small SUV option. I want the option of a car.

      Oh, hey, BMW has decided that it's going to deliberately support wagon buyers like me even though there aren't as many of us. Hey, look, those of us who want practicality and like the wagon/estate style like to know we're appreciated. Hey, look, once we form a lasting bond with a carmaker we're likely to return to that carmarker -- as long as they make what we want.

      Hey, look, there's an AWD version, if I want.

      Hey, look, I can have it delivered to me in Germany. Nice vacation. I've wanted to go there for a while now.

      Hello, 328 AWD wagon.

      Goodbye, Audi. Goodbye, decontented VW.

      From looking at BMW's site it looks like the 328i AWD Manual wagon starts at $40,395 (includes Destination).

      The A3 AWD starts at $31,725 (includes Destination).

      Maybe I missed something but it looks like different price points.

    2. Member Buran's Avatar
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      03-10-2012 12:45 PM #27
      If there is no A3 that I am willing to buy, then there's no point in comparing at all, is there? Audi won't even have a price point by then for me to look at.

      I still could get a non-AWD small wagon from BMW, a vehicle that Audi is no longer willing to sell me. (Whether or not any fully-loaded -- tech packages, nav, the works) used A3s will be on the market by then is unknown. I sure couldn't find much in the way of options when I thought my black-ice crunch back in January had probably totalled my all-options 2007 GTI).

    3. Member djdub's Avatar
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      03-10-2012 03:12 PM #28
      This sucks so much. :-(
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    4. 03-13-2012 07:46 AM #29
      Quote Originally Posted by dmorrow View Post
      Producing everything for everyone isn't going to happen and I am sure they realize it will cause them to lose some customers. Right now some complain about not having the AWD diesel or the AWD gas manual and I am sure this caused them to lose some customers. Time will tell where they decide to draw the line.
      No, they don't realize it. They just think that people will suck it up and buy the sedan. IF Audi truly understood that thousands of otherwise happy current sportback customers were pissed that they couldn't replace their cars, don't you think that they'd make it? Audi sells that rediculous A7 in pittifully small numbers every month and they're still bringing over the S7, which will sell in the teens, if they're lucky.

      This isn't Audi being clever or realistic, it's Audi being stupid and driving customers away to Mini and BMW where such things can be had.

    5. Member dmorrow's Avatar
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      03-13-2012 09:15 AM #30
      Quote Originally Posted by FractureCritical View Post
      No, they don't realize it. They just think that people will suck it up and buy the sedan. IF Audi truly understood that thousands of otherwise happy current sportback customers were pissed that they couldn't replace their cars, don't you think that they'd make it? Audi sells that rediculous A7 in pittifully small numbers every month and they're still bringing over the S7, which will sell in the teens, if they're lucky.

      This isn't Audi being clever or realistic, it's Audi being stupid and driving customers away to Mini and BMW where such things can be had.
      You and they may have differing opinions about how many customers they will lose but I guarantee that they understand that with fewer variations the potential market goes down. I am sure they made a decision to bring over the TDI based on projections of how many it would sell. Every business out there understands this. Your local donut shop doesn't want to make 40 different kinds of donuts (and throw away some of each), they do it to increase sales. It's crazy to think that if they don't bring the A3 5 door that all of these customers will go to the 4 door.

      If you are right, why don't they bring over the 3 door? They don't realize that some people would buy it that aren't currently buying the 5 door?

      YTD the A7 (Jan. & Feb) the A7 is selling in greater numbers than the A3 and I am sure they make much more profit per car for the A7. Maybe one A7 equals the profit for three A3's?

      From here http://www.quattroholic.com/2012/03/...bruary-us.html

      A7 - 1227 YTD A3- 1054 YTD. Last year, same time period, A3 - 1101 so it isn't a sudden drop for the A3. Now bring over both variations and numbers would go up but by how much?

