Euro R springs

[droopy1592]

I'm counting on you Tlud. I'm following in your footsteps as soon as I get some other things taken care of.

[TLud]

When will tech ed step in?

I know that questions regarding the Euro R springs have been posed directly to him several times (including by me), but to my knowledge, he has never addressed them other than to say generally that the additional travel of the U.S. R springs is a good thing. In fact, I got the impression that he was conspicuously avoiding the question. Frankly, I'd love his input.

[JLCVDUB]

Well, not pointed directly at the euro springs.. More like slapping on any old spring for a better look.

[autofi]

Well, not pointed directly at the euro springs.. More like slapping on any old spring for a better look.

Yes this brings up the dilemma that Eibach and HR springs made for german cars that always lowered the car by softening the initial rate which then took out some travel and end result bouncing off the bumpstops.

[TLud]

I'm counting on you Tlud. I'm following in your footsteps as soon as I get some other things taken care of.

Well, whenever the springs finally get here, I hope my efforts will be helpful to you and others. If you have any specific info other than what I've outlined above, just let me know.

Well, not pointed directly at the euro springs.. More like slapping on any old spring for a better look.

Agreed. It's a shame that these companies market their springs as if they'd been specifically designed for a particular car, when in fact, that's generally not the case. It's very misleading. A closer look usually reveals that they're offering the same springs for cars with different weights and weight balances, different dampers, and different suspension setups.

Yes this brings up the dilemma that Eibach and HR springs made for german cars that always lowered the car by softening the initial rate which then took out some travel and end result bouncing off the bumpstops.

Yes, the Eibach springs were like this on the M3, which was especially problematic because the M3's suspension was designed with very little travel and the 2-stage bump stops were actually designed to work as part of the suspension. The aftermarket spring manufacturers did not take this into account at all. I addressed this by using different bump stops (off an E36), but even so, it wasn't optimal.

[autofi]

About the only time these springs would work better than average was on graymarket models which at the time happen to be also much lighter.

[autofi]

Yes E36 with HR coilovers is a good compromise but still a bit firm.

[webcrawlr]

Yes, the Eibach springs were like this on the M3, which was especially problematic because the M3's suspension was designed with very little travel and the 2-stage bump stops were actually designed to work as part of the suspension. The aftermarket spring manufacturers did not take this into account at all. I addressed this by using different bump stops (off an E36), but even so, it wasn't optimal.

That actually is a common euro setup, using the bump stop as part of the total spring rate. Not the best way to do it imo but they seem to pull it off with great results (when kept OEM).

Yes E36 with HR coilovers is a good compromise but still a bit firm.

I'd bet a good two way adjustable setup like the KW3s with spring rates 75-100lbs over stock would give you the best of both worlds!

[TLud]

I'd bet a good two way adjustable setup like the KW3s with spring rates 75-100lbs over stock would give you the best of both worlds!

Possibly so. Unfortunately with the E90/2, if you want to keep the OEM adjustable-on-they-fly suspension system, you're obviously limited to changing springs.

[autofi]

That actually is a common euro setup, using the bump stop as part of the total spring rate. Not the best way to do it imo but they seem to pull it off with great results (when kept OEM).


I'd bet a good two way adjustable setup like the KW3s with spring rates 75-100lbs over stock would give you the best of both worlds!

The only part missing here is the euro roads,much smoother and overall better maintained!

[TLud]

The only part missing here is the euro roads,much smoother and overall better maintained!

Exactly! Small bump compliance with the Eibachs wasn't bad, and the spring rate in the initial travel matched fairly well with the stock damping, but anything in the road that resulted in more spring travel caused problems. It was very "crashy" due to the shortened travel and had more rebound than I was comfortable with.

Like you noted, it's tough to get just right with as heavy as these cars have gotten.

[webcrawlr]

Possibly so. Unfortunately with the E90/2, if you want to keep the OEM adjustable-on-they-fly suspension system, you're obviously limited to changing springs.

Good call!

[autofi]

Exactly! Small bump compliance with the Eibachs wasn't bad, and the spring rate in the initial travel matched fairly well with the stock damping, but anything in the road that resulted in more spring travel caused problems. It was very "crashy" due to the shortened travel and had more rebound than I was comfortable with.

Like you noted, it's tough to get just right with as heavy as these cars have gotten.

So when are these springs coming so I may compare notes with color codes and axle loads?You got my attention...

