was I ripped off? 09 Routan - No Oil = Blown UP engine

[ReDGTI2EnVy]

Hey Guys - not even a year ago, I purchased a Routan from Linden VW, in Linden, NJ and this is my timeline:

6/20/2011 - Purchased "CERTIFIED" Routan
7/13/2011 - Returned to dealer: replaced front brake pads and rotors /
10/5/2011 - replaced rotors and pads for backbrakes / driver window problems / door drains were clogged / replaced headlight due to condensation


As you can see here, I feel these people never actually inspected and fixed this vehicle before they sold it. In December I dropped it off for the 36,000 miles check. I put 4,000 miles and yesterday as it was being driven suddenly the oil light starts flashing very crazy, the engine starts knocking. The Van was taken to a nearby VW and they told me THERE WAS NO OIL AT ALL in the engine .. Is this possible????? Shouldn't there be at least some oil??? I had the vehicle towed to where I purchased it and they are saying I drove the vehicle with no oil and is my liability. Even though it is clear I've been having problems with the van ever since I purchased it.

I honestly think they sold me a lemon to begin with, but I was too nice to catch it. Do I stand a chance on suing these people? They convinced VWOA that it was my fault and not theris, therefore, the liability lies on me for the repairs.

This is my third VW and I'm so dissappointed at this dealer, not VW but this dealer. Please help guys.

[58kafer]

What motor? 3.8 or 4.0?

Unfortunately, the problems you listed that you had with the van have noting to do with oil consumption, so I don't think throwing that around at the dealer will get you too far. Ultimately you are responsible for checking the oil, BUT, when you had it in for the 36K oil change, don't you think they should have told you that the van was low on oil? I mean, even though I would be just about ready to do an oil change, I always check the level just before draining it. Force of habit for me, but for a tech they probably just pop it in the air, pull the plug, go get a coffee while it's draining and never actually see how much came out. Perhaps you could look into the power train warranty for the 09's, maybe it is 50K, but it's gonna be hard to make that stick since there was no oil in it. Only plus side is, if you mechanically inclined, the Dodge and Chryslers are like a-holes, everyone has got one so there should be plenty of them in the boneyards to get a motor from. Sorry man, keep us posted.

[ReDGTI2EnVy]

It's a Routan S - base model, so I'm assuming 3.8 L ... Well, the CPO warranty does expire at 60.k - I'm staying optimistic because I feel it may have something to do with their lack of service last time I took it in. It's my third VW Vehicle, I never had a problem with my cars before and they have records of all the times i took my vehicles for maintenance. I believe they will be considerate. I'll keep you guys posted.

I think my argument will be this one: How do I know the technician who served it last put the right amount of oil in the car? After all, I did have to take it back 2 or 3 times for a problem they happen to forgot to check when I first purchased the vehicle. Just like they never checked my brakes before selling the vehicle and were negligent to other things, so I will base my argument off that since this is an actual fact and not just something I'm making up.

[Zambee500]

Good luck. I think they're going to see all of that as irrelevant and focus on when you last checked your oil level. Not sure what the manual says, but I suspect it says monthly or at every fill-up. The vast majority of us don't do that, of course, but that's what VW is going to hang their hats on. You drove the vehicle for 4k miles without checking the oil. I agree with 58 that you could try the angle that it never leaked or used oil after you first bought it, and nobody just 6 or 8 weeks ago mentioned it was low at all when you brought it in for the 36k mile service, and try to get them on that. But good luck.

Does it still run? Any obvious signs of damage? Similar thing happened with my 2000 Nissan, and I drove it for nearly a year before it started showing any signs of engine damage - it eventually started making intermittent tapping sounds (rod?) and wouldn't always maintain oil pressure. If you're in similar situation, you could try trading it or selling it at CarMax and get out of it while you still can and mitigate your losses.

[ReDGTI2EnVy]

spoke to VWOA today.. the engine is gone. they were trying to put the liability on me. However, this is my third VW, I have perfect maintenance record and never tried to rip them off. I beleive I might have to pay like $500 for a deductable but they will work a deal out for me. I'm very dissapointed though, I see this is a common problem on the Routan. The vehicle is not reliable and I'm going to have to swallow my recommendations on this vehicle from now on

[bond007pr]

Seems like they redesigned engine... My '12 has a 3.6???

[huskerdave]

I thought the Routan had a Low Oil Light not just a Low Oil Pressure light. I would take a look and see if that is part of your instrument gauge.. I have a 2011 and I will check mine.

[wrxin]

Just a few thoughts.