    6. 03-14-2012 12:55 PM #31
      Quote Originally Posted by dmorrow View Post
      If you are right, why don't they bring over the 3 door? They don't realize that some people would buy it that aren't currently buying the 5 door?

      YTD the A7 (Jan. & Feb) the A7 is selling in greater numbers than the A3 and I am sure they make much more profit per car for the A7. Maybe one A7 equals the profit for three A3's?

      From here http://www.quattroholic.com/2012/03/...bruary-us.html

      A7 - 1227 YTD A3- 1054 YTD. Last year, same time period, A3 - 1101 so it isn't a sudden drop for the A3. Now bring over both variations and numbers would go up but by how much?
      The A7 may be the single greatest flop of the brand. 1227 A7's? that's pathetic. Last time I took my car in for service, my dealer had 11 of them on the lot. that's over $1M in inventory just sitting and bleeding the dealer of interest payments. Funny how Audi never talks about that part, huh? Don't you also find it just a little funny that Audi sells only handful more A7's after spending MILLIONS in marketing the thing, (there go your profits!) while the little A3, which doesn't even get a picture on a milk carton in terms of advertizing investment, sells just as well.

      The A3 is realtively cheap to put on the lot, and the CAR TYPE is a proven seller. BMW sells tons of Minis! Let's be honest here: Audi just plain sucks at selling anything that isn't a white/black/grey SUV or sedan. When confronted with something that doesn't fit that mold, they change it to fit.

    7. 03-14-2012 09:39 PM #32
      Quote Originally Posted by dmorrow View Post
      YTD the A7 (Jan. & Feb) the A7 is selling in greater numbers than the A3 and I am sure they make much more profit per car for the A7. Maybe one A7 equals the profit for three A3's?
      Could the sales numbers of the A7s to A3s have something to do with supply. Me thinks yes. Cars.com shows 1258 A7s and only 583 A3s nationwide. Cars.com doesn't represent all U.S. inventory but I'd bet the proportions are correct. You can't sell what you don't have. Also, the new A7 better be out pacing a car that's only had minor updates in the course of six years.

      My local dealer has no A3s whatsoever and quite a few A7s.

    8. Member tincanman99's Avatar
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      03-15-2012 03:57 AM #33
      I am NOT interested in an A3 sedan. As it was when I bought my A3 in 2007 the sales guy pushed me to the A4. What part of I dont want a sedan do they not understand.

      My A3 is loaded and easily cost as much as an A4 but the driving experience is very different. Its a smaller car and drives like a smaller car. The A4 has become a quite large car now, its hardly a compact sedan.

      Frankly I dont see the A3 sedan selling huge numbers for the simple fact that if the price is almost the same as the A4 and the A3 is smaller than the A4 who will want it? Its the same issue with the BMW 1 series.

      That being said if there is no A3 hatch I will just buy a GTI or a Mini. I have 0 interest in Audi's sedans.

      If Audi wants to alienate the enthusiast segment in exchange for the broader market to make more $$ than go for it. Just remember the enthusiast market is what kept your brand alive when you were in the hole. To the general public, Audi is another Lexus.

    9. 03-15-2012 09:29 AM #34
      Personally, I don't think there is room in the line up for both the Q3 and A3 5dr if they decided to bring more than the 2.5TFSI over. A Q3 TDI or 2.0 TSI would overlap with the A3 in a market where cute-utes are growing in sales and wagons are fading.

      As the A4 moves up in price, it does make some room for another sedan which do sell better in the states.
      Last edited by VR6Now; 03-15-2012 at 09:34 AM.

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      03-15-2012 09:04 PM #35
      Quote Originally Posted by tincanman99 View Post
      I am NOT interested in an A3 sedan. As it was when I bought my A3 in 2007 the sales guy pushed me to the A4. What part of I dont want a sedan do they not understand.

      My A3 is loaded and easily cost as much as an A4 but the driving experience is very different. Its a smaller car and drives like a smaller car. The A4 has become a quite large car now, its hardly a compact sedan.

