To Cabrio or not to Cabrio...that is the question.

[CajunSpike]

Ran out of daylight by the time I read this, to do anything more on the cabrio today.
Will follow up at first opportunity.

When I said there was no continuity on pin2 of the coil wire, I could find no place in the ecu plug that made the dvom beep when probed. I had dvom + to pin2 and was using dvom - to probe the ecu harness connector...dvom sent on continuity testing...no probe made it beep.

For the fuel injector voltage test, I pulled ONE electrical plug off one injector to probe. All else was connected normally.

Can you describe what you call a ohm test. I know set dvom on ohm and it shows a value...thats about all I know.

On the other hand, I replaced the ignition control module on the Passat and now it runs so smooth its scary. Check engine light off at last. Motor starts at a touch of the key. Took it down the highway..no big noticable surge of power like i was expecting from a turbo...just goes in its own time. Also picked up spare turbo from junkyard from exact same model car.
Car is now street legal with plates and insurance. Still though, there are several things that will need some tlc.

Semi Final Passat repair list:

New cat.
Cajun Engineered down pipe from cat to existing muffler system.
used mass airflow sensor from pullapart
used ignition control module from pullapart..new one in hand.
injector #3 wire unplugged.
replaced #3 spark coil..this was probably not necessary cuz icm was causing the spark issue.
cleaned out intake air screen in airbox...was plugged with debris. its a fine screen to keep out big chunks, but it was so full of debris, i don't see how this car breathed at all.
Replaced drivers front tire. Original tire was holed and in trunk. Spare was on car.
A/C lines cut in area of compressor. Got replacement lines from PAP, not yet installed.
Spare turbo from PAP..in garage.
Need to replace cut bumper cover. Another good cover sitting in PAP.
Probably spent $400 getting the car up and running, and lots of work.

Tolusina, much thanks for your time, patience, and direction.
Same goes to everybody else who tried to help.

One down....one to go.

[CajunSpike]

Test results:


KEY OFF!
ECU unplugged.
DVOM on Low OHMS range.
Unplug the Hall plug on the cam position sensor, test continuity between the center pin (green/white) and pin T68/44 of the ECU plug. Re-connect the Hall.
dvom set to continuity test beeped

Unplug the three wire harness connector to the ignition coil assembly. Test continuity between the center harness connector T3/2 (black/red) and pin T68/8 of the ECU harness connector.
dvom set to continuity test beeped

Later, when the ECU is re-connected and the key is on, use the two color tester, see what color lights on T3/2 when not yet connected back to the coil, again when connected. I don't know what to expect here, I need your tests to figure a next step here.
Plastic keyways turned up.
left red, center green, right green. Cranking did not change color of any.
Unless I strip back wires, can't test while plugged in(that I know of).

Key on, T68/6 should show voltage through the fuel pump relay coil.
12.42vdc

Ground T68/6 to operate the fuel pump relay, pump, injectors
Sounds came from engine when grounded

TEST battery voltage to pin T68/31.
12.34vdc

I see three main ECU grounds, T68/1, T68/7 and T68/56, ohm test them to ground. This test I really prefer voltage drop testing directly to the battery negative post, at this point though, more work than it (might) be worth.
dvom set to continuity
1 - beeped
7 - no beep
56 - no beep
recounted several times to make sure I did right contact

There should be key off battery power on T68/54.
12.5vdc

[tolusina]

......

When I said there was no continuity on pin2 of the coil wire, I could find no place in the ecu plug that made the dvom beep when probed. I had dvom + to pin2 and was using dvom - to probe the ecu harness connector...dvom sent on continuity testing...no probe made it beep. .....

........Can you describe what you call a ohm test. I know set dvom on ohm and it shows a value...thats about all I know. .............

Continuity beep functions on DVOMs, I figure, are pretty much intended for household, 120 VAC circuits where, due to the much higher voltage level, low resistance values are (generally) fairly insignificant.

On low voltage systems, especially at logic levels, you really need to use the low OHMS scale to measure resistance.

Do this, and I always do this prior to ANY DVOM circuit testing to verify the leads are good, set the DVOM to it's lowest OHM scale, connect the two test leads together. You will normally see 0.5 ohms, 0.8 ohms, something like that.
This tests the resistance of the DVOM's leads and connections to the meter's board(s) etc..
Back in the days when analog VOMs were common, we had to do this every time to set the ohm meter's trim pot, it was pretty much known as Zeroing the Meter.
Very high line modern DVOMs can do this too, if they have a Delta function, none of my moderately high line meters can do this, inexpensive meters sure can't. So, we see that 0.5, 0.8 ohm lead resistance when we test the leads, then mentally compensate.

