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    Thread: Pro life taken to a new extreme

    1. Geriatric Member Turbio!'s Avatar
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      02-22-2012 09:05 AM #51
      There are plenty of internally logically coherent reasons to be for or against abortion privileges, and thinkers and writers far more eloquent than us have outlined them in great detail. I don't see a lot that's productive about hashing it out.

      Personally, I'm both pro-life and pro-choice. There are enough good reasons for a woman to elect to have an abortion that I'm perfectly comfortable leaving that choice in the hands of women and their healthcare professionals; there are enough bad reasons for a woman to elect to have an abortion that I believe strongly that we should be promoting education, access to contraception, adoption, and other countermeasures as energetically as we do our personal point of view on whether a fetus is a person and so forth. If more women insisted on contraception and responsible sexual behavior, if they received honest, productive sex education, and if men were full partners in that effort as well as in the bedroom, abortion would be the last-ditch medical procedure it should be. If you're really concerned about abortion, help figure out how to get men to stop being such selfish bastards and put a condom on it.

      What I really think is worth discussion is the fact that there's a small but vocal minority in this country who seem to take shots at both contraception AND abortion, and seem determined not to protect and legally enshrine fetuses or women or choice or life, but rather their own interpretation of sexual morality and conduct. This extends to the harassment of not just abortion providers, but also providers of contraception, HPV vaccines, and sex education, as well as anybody disinclined to traditional heteronormative sex and romantic relationships for the sole purpose of procreation.
      Last edited by Turbio!; 02-22-2012 at 09:15 AM.
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    2. Moderator silverspeedbuggy's Avatar
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      02-22-2012 09:07 AM #52
      Quote Originally Posted by 22AudiQ View Post
      To me, the only way that we can really reduce abortions in this country is for a cultural shift to happen. When there is enough pre and post natal support, more education about abortion and adoption is seen as an option, then the number of abortions will drop. The whole "let's make it illegal" thing is only creating more polarity and closing people off from the pro-life message.

      I hate abortion. I think it's pretty awful. But I truly don't know that it's my business getting that intimately involved in someone's uterus.
      You forgot one thing: real, honest, accurate sex education. In schools. By a licensed teacher. *GASP!*

      Seriously, we can't people to teach their children how to manage money, balance a checkbook, or change the oil in their car, how do we expect them to have the knowledge and understanding to teach their kids how scientifically a baby is made?

    3. Member Tornado2dr's Avatar
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      02-22-2012 09:10 AM #53
      Quote Originally Posted by Turbio! View Post
      What I really think is worth discussion is the fact that there's a small but vocal minority in this country who seem to take shots at both contraception AND abortion, and seem determined not to protect and legally enshrine fetuses or women or choice or life, but rather their own interpretation of sexual morality and conduct.
      This.

      The best way to prevent abortion (which all rational people should wish to PREVENT), is to prevent unwanted pregnancies.

      The best way to prevent unwanted pregnancies is to stop pretending that people don't and shouldn't have sex outside of marriage (which they have been doing for eons), and start actually educating people about the ramifications of their actions and the cheap and simple steps to prevent unwanted consequences.

    4. Member Mike!'s Avatar
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      02-22-2012 09:10 AM #54
      Quote Originally Posted by Turbio! View Post
      There are plenty of internally logically coherent reasons to be for or against abortion privileges, and thinkers and writers far more eloquent than us have outlined them in great detail. I don't see a lot that's productive about hashing it out.

      Personally, I'm both pro-life and pro-choice. There are enough good reasons for a woman to elect to have an abortion that I'm perfectly comfortable leaving that choice in the hands of women and their healthcare professionals; there are enough bad reasons for a woman to elect to have an abortion that I believe strongly that we should be promoting education, access to contraception, adoption, and other countermeasures as energetically as we do our personal point of view on whether a fetus is a person and so forth. If more women - and their partners - insisted on contraception and responsible sexual behavior, abortion would be the last-ditch medical procedure it should be.