1. an engine won't run with "no oil" in it. What is really no oil or just low on oil? (maybe really low)
2. if an engine went from say 5 qts of oil to no oil in 4k miles, you'd know it was happening. You'd see huge plumes of smoke out the exhaust and all the cars crashing behind you from oil slick and your home owners association would be all over you for the pools of oil in your driveway.

Its very common for cars (new ones too) to burn oil, some more than others. If you're bored, do some Google searches. For example, I had a brand new Subaru WRX STI and it used to need a quart of oil every 3-4k miles (totally stock engine).

I have read that some people are having trouble with oil burning in Routan's but IMHO this is true for pretty much every car out there. The key is to keep up on your oil change schedule and do your due diligence and check your old every few thousand miles.

Unfortunately, the good warranty people (sarcasm) like to see dealer performed maintenance and not receipts from Pep Boys from a DIYer. I do my on oil changes on my old Miata but our Routan (under manu warranty and CPO extended warranty) goes to the stealership for its oil changes, just to cover our butts if anything ever happens.

I'm not knocking the original poster, just thinking out loud. I hope VW steps up and helps you out.

[Zambee500]

The 3.6L Pentastar engine debuted in 2011 MY. It replaced the two different V6 designs that Chrysler developed in the 1980s and introduced in the early 1990s. Each of the older two designs came in different sizes, but as it pertains to the Routan there was a 3.8L pushrod and 4.0L single overhead cam for the '09 and '10 model years. The Pentastar replaces the old pushrod and SOHC engines beginning with MY 2011. Supposed to be much more powerful and fuel efficient, but only being 2 years old the jury's still out on longevity.

Whether it's a low oil level or low oil pressure light, by the time it illuminates it's often too late. Had the oil light on my 2000 Altima light up a couple years ago on the interstate and I drove straight to the place where I often had it changed (right off the exit ramp). About a quart left with a 4+ qt. capacity. And I know with the real VWs, the aluminum oil pans often get punctured by road debris and by the time the dashboard light illuminates it's often too late and the engine is toast.

I was doing some online research yesterday and found a TSB on the '09 MY Chrysler minivans for bad PCV valve. Wonder if that plays a part in the missing oil mystery.

[cscsc]

FOUND THIS WHILE SEARCHING FOR PCV ISSUES:

VOLKSWAGEN ROUTAN:ENGINE AND ENGINE COOLING:EXHAUST SYSTEM:EMISSION CONTROL:CRANKCASE (PCV)

VOLKSWAGEN ROUTAN 2009 Safety Report #SB-10C9-S1
VOLKSWAGEN ROUTAN 2009 technical service bulletin was issued Mar 01, 2009.VOLKSWAGEN ROUTAN 2009 had a failed ENGINE AND ENGINE COOLING:EXHAUST SYSTEM:EMISSION CONTROL:CRANKCASE (PCV) . VOLKSWAGEN: PCV VALVE INSPECTION OR REPLACEMENT. A SMALL NUMBER OF AFFECTED VEHICLES MAY HAVE BEEN BUILT WITH AN INCORRECT PCV VALVE. THIS CAN CAUSE SOME VEHICLES TO EXCEED FEDERAL AND/OR CALIFORNIA EMISSIONS STANDARDS AND MAY CAUSE THE ...

COULDN'T FIND THE REST OF THE TEXT AND IT DOESN'T SPECIFY A PARTICULAR ENGINE, BUT MY 4.0 HAS SHOWN SOME OIL USAGE AT 41K MILES, SO, I'M GOING TO REPLACE THE PCV VALVE AND SEE IF THERE'S AN IMPROVEMENT.

[Zambee500]

Make sure you use genuine MOPAR. I can't remember if it was the ChryslerMinivan or DodgeForum boards, but there were a few mentions of after-market PCV valves making things worse.

I just found two coolant leaks, so I'll be taking it in for warranty work soon and might have them also do the PCV too since I had to add a quart of oil during the current OCI. Making a list and checking it twice for warranty items (update the TCU/ECU software to address rough transmission shifting when cold, repair pax side power sliding door (cable broke), PCV/oil loss issue, coolant leaks at radiator cap (found a TSB/recall for that too) and at hose on other side of motor).

[Jnchansafe]

The 3.6L Pentastar engine debuted in 2011 MY. It replaced the two different V6 designs that Chrysler developed in the 1980s and introduced in the early 1990s. Each of the older two designs came in different sizes, but as it pertains to the Routan there was a 3.8L pushrod and 4.0L single overhead cam for the '09 and '10 model years. The Pentastar replaces the old pushrod and SOHC engines beginning with MY 2011. Supposed to be much more powerful and fuel efficient, but only being 2 years old the jury's still out on longevity.

