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    Thread: considering going to .658 5th gear: how much mpg will I gain and how much accel will I lose?

    1. Banned 85_305's Avatar
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      02-22-2012 05:36 PM #26
      Interesting so all I need is the cable, d/l the program and a 99$ license fee (for activation?) and I'm g2g??

    2. 02-22-2012 08:44 PM #27
      I'll skip the BS and go straight to answering the original question ...

      I have a 0.681 5th gear in my car. P-D 5th was originally 0.744.

      From looking at the BSFC charts, under ideal conditions this should reduce consumption by around 3 - 4% but only under specific conditions - 5th gear above a certain road speed.

      The difficulty is that you are not always in 5th, and the taller 5th does force the use of 4th under some conditions where you could have used the original 5th without lugging. A fair and realistic estimate is that the saving is more like half of what the BSFC map suggests, i.e. around 2%, and it will only exceed this under the specific conditions of being at more than around 80 - 90 km/h steady in 5th gear without major hills. You will have to downshift to 4th more to go up hills.

      I crunched the numbers based on 2% fuel savings (i.e. hardly enough to notice on a day-to-day basis) and it worked out to break even around 300,000 km, which I am now well past.

      The bigger advantage is the quieter cruising at higher speeds on the motorway.

      The normal suggestion has been that if you spend most of the time above approx 100 km/h on motorways then the taller 5th is good. If you do a lot of city driving then you are not going to be spending enough time in 5th for it to be worthwhile. If you do a lot of secondary roads at 80 - 90 km/h and particularly if they are hilly, the tall gear probably isn't going to be worthwhile and it will be more annoying because of forcing more downshifts.

      There is indeed a large drop in revs from 4th to 5th. Basically, you do all your accelerating in 1-4 and then shift to 5th when cruising speed is reached. It's OK in 5th at motorway speed, but below that, not only is the gearing taller but the engine is too low in the revs to be in its powerband.

      Overall, I like it. Just don't expect the economics to work out for a long, long time.

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      02-22-2012 11:55 PM #28
      Quote Originally Posted by stolpsGTI View Post
      Don't be cheap. Cheap engineers give us all a bad name because cheap never works for very long.
      Since I have a dog in this fight, I will say: Wrong! Unless you are doing work in a rare instance where cost is secondary, it is the duty of an engineer to make a design that works as intended with a minimal amount of cost for materials and labor. This mindset can but does not always overlap into an engineer's life away from work.

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      02-23-2012 08:47 AM #29
      Great input gofaster! Unfortunatly for my job, I do. A ton of city driving. And even worse, most of my family lives in ski country (lots of hills and backroads driving). Compounded by a 300,000km break-even point, it looks like I'll stick with stock gearing. I've been researching the hybrid t-stat, and that's looking promising.

      Tinker toy- spot on buddy!

    5. Member stolpsGTI's Avatar
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      02-23-2012 11:48 AM #30
      GoFaster brings the win.

      Quote Originally Posted by Tinker Toy View Post
      Since I have a dog in this fight, I will say: Wrong!
      Actually, you don't have a 'dog in this fight' - which isn't a fight at all, just some mild ribbing. But thanks for jumping into the middle of the conversation and missing the context.
      Few people understand the psychology of dealing with a highway traffic cop. A normal speeder will panic and immediately pull over to the side. This is wrong. It arouses contempt in the cop heart. Make the bastard chase you. He will follow.

    6. 02-23-2012 09:35 PM #31
      When did you put the egt gauge in?

      http://forums.vwvortex.com/showthrea...good-EGT-gauge

      I meant with my comment that you should't be asking what X upgrade will do unless you have the proper monitoring system in your car = EGT gauge...this is another reason why myself and others question your engineering degree. I will be honest, I have no clue what a "network engineering degree" is, but with your line of questions and lack of understanding it sounds to me like a network engineering degree is some sort of IT guy that only knows some theory and/or computer stuff. If so it kind of makes sense now if that is the case.

    7. Banned 85_305's Avatar
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      02-24-2012 08:29 AM #32
      Quote Originally Posted by theman53 View Post
      When did you put the egt gauge in?

      http://forums.vwvortex.com/showthrea...good-EGT-gauge

      I meant with my comment that you should't be asking what X upgrade will do unless you have the proper monitoring system in your car = EGT gauge...this is another reason why myself and others question your engineering degree. I will be honest, I have no clue what a "network engineering degree" is, but with your line of questions and lack of understanding it sounds to me like a network engineering degree is some sort of IT guy that only knows some theory and/or computer stuff. If so it kind of makes sense now if that is the case.
      I will reiterate my question; why is it critical that I have an egt gauge in order to put a taller 5th gear in? And why is it YOUR call to allow/disallow me knowledge and answers to a question? I put the pyro in whenever the hell I wanted to. Several weeks ago, Your Honor.

