Euro R springs

[TLud]

One of the things I like best about the R is the suspension's balance between comfortable ride and handling performance. VW really nailed it, and the stock suspension makes for a great daily driver. That being the case, I've been extremely resistant to the idea of modifying my suspension in any way.

On the other hand, we're all very well aware of how much wheel gap the stock US-spec R has. We all have different ideas as to what the optimal ride height is aesthetically, and I really don't want to restart the beating of that dead horse in this thread, but I think most of us would agree that the stock ride height is not it.

So, I've been going back and forth in my mind as to what I want to do, and I keep coming back to the idea of swapping the springs out for ROW-spec R springs. Given that several sources have stated that the only difference between NA-spec and ROW-spec suspension components are the springs, I keep thinking that this should noticeably improve the aesthetics without significantly impacting the suspension performance. It also would be in keeping with my general M.O. for modding, which has been to stick with OEM for everything other than my wheels and APR goodies. Unfortunately, no one appears to have done this mod yet, so there's no information available. I decided to research this further.

First, I wanted to confirm what I could expect in terms of a change in ride height. Everything I've read indicates that the NA-spec R sits approximately 1 cm higher than the ROW-spec R, but I wanted to confirm this. I found a post from an Aussie who measured his R with OEM standard (non-ACC) suspension and 18" wheels. With a full gas tank and on level ground, he measured the distance between the bottom lip of the wheel to the edge of the wheel arch at its highest point and got 605 mm for the front and 610 mm for the rear. I did the same measurements under the same conditions and got 614 mm for the front and 619 mm for the rear. Accounting for measurement error, this appears to confirm that the ride height is approximately 1 cm different.

This should be just what I'm looking for aesthetically. I will be replacing the stock 18" wheels and 225/40 tires with 19" wheels and 235/35 tires, which will close the wheel gap by approximately 5 mm. The diameter of the stock wheels/tires is 637 mm, and the diameter of the new wheels/tires is 647 mm. Half of that 10 mm difference will be below the hub and won't affect the wheel gap. Thus, the ROW-spec R springs together with the new wheels/tires should close wheel gap by a combined 1.5 cm (0.6"), which will be a noticeable improvement.

Second, I wanted to confirm that the ROW-spec springs would not cause any rubbing or fitment issues. I found posts from numerous ROW owners running 19x8.5" wheels with 235/35 tires on stock and mildly lowered suspensions with no issues (even with more aggressive offsets than I will be running). This chart here also confirms that fitment should not be an issue.

Third, I wanted to determine whether switching to this setup would create too harsh of a ride. Obviously, this is one of those things that you really can't know until you try it for yourself, but I read numerous comments and reviews of ROW owners riding on 19" wheels and the standard suspension, and they were almost unanimously favorable. I'll provide a detailed comparison of my own.

I'd also like to know: (1) what the spring rates are on both the ROW-spec and US-spec springs; (2) whether the bump stops are different on the two versions and, if so, how (I noticed that the ROW-spring kit that OEMplus sells includes bump stops); and (3) what the suspension travel distance is on both setups. If anyone has this information, please post it here.

I decided to be the guinnea pig on this mod, and ordered the ROW-spec R spring kit from OEMplus, which is available here. It's on backorder, so I'll have to wait a few weeks before they come in. The price is a little steep ($595), so if you're looking for the best bang for the buck in terms of lowering, this is not it.

I will take measurements and pics of everything before and after and thoroughly document everything, along with my driving impressions.

[autofi]

The front and rear bumpstops are the same for all markets so no need to order those.

[MonkeyMagic!]

Very interested in this thread, thank you for being the first to take the plunge!

[TLud]

The front and rear bumpstops are the same for all markets so no need to order those.

Thanks for the confirmation. I suspected that OEMplus simply included them for owners of other Golf variants who want to use the R springs.

[GRB]

I've been debating this myself. TLud and I have the same modding philosophy.

I'm not sure whether to bite the bullet and get OEM Euro springs and call it day (since the dampers are the same), or upgrade to H&R sport springs with Bilstein sport shocks. This setup would also cure the wheel gap (perhaps just slightly lower than the Euro springs), but also provide more agressive damping.

