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    Thread: A very technical build - PART II

    1. Member MechEngg's Avatar
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      02-12-2012 08:33 PM #1



      I'm back! Here is my second technical build, aptly named "A very technical build - PART II"
      I kept the naming the same because i am keeping almost the same basic concept of a trunk layout, just adding a few tweaks here and there based on stuff i liked and didn't like from the first setup; and yes there were a few things that i didn't like.....

      First build for the new guys reading: http://forums.vwvortex.com/showthrea...echnical-build

      Problems with the first build:
      - Hard to get at relays
      - Wasn't very "showy"
      - didn't actually get around to the subwoofer & amp install so it will be documented here
      - Tight for wiring
      - Lines under car need to be protected a bit more for my liking in these Canadian winters
      What I wanted to add/change:
      - Change location of water trap (1)
      - Add water trap before the buffer tank (3)
      - Add another OB2 compressor (2)
      - Move the compressors closer to the tank (4)
      - Add more storage room for air tools, spare parts and on the road fix it solutions for ease of road trips (6)
      - Make it so that i can drain the water traps and tank without having to air out at all




      So to resolve all of the above issues/wants i devised a plan (as usual )
      Framing system
      - Change frame mounting for compressors
      - Lower 3 gallon buffer tank and compressors enough so that i could fit a 3” tall floor compartment for storage right above the tank and compressors
      - Move the compressors forward on the frame a bit
      - Install shut off valve between tanks where the original water trap was located (1)
      5 Gallon airtank box
      - Add water trap between tank and manifold (7)
      - Make false floor to hide all wiring and plumbing for showing off the tank from back seats (keep in mind that there is a false wall hiding the 5 gallon tank from the trunk)
      - Add inflation valve to tank just incase something happens
      Electrical Connection Box
      - Add extensions for compressor relays, cutout through wall so they are accessible from the trunk electrical box instead of below the false floor behind the air tank
      - Add amplifier for sub

      Okay so here is where the fun begins......


      Installed removable connection points (will be moved to the bottom of the frame) so that they can be easily replaced. Needed for the increased weight of all the compressors. They are probably 100lbs for all 3 of them with the frame, good thing i have e-level!


      Drain valve on the bottom of the tank with ball valve – easy to drain and will be routed directly out of the trunk through the bottom


      Compressors and tank closer together and top at around the same height


      Frame redesigned, built, but not fitted in the car yet



      Keep looking for updates!

    2. Member Slamtastic's Avatar
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      02-12-2012 09:49 PM #2


      Can't wait to see it done!

    3. Banned jettaaddictionII's Avatar
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      02-13-2012 12:13 AM #3
      wow! you are running 3 ob2s :bow:

    4. Member ericshell's Avatar
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      02-13-2012 12:16 AM #4
      can't wait to see the outcome this time! I know Ben from RI had some trouble battery/alternator wise when he ran 3 vlairs, is the power used by these more efficient or do you have plans to support the power consumption. I never thought it would be a problem, but maybe its just a myth / weird coincidence.

    5. Member MechEngg's Avatar
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      02-13-2012 12:21 AM #5
      Quote Originally Posted by ericshell View Post
      can't wait to see the outcome this time! I know Ben from RI had some trouble battery/alternator wise when he ran 3 vlairs, is the power used by these more efficient or do you have plans to support the power consumption. I never thought it would be a problem, but maybe its just a myth / weird coincidence.
      200A alternator from EA
      It is a DEFINITE if you are going to be running more than 1 of them since the amp draw on each is 35A


    6. Member ericshell's Avatar
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      02-13-2012 12:26 AM #6
      Quote Originally Posted by MechEngg View Post
      200A alternator from EA
      It is a DEFINITE if you are going to be running more than 1 of them since the amp draw on each is 35A
      thats great info to know . Does that alternator swap right in as well?