      Frankly I dont see the A3 sedan selling huge numbers for the simple fact that if the price is almost the same as the A4 and the A3 is smaller than the A4 who will want it? Its the same issue with the BMW 1 series.

      That being said if there is no A3 hatch I will just buy a GTI or a Mini. I have 0 interest in Audi's sedans.


      If Audi wants to alienate the enthusiast segment in exchange for the broader market to make more $$ than go for it. Just remember the enthusiast market is what kept your brand alive when you were in the hole. To the general public, Audi is another Lexus.
      Right on the money!!

    11. Member tincanman99's Avatar
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      03-15-2012 10:21 PM #36
      Quote Originally Posted by VR6Now View Post
      Personally, I don't think there is room in the line up for both the Q3 and A3 5dr if they decided to bring more than the 2.5TFSI over. A Q3 TDI or 2.0 TSI would overlap with the A3 in a market where cute-utes are growing in sales and wagons are fading.

      As the A4 moves up in price, it does make some room for another sedan which do sell better in the states.
      The problem will be that the A3 sedan wont be radically cheaper than the A4. Just like the current A3 is not radically cheaper than the current A4. Americans will look at it and say for a little more money I can buy the A4 so why bother. Look at the 1 series if you want a text book example of this. People look at the 1 and say its just a little cheaper than a 3 Series so they go buy the 3 Series. I see the same thing happening with an A3 sedan and an A4 sedan.

      The current A3 is very different than the A4. I bought mine after I saw it in person. I didnt even know they had brought it to the US. I think its a great car and is very practical with the hatch and folding back seat. This is something the A4 sedan does not have. Sure the seat folds but you cant really put stuff in it the way you can with the hatch.

      Like I said, if they dont bring it in I will just buy a GTI or a Mini Cooper Countryman. Not a big deal though at the rate I keep my cars I figure its got at least 10 more years before I think about buying . I have a VW Golf thats 22 years old and is still streetable .

    12. 03-15-2012 10:53 PM #37
      The current A3 is 5k cheaper than the A4 base price to base price. The A6 is closer by a marginal amount to the A4 (base car to base car) than the A3->A4. Thus, this would not be anything new in the Audi product line or the product lines of other auto makers.

      At the end of the day, I don't think Audi is going to change their minds on this point. We are getting the sedan and there may be an outside chance at the cabrio. VW & Audi are very slow, deliberate organizations that are risk adverse. Bold just doesn't seem to be in their corporate DNA. They have spoken and the consumers will dictate if they were right. I used to view Audi as sort of a maverick but I think those days are gone.
      Last edited by VR6Now; 03-15-2012 at 11:03 PM.

    13. Member TWinbrook46636's Avatar
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      03-15-2012 11:47 PM #38
      Sounds like Audi offered the A3 Sportback but Audi of America refused...


      “We decided not to take it,” considering wagons simply don’t connect with U.S. buyers, noted Johan de Nysschen, CEO of Audi of America. Instead, the model coming to the States is a new sedan that “doesn’t share a single body panel with this car.”

      According to de Nysschen, it took a lot of effort to convince the corporate parent to develop the sedan, what with most other markets happy to stick with a wagon.
      Last edited by TWinbrook46636; 03-15-2012 at 11:57 PM.

    14. 03-16-2012 01:00 AM #39
      It's surprising all the manufacturers with a small wagon/5-door hatch offering. The Q3 has probably doomed the A3 sportback here, but part of me thinks there's no way Audi won't bring the sportback. Does Audi really need a 6th(?) sedan offering?

      Other "sportback" offerings off the top of my head:

      BMW
      Volvo (ex-v50 and now C series?)
      Saab (does Saab count?)
      Subaru
      Mazda
      Ford
      Lexus
      Toyota
      Kia
      Hyundai

    15. Member tincanman99's Avatar
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      03-16-2012 08:03 AM #40
      Quote Originally Posted by TWinbrook46636 View Post
      Sounds like Audi offered the A3 Sportback but Audi of America refused...