When I post to test continuity, I mean to say, measure the resistance of whatever circuit, figure anything less than 2 ohms is ok.
Again, voltage drop tests are far superior to resistance testing, ECUs see and components use voltage, not resistance. Still, sometimes resistance measurement is all we can realistically do.
---
Anyway, back to this......
"Unplug the three wire harness connector to the ignition coil assembly. Test continuity between the center harness connector T3/2 (black/red) and pin T68/8 of the ECU harness connector. "
Measure resistance.
It occurs to me that some previous owner or alarm installer may have placed an interrupt in this circuit to prevent the car from starting. If so, it was a poor choice as it didn't stop the injectors from spraying. Poor choice or not, T3/2 MUST solidly connect to T68/8 or the car ain't gonna start.
I see you got a beep, as implied above, a beep ain't good enough in my shop, I want resistance values.
---

........
Unless I strip back wires, can't test while plugged in(that I know of). ...

Re-re-repeat, make test harnesses from donor car plugs OR cobble up back probes with paper clips or safety pins OR step up to insulation piercing probes.

.....
Ground T68/6 to operate the fuel pump relay, pump, injectors
Sounds came from engine when grounded...

Was this way cool or what?

.....
I see three main ECU grounds, T68/1, T68/7 and T68/56, ohm test them to ground. This test I really prefer voltage drop testing directly to the battery negative post, at this point though, more work than it (might) be worth.
dvom set to continuity
1 - beeped
7 - no beep
56 - no beep
recounted several times to make sure I did right contact...

MEASURE!
Bentley shows both T68/7 and T68/56 go to ground at (circled) 246. 246 is described as "Ground connection (control module), in wiring harness engine", this is on page 97-363.

Lower left of 97-364 shows the shield wire (black) from the crank sensor, car side of the harness, also grounds to (circled) 246, this might help you find the actual location of 246.
(circled) 246 is also shown three times on 97-361, once on 97-362, you go look, ask about what you don't understand. Schematic enlightenment may happen soon.
---
Back to mechanical basics, I don't know if you've covered the possibility that cam, crank, distributor timing may be off, comment please.
Seems to me, that since spark timing is fully computer controlled and based on inputs from cam and crank position sensors (plus knock, load, mixture, temperature when running), if cam and crank inputs aren't in synch, the ECU won't know what to do and may well just nap on the job through boredom.

Without a lab scope, there is no concise way to see the crank position signal accurately, the ACV tests we've done so far only verify a signal is present, not how crisp and precise that signal is.
Again, the possibility that crank tone ring has come loose remains a cause of worry.
---
I think I'm caught up for now, laterzz....

[CajunSpike]

Back to mechanical basics, I don't know if you've covered the possibility that cam, crank, distributor timing may be off, comment please.

I checked timing like this:
align rotor to notch on distributor.
when this was done, camshaft was within 1/2 notch of being right..may have been due to my slight misalignment. Pics posted in previous reply.
mark on flywheel was in center of timing hole.
pulled #1 plug, inserted screwdriver. Piston was at top of stroke.

The dvom I'm using was actually found in my Etienne when I bought it.
When you set it to ohms, its a single setting. No hi range or low range, just ohms.
I'll go back and get ohm readings on those wires and figure how to probe that coil plug.

Oh..and I drove the passat to work today. no guts off the line, but power comes on smoothly as you get moving. wont ever give you neck strain, but it goes ok when its rolling.

You also might have hit something. That car was from california. I wouldn't put it past somebody to put some type of kill switch in it. But then again, if that was the problem, the p.o wouldn't have left the car in the street. The crank sensor was definitely bad from the odb code.

[tolusina]

......The dvom I'm using was actually found in my Etienne when I bought it.
When you set it to ohms, its a single setting. No hi range or low range, just ohms...
....... The crank sensor was definitely bad from the odb code.

Get thee off to Radio Shack for a proper DVOM, even H.F. has meters with more features than you've described. I've got pocket sized freebies better.
...
Crank sensor DTC could have been due to a lack of shielding, like a disconnected ground at (circled) 'N' (whatever number I posted up there ^).

[CajunSpike]

I'll find a pic and write up of the dvom for illustration purposes.

[tolusina]

I realized I posted a bit hastily up there.
A DVOM with a single ohm scale could be auto ranging, ok as long as the user pays close attention to the decimal point and wether or not a "K" or "M" shows on the display.
Best is when there's an option to lock a range, or "range hold".

[CajunSpike]

I think it does display the m or k
Check when I get home.

[hyperlightboards48]

Keep doing diligence you two!!!

[CajunSpike]

This is the meter I'm using. From what I find on the net, it is auto-ranging.
http://www.hobby-hour.com/electronic...multimeter.php

Continuity test

Range: 200Ω
Resolution: 0.1Ω
The buzzer will sound for a measurement of 120Ω or less.

[tolusina]

http://equus.com/Support/Manual

[standard]

Aren't any professional VW mechanics,not dealer,that could give you an advise on this,on your area?

yes

[CajunSpike]

Went back and rechecked a couple wires.

