Username or Email Address
Do you already have an account?
Forgot your password?
  • Log in or Sign up

    VWVortex


    The Car Lounge
    Page 3 of 18 FirstFirst 123456713 ... LastLast
    Results 51 to 75 of 437

    Thread: Tesla's Major Design Flaw May Cost You $40,000

    1. Member rbloedow's Avatar
      Join Date
      Aug 14th, 2003
      Location
      Warner Robins, GA
      Posts
      5,498
      Vehicles
      2010 Honda Element SC, 2015 Audi A6 2.0 Premium Plus
      02-22-2012 03:08 PM #51
      Quote Originally Posted by Trict GTi View Post
      WoW i don't know if any of you read in depth but it says even while driving if it gets to zero battery life it will lock eveything up on you meaning if your stuck on I95 or what ever extremly dangerous Cali highway your on you can't push it or coast it to the side of the road.
      If i'm paying 100K plus for a damn car there should be warnings to let you know how much further you have until you are at 0% even 18k VW's have that... And even after 7 years when the batteries die from normal wear and tear Tesla is only going to credit you 12k on a 40k battery

      i thought the government implemented warranty to cover sh*t like that? and with the more inexpensive model that starts at 50k that uses the same battery pack means that the car is only worth 10k what a rip off. so for the some what above averge joe that pick up the cheaper tesla motor and zeros out his battery probably will have to sell his car for parts only and pray he can make back 10k of a 50k+ car.... where is the logic in that?
      OMG - please comprehend what you are reading before going off in such an ignorant rant. You guys need to realize that the car will prevent you from driving well before the battery is depleted. The dash will indicate no charge, but in reality it still has some in reserve. This will still allow you to put the car in tow mode, without the wheels locking up.

      It is only when you let it sit after this for extended periods of time and deplete do you run into the problem. Your towing scenario would not even apply unless you pulled over and then let the car sit for a few days before towing it.

    2. Member AHFlynn's Avatar
      Join Date
      Apr 6th, 2008
      Location
      UConn Country
      Posts
      3,679
      02-22-2012 03:12 PM #52
      Quote Originally Posted by fixmy59bug View Post
      It would have probably prevented the problem by not making a number of sales....

      If someone were to tell me that a repair bill of 40% of the cars 6 figure purchase price is a likelyhood just by allowing the car to sit without a charger hooked up, I certainly would not buy it.
      yeah thats true, thats the trade off they went with and it worked in the short term lol.

      i personally wouldnt mind, especially now that im aware of the time frame that battery depletion occurs in i would make sure not to leave the car uncharged for over a week. which isnt something that i would even see as possibly being an issue more than once a year.

      they should really engineer a better fix into this though, i mean obv it wont be possible to keep a lithium ion battery depleted to 4% alive for 6 months but a more practical way of dealing with it, and number 1 is improving consumer awareness.
      Quote Originally Posted by Cousin Eddie View Post
      Nah, understeering into a tree in a Honda like a teenage girl ruins your street cred. I'd leave the door to show how hard you are.

    3. Member Trict GTi's Avatar
      Join Date
      Oct 24th, 2005
      Location
      Somewhere
      Posts
      2,730
      Vehicles
      98 AUDI A4 1.8TQM
      02-22-2012 03:12 PM #53
      A Tesla Roadster that is simply parked without being plugged in will eventually become a "brick". The parasitic load from the car's always-on subsystems continually drains the battery and if the battery's charge is ever totally depleted, it is essentially destroyed. Complete discharge can happen even when the car is plugged in if it isn't receiving sufficient current to charge, which can be caused by something as simple as using an extension cord. After battery death, the car is completely inoperable. At least in the case of the Tesla Roadster, it's not even possible to enable tow mode, meaning the wheels will not turn and the vehicle cannot be pushed nor transported to a repair facility by traditional means.



      The 340th Tesla Roadster produced went to a customer in Santa Barbara, California. In 2011, he took his Roadster out for a drive and then parked it in a temporary garage while his home was being renovated. Lacking a built-in Tesla charger or a convenient power outlet, he left the car unplugged. Six weeks later his car was dead. It took four men two hours to drag the 2,700-pound Roadster onto a flatbed truck so that it could be shipped to Tesla's Los Angeles area service center, all at the owner's expense. A service manager then informed him that "it's a brick" and that the battery would cost approximately $40,000 to replace. He was further told that this was a special "friends and family" price, strongly implying that Tesla generally charges more.
      “A question that sometimes drives me hazy: am I or are the others crazy?”

