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    VWVortex


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    Thread: VaGPuncher's "Just another big turbo thread"....

    1. 04-02-2012 08:58 PM #176
      Quote Originally Posted by Arin@APR View Post
      The fueling limitation is the high pressure fuel pump that's driven off of the exhaust camshaft. A walboro is a low pressure pump that produces only a few bar of pressure while the High pressure pump delivers up to 200 bar of fuel pressure.

      Also, if low pressure fueling is ever an issue, a walboro pump will not drop in. The system is returnless and runs off a PWM controller.

      Search for FSI and TSI self study guides. It's pretty crazy stuff! Very different.
      I figured there would be something absurd going on. I like the simplicity of my old volvo. And megasquirt aint that bad either.

      So if fuel pressure isn't an issue, and just guessing that fuel/air is the problem in the dips in the curve, injectors would be the next logical guess.

      But to really tell anything, you would need to show duty cycle with that run to get a better idea of what's actually going on. There's not much you can do with just a dyno graph, you need the datalogs to go with it.
      Quote Originally Posted by TechEd View Post
      Long-story-short: Outie5000 is right on all accounts.

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      04-02-2012 09:17 PM #177
      Quote Originally Posted by Outie5000 View Post
      I figured there would be something absurd going on. I like the simplicity of my old volvo. And megasquirt aint that bad either.

      So if fuel pressure isn't an issue, and just guessing that fuel/air is the problem in the dips in the curve, injectors would be the next logical guess.

      But to really tell anything, you would need to show duty cycle with that run to get a better idea of what's actually going on. There's not much you can do with just a dyno graph, you need the datalogs to go with it.
      The injectors flow enough. A larger fuel pump would allow for even more fuel, but that's not ready yet. They also don't have a "duty cycle". It's measured in injector on time, in millisecond.

      The link I posted has the data logs I need to see to figure out what's going on, or to get an idea at least. It may be something silly like a boost leak. You never know. Gotta see some data! And heck, who knows, maybe he was spinning tires on that dyno. Street logs should let us know if it's running correctly.
      GoAPR.com | Facebook | YouTube | Twitter | Instagram
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    3. 04-02-2012 09:35 PM #178
      My bet is on the intake disfiguring somewhere en route. A friends car would suck in the silicone coupler that connected the cold side piping to the throttle body, but it would only do it at around 5500 and up.

      That's something people don't really think about during a dyno run, to look in the bay and see if anything weird is happening.
      Quote Originally Posted by TechEd View Post
      Long-story-short: Outie5000 is right on all accounts.

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      04-02-2012 10:24 PM #179
      Quote Originally Posted by Outie5000 View Post
      My bet is on the intake disfiguring somewhere en route. A friends car would suck in the silicone coupler that connected the cold side piping to the throttle body, but it would only do it at around 5500 and up.

      That's something people don't really think about during a dyno run, to look in the bay and see if anything weird is happening.
      I see what you're saying, but our silicone hoses are multi ply (6 layers) and wire reinforced. It's tough to squeeze with your hand.
      GoAPR.com | Facebook | YouTube | Twitter | Instagram
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    5. 04-03-2012 12:40 PM #180
      Quote Originally Posted by Arin@APR View Post
      I see what you're saying, but our silicone hoses are multi ply (6 layers) and wire reinforced. It's tough to squeeze with your hand.
      Is there any point where there are multiple connections into the hose for other things?

      *shrugs* who knows what it is. Just seeing it hit up then drop then go back up makes me think that something is happening to a sensor and the computer is making up for it and then it gets back into it. Boost leak, hose compression, big heat change for the charge air, or a stutter on the fuel, something like that would give you that second for the ecu to adjust, then get back into it.
      Quote Originally Posted by TechEd View Post
      Long-story-short: Outie5000 is right on all accounts.