I've been holding out so as not be a guinea pig.

[DaLeadBull]

TLud, we have the same philosophy my friend. My only performance mods will be wheels/tires and APR software.

I thought about the euro springs too but at close to 600 bucks, I don't think its worth it. If you have a Golf or a GTI, then it may be worth it. But 600 bucks for 1cm lowering is a little much. But I'm looking forward to see some before and after pics.

I'm just going to upgrade to 19's which like you said reduce the wheel gap a little and call it a day. Plus I'll keep the 18's for winter when the wheel gap is actually beneficial.

[Yunque05]

I look forward to seeing how this turns out. This is the only suspension route I am considering.

[smohr33]

Is it definite that the ROW cars have the same struts? If so this is a no brainer. Can someone confirm with pictures of part numbers?

[slackin' at work]

I went this same route with my 04 R32.
I ordered the oem euro springs and the stated drop was similar. 3/8".

you really won't notice much of anything. ride and handling will be similar.
and by eye, you probably won't really see any height difference.

but Im in to see what this looks like.

[webcrawlr]

Has anyone confirmed spring rates yet? Without knowing those you're just guessing. Aren't the euro springs mated to electronic dampers as well?

[johannes]

Has anyone confirmed spring rates yet? Without knowing those you're just guessing. Aren't the euro springs mated to electronic dampers as well?

TLUD is doing much the opposite of guessing. He is paying a premium to place the springs VW Engineers chose to use for the for the standard sport suspension ROW Golf R Should be a very subtle aesthetic and possibly also a very small performance improvement

[TLud]

I've been debating this myself. TLud and I have the same modding philosophy.

I'm not sure whether to bite the bullet and get OEM Euro springs and call it day (since the dampers are the same), or upgrade to H&R sport springs with Bilstein sport shocks. This setup would also cure the wheel gap (perhaps just slightly lower than the Euro springs), but also provide more agressive damping.

I've been holding out so as not be a guinea pig.

I'm your huckleberry.

Hopefully I can give you the information you need to evaluate one of your options. It would be awesome if others in Houston or the central Texas area with different aftermarket suspension setups could meet up and we could do back-to-back comparisons and post our impressions.

Unfortunately, these springs are backordered at OEMplus, so it will probably be the second half of March before I get them on my car.

TLud, we have the same philosophy my friend. My only performance mods will be wheels/tires and APR software.

I thought about the euro springs too but at close to 600 bucks, I don't think its worth it. If you have a Golf or a GTI, then it may be worth it. But 600 bucks for 1cm lowering is a little much. But I'm looking forward to see some before and after pics.

I'm just going to upgrade to 19's which like you said reduce the wheel gap a little and call it a day. Plus I'll keep the 18's for winter when the wheel gap is actually beneficial.

I hear ya. Like I said in my initial post, this certainly isn't the best bang for the buck. It's really for those who are willing to pay a little extra to fine tune and get exactly what they want. I'm not thinking about the $/cm drop value; I'm thinking about this from the larger perspective of the theme of my R build.

I look forward to seeing how this turns out. This is the only suspension route I am considering.

Having talked to a few R owners and having read a lot on the 'tex, I figured there were at least a few others who, like me, were interested in this option, but were waiting for someone to take the plunge. I don't mind being that guy.

I went this same route with my 04 R32.
I ordered the oem euro springs and the stated drop was similar. 3/8".

you really won't notice much of anything. ride and handling will be similar.
and by eye, you probably won't really see any height difference.

but Im in to see what this looks like.

Big thanks for your input. It's nice to hear you confirm that, at least with an earlier model, there weren't drastic changes to the ride and handling feel. I agree that there also won't be a real noticeable drop. While not obvious, I've been checking out a lot of pics of Euro Rs, and they do look significantly better even though the drop is so small.

[ook]

I'm in the exact same boat looking at going to 19s and the Euro springs. Thanks for taking the plunge TLug!

Subscribed!

