I'm pro-choice and pro-death penalty.
To me, the only way that we can really reduce abortions in this country is for a cultural shift to happen. When there is enough pre and post natal support, more education about abortion and adoption is seen as an option, then the number of abortions will drop. The whole "let's make it illegal" thing is only creating more polarity and closing people off from the pro-life message.
I hate abortion. I think it's pretty awful. But I truly don't know that it's my business getting that intimately involved in someone's uterus.
There are plenty of internally logically coherent reasons to be for or against abortion privileges, and thinkers and writers far more eloquent than us have outlined them in great detail. I don't see a lot that's productive about hashing it out.
Personally, I'm both pro-life and pro-choice. There are enough good reasons for a woman to elect to have an abortion that I'm perfectly comfortable leaving that choice in the hands of women and their healthcare professionals; there are enough bad reasons for a woman to elect to have an abortion that I believe strongly that we should be promoting education, access to contraception, adoption, and other countermeasures as energetically as we do our personal point of view on whether a fetus is a person and so forth. If more women insisted on contraception and responsible sexual behavior, if they received honest, productive sex education, and if men were full partners in that effort as well as in the bedroom, abortion would be the last-ditch medical procedure it should be. If you're really concerned about abortion, help figure out how to get men to stop being such selfish bastards and put a condom on it.
What I really think is worth discussion is the fact that there's a small but vocal minority in this country who seem to take shots at both contraception AND abortion, and seem determined not to protect and legally enshrine fetuses or women or choice or life, but rather their own interpretation of sexual morality and conduct. This extends to the harassment of not just abortion providers, but also providers of contraception, HPV vaccines, and sex education, as well as anybody disinclined to traditional heteronormative sex and romantic relationships for the sole purpose of procreation.
Last edited by Turbio!; 02-22-2012 at 09:15 AM.
Seriously, we can't people to teach their children how to manage money, balance a checkbook, or change the oil in their car, how do we expect them to have the knowledge and understanding to teach their kids how scientifically a baby is made?
The best way to prevent abortion (which all rational people should wish to PREVENT), is to prevent unwanted pregnancies.
The best way to prevent unwanted pregnancies is to stop pretending that people don't and shouldn't have sex outside of marriage (which they have been doing for eons), and start actually educating people about the ramifications of their actions and the cheap and simple steps to prevent unwanted consequences.
And as a follow on: if you actually care about preventing unwanted pregnancies and abortions, if you really are pro-life rather than pro-sexual morality, these ****ers are speaking your language but working toward goals that will make abortions both more likely AND more dangerous for both women and fetuses. One of them is currently a front-runner for the Republican nomination. If you really want to see abortions reduced the way abortions actually get reduced - which is through women getting educated and taking control of their reproductive health - they're as much your enemies as the hardcore pro-choicers, if not more.
Last edited by Turbio!; 02-22-2012 at 09:35 AM.
Last edited by Chilledman; 02-22-2012 at 09:36 AM.
I've given up the internet until abortion is illegal. What have you done to stop this mass murder?
Turbio - I don't nessecarily agree 100%, but your position is certainly well thought
out & well reasoned.
In other words, it has no place in this thread.
& Barry, I'm curious as to why you're waiting for JIMP.
I can guarantee he'll not only think outlawing vasectomies is a joke,
he'll get a kick out of people thinking he wouldn't.
We are JIMP
I'm pro-choice because I believe a woman is more than a birth canal and I'm pro-death-penalty because I believe it serves society's best interest to execute the perpetrators of heinous crimes.
Right, I'm the idiot.
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By definition fetus is a virus till its born.
2 a : the causative agent of an infectious disease b : any of a large group of submicroscopic infective agents that are regarded either as extremely simple microorganisms or as extremely complex molecules, that typically contain a protein coat surrounding an RNA or DNA core of genetic material but no semipermeable membrane, that are capable of growth and multiplication only in living cells, and that cause various important diseases in humans, lower animals, or plants; also : filterable virus c : a disease or illness caused by a virus
3 : something that poisons the mind or soul