4 Speed or 5 Speed Mk1?

[GoNuts123]

Hi, I'm new to the mk1 scirocco world and I was curious on what the advantages on having a 4 or a 5 speed mk1 scirocco would be? I'm looking at getting one and wanted to know if there was any major difference between the two.

Thanks,
Lani

[twardnw]

5 speed, more gears, more time in power. Depending on the trans it can also help to lower cruising RPMs too.

[GoNuts123]

5 speed, more gears, more time in power. Depending on the trans it can also help to lower cruising RPMs too.

Okay, that makes sense. Thanks!:thumb up:

I also have a mk2 8v engine 1.8l sitting around, if I find a 4 speed mk1 would it make enough difference in power to want to swap it in or would it basically be a wash? Just for public road driving.

[scotttu]

I had a 4 speed in my MK1 wiht a 1.6

70mp=4400 rpm (or more)

5 speed:
70mph - 3500rpm (if that).

better gas mileage, less wear and tear.

If you buy a beater car to drive around town a 4 speed might be better but if you want better all around performance get a 5 speed, just as cheap.

You have to change a couple of pieces on the linkage, I haven't yet done that so 5th gear is REALLY tight getting into...

[sciroccohal]

While having the CORRECT 5 speed for a MK1 is a big improvement, do not kick the four speed outta bed.

The four speeds are incredibly robust and trouble free. They are factory matched with the correct final drive. They are incredibly fun to drive.

Most 4 speeds have a 1:1 fourth gear.
The correct (I'll explain in a second) 5 speeds have TWO gears of overdrive. 4th and 5th.

The 'close ratio boxes' have BARELY any over-drive in 5th.

You will hardly notice the difference comparing them to the 4 speed.
4k being one of my LEAST favorite. Your Engine is buzzing along at 4000-4500 at speeds I drive. It's tiring and gets crappy for a Scirocco, gas mileage.

For sure there are Sciroccoistis out there who rock the 4k and equivalents. More 'power' to them.
They are far more un-reliable, having frequent yoke, sychro, tranny case, reverse light switch and bearing problems than the IDEAL trannys (IMHO) the FO and FF (.75 and.76 O/D in 5th)
The FN also known as the 'ECO' box has a .71 overdrive in 5th

In any event you will have to change the linkages and up-grade the clutch flywheel and pressure plate to the larger size.

My advice; Run the four speed for a YEAR....then think about swapping.

[Michael Bee]

My advice; Run the four speed for a YEAR....then think about swapping.

....or two years.... or five....

Then......... drive 12 hours 1 way to Cincy from NY at 85-90 mph (5500-6000 rpms) and a stock JH on the Penna Turnpike while trying to keep up with a crazy Canadian who shoe-horned a carbed 16v into his restored Mk1 silver blur with another crazy canadian in a black Mk2 8v blur with a flexed muscle of a rebuild. All of this happening with a Cannibal Corpse/Sepultura/Black Flag/High on Fire soundtrack provided by your iPod/earbud setup cranked to the max because your 2.5" SS exhaust with Borla is yelping in the distance (oooooh another tunnel!!! UUUUUuuuurrrRRRR yaaaay) and you keep eyeballing the oil temp in the console guage as it keeps. getting. hotter..... hotter!!! HOTTER!!!!

*sigh*.... the life of a 4speed.

what were we talking about?

[Mtl-Marc]

....or two years.... or five....

Then......... drive 12 hours 1 way to Cincy from NY at 85-90 mph (5500-6000 rpms) and a stock JH on the Penna Turnpike while trying to keep up with a crazy Canadian who shoe-horned a carbed 16v into his restored Mk1 silver blur with another crazy canadian in a black Mk2 8v blur with a flexed muscle of a rebuild. All of this happening with a Cannibal Corpse/Sepultura/Black Flag/High on Fire soundtrack provided by your iPod/earbud setup cranked to the max because your 2.5" SS exhaust with Borla is yelping in the distance (oooooh another tunnel!!! UUUUUuuuurrrRRRR yaaaay) and you keep eyeballing the oil temp in the console guage as it keeps. getting. hotter..... hotter!!! HOTTER!!!!