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      04-03-2012 01:09 PM #181
      Quote Originally Posted by Arin@APR View Post
      I see what you're saying, but our silicone hoses are multi ply (6 layers) and wire reinforced. It's tough to squeeze with your hand.
      I will agree. The silicone APR uses is very tough stuff.
      11 mk6 gti APR KO4 12.0@119 GoAPR

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      04-05-2012 08:04 AM #182
      Quote Originally Posted by VaGPuncher View Post
      Not sure in correction. Nasty dip in the graph and it was surging. Trying to open my graphs from the email but it's not working.
      With this info and looking at your dyno curve the ecu not happy with what it see's and limiting power prob closing TB alittle not allowing it to stay open 100 percent. I would look at logs / data in the boost control and MAF reading since you said it was surging and look for signs of reversion. If that looks good and smooth curve I would focus on lack of fueling maybe a weak / faulty fuel pump remember your asking completly stock fuel system to produce TWICE ( 100 % more ) the flow so its got to be spot on and health. Good luck. Bob. G
      Read below about mine and other fsi stage 3 owners bad experience and poor results with APR and there Stage 3 Kits. http://forums.vwvortex.com/showthrea...ge-3-dyno-runs
      Quote Originally Posted by jhines_06gli View Post
      I'd say you have nothing to worry about, but then again.....you are driving a modified VW. You have EVERYTHING to worry about!!!
      -J. Hines

    8. Forum Sponsor Arin@APR's Avatar
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      04-05-2012 12:21 PM #183
      Quote Originally Posted by Outie5000 View Post
      Is there any point where there are multiple connections into the hose for other things?

      *shrugs* who knows what it is. Just seeing it hit up then drop then go back up makes me think that something is happening to a sensor and the computer is making up for it and then it gets back into it. Boost leak, hose compression, big heat change for the charge air, or a stutter on the fuel, something like that would give you that second for the ecu to adjust, then get back into it.
      I'd make sure the N75 isn't on backwards. I've seen that. Got an angry phone call and then a happy one a few hours later.

      All in all, we need to see logs. A round 5 log from our support page should do it.

      Hoses (We have them on display at car shows. Come squeeze one!):

      Intake to MAF:


      MAF to Turbo:


      Turbo to Intercooler piping:
      GoAPR.com | Facebook | YouTube | Twitter | Instagram
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      Address: APR LLC, 4800 US HWY 280 West, Opelika, AL 36801

    9. 04-05-2012 12:36 PM #184
      I'm right down the road, or up the road I guess. Auburn's only an hour or so away straight down 280.

      I'm interested in the logs too. I absolutely hate the feeling of driving around, getting on it, then the ECU readjusting in the powerband, it makes the pit of my stomach feel like "oh god something's wrong". On my volvo I had my overboost protection (fuel cut) set to 20psi and my boost controller set to 17. A cold day came along and I got to feel that overboost kick in... scared the bajezus out of me. 3500 rpm (the thing only revs to 6300) and accelerating, then a sudden fuel cut Needless to say I upped the limit and lowered the boost a hair so it would be driveable in the cold.


      Now if I could get the intercooler to actually cool... one of these days.
      Quote Originally Posted by TechEd View Post
      Long-story-short: Outie5000 is right on all accounts.

    10. Member VaGPuncher's Avatar
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      04-05-2012 08:55 PM #185
      i will get logs as soon as i can..i work long hours and have to drive 45 minutes to an hour just to make it to a road that i can log on...im off next thursday so i will see if i can get to RSW and let them log the car for me...i will keep everyone posted..

    11. 04-05-2012 11:15 PM #186
      Quote Originally Posted by VaGPuncher View Post
      i will get logs as soon as i can..i work long hours and have to drive 45 minutes to an hour just to make it to a road that i can log on...im off next thursday so i will see if i can get to RSW and let them log the car for me...i will keep everyone posted..
      this. **** getting speeding tickets and having to pay for a lawyer cause you need to run logs

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      04-05-2012 11:19 PM #187
      Quote Originally Posted by HalvieCuw View Post
      this. **** getting speeding tickets and having to pay for a lawyer cause you need to run logs
      I'll consider myself lucky than for making it home safely tonight after doing 3 4th gear pulls. Man I love race gas.

      I didn't feel that way last week, hence part of my reasoning for booking the dyno.
      '09 GTI TSI 11.53@121.18
      '12 TT-RS TBD!

    13. 04-06-2012 12:10 AM #188
      Just use highway on ramps for logs of bigger gears. Pull in slowly, go into 4th or 5th, floor it, and wait. If your on ramps are as long as ours are, you should be almost on the highway before you need to slow down.
      Quote Originally Posted by TechEd View Post
      Long-story-short: Outie5000 is right on all accounts.

