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    Thread: How to get someone to look at your resume, without a degree

    1. Member
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      02-17-2012 02:40 PM #1
      After a somewhat crappy week at work, I have decided its time to move on. Crappy pay rise, and work that I get nothing out of, leaves me just bored and feeling unhappy. So, I start looking for work, I find a job that lists a bunch of criteria that I fit. Then the bottom line says:

      "Bachelor's degree preferred, or equivalent, plus 3-5 years related experience. Candidates who hold degrees will be given first consideration."

      I don't have a degree (UK citizen, went to college for 2 years, but spent it doing anything but study). I have 5+ years experience, tick all the other boxes for their requirements, yet if someone comes along with a degree, they get first consideration regardless. What do I have to do in order to get considered?

      One interview I had a while back was going really well, right up until the guy who would have been my managers manager asked me if I was planning to get my degree. I felt like it's an impossible question to answer. On the one hand, sure I would love to get one, but I am 33, and I can't afford not to be working. Also, I feel that to a potential employer, if I tell them I would like to get my degree, it would raise a red flag as I am going to likely either not be in it for the long term, or looking for days out to study etc. But, if I say no, then it seems like I don't care. What really sucks is that these are jobs where I have plenty of experience.

      Any ideas? or is it simply luck?
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    2. 02-17-2012 03:07 PM #2
      First, I wouldn't make assumptions for the hiring manager, in regards to your consideration of a bachelors degree. Sure, there may be a few individuals who would not hire you if they felt your education plans might interfere with work. Nonetheless, I bet most will be open to the idea, provided you can provide a fairly high level of assurance that you have a plan in place to handle both work and school

      Second, finishing your degree is a great idea. If you're 33 now, do you really think it will get easier to finish a degree when you're 35? 40? 45? Probably not. While I wouldn't recommend going through an online 'degree factory' program, there are definitely programs out there designed to accommodate working individuals.

      Hell, if you need to retake the basic education courses (ie, the first two years of a standard four year program), most community colleges offer night/online courses that are dirt cheap and will probably fit your schedule. After completing an associates, you would only need to finish two years of schooling from an accredited university. The greatest benefit here is that you would only have to pay for two years of 'real college' but you get to take advantage of a real alumni network, real recruiting events, and have better 'degree-brand-recognition' than anyone who went through an online school like Phoenix.

      In short, don't let the fear of losing a job stop you from completing your education. Just be ready to explain how you plan on structuring your work/school schedule, so as to provide assurance that you will be a reliable hire.

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      02-17-2012 03:09 PM #3
      Well, all I can say is go for it. What have you got to lose? Them say "No."? AAAnnnd What if there are 5 openings and only one of the people that applies has a degree? Go for it and if you don't make it move on to the next one. I'm sure them hiring doesn't soley rest on having a degree, IMO on the job experience is just as if not more important than having a degree.

      just my .02
      best of luck!

      edit: what that guy said ^^ is also pretty good. Take every opportunity you can to get an education...something no one can take away from you.
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      02-17-2012 03:15 PM #4
      Quote Originally Posted by Rookie77 View Post
      Second, finishing your degree is a great idea.
      Thanks for the reply. Getting a degree is definitely something I would like to do, and my wife and I have talked about. It's just currently not on the cards, not enough money, and she works evenings so I have to take care of our boys (4 and 6) so I don't have time either.


      Quote Originally Posted by fresh_paint
      Well, all I can say is go for it. What have you got to lose? Them say "No."? AAAnnnd What if there are 5 openings and only one of the people that applies has a degree? Go for it and if you don't make it move on to the next one. I'm sure them hiring doesn't soley rest on having a degree, IMO on the job experience is just as if not more important than having a degree.
      Thanks, I am definitely going to apply regardless. While the commute is a little longer than I would like, I am fairly certain the company has a good telecommute policy.
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      02-17-2012 03:47 PM #5
      There's absolutely no reason you can't work full time and earn your degree at the same time. You may or may not be able to handle a full course load on top of work - but most employers dont expect you to finish in x amount of time. As long as you're actively working towards your degree, I think that shows a lot of initiative. 2 classes or so a quarter/semester should be do-able.

      I currently work 45'ish hours a week and take a full course load at the university. Does my social life suck because I'm in class 4 nights a week until 9PM? Yes. Will it be worth it in the end? Yes.