      “We decided not to take it,” considering wagons simply don’t connect with U.S. buyers, noted Johan de Nysschen, CEO of Audi of America. Instead, the model coming to the States is a new sedan that “doesn’t share a single body panel with this car.”

      According to de Nysschen, it took a lot of effort to convince the corporate parent to develop the sedan, what with most other markets happy to stick with a wagon.
      I guess he didnt look around and notice the 5 trillion SUV's on the road here. Duh. Unless the A3 sedan is radically cheaper than the A4, its not going to fly here especially as most A4's are leased.

      Whatever, I will just go buy a GTI or Mini Cooper Countryman. A friend of mine has the Countryman and its a really nice car.

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      03-17-2012 11:25 AM #41
      IMHO except quattro, Audi doesn't have anything unique on any other German car manufacturers if you take the whole hatch / Avant segment out of the game.

      Which means my next car is either a VW GTI or BMW F30 wagon. Too bad neither of these look as good as good as Audi hatch / Avant, but I can't buy it if Audi doesn't offer it..
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    17. Member michA3er's Avatar
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      03-19-2012 04:38 PM #42
      Quote Originally Posted by VR6Now View Post
      Personally, I don't think there is room in the line up for both the Q3 and A3 5dr if they decided to bring more than the 2.5TFSI over. A Q3 TDI or 2.0 TSI would overlap with the A3 in a market where cute-utes are growing in sales and wagons are fading.

      As the A4 moves up in price, it does make some room for another sedan which do sell better in the states.
      Maybe, Audi thinks they need an A3 sedan in order to compete with the Buick Verano and the Q3 to go against the Encore!

      After seeing the Q3 again in Geneva and comparing it against the new A3 it really comes across is being outdated already, especially in the interior. With Audi going all out to give the A3 their absolute latest infotainment systems the Q3 comes across is being already a half-generation behind, which it is since it is not MQB based.

      I've said it before. I really like the new A3, but I will never consider a sedan. I just don't understand Audi's logic in pissing away their current A3 owner base.

    18. Member michA3er's Avatar
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      03-19-2012 04:41 PM #43
      Quote Originally Posted by maverickar15 View Post
      IMHO except quattro, Audi doesn't have anything unique on any other German car manufacturers if you take the whole hatch / Avant segment out of the game.

      Which means my next car is either a VW GTI or BMW F30 wagon. Too bad neither of these look as good as good as Audi hatch / Avant, but I can't buy it if Audi doesn't offer it..
      The next Golf RS could look especially tempting to me, especially if it gets the powertrain from the TT-RS as reported in Auto Bild!

    19. 03-20-2012 11:52 AM #44
      Quote Originally Posted by michA3er View Post
      The next Golf RS could look especially tempting to me, especially if it gets the powertrain from the TT-RS as reported in Auto Bild!
      maybe in germany, here audi sells 200 horse stylized grocery getters in that segment

    20. Member djdub's Avatar
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      03-29-2012 10:27 AM #45
      No updates to this entire forum (A3 MQB) for a while now and this is still the top thread. Hopefully someone at Audi North America is getting a little bit of a clue. I really hope they reconsider bringing the hatches.
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    21. Member Issam Abed's Avatar
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      06-23-2012 02:49 AM #46
      Quote Originally Posted by Travis Grundke View Post
      With a sales volume of only ~100,000 units per year in North America, Audi of America cannot afford to bring every single niche model to these shores.
      Sorry but I find a flaw in this.
      Audi is not "affording" anything. If the end user (the customer) wants a specific Audi why can they not get it? In the caribbean and latin america you can walk into an Audi dealership and pick any vehicle you want with any engine you want.
      I fail to see the logic in Audi of America not wanting to bring X or Y car over here. Maybe my economics are flawed but if I am in the market for an Audi (i.e. I have the $$) why would Audi try and tell me what I "should" buy vs what I "want" to buy?