    4. Member rbloedow's Avatar
      Join Date
      Aug 14th, 2003
      Location
      Warner Robins, GA
      Posts
      5,498
      Vehicles
      2010 Honda Element SC, 2015 Audi A6 2.0 Premium Plus
      02-22-2012 03:14 PM #54
      Quote Originally Posted by ValveCoverGasket View Post
      its my understanding now after talking to said coworker that the batteries themselves are unlikely to have been damaged after one full depletion.
      The NiMH batteries in a regular Prius - no. It would take a few discharges to do any damage. The batteries in a Plug-in Prius or Volt - yes, because they're lithium-ion. Full discharging is harmful to every kind of rechareable battery - the extent of the damage all depends on the battery type.

    5. Member Trict GTi's Avatar
      Join Date
      Oct 24th, 2005
      Location
      Somewhere
      Posts
      2,730
      Vehicles
      98 AUDI A4 1.8TQM
      02-22-2012 03:16 PM #55
      [QUOTE=rbloedow;76049004] OMG - please comprehend what you are reading before going off in such an ignorant rant. [QUOTE]


      Could have just said correction. you don't really have to be a complete as$hole about it.
      “A question that sometimes drives me hazy: am I or are the others crazy?”

    6. Member AHFlynn's Avatar
      Join Date
      Apr 6th, 2008
      Location
      UConn Country
      Posts
      3,679
      02-22-2012 03:18 PM #56
      Quote Originally Posted by Trict GTi View Post
      A Tesla Roadster that is simply parked without being plugged in will eventually become a "brick". The parasitic load from the car's always-on subsystems continually drains the battery and if the battery's charge is ever totally depleted, it is essentially destroyed. Complete discharge can happen even when the car is plugged in if it isn't receiving sufficient current to charge, which can be caused by something as simple as using an extension cord. After battery death, the car is completely inoperable. At least in the case of the Tesla Roadster, it's not even possible to enable tow mode, meaning the wheels will not turn and the vehicle cannot be pushed nor transported to a repair facility by traditional means.



      The 340th Tesla Roadster produced went to a customer in Santa Barbara, California. In 2011, he took his Roadster out for a drive and then parked it in a temporary garage while his home was being renovated. Lacking a built-in Tesla charger or a convenient power outlet, he left the car unplugged. Six weeks later his car was dead. It took four men two hours to drag the 2,700-pound Roadster onto a flatbed truck so that it could be shipped to Tesla's Los Angeles area service center, all at the owner's expense. A service manager then informed him that "it's a brick" and that the battery would cost approximately $40,000 to replace. He was further told that this was a special "friends and family" price, strongly implying that Tesla generally charges more.
      i dont think it said that, i skimmed the part you posted and didnt find it. you mind pointing out the part where it says this?

      Quote Originally Posted by Cousin Eddie View Post
      Nah, understeering into a tree in a Honda like a teenage girl ruins your street cred. I'd leave the door to show how hard you are.

    7. Senior Member Air and water do mix's Avatar
      Join Date
      Aug 5th, 2004
      Location
      Southern Indiana
      Posts
      26,109
      Vehicles
      '66 Beetle (X2) '08 Fit
      02-22-2012 03:19 PM #57
      Quote Originally Posted by rbloedow View Post
      And the point I'm trying to get across to you is there there is nothing they can do but to tell you not to improperly let the battery discharge. Again - the Volt and Toyota Prius will do the same thing over time. .
      They could also have built in more of a reservoir into the battery programming at the expense of range, but that wouldn't look as good on the brochure.

      This is a big deal and whether or not it's a fundamentally inevitable occurrence, it could have been done better and been covered (cost-wise) better. Sticking an uneducated customer with a bill for $40,000 isn't a good way to get more customers, because this certainly will hit the networks. For comparison, just look at the Volt fires, even though not one of those happened to a customer in the real world.
      Quote Originally Posted by Boyz in da Park
      Proletariat, Bourgeoise - Everybody smellin' my potpourri...

    8. Member rbloedow's Avatar
      Join Date
      Aug 14th, 2003
      Location
      Warner Robins, GA
      Posts
      5,498
      Vehicles
      2010 Honda Element SC, 2015 Audi A6 2.0 Premium Plus
      02-22-2012 03:21 PM #58
      Quote Originally Posted by Trict GTi View Post
      A Tesla Roadster that is simply parked without being plugged in will eventually become a "brick". The parasitic load from the car's always-on subsystems continually drains the battery and if the battery's charge is ever totally depleted, it is essentially destroyed. Complete discharge can happen even when the car is plugged in if it isn't receiving sufficient current to charge, which can be caused by something as simple as using an extension cord. After battery death, the car is completely inoperable. At least in the case of the Tesla Roadster, it's not even possible to enable tow mode, meaning the wheels will not turn and the vehicle cannot be pushed nor transported to a repair facility by traditional means.