    8. 02-24-2012 08:46 AM #33
      Quote Originally Posted by 85_305 View Post
      I will reiterate my question; why is it critical that I have an egt gauge in order to put a taller 5th gear in? And why is it YOUR call to allow/disallow me knowledge and answers to a question? I put the pyro in whenever the hell I wanted to. Several weeks ago, Your Honor.
      I did answer your question...."I meant with my comment that you should't be asking what X upgrade will do unless you have the proper monitoring system in your car = EGT gauge"

      You asked the EGT question earlier, so if you haven't done that which is a detrimental part of your car diagnostics, then you shouldn't be doing a 5th swap in that car. Unless you want a car with a .685:1 5th that doesn't move because the moron engineer who installed it didn't listen to the answers to a question he asked 2 months ago, and melted the car down. I was also asking to when did you put the EGT in as if you didn't follow advice before, what makes me think you will now with this question. You want to know how to make your car better, but whenever I give advice that will help your car live, you respond with "why is it your call to allow/disallow..." If you don't want opinions from people that actually do work on these cars, then do a search of things for yourself and get out a wrench and do the work.

      Video of the working egt or IT DIDN'T HAPPEN
      Last edited by theman53; 02-24-2012 at 08:48 AM.

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      02-24-2012 11:45 AM #34
      Lulz I give a **** if you want proof of my egt working. I'll still go to sleep tonight. But if your idea of giving out advicr is asking whether or not your vehicle is being monitored for pyro in order to inst all a differe gear in the transmission you should reconsider your hobby and turn wrenches elsewhere.

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      02-24-2012 12:23 PM #35
      Quote Originally Posted by 85_305 View Post
      Lulz I give a **** if you want proof of my egt working. I'll still go to sleep tonight. But if your idea of giving out advicr is asking whether or not your vehicle is being monitored for pyro in order to inst all a differe gear in the transmission you should reconsider your hobby and turn wrenches elsewhere.
      you talk/act like an idiot tho.. and you have an engineering degree!

      if WE knew that YOU killed your car because you didnt monitor it, WE wouldnt be able to sleep tonight, knowing that another retard burned down a TDI for no good reason..

      the dumbest people i know, have engineering degrees.. lots of book smarts, but absolutely no common sense!

      and i still dont believe 153whp was made with a VNT15 hotside..
      Last edited by Glegor; 02-24-2012 at 12:26 PM.

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      02-24-2012 12:44 PM #36
      Lol if you don't believe that my vnt15-hotsided setup didn't make 153 hp, then you *certainly* won't believe me when I sai installing pp764's is now causing my clutch rated to 330ft-lbs to slip

      I still don't get how a taller 5th gear has anything to do with burning my motor up?

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      02-24-2012 01:06 PM #37
      Quote Originally Posted by 85_305 View Post
      Lol if you don't believe that my vnt15-hotsided setup didn't make 153 hp, then you *certainly* won't believe me when I sai installing pp764's is now causing my clutch rated to 330ft-lbs to slip

      I still don't get how a taller 5th gear has anything to do with burning my motor up?
      Any tdi over 110 HP should have a Pyro. Its common sense. Why even flirt with disaster. I don't think your an idiot or a liar. I just think everyone here wants to see you have success with your car and help you not burn it down.

      Sent from my DROID X2 using Tapatalk

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      02-24-2012 02:06 PM #38
      Quote Originally Posted by crozier1 View Post
      Any tdi over 110 HP should have a Pyro. Its common sense. Why even flirt with disaster. I don't think your an idiot or a liar. I just think everyone here wants to see you have success with your car and help you not burn it down.

      Sent from my DROID X2 using Tapatalk
      you hit the nail on the head dude.. we DO want him to succeed.. not burn his S#!T down..

      but, he always took everything offensively, and then we got tired of his nonsense..

      he is too stubborn to take advice.. idk how many times i had to tell him a PYRO was a REQUIREMENT on a diesel, before it actually sunk in..

      and he was sure he was over-fueled, but had no pyrometer to confirm/deny that.. when in reality, he didnt have enough fuel, and the car almost never smoked..

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      02-24-2012 02:15 PM #39
      Quote Originally Posted by crozier1 View Post
      Any tdi over 110 HP should have a Pyro. Its common sense. Why even flirt with disaster. I don't think your an idiot or a liar. I just think everyone here wants to see you have success with your car and help you not burn it down.

      Sent from my DROID X2 using Tapatalk
      Pyro is common sense on any diesel PERIOD as a safety net.. I understand that. And I am running pyro. Just didn't see how it was relevant to me installing a different 5th gear, but now I see where you guys were going with this and just checking up on me. So sorry I took it with offense.

      Quote Originally Posted by Glegor View Post

      and he was sure he was over-fueled, but had no pyrometer to confirm/deny that.. when in reality, he didnt have enough fuel, and the car almost never smoked..
      Shuttttt upppppp. Your spot-on, as always

    15. 02-26-2012 09:28 AM #40
      Quote Originally Posted by 85_305 View Post
      Lol if you don't believe that my vnt15-hotsided setup didn't make 153 hp, then you *certainly* won't believe me when I sai installing pp764's is now causing my clutch rated to 330ft-lbs to slip

      I still don't get how a taller 5th gear has anything to do with burning my motor up?
      The taller fifth won't burn your engine *motor is electric* up. My point to the posts I have been posting is this: IF YOU DON'T LISTEN TO WHAT WE HAVE SAID ABOUT PROPER ENGINE MONITORING THEN WHY WOULD I WASTE MY TYPING ON GIVING YOU INFO ABOUT A 5TH GEAR SWAP.