    6. Senior Member ClockworkChad's Avatar
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      02-17-2012 04:42 PM #6
      Quote Originally Posted by naiku View Post
      After a somewhat crappy week at work, I have decided its time to move on. Crappy pay rise, and work that I get nothing out of, leaves me just bored and feeling unhappy. So, I start looking for work, I find a job that lists a bunch of criteria that I fit. Then the bottom line says:

      "Bachelor's degree preferred, or equivalent, plus 3-5 years related experience. Candidates who hold degrees will be given first consideration."

      I don't have a degree (UK citizen, went to college for 2 years, but spent it doing anything but study). I have 5+ years experience, tick all the other boxes for their requirements, yet if someone comes along with a degree, they get first consideration regardless. What do I have to do in order to get considered?

      One interview I had a while back was going really well, right up until the guy who would have been my managers manager asked me if I was planning to get my degree. I felt like it's an impossible question to answer. On the one hand, sure I would love to get one, but I am 33, and I can't afford not to be working. Also, I feel that to a potential employer, if I tell them I would like to get my degree, it would raise a red flag as I am going to likely either not be in it for the long term, or looking for days out to study etc. But, if I say no, then it seems like I don't care. What really sucks is that these are jobs where I have plenty of experience.

      Any ideas? or is it simply luck?

      its anything but luck. it says a lot if you are saying in an interview that you want to grow and put your nose to the grindstone and increase your role within the company etc etc and then they ask why you havent gone back to school in 13 years and you say because you havent found time or dont have money. not all good jobs require degrees, but the majority of them do.

      Quote Originally Posted by scandalous_cynce View Post
      There's absolutely no reason you can't work full time and earn your degree at the same time. You may or may not be able to handle a full course load on top of work - but most employers dont expect you to finish in x amount of time. As long as you're actively working towards your degree, I think that shows a lot of initiative. 2 classes or so a quarter/semester should be do-able.

      I currently work 45'ish hours a week and take a full course load at the university. Does my social life suck because I'm in class 4 nights a week until 9PM? Yes. Will it be worth it in the end? Yes.
      this.

      people that want to make it happen do make it happen. its a sacrifice and is hard but for most it is ultimately worth it.
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    7. 02-17-2012 05:03 PM #7
      In the short term if degree is an issue I would attempt to back the decision maker off the degree by stating something like - to the extent that a degree signals an ability to perform at a professional level, I offer my five years of experience with XYZ and reference from...

      I like the idea of leaving your option open to get a degree "to expand your role within the company."

      Tie these two thoughts together.

      Going back to school sucks (I did it). At least try and make someone else pay for it.

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      02-17-2012 05:19 PM #8
      You can't control whether or not someone looks at your resume after seeing you have no degree.

      You have several scenarios against you.

      1) the economy sucks and for every job posting there are hundreds of applicants. Thousands of HR departments across the country are using that as a way to screen the applicant pool. And it does a good job; probably knocking out 60+% of the list. In most cases it is a valid requirement of the job and in many more cases it's possible to get a position that requires a degree if you don't have one. Again, you can't control that.

      2) There is a trend in many companies that career growth positions go to individuals with college degrees. They prove to be highly trainable and they retain and apply their training to the company's benefit.


      Saying that you'd like to get a degree in an interview is like saying you'd like to date Gisele. No ****. What are you doing about it? What college, what courses are you signed up for? what are your grades? if you're just sitting on the bench, don't bring it up. Conversely, if you really are serious about it, most employers don't see that as a red flag. They see someone that's trying to improve themselves. Please do your kids favor and tell them that school doesn't end with High School. They need to go to college and get it done early in their career. It's easy to eat Top Ramen and work nights and weekends in College, but sucks donkey balls to have to do that when you're in your mid-30's with kids.


      To echo Rookie77, a college degree provides a clearly definable layer of job security or job choice in almost every situation. You do NOT want to have these feelings when you're 45 and the economy takes a dump like it has right now.

      Lastly, before it comes up (and it always will), based on my experience in recruiting for nearly 10yrs and owning my own headhunting business for 2yrs, there is simply no substitution (for the masses) to having gone through a 4yr, bricks and mortar college. Time and again, I've had hope that "this time will be the time" when a candidate with no degree can cut the mustard, but it just doesn't happen. The rare exceptions are people like Bill Gates and Steve Jobs type personalities that can succeed in any environment.

      Bottom line, just keep applying and let the companies either see value in your experience or ding you b/c you don't have a degree.