      The 340th Tesla Roadster produced went to a customer in Santa Barbara, California. In 2011, he took his Roadster out for a drive and then parked it in a temporary garage while his home was being renovated. Lacking a built-in Tesla charger or a convenient power outlet, he left the car unplugged. Six weeks later his car was dead. It took four men two hours to drag the 2,700-pound Roadster onto a flatbed truck so that it could be shipped to Tesla's Los Angeles area service center, all at the owner's expense. A service manager then informed him that "it's a brick" and that the battery would cost approximately $40,000 to replace. He was further told that this was a special "friends and family" price, strongly implying that Tesla generally charges more.
      Again - none of these examples fit with the situation you brought up. Each of these instances involved letting the battery fully deplete over extended periods of time.

      If you run out of juice on the highway, you haven't really depleted all of your power - your gauge might say empty, but there is still a 10-20% charge left on the battery. The car shuts itself down before the battery is depleted, allowing you to put it in tow mode. It is only if you let the car sit for days after pulling over will the battery brick itself.

    9. Member Trict GTi's Avatar
      Join Date
      Oct 24th, 2005
      Location
      Somewhere
      Posts
      2,730
      Vehicles
      98 AUDI A4 1.8TQM
      02-22-2012 03:21 PM #59
      Quote Originally Posted by AHFlynn View Post
      i dont think it said that, i skimmed the part you posted and didnt find it. you mind pointing out the part where it says this?

      I stand corrected by "rbloedow" but it does say when it is at zero% when parked for an extended period of time then everything will lock up not lettin you engade toe mode.
      “A question that sometimes drives me hazy: am I or are the others crazy?”

    10. Member XiaoNio's Avatar
      Join Date
      Nov 22nd, 2005
      Location
      Sacto, CA
      Posts
      2,782
      Vehicles
      05 S2000, 07 Speed Triple
      02-22-2012 03:22 PM #60
      Ummm Trict, that paragraph says that the car was dead upon trying to start it up after being left without charge for weeks. That is a very different from running out of power while on the road and being stuck without a neutral.

      *edit*
      Too slow.

    11. Member AHFlynn's Avatar
      Join Date
      Apr 6th, 2008
      Location
      UConn Country
      Posts
      3,679
      02-22-2012 03:22 PM #61
      Quote Originally Posted by Trict GTi View Post
      I stand corrected by "rbloedow" but it does say when it is at zero% when parked for an extended period of time then everything will lock up not lettin you engade toe mode.
      Quote Originally Posted by Cousin Eddie View Post
      Nah, understeering into a tree in a Honda like a teenage girl ruins your street cred. I'd leave the door to show how hard you are.

    12. Senior Member Air and water do mix's Avatar
      Join Date
      Aug 5th, 2004
      Location
      Southern Indiana
      Posts
      26,109
      Vehicles
      '66 Beetle (X2) '08 Fit
      02-22-2012 03:24 PM #62
      Quote Originally Posted by Trict GTi View Post
      I stand corrected by "rbloedow" but it does say when it is at zero% when parked for an extended period of time then everything will lock up not lettin you engade toe mode.
      You got it.

      It's the difference between the computer telling you you're at 0% and actually being at 0%.
      Quote Originally Posted by Boyz in da Park
      Proletariat, Bourgeoise - Everybody smellin' my potpourri...

    13. Member freedomgli's Avatar
      Join Date
      Mar 25th, 2002
      Location
      USA
      Posts
      9,522
      02-22-2012 03:27 PM #63
      Quote Originally Posted by rbloedow View Post
      And the point I'm trying to get across to you is there there is nothing they can do but to tell you not to improperly let the battery discharge. Again - the Volt and Toyota Prius will do the same thing over time. .
      Yes, there absolutely is something the manufacturer can do to mitigate this risk more than they have done so far. Clearly owners have a responsibility to maintain their vehicles. Just as manufacturers have a responsibility to make their cars reasonably robust. We as consumers rely on the manufacturers to be the experts and to design cars that are durable and can withstand foreseeable use. There is obviously a give and a take involved here. Would you feel the same way if you had to plug the car in every day or else it would become bricked?