Whether it's a low oil level or low oil pressure light, by the time it illuminates it's often too late. Had the oil light on my 2000 Altima light up a couple years ago on the interstate and I drove straight to the place where I often had it changed (right off the exit ramp). About a quart left with a 4+ qt. capacity. And I know with the real VWs, the aluminum oil pans often get punctured by road debris and by the time the dashboard light illuminates it's often too late and the engine is toast.
I was doing some online research yesterday and found a TSB on the '09 MY Chrysler minivans for bad PCV valve. Wonder if that plays a part in the missing oil mystery.

The dealer Rep. Gave me maintain schedule, I saw the 2011 routN have no timing bell change schedule, is this a mistake or the 2011 routan has no timing bell,thank you!









A mistake. Or the 2011 3.6l engine have no timing bell

[58kafer]

He is correct, no timing belt in the 3.6. But more than likely has a timing chain that doesn't need servicing like a belt does.

Sent from my SGH-T989 using Tapatalk

[Zambee500]

I read elsewhere that the new 3.6L Pentastar has 4 chains The 3.8L from '09-'10 model years is also a chain, I believe. Only the 4.0L has a timing belt, and I believe it's rated for 102k miles intervals.

I've been burned by chains on my last 2 vehicles. Never again. (Of course, I always said I'd never own a Chrysler, especially an automatic transmissioned Chrysler, and what do I do? Buy a Chrysler with an automatic but get VW dealer support with a much shorter warranty. Glutton for punishment.)

[58kafer]

I read elsewhere that the new 3.6L Pentastar has 4 chains The 3.8L from '09-'10 model years is also a chain, I believe. Only the 4.0L has a timing belt, and I believe it's rated for 102k miles intervals.

I've been burned by chains on my last 2 vehicles. Never again. (Of course, I always said I'd never own a Chrysler, especially an automatic transmissioned Chrysler, and what do I do? Buy a Chrysler with an automatic but get VW dealer support with a much shorter warranty. Glutton for punishment.)

Could be worse, VR6's have a timing chain. BEHIND the flywheel! Yep gotta seperate the motor from the trans to do it Not to mention they typically start to make noise around 80K to 90K. And it sounds like a rod knock! For a while I was trying to buy some VR6 Jetta's that had "rod knocks". Usually a cheap score if you don't mind doing the work.

[curteyeblind]

My Routan was also burning oil. Accross 2500 miles, the oil is so low that the dipstick wont even touch the oil. At first I just thought the engine was noisy, but later I found out it was because the oil was extremely low. Sounded similar to a diesel engine.

So with your oil going dry after 4k miles, it seems like a plausible explanation. Every time I turn on my car in the morning a plume of white smoke will fly out, but nothing visible during driving. My car only has 42k on it, so they will definitely be fixing.

BTW, anyone else have problems with power loss accelerating on an incline or from a cold start? I will start to hear rattling and it feels like power is being sucked from my engine. Similar to when the A/C is turned on

[eckk1976]

Whether it's a low oil level or low oil pressure light, by the time it illuminates it's often too late. Had the oil light on my 2000 Altima light up a couple years ago on the interstate and I drove straight to the place where I often had it changed (right off the exit ramp). About a quart left with a 4+ qt. capacity. And I know with the real VWs, the aluminum oil pans often get punctured by road debris and by the time the dashboard light illuminates it's often too late and the engine is toast.

I must say that I somewhat disagree with this. The light is triggered by low oil pressure meaning you have oil pressure until the light comes on. Not as though there is zero pressure for a few minutes before the light comes on. I had a 1980 Rabbit Diesel which I didn't put the oil filter on tight enough and the seal blew out on the highway, I immediately shut it off when the light came on. I have seen many other cars that were OK as long as they were shut down immediately. When the light comes on, don't try and get home, to the dealer, next exit or whatever......shut it off then pull off the road. I think a lot of people try and drive with the light on just for a little bit or don't notice when the light comes on.

[pefer]

- Check the oil dipstick often, every gas fill up or two.
- You will get a sense of how often it needs top up.
- Carry a quart or two of oil in vehicle.

Keep this process, engine will last as long as any other.

Maybe last even longer, as there is less wear on piston rings due to oil loss/passage by them, lubricates top rings and cylinder walls better. - just my opinion, your results may vary.

[nater]

FYI Fred Beans in PA left my oil filter not even hand tight after one of our "free" oil changes. I got a call from my wife day after our service complaining of oil leak. I went to her work to see a puddle (2+ quarts) in parking spot. Oil filter is easily accessible from pass side wheel well without a lift. Put my hand up there and sure-enough, less than hand tight.

This could have happened to you.

[71sbeetle]

Our 09 Routan with 4.0L was consuming a lot of oil, it had 36k miles when we traded it in. And we babied it. We had all the other problems you had too.