Ecm pin 8 to coil center pin 2 - 0 to 0.1 ohms
Ecm pin 44 to distributor green(center) wire - 0 to 0.1 ohms

[tolusina]

Bmup.

[CajunSpike]

wondering where to go next.

I think I should do the 'try to force a spark by hand' test.

feeling lost.

or retest and trace those grounds...that aren't grounding?

since we've replaced everything and still no spark, it can't be those parts.
also...the correct new spare crankshaft position sensor showed up.
sent back the wrong one and got the right one.

[tolusina]

.....or retest and trace those grounds...that aren't grounding?.....

Yup, that's what I'd get after.
---
No idea if the forced spark test that worked for Hoppy on DigiFant will work on Motronic, I'd think not, you can try anyway. Don't think too much of it if it doesn't work though.
I suspect Motronic needs both cam and crank position signals and in synch before it can spark, otherwise it just wouldn't know what to do and might nap until it gets good inputs.

[CajunSpike]

umm....as a thought to verify if that ring on the crankshaft has an issue....

What if i were to pull the distributor cap.
Do the crank position sensor test again.

Try to notice if the a/c voltage flows about the same time the rotor is pointing to #1.

would that do any good? on second thought probably not. i got a/c voltage as long as the
starter was spinning. it wasn't an on/off like the distributor sensor.

again, i have a brand new not installed crank sensor i can play with.

I've got three people offered to buy this car when its running...go figure.

[standard]

where are you? when do you have some free time?

[denniro]

Whoa!!! Sounds like the cavalry might have arrived.

[CajunSpike]

where are you? when do you have some free time?

i live in marrero on the westbank. Any time/day on weekend wld be ok. Weekday can't be tues or thurs. Love to have help.

[stronglikebull]

there must be a gazillion vortexers telepathically sending the words "start, start, start, start" to you right now...

[tolusina]

Fix the grounds next. We really can't expect anything connected to the ECU to function properly, if at all, if the ECU lacks power or/and ground.
---
No idea if the random spark test as used by Hoppy on his DigiFant can work on Motronic. I'm guessing Motoronic needs both cam and crank position signals and in synch to be able to spark. Without both signals and in synch, it simply won't know what to do, will likely nap until it receives proper signals.

Using a Lab scope, it should take only about five minutes to see cam and crank signals and their synchronization, four and a half minutes of that is spent getting the lab scope out and connected.
---
GROUNDS!! Do I hafta call on Brian for some halp here driving that point home? Vultures are already circling.............

[CajunSpike]

I've got the bentley open to the page with the 99 cabrio ecu wiring diagram. I'll check that out to see if I can find where those grounds connect to the body. I did verify the ecu housing is grounded to the battery.

Also thinking I'm going to go thru every ecu wire to verify its intact..if thats possible in the first place.

IF it means anything, the ecu does show up in vagcom. It can read the model number of the ecu with no issues.

Thanks for not giving up on me.

there must be a gazillion vortexers telepathically sending the words "start, start, start, start" to you right now...

I feel the same way....

[tolusina]

...Also thinking I'm going to go thru every ecu wire to verify its intact..if thats possible in the first place.....

Totally possible, and I encourage you to do so. I expect you'll be wanting some help.

You've already done a bit of this, remember back a few posts where you grounded the fuel pump relay via the ECU plug which powered up the injectors, you then were able to ground the injectors at the ECU plug, heard them clicking?
---
Pin testing was about all we really had figuring out the tough diagnostic problems back in the D-Jetronic days. I pin tested D-Jet so often, I made pin out diagrams, what to look for on each pin, had them pretty much memorized, still recall a lot of that.

[CajunSpike]

where are you? when do you have some free time?

Your tag says New Orleans, but in a previous post, you said:

08-18-2011 07:13 PM #5
i have the entire glove box for 35 dollars,i'm in richmond va

So which is it? LA or VA?

I would love the help...just want to make sure this is for real.


Just realized I never did this test either:

One more easy test on the coil part of the coil assembly.
Business end of the coil secondary wire where you can see it spark, key on. Clip a test lead to ground, momentarily touch the ground lead to Terminal 1 on the coil under the little plastic flap, when you release this ground you should get spark if the coil is good. Careful, careful, DO NOT GROUND Terminal 15 or you WILL let smoke out somewhere (or several somewheres) for sure.

Its now on the todo list.

hmm...tolusina, since you're so awesome on this wiring...what if we went thru the ecu connector in batches of say...5 wires.

start at 1 and just go up.
If you can tell me were that wire goes, I can test them quicker.

1-12v
2-cranksensor green.
3-etc
4-etc
5-etc

Get results and do the next batch of 5.


nah..thats not fair..lemme figure it out in the bentley.