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      02-20-2012 09:38 AM #9
      Quote Originally Posted by Diamond Dave View Post
      Please do your kids favor and tell them that school doesn't end with High School. They need to go to college and get it done early in their career.
      Both my wife and I are already doing this, despite how young they are, we feel that it makes sense to make them aware that the hard work they put in now, will get them good grades through school, into a good college, and ultimately into a good job.

      As I already wrote, ideally I would get my degree now. But, sadly it really is currently not an option. I work full time during the day, and my wife works evenings, there is nothing spare to put towards earning my degree (and if we did have that spare, it would first go to medical insurance, and second to college funds for our boys). So, trust me, while it is something I realize is important and would be beneficial, right now, it's just not possible.

      Thank you for all the replies, plenty of good advice. I went ahead and applied last Friday, now keeping my fingers crossed.
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      02-21-2012 07:03 AM #10
      Quote Originally Posted by naiku View Post
      I work full time during the day, and my wife works evenings, there is nothing spare to put towards earning my degree
      I was in a similar situation for many years, I took e-classes during that period. Not the perfect situation but it worked out.

      I went ahead and applied last Friday...
      And you should have. Good luck.

    11. Senior Member ClockworkChad's Avatar
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      02-21-2012 08:08 AM #11
      Quote Originally Posted by naiku View Post
      Both my wife and I are already doing this, despite how young they are, we feel that it makes sense to make them aware that the hard work they put in now, will get them good grades through school, into a good college, and ultimately into a good job.

      As I already wrote, ideally I would get my degree now. But, sadly it really is currently not an option. I work full time during the day, and my wife works evenings, there is nothing spare to put towards earning my degree (and if we did have that spare, it would first go to medical insurance, and second to college funds for our boys). So, trust me, while it is something I realize is important and would be beneficial, right now, it's just not possible.

      Thank you for all the replies, plenty of good advice. I went ahead and applied last Friday, now keeping my fingers crossed.
      give them a couple days and then give them a follow up call, ask for the person in charge of hiring, ask if he received your resume and if he had any questions and how soon he is looking to reach out to people for interviews
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      02-21-2012 06:25 PM #12
      Quote Originally Posted by naiku View Post
      Thank you for all the replies, plenty of good advice. I went ahead and applied last Friday, now keeping my fingers crossed.
      So, make sure you track all that information in an Excel spreadsheet (for all those companies really).

      At some point in the future, the person they think they're going to hire will back out, fail the background screen or **** the bed in the position. You want to position yourself with that recruiter as "well there's one more guy, he doesn't' have a degree, but he is consistent about calling me at 8:05AM and he's always polite and sounds motivated. We could give him a shot."




      Quote Originally Posted by FlashRedGLS1.8T View Post
      I was in a similar situation for many years, I took e-classes during that period. Not the perfect situation but it worked out.
      Nothing against you but I can't stress enough how poor that idea is.

      1) e-education, online schools, virtual schools, etc. do not carry the weight a traditional degree would (DeVry, AIU, etc.). In fact, they have a laughable reputation.

      2) e-education, online schools, virtual schools, etc. are for-profit schools that may or may not disclose to you their actual current accredidation status (hint, most are being revoked).

      3) e-education, online schools, virtual schools, etc. typically prey on people that truly don't have the money to go to school, but they provide high interest loans that students are fully responsible for; even though in their pitch the return policy is downplayed significantly.

      For reference, I supported an online school back in my agency days. We made INCREDIBLE money sending them admissions advisors, but the horror stories were shocking. We had admissions advisors quitting because they could hardly look themselves in the mirror based on what lies they told to people durijng the day about how beneficial the degree would be ,etc.

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      02-22-2012 08:20 AM #13
      Quote Originally Posted by Diamond Dave View Post
      For reference, I supported an online school back in my agency days. We made INCREDIBLE money sending them admissions advisors, but the horror stories were shocking. We had admissions advisors quitting because they could hardly look themselves in the mirror based on what lies they told to people durijng the day about how beneficial the degree would be ,etc.
      we have a guy here that runs his own private for profit recruiting desk.
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      02-22-2012 08:31 AM #14
      Quote Originally Posted by Diamond Dave View Post
      So, make sure you track all that information in an
      Nothing against you but I can't stress enough how poor that idea is.

      1) e-education, online schools, virtual schools, etc. do not carry the weight a traditional degree would (DeVry, AIU, etc.). In fact, they have a laughable reputation.