      What I really think is worth discussion is the fact that there's a small but vocal minority in this country who seem to take shots at both contraception AND abortion, and seem determined not to protect and legally enshrine fetuses or women or choice or life, but rather their own interpretation of sexual morality and conduct. This extends to the legal harassment of not just abortion providers, but also providers of contraception, HPV vaccines, and sex education, as well as anybody disinclined to traditional heteronormative sex for the sole purpose of procreation.

    5. Geriatric Member Turbio!'s Avatar
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      02-22-2012 09:17 AM #55
      And as a follow on: if you actually care about preventing unwanted pregnancies and abortions, if you really are pro-life rather than pro-sexual morality, these ****ers are speaking your language but working toward goals that will make abortions both more likely AND more dangerous for both women and fetuses. One of them is currently a front-runner for the Republican nomination. If you really want to see abortions reduced the way abortions actually get reduced - which is through women getting educated and taking control of their reproductive health - they're as much your enemies as the hardcore pro-choicers, if not more.
      Last edited by Turbio!; 02-22-2012 at 09:35 AM.
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      02-22-2012 09:17 AM #56
      I thought the "right" wanted the government out of our lives. This seems like more big government to me.

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      02-22-2012 09:30 AM #57
      A question for those who are against abortion:

      What do you think of "the morning after pill"? Do you consider it an abortion?

    8. Banned Chilledman's Avatar
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      02-22-2012 09:32 AM #58
      I am personally calling for a public beheadings of more public officials who waste there time with stupid crap!


      Off with there heads !!

      - I can wish !

    9. Banned Chilledman's Avatar
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      02-22-2012 09:34 AM #59
      Quote Originally Posted by OSD#15 View Post
      A question for those who are against abortion:

      What do you think of "the morning after pill"? Do you consider it an abortion?
      If its not breathing air it's not alive !


      - this includes anything in the water also since they do tech breath oxygen removed from the water .
      - anything else is consider a parasite , virus or zombie and should be delt with !
      - beheading is the preferred way !
      Last edited by Chilledman; 02-22-2012 at 09:36 AM.

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      02-22-2012 09:36 AM #60
      I've given up the internet until abortion is illegal. What have you done to stop this mass murder?

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      02-22-2012 09:36 AM #61
      Quote Originally Posted by EGSEDAN View Post
      I thought the "right" wanted the government out of our lives. This seems like more big government to me.
      That assumes that everyone on the right is on board with this idiotic legislation.

      Turbio - I don't nessecarily agree 100%, but your position is certainly well thought
      out & well reasoned.

      In other words, it has no place in this thread.

      & Barry, I'm curious as to why you're waiting for JIMP.
      I can guarantee he'll not only think outlawing vasectomies is a joke,
      he'll get a kick out of people thinking he wouldn't.
      Quote Originally Posted by GruuvenNorth View Post
      ...and that's how the butthurt get their whiney ways.

    12. Geriatric Member ByronLLN's Avatar
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      02-22-2012 09:37 AM #62
      Quote Originally Posted by Fritz27 View Post
      I will say that it does amuse me that pro-choice people are cool with killing unborn babies, but someone that kills living, breathing humans and faces death row, after receiving full due process rights, should not be killed.

      Full disclosure:

      I'm pro-choice and pro-death penalty.
      I am as well, but honestly, I think running the two together to make some sort of argument about reverence for life is an over-simplification of both positions.

      I'm pro-choice because I believe a woman is more than a birth canal and I'm pro-death-penalty because I believe it serves society's best interest to execute the perpetrators of heinous crimes.
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    13. Banned Chilledman's Avatar
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      02-22-2012 09:38 AM #63
      Quote Originally Posted by Flavo Cadillac View Post
      I've given up the internet until abortion is illegal. What have you done to stop this mass murder?
      Your an idiot !
      It's not breathing it's not alive !
      Also abortion should be legal up to the age of 18

    14. Member Flavo Cadillac's Avatar
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      02-22-2012 09:46 AM #64
      Right, I'm the idiot.