[RBR Programme]

Thanks TLud! You are "the Lone Star" I will be watching with great interest

[Hitman]

Tlud, on behalf of the rest of us Texans, bless you and good luck.. We are all counting on you.
(mine's here now too, so I can legit say that)

[TLud]

Thanks for the encouragement. I've been following scottgpt88's thread here describing his new H&R sport springs. He's not too far from me, and I think it would be really helpful for people to see a side-by-side visual comparison and to hear our impressions on their relative ride and handling characteristics.

Hitman, congrats on the new R. How do you like her so far?

[brakedust]

Hmmm I was debating about this myself ... I'd like to see the differences for sure and that is the exact same wheel setup I was going with myself ...

Keep up the good work and post plenty of pics

[Hitman]

Hitman, congrats on the new R. How do you like her so far?

Just picked her up last night. I need a couple of weeks to really give a fair assessment. Coming from a MKiv R32 and then RS4, the differences between instant torque of bigger engines and a turbo 2.0 are something I have to get used to. The car is beautiful, and really the most practical marriage of all the things I want in a daily driver. (something the RS4, was most definitely not).

I'm really into watching what you and others do with suspension because the wheel gap is pretty gaping, but I know the OEM setup is prime. On my '04 R32 I did the swap to the OEM Euro suspension and it made such an outstanding difference in the car. It really transformed it. I suspect that the R's US setup isn't as bad a difference from ROW in terms of performance compared to the MKiv's differences, but in that case I did the whole deal, not just the springs.

I personally would love to see your car not just for that mod, but the others you've done as well. All things I would consider or already want to do.... (RVC!!!)

[Tailwagger]

Here's one advantage of not yet having a car. Get to have others fumble about finding the best solution.

So does anyone know if the stock springs are fixed rate or progressive? And would it not potentially, depending on the answer, be cheaper to find a good race shop and simply cut the stock springs down?

Regardless, for ascension to forum God status, if you're not doing the install yourself, perhaps there is a race shop in your area with a spring dyno that would be willing as a part of the changeover to measure the two sets of springs for a quick comparison. That would get you the rates and end the speculation once and for all.

[SHO'NUFF]

noticeably improve the aesthetics without significantly impacting the suspension performance

[Siliconrane]

I will be keeping an eye on this thread as suspension balance is extremely important to me. If the Euro springs give enough benefit, I will easily take the plunge and get a set. Good Luck my Friend.

[TLud]

Just picked her up last night. I need a couple of weeks to really give a fair assessment. Coming from a MKiv R32 and then RS4, the differences between instant torque of bigger engines and a turbo 2.0 are something I have to get used to. The car is beautiful, and really the most practical marriage of all the things I want in a daily driver. (something the RS4, was most definitely not).

I'm really into watching what you and others do with suspension because the wheel gap is pretty gaping, but I know the OEM setup is prime. On my '04 R32 I did the swap to the OEM Euro suspension and it made such an outstanding difference in the car. It really transformed it. I suspect that the R's US setup isn't as bad a difference from ROW in terms of performance compared to the MKiv's differences, but in that case I did the whole deal, not just the springs.

I personally would love to see your car not just for that mod, but the others you've done as well. All things I would consider or already want to do.... (RVC!!!)

We'll definitely have to meet up. I'm up in DFW fairly frequently (2 of my brothers live up there). When I first got the R, I too was initially a little underwhelmed by the power, having come from a much faster car with the grunt of a V8. Less than 500 miles later, I had my R flashed with APR's stage 1 tune, and I became a very happy man. Although I'll be going at least Stage 1+, I'd be completely content to keep my car as is.

Here's one advantage of not yet having a car. Get to have others fumble about finding the best solution.

So does anyone know if the stock springs are fixed rate or progressive? And would it not potentially, depending on the answer, be cheaper to find a good race shop and simply cut the stock springs down?

Regardless, for ascension to forum God status, if you're not doing the install yourself, perhaps there is a race shop in your area with a spring dyno that would be willing as a part of the changeover to measure the two sets of springs for a quick comparison. That would get you the rates and end the speculation once and for all.

Great call about getting the spring rates analyzed. I know just the place. Draco, the largest custom spring manufacturer in the world is right here in Houston, and I'm sure they can help me out.

I will be keeping an eye on this thread as suspension balance is extremely important to me. If the Euro springs give enough benefit, I will easily take the plunge and get a set. Good Luck my Friend.