      2) e-education, online schools, virtual schools, etc. are for-profit schools that may or may not disclose to you their actual current accredidation status (hint, most are being revoked).

      3) e-education, online schools, virtual schools, etc. typically prey on people that truly don't have the money to go to school, but they provide high interest loans that students are fully responsible for; even though in their pitch the return policy is downplayed significantly.
      Nothing against you, but I think you are making a terrible generalization and really not helping here. Many traditional schools are offering virtual classrooms now and there are more everyday because it works for people already in their careers and for those that a traditional setting won't. In fact, I'd venture to guess that with the ability to do so much remotely now, that this doesn't continue at an even faster pace. If this is the option that a person looking to complete their degree with, then by all means, they should go for it.

      The way that you get an education means very little in today's world, outside of a handful of careers that may still value the traditional setting.

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      02-22-2012 09:28 AM #15
      Quote Originally Posted by Papa Dras View Post
      Nothing against you, but I think you are making a terrible generalization and really not helping here. Many traditional schools are offering virtual classrooms now and there are more everyday because it works for people already in their careers and for those that a traditional setting won't. In fact, I'd venture to guess that with the ability to do so much remotely now, that this doesn't continue at an even faster pace. If this is the option that a person looking to complete their degree with, then by all means, they should go for it.

      The way that you get an education means very little in today's world, outside of a handful of careers that may still value the traditional setting.
      theres a thin line there dras, there are traditional schools that offer it, some are good, some arent, but most of the places offering online classes are in the private for profit sector (art institute/lincoln tech/any of the ones you see infomercials for) and as DD said, they are usually in some sort of accreditation issues. There was one class locally where the professor quit 2 months into the class and they couldnt come up with a solution so they just passed all the kids anyway for graphic design. I took a bunch of online classes to finish my degree on time since i lost credits transferring, online classes really dont teach you very much...
      Last edited by ClockworkChad; 02-22-2012 at 01:05 PM.
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    16. 02-22-2012 12:52 PM #16
      Both my local State University and (Community) College offer a very large catalog of e-learning courses in addition to the traditional class room schedule. I'm not sure where you are getting that "most of the places offering online classes are private sector," but I can't imagine that is actually true.

      I took two classes with the same teacher, one classroom and the other e-learning based and both were great courses. With the kind of availability they had I don't understand why anyone would have to resort to a crappy private sector "University" in first place, so maybe my city is an exception.
      Last edited by Mk3WhiteWolf; 02-22-2012 at 12:59 PM.

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      02-22-2012 01:16 PM #17
      Quote Originally Posted by Mk3WhiteWolf View Post
      Both my local State University and (Community) College offer a very large catalog of e-learning courses in addition to the traditional class room schedule. I'm not sure where you are getting that "most of the places offering online classes are private sector," but I can't imagine that is actually true.

      I took two classes with the same teacher, one classroom and the other e-learning based and both were great courses. With the kind of availability they had I don't understand why anyone would have to resort to a crappy private sector "University" in first place, so maybe my city is an exception.

      well, im a recruiter and dave used to be a recruiter, i dont know how many resumes he sees a day but i see anywhere from 20-100 at least. so i might know a thing or two about what people are doing to 'get an education' - with the term being used loosley.

      see what i bolded there, thats exactly what you dont understand. those campus recruiters are comission/bonus based, they make profit on getting people to sign up for the school. the people usually going to them arent kids that are coming out of highschool with a 3.4 gpa, they are dropouts with GEDs or people with bad GPAs that want to not to manual labor anymore, so they see a cheap school that they can do on the computer at night while watching cake boss and think that they will give them the professional skills they need to move up from 11 bucks an hour to 14 an hour. but the schools suck, the learning experience sucks, and the school just wasted their money. i get people with MBA's from phoenix online all the time and they go right in the shredder.
      Ferrari Scuderia 2012 - "The people who speak badly about me then tremble and cry when they want to have their picture taken with me” - F. Alonso
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    18. 02-22-2012 02:06 PM #18
      Quote Originally Posted by ClockworkChad View Post
      well, im a recruiter and dave used to be a recruiter, i dont know how many resumes he sees a day but i see anywhere from 20-100 at least. so i might know a thing or two about what people are doing to 'get an education' - with the term being used loosley..
      Just so we're clear, I'm only taking issue with your comment that most online classes are offered by private sector schools, and that somehow there is a "thin line" between a private virtual/e-learning school, and the online course offerings of a traditional college or university. I don't agree. However, I do agree that some of the heavily advertised online/virtual schools appear to be a poor choice for a greater education.