    7. Member MechEngg's Avatar
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      02-13-2012 12:27 AM #7
      Quote Originally Posted by ericshell View Post
      thats great info to know . Does that alternator swap right in as well?
      Yeah it is a direct bolt on replacement, he makes them custom for what you want. This one i have is 200A @1200rpm and 150A at idle (750rpm)

    8. Member ericshell's Avatar
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      02-13-2012 12:31 AM #8
      I just posted this in dean's thread as well but you should definitely take a video for the refill cycle from low and from empty. I'm curious to see how insanely fast it will be haha.

    9. Member Twilliams83's Avatar
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      02-13-2012 12:33 AM #9
      yes i your builds. Could you share how your wiring the three comps? everywhere i looked i have only seen dual diagrams, just curious.

      ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
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    10. Member MechEngg's Avatar
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      02-13-2012 12:48 AM #10
      Quote Originally Posted by Twilliams83 View Post
      yes i your builds. Could you share how your wiring the three comps? everywhere i looked i have only seen dual diagrams, just curious.

      i will do up complete plumbing and wiring diagrams including my self latching automatic resetting relays and turn off switches for the compressors

    11. Member Niagara_V_Dub's Avatar
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      02-13-2012 03:04 AM #11
      how much did that alt run you if you don't mind me asking.
      Insert witty quote

    12. Member baggedug's Avatar
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      02-13-2012 03:39 AM #12
      love that this is back

    13. Member joebags's Avatar
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      02-13-2012 08:48 AM #13
      can't wait to see more
      I'll enjoy my car while you try to be internet famous

    14. Member BlackRadon's Avatar
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      02-13-2012 04:31 PM #14
      sweet! I really wanna redo my trunk. Looks ****ing horrid! Can't wait to see yours

    15. 02-13-2012 04:45 PM #15
      Hey, Mech, I'd also like to know where you got that alt from (Excessive Amperage?), since I want to go bigger than stock at some point.

      Glad to see you're back in the trenches, BTW.

      EDIT, nevermid, I just saw the Excessive AMperage sticker on the pic of the alt you took. Duh.
      Last edited by John Reid; 02-13-2012 at 04:48 PM.

    16. Member
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      02-13-2012 05:37 PM #16
      Super nice build! Really like the noise isolation setup.

    17. Member MechEngg's Avatar
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      02-13-2012 07:51 PM #17
      Quote Originally Posted by Niagara_V_Dub View Post
      how much did that alt run you if you don't mind me asking.
      Give EA a call and they will give you a quote

      Quote Originally Posted by baggedug View Post
      love that this is back
      Me tooooooooooooooooooooooo

      Quote Originally Posted by joebags View Post
      can't wait to see more


      Quote Originally Posted by BlackRadon View Post
      sweet! I really wanna redo my trunk. Looks ****ing horrid! Can't wait to see yours
      Let me know and i might be able to help you out if you are ever in Calgary

      Quote Originally Posted by John Reid View Post
      Hey, Mech, I'd also like to know where you got that alt from (Excessive Amperage?), since I want to go bigger than stock at some point.

      Glad to see you're back in the trenches, BTW.

      EDIT, nevermid, I just saw the Excessive AMperage sticker on the pic of the alt you took. Duh.


      Quote Originally Posted by aVWGTIguy View Post
      Super nice build! Really like the noise isolation setup.

    18. Member MechEngg's Avatar
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      02-13-2012 08:17 PM #18
      Quote Originally Posted by Twilliams83 View Post
      yes i your builds. Could you share how your wiring the three comps? everywhere i looked i have only seen dual diagrams, just curious.

      As promised a full plumbing and wiring schematic, any questions just ask.

      WIRING

      Okay i have decided to do some funky unnecessary wiring here to gain what i feel is a freakin fantastic functionality. Functionality goes as such:
      - Turn on car
      - Car will raise automatically due to e-level
      - Press kill switch to shut off each compressor individually (or maybe all 3, haven't decided yet)
      - Compressor will stay off until button is pressed or car is turned off
      - If button is in the ON position (working/not lit up) when the car is turned off the switch remains in the same position
      - If the button is in the OFF position (not working/yellow light showing) when the car is turned off it automatically resets itself so that when you start the car the compressors will turn on again.

