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    The Car Lounge
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    Thread: The Chinese clone thread... gone wild

    1. 02-24-2012 09:37 AM #141
      Quote Originally Posted by nemo1ner View Post

      1. Nice pic of a car that's not made anymore...

      2. Nice pic of a logo BYD hasn't used in years...

      3. A car that was made by some random guy... Weak, extremely weak. At least he isn't selling conversion kits like these folks. I guess that's representative of the American auto industry, huh?

      4. That's an unofficial rendering. Here's what the Huatai B11 actually looks like:

    2. Member arethirdytwo's Avatar
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      02-24-2012 10:15 AM #142
      ... What I just said? Unless you are a major player (Giant, Trek, Spec) your designs are being tossed around Asia pretty often. Not mention Pinnarello/Colnago are NOT boutique. Even their Dogma is built in Taiwan and painted in Italy. For a hefty sum of $5500 frame only.

      We call it boutique but it's not anymore. Take Scott for example. Their CR1 revolutionized the industry about 10 years ago. They developed that frame but even then within a few years the manufacturing companies started selling copies (Fuji).

      The other groups are too big. If they sold off a Specialized design six months in it would be too much and would most likely end a relationship.

      To be honest the bike industry is even more blatant than Auto. I worked in it for 10 years and have toured Treks production as well as Taiwan producers for Zipp and SRAM.

      Quote Originally Posted by bzcat View Post
      Bicycle industry is a little different than cars. The Taiwanese companies (Giant, Merida etc) are the world leaders in material innovation. They are the one driving new technologies in frame design, not the boutique firms in Europe or US, who often license these new frame designs and production process from The Taiwanese firms.

      Most of the high end road bikes sold in the US are OEM designs by Taiwanese companies sold under various American brands (like Trek). China makes mostly low end parts bin bikes, and of course, knock offs.

    3. Member
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      02-24-2012 10:35 AM #143
      Quote Originally Posted by Analyst View Post
      If they are so discontent with these "blatant copies" why don't they walk out of the partnerships? Nobody's forcing them to be partnered with such evil companies.

      That tells me they either they aren't copies, or the partners simply don't care. Either way... If these companies, who got their IP so unjustly stolen, are not complaining, why are you?

      Check your facts before spouting your bull****. Zotye bought several older gen Fiat platforms, including the Palio, Siena, Multipla and Strada, from Fiat.
      Having spent 3 years in Shanghai, and working with both Western and local clients in the auto industry, I think your a bit naive in your approach.

      Your first statement/open ended question is a pretty simple one to answer: growth. If your a company that wants to grow beyond the nitche volumes of say, Aston, who will never sell volumes enough to want to bypass the heavy tax tariff's that the Chinese government places on 'imports' (I.E. your a outsider who lacks a Chinese partner, regardless of the origin of such parts---for example, Apple products in mainland China are priced higher due to tax relative to the rest of Asia Pacific--despite the fact that their products are manufactured in China.) and is a brand that consumers will happily pay tax for in order to have a luxury brand or import the car on their own etc. So while forging these partnerships may seem strange, it is born out of a company's desire to grow sales and volume within the Chinese market.

      And regarding the relationship between local and western companies, things get REALLY contentious at times, and to not recognize the fact that mainland Chinese society was a closed one by it's governments own admission--means that tradtional business is conducted entirely differently in Chinese boardrooms. There is a LOT of 'compromoses' made to save every last dollar/yuan.If you took a proposal to develop and build a car for the minimum amount of capital--say 70% of what it costs to develop a car from scratch--and include all the content we buyers in other, more developed parts of the world would expect, and took said proposal to the majority of local Chinese car companies, you would be laughed out of the room. It's a very young market--especially from a development standpoint.

      I had an interesting discussion with a few 'ex pat' car guys regarding China. The consumer is maturing much faster then the mainland product. It will be fascinating to see companies adapt to the rapidly changing market.

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      02-24-2012 10:58 AM #144
      Quote Originally Posted by Analyst View Post
      bzcat's assumptions that the copies are unauthorized are completely unsupported by evidence. Yet (s)he still parades them as fact.
      Go read the last 10 years of The Economist, genius. You are either willfully ignorant or are being paid to post propaganda.

      And yes, I spell-checked this post so Vad wouldn't call me out.
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    5. Member l5gcw0b's Avatar
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      02-24-2012 02:17 PM #145
      clones, if you ask nicely they will stop after building 50-100 thousand.

      copies, perfectly legal.
      Last edited by l5gcw0b; 02-24-2012 at 02:22 PM.

    6. Member GolfTango's Avatar
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      02-24-2012 02:25 PM #146
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    7. Member DUTCHMANia's Avatar
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      04-22-2012 01:15 PM #147
      i love this thread.
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    8. Geriatric Member BRealistic's Avatar
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      04-22-2012 01:31 PM #148
      Quote Originally Posted by J-Tim View Post
      "Michael Alone".

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