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    View Poll Results: Should VW bring the Passat Alltrack to North America?

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    • I would strongly consider one

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    • Yes, they will do well

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    Thread: Should VW bring the Passat Alltrack to North America?

    1. Member MatchStick's Avatar
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      02-21-2012 08:59 PM #26
      Quote Originally Posted by sandiegan View Post
      strongly consider one is most chosen option??
      remember the Amarok threads?

    2. Member Captain Spongeworthy's Avatar
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      02-21-2012 09:10 PM #27
      I think the Passat Alltrack would do well if it were available in the right configuration. As a current Allroad owner, it is the perfect size vehicle, not too big not too small. The shortcoming of the Allroad is the fuel economy and lack of manual transmission.

      Now if the Passat Alltrack was available with allwheeldrive, manual 6spd and V6 TDI (not the turd TDI motor of current and previous models) I would consider buying one.....remember, it's a VW not an Audi or Porsche, don't try charging me that kind of a price....
      “Life is tough, but it's tougher when you're stupid.” John Wayne

    3. Member Sepp's Avatar
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      02-21-2012 09:13 PM #28
      Quote Originally Posted by Captain Spongeworthy View Post
      I think the Passat Alltrack would do well if it were available in the right configuration. As a current Allroad owner, it is the perfect size vehicle, not too big not too small. The shortcoming of the Allroad is the fuel economy and lack of manual transmission.

      Now if the Passat Alltrack was available with allwheeldrive, manual 6spd and V6 TDI (not the turd TDI motor of current and previous models) I would consider buying one.....remember, it's a VW not an Audi or Porsche, don't try charging me that kind of a price....

      very well said! I totally agree!
      If you have a 5 cylinder, you don't need a stereo.

    4. 02-21-2012 09:13 PM #29
      Quote Originally Posted by 2VWatatime View Post
      No offense, but ??? Imitate a brand w/fewer sales to justify new plant/expansion? Okaaaay
      In the US up until last year VW and Subaru had similar sales number in the US. The Outback is popular in snowy climates in the US and I am shocked VW would not offer something like this in the US to take sales away from Subaru. In 2011 the Subaru Outback sold over 100,000 cars in the US. VW would be stupid to not offer something like this.
      http://www.goodcarbadcar.net/2011/01...s-figures.html

    5. 02-21-2012 09:16 PM #30
      As someone who tried (really, really hard) to justify a Jetta Sportwagen....no.

      For the Passat money, I got a Chevy Equinox with a V6, towing capacity, AWD, a higher stance for more comfort getting in and out, and more versatility. It doesn't do a LOT more than the Passat does, but what it does do is enough to justify it. The interior isn't as nice, but it's not far off, and with the V6 the Equinox more than holds its own performance wise.

      For us, it was a matter of the SUV being a more family-friendly form factor. My wife has a bad back, and we have 2 dogs. We need the height that the SUV body provides.
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    6. 02-21-2012 09:18 PM #31
      Quote Originally Posted by Captain Spongeworthy View Post
      I think the Passat Alltrack would do well if it were available in the right configuration. As a current Allroad owner, it is the perfect size vehicle, not too big not too small. The shortcoming of the Allroad is the fuel economy and lack of manual transmission.

      Now if the Passat Alltrack was available with allwheeldrive, manual 6spd and V6 TDI (not the turd TDI motor of current and previous models) I would consider buying one.....remember, it's a VW not an Audi or Porsche, don't try charging me that kind of a price....
      The V6 Passat sedan is already a low 30 grand car. Add the cost of the diesel and AWD, plus a manual transmission that all of 5 people would choose, and I bet we're talking a $40,000 vehicle.

      Thats loaded 3 row Explorer money, and I think most families would rather have the SUV. I know I would.
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    7. Member zhenya00's Avatar
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      02-21-2012 09:24 PM #32
      Quote Originally Posted by GolfVIDriver View Post
      As someone who tried (really, really hard) to justify a Jetta Sportwagen....no.

      For the Passat money, I got a Chevy Equinox with a V6, towing capacity, AWD, a higher stance for more comfort getting in and out, and more versatility. It doesn't do a LOT more than the Passat does, but what it does do is enough to justify it. The interior isn't as nice, but it's not far off, and with the V6 the Equinox more than holds its own performance wise.