[tolusina]

You've got VagCom??!!

I'm not familiar with it at all, though I expect I'd pick right up on it.
A little pointing and clicking found this page....
http://www.ross-tech.com/vcds/tour/obd-2.html
In the upper screen, I clicked the Mode 2 Freeze Frame button, funny data shows there, like 100% load (wide open throttle), vehicle speed 33km/hr, PID12, Engine RPM ZERO!! How'd they do that? Never mind, it's just an example.

What I did find useful is that PID12, engine RPM, that's the crank sensor.
Down to the second screen is a LAB SCOPE DISPLAY!! I'ma kick you if you've had this all the time and knew it.
You'll have to find the PID for the cam sensor, then show just the cam and crank sensor displays, crank and read.

[CajunSpike]

I have the shareware version of it installed on my laptop. I have the cable I originally bought to reset the airbag lights on my Mk1. That cable has an odb connector on it.

It connects to the passat/cabrio just fine. Not sure I can afford the full version but I can do the registration of the shareware to unlock some of the advanced features....if that would help.

I poked around with it, but was careful not to touch anything that looked dangerous.

Thats how I know the ecu shows up and that the abs light is on because of a bad sensor on the drivers rear wheel.

I was able to use it to connect to the ecu and clear the codes...as well as connect to the tranny controller.

I need to connect it to the passat to see why the abs light is on....for that car.

I know this thread is pretty long, but I mentioned this a few pages back.

Its actually called vcds-lite

I also found they have a free product called vc-scope. Just downloaded that too.

[hyperlightboards48]

You've got VagCom??!!........

I'ma kick you if you've had this all the time and knew it.

:laugh

[tolusina]

.....the abs light is on because of a bad sensor on the drivers rear wheel.....

Bosch ABS controllers were notorious for throwing false codes while being internally trashed, saway too many claims on those on all Euro makes.
Before you change that sensor, test it, same as the crank sensor.
Jack both rear wheels. In Bentley, find the pins for left and right rear wheel speed sensors at the ABS controller plug. Hand spin each wheel while monitoring the AC Voltage generated by each side, compare.
VagCom should also be able to show road speed from each wheel while driving, obviously, all should be the same.
If the sensors test good yet the controller throws a fault code, the controller is at fault.

[CajunSpike]

got this from an earlier vcds lite scan.

VCDS-Lite Version: Release 1.1
Tuesday, 13 March 2012, 22:07:26.


Chassis Type: 1H - VW Golf/Vento III
Scan: 01,02,03,08,12,15,25,41,56

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Address 01: Engine Labels: 037-906-259.LBL
Controller: 037 906 259 Q
Component: MOTRONIC M5.9 AT V02
Coding: 00003
Shop #: WSC 00066
VCID: 2A2781ABC5F1
No fault code found.
Readiness: 0110 1101

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Address 02: Auto Trans Labels: 01M-927-733.LBL
Controller: 01M 927 733 DL
Component: AG4 Getriebe 01M 3531
Coding: 00000
Shop #: WSC 00000
VCID: 7D8D7AF764FF
No fault code found.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Address 03: ABS Brakes Labels: 3A0-907-379.LBL
Controller: 3A0 907 379 D
Component: ABS ITTAE 20 GI V00
Coding: 03704
Shop #: WSC 00000
VCID: 2B2984AFCA0B
1 Fault Found:
00290 - ABS Wheel Speed Sensor; Rear Left (G46)
35-00 - -

[denniro]

Are you OK Cajun? I've been beginning to worry that you might have lost the Fahrvergnügen.

[CajunSpike]

I have kinda stalled. Last few weeks, when the weekend rolls around, its been too rainy to work.
With all the family stuff during the week, its dark before I know it.

Also the passat got damaged in an accident. it was the middle car in a three car pile up.
Good chance there will be no insurance to fix it, so I've been scrounging parts from where ever I can get them.

The rear bumper cover has popped out on the sides, but is not cut or otherwise damaged.
The front took most of the impact. It was low speed but in any case the hood, radiator support, bumper cover, and a few other parts are trashed. The radiator support was pushed back far enough to break the timing belt cover and press on the timing belt. I had to pull it forward to be able to start the car to get it home.




Unless something is broke I can't see, I think I have all the parts to fix it. The metal parts are sitting at a body shop to get painted.

And to top this all off, my dad died friday. He was 81. Went to sleep thursday night and just didn't wake up. If you gotta go...its not a bad way. He was at home, decent health, with people who loved him. Bout all I have to say on that.

So as you can see, the cabrio hasn't been on top of the priority list. Quite frankly, I'm very frustrated with it.

[KrautFed]

My condolences.

[denniro]

My condolences also, hang in there.

[stronglikebull]

just caught up with this thread today. although we only know each other through vortex, our thoughts and condolences are with you and your family.