      This auto-resetting is fantastic for if you have just a plain toggle switch and forget to switch it back on and all of a sudden you have zero pressure in your tank. The buttons are OEM Euro switches just like the following "funk" switches found on graeme86's webpage http://www.users.on.net/~graeme86/funk/funk.html
      They have a brilliant mounting spot that is out of the way and will look extremely OEM.

      The wiring diagram is entirely complete except for the wiring of the actual button which is just three lines on my schematic. Here is the internal schematic, just connect 4 and 6 to grounds, 3 to your dimmer switch, 1 and 2 to splice between your line that you want to activate, and 5 from the SPDT relay NO port (87a). This SPDT relay is used purely to get the yellow light to activate when the compressors are in the OFF position and not working, which is the way i want it



    19. Member tonyb2580's Avatar
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      02-14-2012 09:20 AM #19
      you are one serious dude im in

    20. 02-14-2012 09:28 AM #20
      Ahh, it's so nice to see someone doing an install that actually PLANS AHEAD as opposed to winging it, like many of the build threads on the Vortex seem to imply (I could be wrong, just an observation via the internet).

      Yeah, making diagrams/CAD drawings can take longer, but it also causes less headaches or rebuilds.

      Well done, sir.

    21. Member arethirdytwo's Avatar
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      02-14-2012 09:37 AM #21
      Looking good! When can we expect SS hardlines?

    22. Member martin13's Avatar
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      02-14-2012 10:44 PM #22
      Quote Originally Posted by arethirdytwo View Post
      Looking good! When can we expect SS hardlines?
      when he buys the stainless, i will lend him my bender

    23. Member MechEngg's Avatar
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      02-15-2012 12:14 AM #23
      Quote Originally Posted by tonyb2580 View Post
      you are one serious dude im in
      Glad i impressed you

      Quote Originally Posted by John Reid View Post
      Ahh, it's so nice to see someone doing an install that actually PLANS AHEAD as opposed to winging it, like many of the build threads on the Vortex seem to imply (I could be wrong, just an observation via the internet).

      Yeah, making diagrams/CAD drawings can take longer, but it also causes less headaches or rebuilds.

      Well done, sir.
      I totally agree, planning is one of my favorite parts, the other favorite part is building it

      Quote Originally Posted by arethirdytwo View Post
      Looking good! When can we expect SS hardlines?
      Honestly i don't think i will ever do hardlines on this setup, just with the way it is designed flexible lines are much better because of the vibrations. The vibration frame will be moving slightly so hardlines to my completely stationary tank might not be the best idea, but you never know in the future

      Quote Originally Posted by martin13 View Post
      when he buys the stainless, i will lend him my bender
      No deal, you will be enlisted to do the actual bending

    24. Member President Lincoln's Avatar
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      02-15-2012 10:49 AM #24
      Well this is great! IN

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    25. Member arethirdytwo's Avatar
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      02-15-2012 12:20 PM #25
      I gotta ask about the three comps though... I know why... but why?

    26. Member MechEngg's Avatar
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      02-15-2012 12:55 PM #26
      Quote Originally Posted by arethirdytwo View Post
      I gotta ask about the three comps though... I know why... but why?
      Well here were the reasons behind getting another:
      - Never heard of anybody with a VW having 3 OB2's so i wanted to be unique
      - I had the extra room in my trunk if i redesigned my frame
      - I had some extra amperage to play with seeing as i had an upgraded alternator already (150A at idle, so say 130 to play with so we don't run full tilt, ~20A for car functions at any one given time, that leaves 110A for compressors. 35A * 3 = 105A so it is just enough). I would need to upgrade my alternator even further to a 250A/190A idle to accomodate another compressor so it just isn't worth it.
      - This way my fill time is virtually non-existent
      - With this proven silencing method the compressors are silent while running so i can run as many as i want without negative side effects
      - The faster the fill time the less it will start to kill my battery actually, this way my alternator can keep up to the filling and it won't start deep cycling my OEM battery, which it would if i was running it for 5 minutes or so
      - Plus it fills up the trunk space nicely

    27. Member arethirdytwo's Avatar
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      02-15-2012 01:17 PM #27
      LOL. I mean I would take three but I have a show car

      Any in car audio? I'd love to hear how quiet these are, I think I may run isolators and move my comps into the interior.