      For us, it was a matter of the SUV being a more family-friendly form factor. My wife has a bad back, and we have 2 dogs. We need the height that the SUV body provides.
      You are one of very few people who would cross-shop the Equinox with a Sportswagen. For most people it's either one or the other - the demographics are generally worlds apart. I live in a town with a huge number of wagon owners, and know personally probably 20+ of them, and I can't think of a single one of them that would consider an Equinox. I know I wouldn't after several rental experiences.

      That said, the Sportswagen is generally a bit too small for most people who might consider a wagon over a crossover or small suv. The Passat Alltrack would hopefully be large enough that the slight advantage you give to the Equinox would become even smaller.
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    8. Member Captain Spongeworthy's Avatar
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      02-21-2012 09:27 PM #33
      Quote Originally Posted by GolfVIDriver View Post
      The V6 Passat sedan is already a low 30 grand car. Add the cost of the diesel and AWD, plus a manual transmission that all of 5 people would choose, and I bet we're talking a $40,000 vehicle.

      Thats loaded 3 row Explorer money, and I think most families would rather have the SUV. I know I would.
      Well, they better start cutting the pay of those Mexican workers down there.....

      Kidding aside, bigger doesn't mean better, the Explorer is huge in comparison, too thristy and probably not as nice inside. in 2004 my Allroad sold new for $48k.

      I see Outbacks all over the place in my area, I kind of like them. The new bodystyle looks sharp. They sell for mid to high $30k range I would think where the Passat Alltrack should be....
      Last edited by Captain Spongeworthy; 02-21-2012 at 09:29 PM.
      “Life is tough, but it's tougher when you're stupid.” John Wayne

    9. 02-21-2012 09:30 PM #34
      Quote Originally Posted by Captain Spongeworthy View Post
      Well, they better start cutting the pay of those Mexican workers down there.....

      Kidding aside, bigger doesn't mean better, the Explorer is huge in comparison, too thristy and probably not as nice inside. in 2004 my Allroad sold new for $48k.

      I see Outbacks all over the place in my area, I kind of like them. The new bodystyle looks sharp. They sell for mid to high $30k range I would think where the Passat Alltrack should be....
      True, but keep in mind, these tend to be family cars. Famlies need room. And at that price point, there are a LOT of nice and very roomy SUVs out there that make the Passat seem a little ridiculous.

      Just my opinion from someone who went through this excercise a year ago.
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    10. 02-21-2012 09:31 PM #35
      Quote Originally Posted by 50fridge View Post
      In the US up until last year VW and Subaru had similar sales number in the US. The Outback is popular in snowy climates in the US and I am shocked VW would not offer something like this in the US to take sales away from Subaru. In 2011 the Subaru Outback sold over 100,000 cars in the US. VW would be stupid to not offer something like this.
      http://www.goodcarbadcar.net/2011/01...s-figures.html
      VW already has one line outselling the Outback, and will most likely see another outsell the Impreza. Spending the $ to go head to head in a small market isn't the way to meet the volumes VW is seeking...

    11. Member zhenya00's Avatar
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      02-21-2012 09:34 PM #36
      Quote Originally Posted by GolfVIDriver View Post
      True, but keep in mind, these tend to be family cars. Famlies need room. And at that price point, there are a LOT of nice and very roomy SUVs out there that make the Passat seem a little ridiculous.

      Just my opinion from someone who went through this excercise a year ago.
      Your experience is why the wagon has all but disappeared from the US market. There is, however, a small contingent of buyers who will buy a wagon over an SUV despite the size limitations. At this point, those buyers have very few choices available. The car would sell, it's just a matter of whether the volumes are worth it to VW.
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      02-21-2012 09:35 PM #37
      The Outback is a HUGE player in the USA, VW needs to be in that niche. Build it in TN To make it price competitive.

    13. Member Captain Spongeworthy's Avatar
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      02-21-2012 09:38 PM #38
      Quote Originally Posted by gnillort View Post
      The Outback is a HUGE player in the USA, VW needs to be in that niche. Build it in TN To make it price competitive.
      exactly
      “Life is tough, but it's tougher when you're stupid.” John Wayne

    14. 02-21-2012 09:39 PM #39
      Quote Originally Posted by zhenya00 View Post
      You are one of very few people who would cross-shop the Equinox with a Sportswagen. For most people it's either one or the other - the demographics are generally worlds apart. I live in a town with a huge number of wagon owners, and know personally probably 20+ of them, and I can't think of a single one of them that would consider an Equinox. I know I wouldn't after several rental experiences.