Lol. You'll probably hear the results straight from me before I even post them up here.

[autofi]

The difference in spring rates euro versus usa is ~ front 45lbs. lighter for euro and rear ~ 85 lbs. lighter for euro.This explains the ride height difference euro versus usa!

[Yunque05]

The difference in spring rates euro versus usa is ~ front 45lbs. lighter for euro and rear ~ 85 lbs. lighter for euro.This explains the ride height difference euro versus usa!

Very interesting..

[20VConvBug]

You read my mind! I want to do the same thing when I get my R. I have ROW springs in my 911 and Bilstein HD coilovers (911s have been coming with coilovers from the factory for a while for corner balancing) and I noticed a nice drop although it is not slammed. On the other hand, I didn't want to do coilovers on the R like I did on my Bug because the ride is so harsh (pss9's), so I was thinking that ROW springs would be a good compromise.

[TLud]

The difference in spring rates euro versus usa is ~ front 45lbs. lighter for euro and rear ~ 85 lbs. lighter for euro.This explains the ride height difference euro versus usa!

autofi, you have supplied some very helpful information in this thread and elsewhere on the forum. Thank you for your contributions. If you know the differential in spring rates between the Euro and US springs, does that mean you also know the actual rates for both? If so, that would be extremely helpful to have. Also, do you know whether they are linear or progressive?

You read my mind! I want to do the same thing when I get my R. I have ROW springs in my 911 and Bilstein HD coilovers (911s have been coming with coilovers from the factory for a while for corner balancing) and I noticed a nice drop although it is not slammed. On the other hand, I didn't want to do coilovers on the R like I did on my Bug because the ride is so harsh (pss9's), so I was thinking that ROW springs would be a good compromise.

You and I are thinking alike.

[Tailwagger]

The difference in spring rates euro versus usa is ~ front 45lbs. lighter for euro and rear ~ 85 lbs. lighter for euro.This explains the ride height difference euro versus usa!

Interesting. Just curious, do you happen to know if the spring rates the same for conventional versus mag shock equipped cars?

[autofi]

The only info I have are axle load numbers that VW gives out for each spring.As TechEd had confirmed the US springs have a higher spring load.I do not have actual spring rate measured off the car yet!

[webcrawlr]

The difference in spring rates euro versus usa is ~ front 45lbs. lighter for euro and rear ~ 85 lbs. lighter for euro.This explains the ride height difference euro versus usa!

So switching to the euros will get you a softer ride along with the drop...

[TLud]

So switching to the euros will get you a softer ride along with the drop...

Based on autofi's information and assuming they are both linear springs.

[autofi]

Taking into consideration MKV euro springs which I used on '07 Gti the coil was wound differently however the ride was the same.The big difference was the turn in,set time in the rear was direct with no delay and the ride height was also dropped 10 mm compared to US spec.

[autofi]

Based on autofi's information and assuming they are both linear springs.

The R in my mind went one step further in tuning the springs.As TLud explained the chassis is good right out of the box and I too am trying to avoid the euro spring but would be the only way to go.But those 10 mm sure make it look right!

[webcrawlr]

Based on autofi's information and assuming they are both linear springs.

If they tested axle load I don't think it'd make a difference if it was progressive or not.

[Siliconrane]

So switching to the euros will get you a softer ride along with the drop...

If the springs are the same for the Mag Car and they would have to be softer, it would make sense in a way. VW would have to set the spring rate to the softer of the 2 programs so that the car would have the smoother ride with the Mag setup in Soft mode. In Sport mode, the Mag Shock would have to compensate to give it the stiffer ride. Makes sense in my mind at least - Please correct me if I am wrong.

[TLud]

If they tested axle load I don't think it'd make a difference if it was progressive or not.

Yes, but that's different than "ride softness," which I guess I misunderstood what you meant.

Also, I gave some more thought to the numbers that autofi posted. Based on that, and all other things in the suspension being equal (as we've been told they are), won't the Euro R have less roll resistance on the rear axle relative to the roll resistance on the front as compared to the US R? And wouldn't that result in more understeer on the Euro setup?