*sigh*.... the life of a 4speed.

what were we talking about?

[sciroccohal]

....or two years.... or five....

Then......... drive 12 hours 1 way to Cincy from NY at 85-90 mph (5500-6000 rpms) and a stock JH on the Penna Turnpike while trying to keep up with a crazy Canadian who shoe-horned a carbed 16v into his restored Mk1 silver blur with another crazy canadian in a black Mk2 8v blur with a flexed muscle of a rebuild. All of this happening with a Cannibal Corpse/Sepultura/Black Flag/High on Fire soundtrack provided by your iPod/earbud setup cranked to the max because your 2.5" SS exhaust with Borla is yelping in the distance (oooooh another tunnel!!! UUUUUuuuurrrRRRR yaaaay) and you keep eyeballing the oil temp in the console guage as it keeps. getting. hotter..... hotter!!! HOTTER!!!!

*sigh*.... the life of a 4speed.

what were we talking about?

That was Jack KEROUAK poetic boyo! (on the road)

[MickR]

I just go 55mph with my 4 speed. Wait - am I doing it wrong?

[sciroccohal]

Interestingly Mick. My first registerable ve-hicle was an automatic Mobylette! circa 1970

[Eistreiber]

...I also have a mk2 8v engine 1.8l sitting around, if I find a 4 speed mk1 would it make enough difference in power to want to swap it in or would it basically be a wash? Just for public road driving.

Generally the later 8v engines make more power than the earlier ones, that said probably not worth the bother to swap for daily driving.

I like really like the 5sp (done a lot of miles with a FF code transaxle, got about 35- 37 mpg at 80- 85 mph. Good numbers), and so IF you buy a Scirocco with a 4sp and IF you decide to upgrade to a 5sp; I'd suggest you borrow or rent an engine hoist, pull engine and transaxle as a unit, and replace as a unit (don't forget to do engine mounts while you're there; it'll be convenient).

[GoNuts123]

....or two years.... or five....

Then......... drive 12 hours 1 way to Cincy from NY at 85-90 mph (5500-6000 rpms) and a stock JH on the Penna Turnpike while trying to keep up with a crazy Canadian who shoe-horned a carbed 16v into his restored Mk1 silver blur with another crazy canadian in a black Mk2 8v blur with a flexed muscle of a rebuild. All of this happening with a Cannibal Corpse/Sepultura/Black Flag/High on Fire soundtrack provided by your iPod/earbud setup cranked to the max because your 2.5" SS exhaust with Borla is yelping in the distance (oooooh another tunnel!!! UUUUUuuuurrrRRRR yaaaay) and you keep eyeballing the oil temp in the console guage as it keeps. getting. hotter..... hotter!!! HOTTER!!!!

*sigh*.... the life of a 4speed.

what were we talking about?

[TBerk]

I just go 55mph with my 4 speed. Wait - am I doing it wrong?

...Around corners? That's the Scirocco Way.


TBerk
PS- 4 speeds also have a different trans side motor mount bracket...

[Bubble Block]

....or two years.... or five....

Then......... drive 12 hours 1 way to Cincy from NY at 85-90 mph (5500-6000 rpms) and a stock JH on the Penna Turnpike while trying to keep up with a crazy Canadian who shoe-horned a carbed 16v into his restored Mk1 silver blur with another crazy canadian in a black Mk2 8v blur with a flexed muscle of a rebuild. All of this happening with a Cannibal Corpse/Sepultura/Black Flag/High on Fire soundtrack provided by your iPod/earbud setup cranked to the max because your 2.5" SS exhaust with Borla is yelping in the distance (oooooh another tunnel!!! UUUUUuuuurrrRRRR yaaaay) and you keep eyeballing the oil temp in the console guage as it keeps. getting. hotter..... hotter!!! HOTTER!!!!