[TLud]

So when are these springs coming so I may compare notes with color codes and axle loads?You got my attention...

Second half of March. I obviously haven't seen them yet, but I should be getting the following springs, right?

Front
Part #: 1K0 411105JP
Paint marks: 1 - yellow, 2 - brown
Front axle weight class: 746-790kg

Rear
Part #: 1K0 511115HT
Paint marks: 1 - blue, 1 - pink, 1 - brown
Rear axle weight class: 605-644kg

[autofi]

Second half of March. I obviously haven't seen them yet, but I should be getting the following springs, right?

Front
Part #: 1K0 411105JP
Paint marks: 1 - yellow, 2 - brown
Front axle weight class: 746-790kg

Rear
Part #: 1K0 511115HT
Paint marks: 1 - blue, 1 - pink, 1 - brown
Rear axle weight class: 605-644kg

Can't confirm till Monday morning the #'s.The only difference that matters in the front is DSG or not.All DSG models have heavier springs.
Thanks for sharing this is great!

[TLud]

Can't confirm till Monday morning the #'s.The only difference that matters in the front is DSG or not.All DSG models have heavier springs.
Thanks for sharing this is great!

I can't take credit for this info. It was provided to me by an anonymous contributed who wishes to assist from behind the scenes. Great guy, who has made this vastly easier (possible).

It was my understanding (from a different source) that the springs varied depending on number of doors and transmission type). I have not been able to independently confirm.

[autofi]

I can't take credit for this info. It was provided to me by an anonymous contributed who wishes to assist from behind the scenes. Great guy, who has made this vastly easier (possible).

It was my understanding (from a different source) that the springs varied depending on number of doors and transmission type). I have not been able to independently confirm.

Your understanding is correct and that's what makes it so fun.

[JLCVDUB]

I'll probably end up getting Koni Yellows with adjustable dampening to go with my springs. At least I will get the best of both worlds on the street. I don't ever think I'll hit the track on a regular basis, at most a couple times a year so coil-overs are out of the question.


Sent from my iPhone 4S using Tapatalk

[autofi]

Second half of March. I obviously haven't seen them yet, but I should be getting the following springs, right?

Front
Part #: 1K0 411105JP
Paint marks: 1 - yellow, 2 - brown
Front axle weight class: 746-790kg

Rear
Part #: 1K0 511115HT
Paint marks: 1 - blue, 1 - pink, 1 - brown
Rear axle weight class: 605-644kg

The part #'s are correct for axle loads.Excited to read your feedback!

[DaLeadBull]

I was very interested in the euro springs for a while until I heard about the price. lol

But I'm very much looking forward to the results, and seeing the impact on the look as well as the performance. Be sure to take before and after pics as well as note the performance before and after.

Thanks for being the guinea pig!

[JLCVDUB]

Someone in the area should dummy for this... It'd probably be worth your while as you'll receive a free product out of it.

http://www.koni-na.com/testfits.cfm

[scottgpt88]

I'm gonna post some pics of my H&R Springs settled tomorrow ... Have not seen any issues so far with ride quality and performance out of them ! Just an FYI...

[TLud]

I'm gonna post some pics of my H&R Springs settled tomorrow ... Have not seen any issues so far with ride quality and performance out of them ! Just an FYI...

Glad to hear you still like them.

We will definitely need to meet up and do some comparisons.

[DViggen]

Are these for the 4 door, with manual transmission?

Second half of March. I obviously haven't seen them yet, but I should be getting the following springs, right?

Front
Part #: 1K0 411105JP
Paint marks: 1 - yellow, 2 - brown
Front axle weight class: 746-790kg

Rear
Part #: 1K0 511115HT
Paint marks: 1 - blue, 1 - pink, 1 - brown
Rear axle weight class: 605-644kg

[takmanR]

Now the Neuspeed site lists two Golf R specific springs. One of them is the Sofsport Springs which lower the car 20 mm front and 22 mm rear. Spring rates are listed a little softer than the race springs at 300 front and 330 rear. Interestingly they list the stock spring rates at 185 front and 285 in the rear. Seems the rate is a little low on the front, but we will see when someone has them measured.

Whether these are Golf R specific springs or the regular ones that have been installed on a real car is unknown. At least it appears that they were installed and the lowering was measured. Anyway, more interesting data to add to the equation of a better way for lowering the Golf R.