    15. Member atomicalex's Avatar
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      02-22-2012 09:51 AM #65
      Quote Originally Posted by Tornado2dr View Post
      The best way to prevent abortion (which all rational people should wish to PREVENT), is to prevent unwanted pregnancies.
      And until the pro-conception nuts understand this, women will be subject to the whims of the crazies.
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    16. Banned Chilledman's Avatar
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      02-22-2012 09:53 AM #66
      Quote Originally Posted by Flavo Cadillac View Post
      Right, I'm the idiot.
      That's one thing we will all agree on.
      By definition fetus is a virus till its born.

      2 a : the causative agent of an infectious disease b : any of a large group of submicroscopic infective agents that are regarded either as extremely simple microorganisms or as extremely complex molecules, that typically contain a protein coat surrounding an RNA or DNA core of genetic material but no semipermeable membrane, that are capable of growth and multiplication only in living cells, and that cause various important diseases in humans, lower animals, or plants; also : filterable virus c : a disease or illness caused by a virus
      3 : something that poisons the mind or soul

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      02-22-2012 09:53 AM #67
      Quote Originally Posted by atomicalex View Post
      And until the pro-conception nuts understand this, women will be subject to the whims of the crazies.
      You do realize that women are the gate keepers right?




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      02-22-2012 09:56 AM #68
      Quote Originally Posted by barry2952 View Post
      My wife suggested a digital exam while on a treadmill for a stress test to get a prescription for Viagra. We wouldn't want anybody having a heart attack during sex, would we? Actually, I can't think of a better way to check out.
      Hope you meant manual and not digital

      Expose your cracks and love will fill them.

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      02-22-2012 10:00 AM #69
      The ironic part of the bill is that it's put forth by our state Democrats as a joke to block the current 26 weeks allowed for an abortion.

      The vasectomy bill is NOT A REAL BILL. It's to show how dumb our state "conservatives" are.

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      02-22-2012 10:01 AM #70
      Quote Originally Posted by 22AudiQ View Post
      I hate abortion. I think it's pretty awful. But I truly don't know that it's my business getting that intimately involved in someone's uterus.
      This is exactly how I feel. Abortion is not an option for me. But I don't think it's my right to take away that option for someone else.

    21. Member Surf Green's Avatar
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      02-22-2012 10:02 AM #71
      Quote Originally Posted by Air-over-water View Post
      Until they take a breath, they are not living.
      They are just a PARASITE, and we kill parasites.
      What if someone kicks your preggo wife/gf in the babybump?
      I keep up with traffic with only 90 hp. What's your superpower?
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      02-22-2012 10:06 AM #72
      Quote Originally Posted by MAC View Post
      Hope you meant manual and not digital

      It's called a digital exam, as in a finger being a digit.
      Garmin Is My Pilot.

      I am confident you are wrong, but instead of illustrating why, I will just make disparaging remarks about your reading comprehension.
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      02-22-2012 10:07 AM #73
      Quote Originally Posted by Chris Stack View Post
      This is exactly how I feel. Abortion is not an option for me. But I don't think it's my right to take away that option for someone else.
      Stop being reasonable, it scares the religious nuts.
      Expose your cracks and love will fill them.

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      02-22-2012 10:07 AM #74
      Quote Originally Posted by VdubChaos View Post
      You do realize that women are the gate keepers right?



      There is a large chasm between saying that women are the ones who have to say "yes", and giving women the education and understanding of the FACTS so that they can make the proper decisions on their terms about saying "yes".

      Educating women improves life for everyone in society.

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      02-22-2012 10:09 AM #75
      Quote Originally Posted by OSD#15 View Post
      A question for those who are against abortion:

      What do you think of "the morning after pill"? Do you consider it an abortion?
      It's important to note that for all the raving against "the morning after pill," it's basically a strong dose of 'birth control pill' hormones and completely distinct from an 'abortion pill'. It's only effective in a very narrow time window before implantation (ergo pregnancy) occurs.

      I don't like abortions. I'm also not in favor of an outright ban. I believe women should be able to make an informed decision. But the 'morning after pill' is no more abortion than masturbating into a Kleenex.

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