      Quote Originally Posted by ClockworkChad View Post
      those campus recruiters are comission/bonus based, they make profit on getting people to sign up for the school. the people usually going to them arent kids that are coming out of highschool with a 3.4 gpa, they are dropouts with GEDs or people with bad GPAs that want to not to manual labor anymore, so they see a cheap school that they can do on the computer at night while watching cake boss and think that they will give them the professional skills they need to move up from 11 bucks an hour to 14 an hour...
      So then you agree that it probably isn't a matter of the size of the e-learning schedule when compared to a traditional school, but just that people want to take the easy way out and get sucked into the heavy recruiting and advertising of the virtual schools.
      Last edited by Mk3WhiteWolf; 02-22-2012 at 02:08 PM.

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      02-22-2012 02:30 PM #19
      Quote Originally Posted by Mk3WhiteWolf View Post
      Just so we're clear, I'm only taking issue with your comment that most online classes are offered by private sector schools, and that somehow there is a "thin line" between a private virtual/e-learning school, and the online course offerings of a traditional college or university. I don't agree. However, I do agree that some of the heavily advertised online/virtual schools appear to be a poor choice for a greater education.



      So then you agree that it probably isn't a matter of the size of the e-learning schedule when compared to a traditional school, but just that people want to take the easy way out and get sucked into the heavy recruiting and advertising of the virtual schools.
      so youre taking a ton of online courses currently and are trying to argue with me to prove the point that they are just as good is what i'm getting from all of this, without having a real world perspective on the job market and who is getting hired for what and how competitive it is?
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      02-22-2012 02:45 PM #20
      What type of jobs are you recruiting for, Chad? I can only speak for IT, but I can say without question that your stance doesn't apply for this industry.

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      02-22-2012 03:00 PM #21
      Quote Originally Posted by Papa Dras View Post
      What type of jobs are you recruiting for, Chad? I can only speak for IT, but I can say without question that your stance doesn't apply for this industry.
      IT is its own special niche that doesnt follow any rules.

      we are primarily in the light industrial and manufacturing sectors, but we do a lot of office placements as well. end of the day the online degree doesnt hold up compared to the traditional brick and mortar school. taking a history requirement online is one thing, and usually is just fine, but more and more schools are online heavy and the difference in the quality of the candidate shows to the point where my customers tell me to exlude them
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      02-22-2012 03:05 PM #22
      so true.

      it is interesting that industry and manufacturing is picky like that. never would have thunk it.

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      02-22-2012 03:45 PM #23
      Quote Originally Posted by Papa Dras View Post
      so true.

      it is interesting that industry and manufacturing is picky like that. never would have thunk it.
      well, the other thing is that its a buyers market, there are a ton of people applying for jobs. i cant remember the last time we filled an entry level job with an entry level person, most are laid of people with 3-5 years experience willing to take the job for under what they should, unless they are incredibly skilled (see 85k entry level engineer). I just filled a 'degree preferred' marketing position with someone with a BS and 5 years experience, hes overqualified but was the best option for him at that time.

      I might be making the switch to IT, was approached by a company locally. we'll see
      Ferrari Scuderia 2012 - "The people who speak badly about me then tremble and cry when they want to have their picture taken with me” - F. Alonso
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      02-23-2012 03:33 AM #24
      Quote Originally Posted by ClockworkChad View Post
      end of the day the online degree doesnt hold up compared to the traditional brick and mortar school.
      Is it really a matter of the on-line versus traditional classroom format, or the quality and reputation of the school? While the marginal for-profit schools may be more likely to offer on-line format courses, wouldn't an on-line course at a reputable regionally accredited non-profit community college or university* be better than a traditional classroom course at a marginal for-profit school?

      *E.g. http://mitx.mit.edu/

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      02-23-2012 09:11 AM #25
      Quote Originally Posted by tjl View Post
      Is it really a matter of the on-line versus traditional classroom format, or the quality and reputation of the school? While the marginal for-profit schools may be more likely to offer on-line format courses, wouldn't an on-line course at a reputable regionally accredited non-profit community college or university* be better than a traditional classroom course at a marginal for-profit school?