    28. Member MechEngg's Avatar
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      02-15-2012 01:46 PM #28
      Quote Originally Posted by arethirdytwo View Post
      LOL. I mean I would take three but I have a show car

      Any in car audio? I'd love to hear how quiet these are, I think I may run isolators and move my comps into the interior.
      You don't want to have three beautiful compressors showing in a show car??

      I am just putting a simple head unit in to wire up to the monsoon speakers and amp and put in a small 10" directed audio 300W rms sub and amp in a nice sealed box for a bit of crisp bass. Will run off the other fuse I have in the trunk distribution block. The amp fits in the electrical box section of the build

    29. Member Twilliams83's Avatar
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      02-15-2012 07:56 PM #29
      Quote Originally Posted by MechEngg View Post
      You don't want to have three beautiful compressors showing in a show car??

      I am just putting a simple head unit in to wire up to the monsoon speakers and amp and put in a small 10" directed audio 300W rms sub and amp in a nice sealed box for a bit of crisp bass. Will run off the other fuse I have in the trunk distribution block. The amp fits in the electrical box section of the build
      I think he was talking about audio clips of the comps running from inside the cabin
      ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
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    30. Member arethirdytwo's Avatar
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      02-15-2012 08:12 PM #30
      Bingo. All the work on my car and ICE is all factory. Ended up growing out of that phase. I'd just love to hear in-car noise level.

    31. Moderator kilimats's Avatar
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      02-15-2012 08:50 PM #31
      LOVE LOVE the FUNK button idea, i need this in my life, I hate when the compressor kicks in while waiting for the glow to warm up and then turn off and on when firing the engine

      Let me know how it goes and I'll most likely do the same

      EDIT: that guy is asking for $45 shipped for the FUNK button
      Last edited by kilimats; 02-15-2012 at 10:49 PM.
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    32. Member Niagara_V_Dub's Avatar
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      02-15-2012 10:34 PM #32
      I was going to run the mini funk button with a relay. I am still trying to decide on the fine details of it though. I am gonna have to step my game up though after seeing how you throw down.
      Insert witty quote

    33. Member MechEngg's Avatar
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      02-16-2012 12:25 AM #33
      Quote Originally Posted by Twilliams83 View Post
      I think he was talking about audio clips of the comps running from inside the cabin
      Ah gotcha. I must have totally read it wrong.

      Quote Originally Posted by arethirdytwo View Post
      Bingo. All the work on my car and ICE is all factory. Ended up growing out of that phase. I'd just love to hear in-car noise level.
      I don't think that the compressors would be great for inside the cabin, they would be noisy for that. But with the vibration dampening and double layers of airborne sound absorber it is quiet in the cabin with the comps mounted in the spare wheel well.

      Quote Originally Posted by kilimats View Post
      LOVE LOVE the FUNK button idea, i need this in my life, I hate when the compressor kicks in while waiting for the glow to warm up and then turn off and on when firing the engine

      Let me know how it goes and I'll most likely do the same

      EDIT: that guy is asking for $45 shipped for the FUNK button
      Yeah thats what i got from him too.....BUT screw it i am going to do it anyways
      You can actually use any momentary push button with the wiring diagram that i gave you and just wire in an LED for an on or off indicator

      Quote Originally Posted by Niagara_V_Dub View Post
      I was going to run the mini funk button with a relay. I am still trying to decide on the fine details of it though. I am gonna have to step my game up though after seeing how you throw down.
      It's not a competition, it's always nice to have something unique though
      Even if you do the same thing not very many people have done it at all so it will still be really unique especially at local shows

    34. Member BlackRadon's Avatar
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      02-16-2012 01:20 AM #34
      I must admit when it comes to wiring/electronic' i just almost freeze up and don't even know where to start. Its kinda hard to explain the feeling but its so damn stupid! That funk button idea is great! Can't wait for some more progress

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      02-16-2012 02:04 PM #35
      Looking good
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