    14. Member Trict GTi's Avatar
      Join Date
      Oct 24th, 2005
      Location
      Somewhere
      Posts
      2,730
      Vehicles
      98 AUDI A4 1.8TQM
      02-22-2012 03:27 PM #64
      Now as far as the charging system does tesla provid one that you must intagrade into your home? and would you be able to use the charging stations in a parking lot? And is it for 110v or 220v?
      “A question that sometimes drives me hazy: am I or are the others crazy?”

    15. 02-22-2012 03:36 PM #65
      Quote Originally Posted by PlatinumGLS View Post
      Gimme a VOLT
      Meh I'll stick with the Prius.

    16. Member zeewhiz's Avatar
      Join Date
      Feb 11th, 2008
      Location
      Greenville, SC
      Posts
      2,068
      Vehicles
      '06 xB, '97 Odyssey, '84 C10
      02-22-2012 03:38 PM #66
      stopped reading at "From Jalopnik:"
      I'm just your local purveyor of Miata and Nissan Z-car fanboyism.

      Quote Originally Posted by patrickvr6 View Post
      People also line up to get a table at Applebee's on a Friday night. Just because something is popular doesn't mean it is good.

    17. Member
      Join Date
      Mar 7th, 2006
      Location
      Nashville, TN
      Posts
      1,032
      Vehicles
      02 GTI, 72 Pontiac Catalina, 03 Elantra
      02-22-2012 03:40 PM #67
      Quote Originally Posted by freedomgli View Post
      Yes, there absolutely is something the manufacturer can do to mitigate this risk more than they have done so far. Clearly owners have a responsibility to maintain their vehicles. Just as manufacturers have a responsibility to make their cars reasonably robust. We as consumers rely on the manufacturers to be the experts and to design cars that are durable and can withstand foreseeable use. There is obviously a give and a take involved here. Would you feel the same way if you had to plug the car in every day or else it would become bricked?
      People keep saying Tesla needs to do more, what more do they need to do other than tell people to keep the car charged? which I believe is expressly stated in the owners manual

      Again, this is not a case of "oops if you use the turn signal the car dies", this is something that is neglectful with respect to electric cars.

      Do car makers have a responsibility to cover damage to a gas engine that doesn't receive oil changes? How about a rotary that gets run dry of oil because the owner doesn't check the level?


      An example I can think of off hand, Snap On flat headed screw driver, you snap a tip off using it as a pry bar. Should Snap On warranty the screw driver? Technically speaking, you are using the tool in a manner outside its designed useage, that is not something that should be warrantied. You however use the term "foreseeable use", I'll straight up tell you, there are millions of Snap On screw drivers that have been used as pry bars in the past, will continue to be used that way in the future, I have several myself as a matter of fact. Does that fact suddenly make it something that should be warrantied?
      How about as a punch? a chisel? a hammer?

    18. 02-22-2012 03:44 PM #68
      Quote Originally Posted by AHFlynn View Post
      interesting. im a pretty huge tesla supporter, actually going to try to get a job out there once i graduate, but its pretty dumb they didnt bother to properly inform their customers about this. i dont see this as being a huge issue, i mean its only affected 5 out of 2500 roadster owners, but a simple "hey, by the way, leaving your car uncharged for over a week could permanently damage your battery" at purchase would have prevented all of these problems.

      im sure theyll design a better safeguard into it now that its become a minor pr sh*tstorm.

      Not really concerned about job security then huh?

    19. Member rbloedow's Avatar
      Join Date
      Aug 14th, 2003
      Location
      Warner Robins, GA
      Posts
      5,498
      Vehicles
      2010 Honda Element SC, 2015 Audi A6 2.0 Premium Plus
      02-22-2012 03:45 PM #69
      Quote Originally Posted by freedomgli View Post
      Yes, there absolutely is something the manufacturer can do to mitigate this risk more than they have done so far. Clearly owners have a responsibility to maintain their vehicles. Just as manufacturers have a responsibility to make their cars reasonably robust. We as consumers rely on the manufacturers to be the experts and to design cars that are durable and can withstand foreseeable use. There is obviously a give and a take involved here. Would you feel the same way if you had to plug the car in every day or else it would become bricked?
      Look – here’s the manual: http://webarchive.teslamotors.com/im...mplete.pdf.zip

      “Failure to charge immediately could result in the battery level falling to a critically low level and it may not be possible to recharge it. Note: If the Battery reaches 0% when driving in Range mode or after you’ve cycled the key to access final reserve, there is no reserve and you must charge the Battery immediately. FULLY DEPLETING THE BATTERY WHILE IN RANGE MODE OR IN RESERVE, AND NOT CHARGING IT IMMEDIATELY, CAN DAMAGE THE BATTERY. Caution: Damage to the Battery caused by failing to charge it immediately when its charge level falls to 0% is not covered by the New Vehicle Limited Warranty. If you are unable to charge the vehicle, contact Tesla Motors immediately. “

      It doesn’t get any more clear than that – RTFM.