[Lamfalus]

Now the Neuspeed site lists two Golf R specific springs. One of them is the Sofsport Springs which lower the car 20 mm front and 22 mm rear. Spring rates are listed a little softer than the race springs at 300 front and 330 rear. Interestingly they list the stock spring rates at 185 front and 285 in the rear. Seems the rate is a little low on the front, but we will see when someone has them measured.

Whether these are Golf R specific springs or the regular ones that have been installed on a real car is unknown. At least it appears that they were installed and the lowering was measured. Anyway, more interesting data to add to the equation of a better way for lowering the Golf R.

SofSports, woohoo! Hadn't checked Neuspeed in awhile. Something subtle as far as lowering and subtly stiffer if stock loses it's appeal after awhile.

[webcrawlr]

Now the Neuspeed site lists two Golf R specific springs. One of them is the Sofsport Springs which lower the car 20 mm front and 22 mm rear. Spring rates are listed a little softer than the race springs at 300 front and 330 rear. Interestingly they list the stock spring rates at 185 front and 285 in the rear. Seems the rate is a little low on the front, but we will see when someone has them measured.

Whether these are Golf R specific springs or the regular ones that have been installed on a real car is unknown. At least it appears that they were installed and the lowering was measured. Anyway, more interesting data to add to the equation of a better way for lowering the Golf R.

If you Goggle those part numbers you'll see that those springs have been around a while. The rates and drop they listed might be correct though. Time will tell on that.

[takmanR]

Thanks webcrawlr for that info. I suspected such, but didn't check out the part numbers. At least they are giving us a guideline for the R. The numbers were very specific to at 20 and 22mm, and not the usual "about an inch" as many manufactures state. I still wonder if the 185 is actually correct for the stock Golf R spring rate on the front?

[webcrawlr]

Thanks webcrawlr for that info. I suspected such, but didn't check out the part numbers. At least they are giving us a guideline for the R. The numbers were very specific to at 20 and 22mm, and not the usual "about an inch" as many manufactures state. I still wonder if the 185 is actually correct for the stock Golf R spring rate on the front?

I do believe TLud is going to be getting the Euro and stock springs benchmarked. If he does we'll know for sure what the stockers, and Euro's for that matter, are.

[brakedust]

friendly bump ... any progress on this?

PS: What is the cost for these springs?

[TLud]

friendly bump ... any progress on this?

PS: What is the cost for these springs?

Still waiting on the springs to arrive. I'm swamped with work right now, but I'm going to try to stop by the local dealership tomorrow to place an order for the necessary hardware to make sure I have everything when the springs arrive. I may also take some measurements of the stock suspension while I'm at it.

They were about $600, but once I confirm the part numbers and specs you need, you should be able to order it cheaper through a local dealer.


Sent from my iPhone 4S using Tapatalk

[brakedust]

Still waiting on the springs to arrive. I'm swamped with work right now, but I'm going to try to stop by the local dealership tomorrow to place an order for the necessary hardware to make sure I have everything when the springs arrive. I may also take some measurements of the stock suspension while I'm at it.

They were about $600, but once I confirm the part numbers and specs you need, you should be able to order it cheaper through a local dealer.


Sent from my iPhone 4S using Tapatalk

you tha man!

As I'm looking to get a set myself, this thread(you) is going to be very helpful . OEM+ ... is a class in itself IMHO.

[red72914]

Interesting. Just curious, do you happen to know if the spring rates the same for conventional versus mag shock equipped cars?

Without reading through the remaining pages of posts, I believe the factory US spring weights are:
185 lbs front
285 lbs rear

[TLud]

As I mentioned earlier in this thread, it has been pointed out to me (by a very helpful Tex member with experience in such things) the importance of replacing the hardware (nuts and bolts) associated with the shocks and struts when changing out the springs because modern VAG cars use torque-to-yield hardware that stretches when the assigned value has been met.

Below is a chart with a list of all of the relevant hardware, prices, and torque values, which I put in an order for this afternoon. Note that certain things certainly do not have to be replaced (e.g., the lock washers in the front), and others are more important to replace than others. Those bolts with torque values of X Nm + Y degree turn are torque-to-yield and definitely should be replaced (along with their associated nuts).



During the install, I will confirm that all of these are in fact the correct hardware. If not, I will revise this chart accordingly.

Stock suspension measurements and photos to follow (hopefully today or tomorrow -- work has been sucking up my life recently).

[Yunque05]

Thanks for the info