      *E.g. http://mitx.mit.edu/
      community college doesnt really do much for you if you actually physically attend it.... although they are accredited and more reputable on average.
      Ferrari Scuderia 2012 - "The people who speak badly about me then tremble and cry when they want to have their picture taken with me” - F. Alonso
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    26. Member BetterByDesign's Avatar
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      02-23-2012 11:55 AM #26
      Highlight your real world experience and put your education last.

      You just want to get in the door for an interview. At that point, advantage should go to you.

      Any hiring manager that has authority to actually hire is not going to overlook a qualified person due to lack of a bachelor's degree.

      If you dont get a response - think of it as a blessing and move on.

      If you do end up with the job, be aware you could end up frustrated as a person with lots of experience surrounded by people with no experience with bachelor's degree.

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      03-02-2012 08:35 AM #27
      Quick update, got past this initial stage and they have sent me a list of questions to answer. I am fairly sure if I can give good answers to the questions, that I will be in with a shot at an interview.

      My problem is, I am struggling to come up with answers, for 2 of the questions. While I know I have something to answer, I am having a hard time picking something, and then wording it. If anyone may be able to help, please PM me.

      Thanks.
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    28. Banned Chilledman's Avatar
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      03-04-2012 06:44 PM #28
      At 33 what will a degree in your field teach you ?

      I wasted my time going for an online one , and I knew more then the teacher did.

      Unless I am going to a Stamp issuing Mechanical Engineer a 4 year degree will be a total waste for me.

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      03-05-2012 05:44 PM #29
      Quote Originally Posted by ClockworkChad View Post
      those campus recruiters are comission/bonus based, they make profit on getting people to sign up for the school.
      Illegal in the United States, FYI. While there might be a bonus, it isn't related to specific enrollments.


      Quote Originally Posted by ClockworkChad View Post
      i get people with MBA's from phoenix online all the time and they go right in the shredder.
      Agreed, a really bad joke when you find out how much they paid to have a degree from an institution that is a joke in the Business world.



      Quote Originally Posted by Papa Dras View Post
      Nothing against you, but I think you are making a terrible generalization and really not helping here.
      Don't worry, I have thick skin

      I apologize if my comments were taken as the only scenario. In fact, in the short time I was recruiting (almost 10yrs), it was not uncommon to evaluate candidates with online education certificates against traditional bricks & mortar educated candidates. I recruited corporate business positions and Manufacturing operations leadership (programs, engineering, operations, accounting/finance).

      I frequently saw clear disparity in the caliber of candidates that had an online education as opposed to traditional education. There is no replacement for human contact at this point. Can you learn in a vacuum without personal interaction? Yes. Does learning in a vacuum yield the same quality? No.

      Also, I did have managers that plainly told me "I need someone with a degree for this role, and no, it can't be an online degree." Or they'd joke about what a load of crap online education is. And I had to agree, the caliber of candidates I ever saw with University of Phoenix was just poor (and super expensive for those poor bastards).




      Quote Originally Posted by ClockworkChad View Post
      well, im a recruiter and dave used to be a recruiter, i dont know how many resumes he sees a day but i see anywhere from 20-100 at least.
      You got me beat! I see zero per day, thank God.



      Quote Originally Posted by ClockworkChad View Post
      I might be making the switch to IT, was approached by a company locally.
      I'd recommend doing that even if it means a marginal cut in pay. Seriously.



      Quote Originally Posted by Mk3WhiteWolf View Post
      Just so we're clear, I'm only taking issue with your comment that most online classes are offered by private sector schools, and that somehow there is a "thin line" between a private virtual/e-learning school, and the online course offerings of a traditional college or university.
      Just so I'm being clear, online education is not highly regarded by much of the working world.

      But beyond that statement, I just didn't see the quality I needed when I was recruiting, from online education schools based on my history with candidates. I mean, how many suspect candidates do you need to see from online schools before you just say "OK, everyone from University of Phoenix gets shredded"?


      Quote Originally Posted by Mk3WhiteWolf View Post
      So then you agree that it probably isn't a matter of the size of the e-learning schedule when compared to a traditional school, but just that people want to take the easy way out and get sucked into the heavy recruiting and advertising of the virtual schools.
      Not really, the final product isn't awesome. Companies can hire mediocre all they want; they pay recruiters for awesome.