*sigh*.... the life of a 4speed.

what were we talking about?

Ive got a 1.6 8v with a 4 spd.. I cant wait to share this feeling!!!

[Iroczgirl]

I'm switching from a 'GC' code 4 speed to a 'FF' code 5 speed in my Rabbit.

I'll report back with the findings.
Right now, the 'GC' is great for in-town driving but mated to a 1.5 diesel, I don't even dare to go over 55mph on the freeway. That's with stock size tires too.

[Doug T]

I will gladly take any 4 speed that you may have off your hands. The splines are not that durable and not repairable. That said the gearing is more favorable for track use in some classes. Some 4 speed cases are made of magnesium and are much lighter.

[fredybender]

....or two years.... or five....

Then......... drive 12 hours 1 way to Cincy from NY at 85-90 mph (5500-6000 rpms) and a stock JH on the Penna Turnpike while trying to keep up with a crazy Canadian who shoe-horned a carbed 16v into his restored Mk1 silver blur with another crazy canadian in a black Mk2 8v blur with a flexed muscle of a rebuild. All of this happening with a Cannibal Corpse/Sepultura/Black Flag/High on Fire soundtrack provided by your iPod/earbud setup cranked to the max because your 2.5" SS exhaust with Borla is yelping in the distance (oooooh another tunnel!!! UUUUUuuuurrrRRRR yaaaay) and you keep eyeballing the oil temp in the console guage as it keeps. getting. hotter..... hotter!!! HOTTER!!!!

*sigh*.... the life of a 4speed.

what were we talking about?

[Eistreiber]

@ Doug T; tried to PM but your storage is full. I have two, maybe three 4spd's; can probably spare one.

[LAVDUBDUDE]

....or two years.... or five....

Then......... drive 12 hours 1 way to Cincy from NY at 85-90 mph (5500-6000 rpms) and a stock JH on the Penna Turnpike while trying to keep up with a crazy Canadian who shoe-horned a carbed 16v into his restored Mk1 silver blur with another crazy canadian in a black Mk2 8v blur with a flexed muscle of a rebuild. All of this happening with a Cannibal Corpse/Sepultura/Black Flag/High on Fire soundtrack provided by your iPod/earbud setup cranked to the max because your 2.5" SS exhaust with Borla is yelping in the distance (oooooh another tunnel!!! UUUUUuuuurrrRRRR yaaaay) and you keep eyeballing the oil temp in the console guage as it keeps. getting. hotter..... hotter!!! HOTTER!!!!

*sigh*.... the life of a 4speed.

what were we talking about?

This is epic I totally feel the same im hoping to convert soon.

[TBerk]

I just go 55mph with my 4 speed. Wait - am I doing it wrong?

Yes, when you are doing so in the local School Zone...

(oops, replied twice [by accident! damnit] w/ similar replies to the same thread... )

[hardrocco]

A lot of people on here like the FF code 5 speed tranny.
Most of the 4 speed's I've seen is the GC code which has exactly the same gears and final drive as the FF but is missing the 5th gear.

The 4 speeds are long ratio, you stay in those gears longer, which means you won't be gearing up and down as much. Depends on how you like to drive.

The 4 speed box is smaller and lighter than the 5 speed for obvious reasons. In the old days, some of the hot rodders like the 4 speeds for drag racing because they were lighter.

As some of the others mentioned above, having the 5th gear gives you better gas mileage on the freeway (depends on your speed, but most drive a little above the speed limit) and lowers the rpm saving your engine.

I had a 4k on my other Scirocco, it's a close ratio and does keep the revs up high in 5th, but it's fun to drive around and on the freeway I can put the pedal down and have lots of oomph to pass at 65 mph and above. Off the line a 4k will give you good zip! I never had any problems with my 4k, the longevity of the trannies really depended on who drove them before you.

Just remember it's a compromise, if you want more gas mileage, the rev range your car end up at means you have to gear down to pass.

Check this webpage out, it has a calculator to figure out your final speed/rpm:
http://www.scirocco.org/gears/