      That said, the Sportswagen is generally a bit too small for most people who might consider a wagon over a crossover or small suv. The Passat Alltrack would hopefully be large enough that the slight advantage you give to the Equinox would become even smaller.

      Ithaca is...well, a unique demographic...wouldn't you agree?

      We wanted a family/town car. Something we could take people out to dinner in, throw the dogs in the back and go on long trips, and have something that has cargo capacity. Nice-to-haves were towing capacity and AWD.

      You need to drive a new Equinox, at the dealer. I have personally "sold" three of them to friends after a ride in ours. When we went to go get ours last year, we had such a hard time finding the right one we had to settle for the last correct spec in the area, and it was over 60 miles away. They sell fast. We are so tickled with the Equinox we're planning on leasing another if nothing else interesting comes out.

      The JSW is too small. We learned that the hard way when we tried to get a baby seat into the back and realized the front seat would need to come forward too much to make the car practical. Like i said, we WANTED the car to work...and I was willing to give up AWD on top of it.

      If we could have given up leather, I could have made the JSW and Equinox V6 AWD more or less the same price. After negotiating, the JSW and our Equinox were only $2,000 apart in sale price, and at that point it was a no brainer.
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    15. 02-21-2012 09:41 PM #40
      Quote Originally Posted by zhenya00 View Post
      Your experience is why the wagon has all but disappeared from the US market. There is, however, a small contingent of buyers who will buy a wagon over an SUV despite the size limitations. At this point, those buyers have very few choices available. The car would sell, it's just a matter of whether the volumes are worth it to VW.
      Hmmm. Hard to say. I agree there IS a wagon segment in this market. But I don't think its as big as some of you think it is, and the costs to bring something like the Passat over don't really make a good business case.

      THere are very few choices in the market due to the fact that there are very few (albiet passionate) buyers in the market.

      Once we removed passion from the equation, the SUV made a really strong case for itself. For our needs, it was absolutely the right choice.
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    16. Member zhenya00's Avatar
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      02-21-2012 09:43 PM #41
      Indeed it is.

      But there are a handful of pockets like it, especially in the NE, to some extent in the Rockies and the West coast - places where Outbacks and XC70's sell.

      I have driven the Equinox as a rental a couple of times and I'm sorry I can't share your enthusiasm. Oh well.

      My co-worker recently purchased a TDI/DSG Sportswagen (replacing an older V70). He has two kids and the car is big enough for his car seats (not infant seats), but small enough that they generally take his wife's XC70 on trips. I'm hoping the Alltrack could bridge that gap.
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    17. 02-21-2012 09:52 PM #42
      Quote Originally Posted by zhenya00 View Post
      Indeed it is.

      But there are a handful of pockets like it, especially in the NE, to some extent in the Rockies and the West coast - places where Outbacks and XC70's sell.

      I have driven the Equinox as a rental a couple of times and I'm sorry I can't share your enthusiasm. Oh well.

      My co-worker recently purchased a TDI/DSG Sportswagen (replacing an older V70). He has two kids and the car is big enough for his car seats (not infant seats), but small enough that they generally take his wife's XC70 on trips. I'm hoping the Alltrack could bridge that gap.
      We agree to disagree then. The Equinox has movable rear seats that has already paid for themselves a couple of times. I just love the package the Equinox has, and it occupies a place in the market that no other smaller SUV occupies.

      The other problem is the Alltrack is going to be too much money. $30,000 is still a lot of money to most people buying family cars. A diesel Alltrack will most likely come in at $40,000. A Toureg comes in at $43,000. Frankly, I would rather see VW come out with a 'tweener SUV between the Touareg and the Tiguan.
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    18. 02-21-2012 09:58 PM #43
      Quote Originally Posted by gnillort View Post
      The Outback is a HUGE player in the USA, VW needs to be in that niche. Build it in TN To make it price competitive.
      Yeah, that's a huge niche...

      Quote Originally Posted by GolfVIDriver View Post

      The other problem is the Alltrack is going to be too much money. $30,000 is still a lot of money to most people buying family cars. A diesel Alltrack will most likely come in at $40,000.
      You're on TCL, where any "diesel = wowgottahaveit" , plus "air con is sooo overrated and if VW were serious about selling they'd delete that for $10,000 savings", and "who needs power windows in a VW if I can just get the biggest diesel they offer in a stripped model + 5 speed". Oh, and TCL is also the land o'make belive in which Subaru = major US seller...
      Last edited by 2VWatatime; 02-21-2012 at 10:03 PM.