      Quote Originally Posted by tjl View Post
      Is it really a matter of the on-line versus traditional classroom format, or the quality and reputation of the school?
      That's pretty much it. Going to a bricks and mortar school that isn't a top 100 school is about 1,000 times better bang for the buck than any online learning.

      Final thought on this: e-learning is great when you want to learn only "that" thing. When you want a well-rounded education, including learning the-things-that-college-doesn't-teach-you, you can only get that by showing up in person at University. Also, for extra bonus points, don't go to a commuter university; go somewhere there is a student population and live on campus.

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      03-06-2012 01:33 PM #30
      And, another update......... interview tomorrow, 11am

      Really hoping it goes well.
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      03-08-2012 08:07 AM #31
      Craziest start to an interview I have ever had. I won't go into details, but it involves getting stuck behind slow traffic / road works the entire way there, getting there with minutes to spare and having to park in the additional visitor lot (a 5 minute walk to reception) then the security guard not being able to find the person interviewing me, my interview finally started about an hour late.

      Thankfully it went really well. I should know by the middle/end of next week. 4 people on the short list for 1 position. Fingers crossed.
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    32. 03-19-2012 01:30 PM #32
      Hey fellas, I am in a very same situation but I'm 25 years old. I've completed 2 years in automotive technology got into general motors program that the school was offering. I started in 2007 right after high school, worked part time and went school full time. Graduated in 09. Been working ever since. I just got a job at just tires as service advisor but I'm starting to feel that this job is slowing my experience and ability to expand. I'm tired of the retail world and want to move on to a bigger automotive company. I would say I have about 6+ years of experience but no engineer degree. Would it be better and get back in school and finish 2 more years? or get into a program where manufacturers offer classes and education?

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      03-19-2012 02:25 PM #33
      Quote Originally Posted by deziking View Post
      Would it be better and get back in school and finish 2 more years? or get into a program where manufacturers offer classes and education?
      Few things can replace the ability of a 4yr degree to open doors to future employment. Until then, find out how to be better than any employee at your job and you'll be on your way to building your reputation.


      Although, there's nothing wrong with taking time off from school to get your head straight or save up money. I took almost 6yrs off after my first 2yrs and then came back to finish up. Although the bartending, retail management experience, and 100+ days/year snowboarding in Tahoe didn't provide me with direct career experience, it did have a drastic impact on my corporate awareness and my motivation to finish my degree.

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      03-19-2012 03:00 PM #34
      Quote Originally Posted by Diamond Dave View Post
      You can't control whether or not someone looks at your resume after seeing you have no degree.

      You have several scenarios against you.

      1) the economy sucks and for every job posting there are hundreds of applicants. Thousands of HR departments across the country are using that as a way to screen the applicant pool. And it does a good job; probably knocking out 60+% of the list. In most cases it is a valid requirement of the job and in many more cases it's possible to get a position that requires a degree if you don't have one. Again, you can't control that.

      2) There is a trend in many companies that career growth positions go to individuals with college degrees. They prove to be highly trainable and they retain and apply their training to the company's benefit.
      There's a third potential issue here, Dave: Immigration.

      Companies in certain industries have employed foreign nationals that require visa sponsorship. As part of the employment process, the employer has to attest to the DOL that to do this job at this company, an employee MUST possess certain baseline education and experience requirements. That then sets a minimum hiring bar for anyone else hired into that job title. Not following that opens the company up to legal exposure.

      So be aware--in certain industries, with certain companies, the degree may not just be an arbitrary requirement; it may be mandatory.

      As to your current status: It really depends on the demand for your skillset in your particular geography. If you have high-demand skills/experience (ex: iOS/Android developer), you shouldn't have a problem. If you don't, however...

    35. 03-19-2012 04:48 PM #35
      Quote Originally Posted by Diamond Dave View Post
      Few things can replace the ability of a 4yr degree to open doors to future employment. Until then, find out how to be better than any employee at your job and you'll be on your way to building your reputation.


      Although, there's nothing wrong with taking time off from school to get your head straight or save up money. I took almost 6yrs off after my first 2yrs and then came back to finish up. Although the bartending, retail management experience, and 100+ days/year snowboarding in Tahoe didn't provide me with direct career experience, it did have a drastic impact on my corporate awareness and my motivation to finish my degree.
      Wow thanks for the input, I just don't know what classes to select and what degree. Buddies down in SIU are taking 2 more years of course there in automotive technology. I don't know what school to look at. Basically want to get the best out of those 2 years in learning that's all.

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