      Something as important as EGT guage should not fall on deaf ears, so if you didn't have that done I refuse to help you do other stuff while your car could be killing itself.

      Sorry to say this but you are either too stubborn to listen to us Or more likely too dumb to put this together as you still ask some dumb questions that have already been answered.

    16. Banned 85_305's Avatar
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      02-26-2012 07:06 PM #41
      en·gineNoun
      1. A machine with moving parts that converts power into motion.

      mo·tor
      Noun:A machine, esp. one powered by electricity or internal combustion, that supplies motive power for a vehicle or for some other device with moving parts.



      Looks like the same thing to me
      But thanks for looking out for me.

    17. 02-26-2012 11:21 PM #42
      You are ignored now. You sir a a retard.


      Edit: Sorry for those of you whom are retarded, I don't mean to offend you thinking you are down to this guys level.
      Last edited by theman53; 02-26-2012 at 11:31 PM.

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      02-27-2012 10:26 AM #43
      love this thread.. lmfao.

    19. Banned 85_305's Avatar
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      02-27-2012 10:34 AM #44
      Who's the retard, the one going on about needing an egt gauge and speaking of definitions that he's unsure of, or the one that's asking about installing a different gear and actually using definitions correctly?

      I get your point, and I've got a gauge. So chill out. Mon'.

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      02-27-2012 10:38 AM #45
      Get your car on a dyno and post up the slips. I wouldn't go by your '330ftlb' clutch slipping as a measurement of power, lol.

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      02-27-2012 12:17 PM #46
      Quote Originally Posted by Glegor View Post
      love this thread.. lmfao.
      Thanks for the entertainment! This is why I love the Vortex! Childish pissing contests! Too cheap for VCDS but wants to do a 5th gear swap?!?
      For VW TDI modification, parts, and service check out SCHNELL SNAIL TDI PERFORMANCE yes, we do gassers too!
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      02-27-2012 02:01 PM #47
      Lulz I love psychology; although at times, I hate it. Sorry, but I'm not posting dyno pics to appease *anybody* I realize that there are a lot of people who strongly dislike me, and there's just as many people who've dropped big moiney on big turbos and crazy (pointless) mods who are at similair power levels (often times, even less..), so that makes me a bit of a target. Alas, its a shame that some people are better at building cars than others. Everybody on tdiclub thinks inside the same box, and its humorous watching people get their undergarments into tightly woven piles when somebody who actually uses their brain and figures out more efficient ways of accomplishing things.

      And I had no idea a 5th gear was 400+$... I was thinking 100-150$ tops.

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      02-27-2012 02:12 PM #48
      Quote Originally Posted by 85_305 View Post
      Lulz I love psychology; although at times, I hate it. Sorry, but I'm not posting dyno pics to appease *anybody* I realize that there are a lot of people who strongly dislike me, and there's just as many people who've dropped big moiney on big turbos and crazy (pointless) mods who are at similair power levels (often times, even less..), so that makes me a bit of a target. Alas, its a shame that some people are better at building cars than others. Everybody on tdiclub thinks inside the same box, and its humorous watching people get their undergarments into tightly woven piles when somebody who actually uses their brain and figures out more efficient ways of accomplishing things.

      And I had no idea a 5th gear was 400+$... I was thinking 100-150$ tops.
      were not talking about 020 trannies here dude..

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      02-27-2012 02:43 PM #49
      Quote Originally Posted by 85_305 View Post
      Lulz I love psychology; although at times, I hate it. Sorry, but I'm not posting dyno pics to appease *anybody* I realize that there are a lot of people who strongly dislike me, and there's just as many people who've dropped big moiney on big turbos and crazy (pointless) mods who are at similair power levels (often times, even less..), so that makes me a bit of a target. Alas, its a shame that some people are better at building cars than others. Everybody on tdiclub thinks inside the same box, and its humorous watching people get their undergarments into tightly woven piles when somebody who actually uses their brain and figures out more efficient ways of accomplishing things.

      And I had no idea a 5th gear was 400+$... I was thinking 100-150$ tops.

      Anyone who has put in a lot of time, money, and parts into their car aren't afraid to post up a dyno slip though...
      Quote Originally Posted by TM87 View Post
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      02-27-2012 03:05 PM #50
      Quote Originally Posted by Glegor View Post
      were not talking about 020 trannies here dude..
      I'm not a tranny expert.. Although I kinda wish I HAD an 020 because they can get an 80% kit

      Quote Originally Posted by Rockerchick View Post
      Anyone who has put in a lot of time, money, and parts into their car aren't afraid to post up a dyno slip though...
      Well they shouldn't have banned me before I could post my sheet

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