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      02-21-2012 09:58 PM #44
      Wagons will sell, except for the fact that the car companies don't want to market them, and instead want to market high profit margin items like these silly cross overs which are just blown up wagons.

      If anyone is in doubt the Outback is nothing more than a slightly raised
      Legacy Wagon.

    20. Member zhenya00's Avatar
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      02-21-2012 10:01 PM #45
      Quote Originally Posted by GolfVIDriver View Post
      The other problem is the Alltrack is going to be too much money. $30,000 is still a lot of money to most people buying family cars. A diesel Alltrack will most likely come in at $40,000. A Toureg comes in at $43,000. Frankly, I would rather see VW come out with a 'tweener SUV between the Touareg and the Tiguan.
      I think if it went after the higher-end Outback and XC70 owners, it would do ok. As mentioned, those cars sell for mid-30's, and I would think VW should be able to hit the $35-37k price point given MSRP on the current diesel Sportswagen or Passat. Plenty of crossovers and cute-utes sell at 40k, so the market is there.
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      02-21-2012 10:50 PM #46
      Quote Originally Posted by zhenya00 View Post
      Plenty of crossovers and cute-utes sell at 40k, so the market is there.
      There are still plenty of people who didn't want to be bus drivers as kids.
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    22. 02-21-2012 11:00 PM #47
      I think it would be awesome but it won't sell well.

      VW high end stuff never sells well because it crosses the fine line of price compared to the Audi lineup.

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      02-21-2012 11:02 PM #48
      This:

      Quote Originally Posted by zhenya00 View Post
      Your experience is why the wagon has all but disappeared from the US market. There is, however, a small contingent of buyers who will buy a wagon over an SUV despite the size limitations. At this point, those buyers have very few choices available. The car would sell, it's just a matter of whether the volumes are worth it to VW.
      And this:

      Quote Originally Posted by GolfVIDriver View Post
      The other problem is the Alltrack is going to be too much money. $30,000 is still a lot of money to most people buying family cars. A diesel Alltrack will most likely come in at $40,000. A Toureg comes in at $43,000. Frankly, I would rather see VW come out with a 'tweener SUV between the Touareg and the Tiguan.
      Personally I would rather see an A6 Avant TDI. With enough torque to be plenty quick enough compared to the 3.0T, it would be a great alternative at a sustainable pricepoint once you add AWD and all the goodies. Unfortunately a combination of lower prices in North America, low demand and ZOMG SUV IS SAFE will prevent these configurations from arriving here. Besides, VWAG would rather have you buy a Q7 TDI, something with a nice profit margin built in

      Not getting these niche vehicles is part of the reason VWAG is making inroads right now. People want cheap VWs, luxurious Audis and ZOMG SUVs instead. If that allows great cars like the TTRS, RS5, Golf R and so on, I am not opposed. It would be nice to have a diesel, AWD wagon though
      Previous in Chronological Order: 2012 VW Golf TDI Highline 6MT | 2003 VW Jetta 1.8T GLS 5MT | 2007 VW Rabbit 2.5 5MT | 1997 Honda CRV 4AT

    24. 02-22-2012 12:01 AM #49
      Quote Originally Posted by 50fridge View Post
      In the US up until last year VW and Subaru had similar sales number in the US. The Outback is popular in snowy climates in the US and I am shocked VW would not offer something like this in the US to take sales away from Subaru. In 2011 the Subaru Outback sold over 100,000 cars in the US. VW would be stupid to not offer something like this.
      http://www.goodcarbadcar.net/2011/01...s-figures.html
      Except VW likely won't be able to offer it along the same pricing range as the Outback while sustaining some type of a profit. And, Subaru has some of the most loyal owners out there; VW, not so much.

    25. 02-22-2012 12:10 AM #50
      They would sell like 10 of these...I voted keep it in Europe.

      This wagon is not comparable to an SUV/CUV in the American market, American's wouldn't know what to make of a Passat wagon w/ cladding that costs 35k+...

      A 'plain' Passat wagon with reasonable pricing, yes, but this is definitely a no.
      Last edited by mkultra_; 02-22-2012 at 12:13 AM.

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