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      06-23-2012 04:04 AM #47
      Quote Originally Posted by Issam Abed View Post
      Sorry but I find a flaw in this.
      Audi is not "affording" anything. If the end user (the customer) wants a specific Audi why can they not get it? In the caribbean and latin america you can walk into an Audi dealership and pick any vehicle you want with any engine you want.
      I fail to see the logic in Audi of America not wanting to bring X or Y car over here. Maybe my economics are flawed but if I am in the market for an Audi (i.e. I have the $$) why would Audi try and tell me what I "should" buy vs what I "want" to buy?
      The US is not a small country with lax regulations where you can drive around cars with no doors, seatbelts, instrument consoles, mirrors or seats. There is a myriad of emission tests, crash tests, in which they would have to make lots of modifications to the existing car before they can sell it here. Plus the perpetual attempt to make the U$D ever so cheaper by the F3ds (and they say Chin4 is manipulating their currency. The U$ is doing the same thing, but does not have to hold one penny in reserve currency) makes it much less profitable to export to the U$, especially for low margin models. You think with the 3uro on the verge of collapse, it would have devaluated...but apparently not..There is no Euro central bank manipulating the currency.

    23. Member Travis Grundke's Avatar
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      06-23-2012 09:21 AM #48
      Quote Originally Posted by Issam Abed View Post
      Sorry but I find a flaw in this.
      Audi is not "affording" anything. If the end user (the customer) wants a specific Audi why can they not get it? In the caribbean and latin america you can walk into an Audi dealership and pick any vehicle you want with any engine you want.
      I fail to see the logic in Audi of America not wanting to bring X or Y car over here. Maybe my economics are flawed but if I am in the market for an Audi (i.e. I have the $$) why would Audi try and tell me what I "should" buy vs what I "want" to buy?
      Issam -

      The issue is the cost to federalize the cars for one; it's also the ability to provide sales, marketing, advertising, dealership and warranty support for another. The more product in your portfolio the higher the cost to support that product. If you're only selling a few dozen or hundred or even a few thousand per year it may not be worth it unless the margins are sufficiently large enough.

      Before you even cross that hurdle there is the problem of federalization and the costs associated with complying with US regulations for everything from specific turn signals to bumper performance, EPA compliance, crash test simulations, etc. It's very costly.

    24. Member Issam Abed's Avatar
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      06-23-2012 11:54 AM #49
      Quote Originally Posted by Travis Grundke View Post
      Issam -

      The issue is the cost to federalize the cars for one; it's also the ability to provide sales, marketing, advertising, dealership and warranty support for another. The more product in your portfolio the higher the cost to support that product. If you're only selling a few dozen or hundred or even a few thousand per year it may not be worth it unless the margins are sufficiently large enough.

      Before you even cross that hurdle there is the problem of federalization and the costs associated with complying with US regulations for everything from specific turn signals to bumper performance, EPA compliance, crash test simulations, etc. It's very costly.
      I understand that very well but we are talking A3 3 door vs A3 5 door. Not exactly a huge difference there other than the #'s of doors.

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      06-24-2012 02:18 AM #50
      Quote Originally Posted by Issam Abed View Post
      I understand that very well but we are talking A3 3 door vs A3 5 door. Not exactly a huge difference there other than the #'s of doors.
      Not to the regulators. Different distance between pillars, sill length, all sorts of factors will cause it to have different passenger cell strength for front/side crash or rollover tests. You can't explain that to the regulators, nor can you try to hand them an envelope of cash because there are independent testing out there.

      If you think that is the case, then all VW has to do is test one MQB platformed car and pretty much import every VW transverse engined auto into the US with no further testing or redesign.

      Porsche could have said that their 959 looks similar to their 911 so it should have passed regulation?

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