    14. Member VaGPuncher's Avatar
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      04-06-2012 07:08 AM #189
      Quote Originally Posted by Outie5000 View Post
      Just use highway on ramps for logs of bigger gears. Pull in slowly, go into 4th or 5th, floor it, and wait. If your on ramps are as long as ours are, you should be almost on the highway before you need to slow down.
      no onramps like that around here..

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      04-06-2012 10:37 AM #190
      Quote Originally Posted by VaGPuncher View Post
      no onramps like that around here..
      I use to use a huge drug company parking lot when I lived in Philly.

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    16. 04-06-2012 11:12 AM #191
      Quote Originally Posted by Arin@APR View Post
      I use to use a huge drug company parking lot when I lived in Philly.

      Lucky. That would be about perfect. Sucks around here. Either take your chances on the highway with tons of cops, or drive out to bumble **** and go 115 on terrible roads.

    17. 04-06-2012 01:33 PM #192
      make sure you log knock voltage since you had the bottom end built. my friends car had low power because of timing pull related to incorrect piston wall clearance. ECU thought the piston slap was knock and reduced power by over 50hp.

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      04-06-2012 01:40 PM #193
      Quote Originally Posted by 02VWGTIVR6 View Post
      make sure you log knock voltage since you had the bottom end built. my friends car had low power because of timing pull related to incorrect piston wall clearance. ECU thought the piston slap was knock and reduced power by over 50hp.
      Very interesting. Would he see pull at low rpm and gears? Like shifting from first to 2nd driving thru a neighborhood?
      Edit: what measuring block and good/bad voltage specs?
      '09 GTI TSI 11.53@121.18
      '12 TT-RS TBD!

    19. Forum Sponsor Arin@APR's Avatar
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      04-06-2012 01:50 PM #194
      Quote Originally Posted by steelcurtain View Post
      Very interesting. Would he see pull at low rpm and gears? Like shifting from first to 2nd driving thru a neighborhood?
      Edit: what measuring block and good/bad voltage specs?
      We were just discussing this... Call at 2 CST?
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    20. 04-06-2012 06:23 PM #195
      I don't think he ended up doing the pistons

    21. Member VaGPuncher's Avatar
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      04-06-2012 06:24 PM #196
      Quote Originally Posted by HalvieCuw View Post
      I don't think he ended up doing the pistons
      Nope. No pistons.

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      04-07-2012 12:03 AM #197
      I noticed your picture and caption about the bent / chipped fins on your stock turbo. Was it sounding strange or performing differently?

    23. 04-07-2012 12:27 AM #198
      How heavy is the spring in the wastegate actuator (i.e. how many pounds is it good for) and how much boost are you running?
      Quote Originally Posted by TechEd View Post
      Long-story-short: Outie5000 is right on all accounts.

    24. Member VaGPuncher's Avatar
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      04-07-2012 10:15 AM #199
      Quote Originally Posted by tsibri View Post
      I noticed your picture and caption about the bent / chipped fins on your stock turbo. Was it sounding strange or performing differently?
      to be honest, nothing that i was able to tell..just noticed it after i pulled it off...there were a few times where the car would just puff smoke at idle though but don't think it was related to the bent fins..

      Quote Originally Posted by Outie5000 View Post
      How heavy is the spring in the wastegate actuator (i.e. how many pounds is it good for) and how much boost are you running?
      i'm not sure about the spring..when the car peaks boost on my gauge hits 22-23 then backs off to about 20-21 and kinda moves back and forth between that..on the dyno i wasn't in the car so i don't know how much boost was lost when it dipped like that...

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      04-09-2012 10:56 AM #200
      Quote Originally Posted by VaGPuncher View Post
      i'm not sure about the spring..when the car peaks boost on my gauge hits 22-23 then backs off to about 20-21 and kinda moves back and forth between that..on the dyno i wasn't in the car so i don't know how much boost was lost when it dipped like that...
      Did you do multiple dyno runs?

      Was the car cold on the dyno?

      If the car was cold, 1, the Oxygen sensors will not be active till nearly the end of the run and 2, the ECU will pull back power (or try) till the engine is up to temp.

      At any rate, logs will help diagnose this issue... also, given the shape of the graph, I would assume you feel this on the road if it's happening all the time? Do you?
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