    20. 02-22-2012 03:46 PM #70
      Good job, way to go ahead and dig a hole for your company!

      What fools.

    21. Senior Member Air and water do mix's Avatar
      Join Date
      Aug 5th, 2004
      Location
      Southern Indiana
      Posts
      26,109
      Vehicles
      '66 Beetle (X2) '08 Fit
      02-22-2012 03:51 PM #71
      Quote Originally Posted by rbloedow View Post
      It doesn’t get any more clear than that – RTFM.
      I don't know that that matters nowadays. Granted, they don't have to sell to the masses in the same way a main-line manufacturer does but if this gets to be their reputation, deserved or not, this could kill them.
      Quote Originally Posted by Boyz in da Park
      Proletariat, Bourgeoise - Everybody smellin' my potpourri...

    22. Geriatric Member Aonarch's Avatar
      Join Date
      Dec 4th, 2006
      Location
      Atlanta, GA
      Posts
      37,391
      02-22-2012 03:52 PM #72
      Quote Originally Posted by someguy123 View Post
      40k to replace the battery?
      Butler Tires & Wheels
      HRE | Savini | Lexani | Forgiato | BBS | Rotiform | RBP | Niche | TSW | Lorinser | Fuel | Black Rhino | Dub| Foose | US Mags | American Force | Vossen | Rennen | Beyern | Brambus | OZ | Enkei | Cray | Conventry | Michelin | Pirelli | Toyo | Procomp | H&R | Corsa | Borla | Eibach | Hotchkis | Remus | Akrapovič

    23. Member Chris_V's Avatar
      Join Date
      Jun 18th, 2009
      Location
      Pikesville, MD
      Posts
      14,918
      Vehicles
      '01 BMW 740i Sport, 2014 Mini Cooper, '02 Suburban 2500LT
      02-22-2012 03:54 PM #73
      Quote Originally Posted by WAR_GTI View Post
      the oil analogy sucks....
      the oil analogy had a friggin smiley on it to show it was (mostly) tongue in cheek.

      Jesus.

      But...the point was if you aren't careful you can easily damage a delicate supercar engine and cause tens of thousands of dollars in repairs, too. So the news that the Tesla has a huge flaw is kind of alarmist grandstanding to denigrate electric cars.

      If you neglect it, or PURPOSELY try to drive it after reaching 0% indicated, it's neglectful, not a flaw, like not changing the oil in a car or driving it after all the warning lights light up on the dash to say you're out of oil and overheating badly. ICE cars have their failure points after which they need a major rebuilding to operate again.

      Don't try to drive a Tesla after reaching 0% indicated, and don't leave it in a parking garage unplugged for a month.
      I love cars, but the problem is they are like schroedinger's hobby. They're always in a quantum superstate of being both awesome and a huge waste of time and money... until observation momentarily forces them into one state or another.

    24. Member PlatinumGLS's Avatar
      Join Date
      Aug 2nd, 2003
      Location
      Shelby Township, MI
      Posts
      15,740
      Vehicles
      7.4, 5.7 & 5.3
      02-22-2012 03:59 PM #74
      What happens if your area experiences a black out that lasts nearly a week like some areas during the Northeast blackout of 2003? Or areas that lose powers due to natural disaster?

    25. Senior Member Air and water do mix's Avatar
      Join Date
      Aug 5th, 2004
      Location
      Southern Indiana
      Posts
      26,109
      Vehicles
      '66 Beetle (X2) '08 Fit
      02-22-2012 04:01 PM #75
      Quote Originally Posted by PlatinumGLS View Post
      What happens if your area experiences a black out that lasts nearly a week like some areas during the Northeast blackout of 2003? Or areas that lose powers due to natural disaster?
      In that scenario your car could be dead, but it's conceivable that homeowner's insurance could cover it. That could probably vary by state and individual policy.

      This is just a supposition, don't quote me on that.
      Quote Originally Posted by Boyz in da Park
      Proletariat, Bourgeoise - Everybody smellin' my potpourri...

    Page 3 of 18 FirstFirst 123456713 ... LastLast

    Posting Permissions

    • You may not post new threads
    • You may not post replies
    • You may not post attachments
    • You may not edit your posts
    •