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    Thread: Euro R springs

    1. Member droopy1592's Avatar
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      03-04-2012 08:23 AM #71
      I'm counting on you Tlud. I'm following in your footsteps as soon as I get some other things taken care of.
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      03-04-2012 11:22 AM #72
      Quote Originally Posted by GTI-Corrado View Post
      When will tech ed step in?
      I know that questions regarding the Euro R springs have been posed directly to him several times (including by me), but to my knowledge, he has never addressed them other than to say generally that the additional travel of the U.S. R springs is a good thing. In fact, I got the impression that he was conspicuously avoiding the question. Frankly, I'd love his input.
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      03-04-2012 12:11 PM #73
      Well, not pointed directly at the euro springs.. More like slapping on any old spring for a better look.
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      03-04-2012 12:19 PM #74
      Quote Originally Posted by JLCVDUB View Post
      Well, not pointed directly at the euro springs.. More like slapping on any old spring for a better look.
      Yes this brings up the dilemma that Eibach and HR springs made for german cars that always lowered the car by softening the initial rate which then took out some travel and end result bouncing off the bumpstops.

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      03-04-2012 01:37 PM #75
      Quote Originally Posted by droopy1592 View Post
      I'm counting on you Tlud. I'm following in your footsteps as soon as I get some other things taken care of.
      Well, whenever the springs finally get here, I hope my efforts will be helpful to you and others. If you have any specific info other than what I've outlined above, just let me know.

      Quote Originally Posted by JLCVDUB View Post
      Well, not pointed directly at the euro springs.. More like slapping on any old spring for a better look.
      Agreed. It's a shame that these companies market their springs as if they'd been specifically designed for a particular car, when in fact, that's generally not the case. It's very misleading. A closer look usually reveals that they're offering the same springs for cars with different weights and weight balances, different dampers, and different suspension setups.

      Quote Originally Posted by autofi View Post
      Yes this brings up the dilemma that Eibach and HR springs made for german cars that always lowered the car by softening the initial rate which then took out some travel and end result bouncing off the bumpstops.
      Yes, the Eibach springs were like this on the M3, which was especially problematic because the M3's suspension was designed with very little travel and the 2-stage bump stops were actually designed to work as part of the suspension. The aftermarket spring manufacturers did not take this into account at all. I addressed this by using different bump stops (off an E36), but even so, it wasn't optimal.
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    6. Member autofi's Avatar
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      03-04-2012 02:35 PM #76
      About the only time these springs would work better than average was on graymarket models which at the time happen to be also much lighter.

    7. Member autofi's Avatar
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      03-04-2012 02:37 PM #77
      Yes E36 with HR coilovers is a good compromise but still a bit firm.

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      03-04-2012 02:44 PM #78
      Quote Originally Posted by TLud View Post
      Yes, the Eibach springs were like this on the M3, which was especially problematic because the M3's suspension was designed with very little travel and the 2-stage bump stops were actually designed to work as part of the suspension. The aftermarket spring manufacturers did not take this into account at all. I addressed this by using different bump stops (off an E36), but even so, it wasn't optimal.
      That actually is a common euro setup, using the bump stop as part of the total spring rate. Not the best way to do it imo but they seem to pull it off with great results (when kept OEM).

      Quote Originally Posted by autofi View Post
      Yes E36 with HR coilovers is a good compromise but still a bit firm.
      I'd bet a good two way adjustable setup like the KW3s with spring rates 75-100lbs over stock would give you the best of both worlds!

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      03-04-2012 02:50 PM #79
      Quote Originally Posted by webcrawlr View Post
      I'd bet a good two way adjustable setup like the KW3s with spring rates 75-100lbs over stock would give you the best of both worlds!
      Possibly so. Unfortunately with the E90/2, if you want to keep the OEM adjustable-on-they-fly suspension system, you're obviously limited to changing springs.
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    10. Member autofi's Avatar
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      03-04-2012 02:51 PM #80
      Quote Originally Posted by webcrawlr View Post
      That actually is a common euro setup, using the bump stop as part of the total spring rate. Not the best way to do it imo but they seem to pull it off with great results (when kept OEM).


      I'd bet a good two way adjustable setup like the KW3s with spring rates 75-100lbs over stock would give you the best of both worlds!
      The only part missing here is the euro roads,much smoother and overall better maintained!

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      03-04-2012 02:57 PM #81
      Quote Originally Posted by autofi View Post
      The only part missing here is the euro roads,much smoother and overall better maintained!
      Exactly! Small bump compliance with the Eibachs wasn't bad, and the spring rate in the initial travel matched fairly well with the stock damping, but anything in the road that resulted in more spring travel caused problems. It was very "crashy" due to the shortened travel and had more rebound than I was comfortable with.

      Like you noted, it's tough to get just right with as heavy as these cars have gotten.
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      03-04-2012 02:58 PM #82
      Quote Originally Posted by TLud View Post
      Possibly so. Unfortunately with the E90/2, if you want to keep the OEM adjustable-on-they-fly suspension system, you're obviously limited to changing springs.
      Good call!

    13. Member autofi's Avatar
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      03-04-2012 03:00 PM #83
      Quote Originally Posted by TLud View Post
      Exactly! Small bump compliance with the Eibachs wasn't bad, and the spring rate in the initial travel matched fairly well with the stock damping, but anything in the road that resulted in more spring travel caused problems. It was very "crashy" due to the shortened travel and had more rebound than I was comfortable with.

      Like you noted, it's tough to get just right with as heavy as these cars have gotten.
      So when are these springs coming so I may compare notes with color codes and axle loads?You got my attention...

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      03-04-2012 03:15 PM #84
      Quote Originally Posted by autofi View Post
      So when are these springs coming so I may compare notes with color codes and axle loads?You got my attention...
      Second half of March. I obviously haven't seen them yet, but I should be getting the following springs, right?

      Front
      Part #: 1K0 411105JP
      Paint marks: 1 - yellow, 2 - brown
      Front axle weight class: 746-790kg

      Rear
      Part #: 1K0 511115HT
      Paint marks: 1 - blue, 1 - pink, 1 - brown
      Rear axle weight class: 605-644kg
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    15. Member autofi's Avatar
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      03-04-2012 03:23 PM #85
      Quote Originally Posted by TLud View Post
      Second half of March. I obviously haven't seen them yet, but I should be getting the following springs, right?

      Front
      Part #: 1K0 411105JP
      Paint marks: 1 - yellow, 2 - brown
      Front axle weight class: 746-790kg

      Rear
      Part #: 1K0 511115HT
      Paint marks: 1 - blue, 1 - pink, 1 - brown
      Rear axle weight class: 605-644kg
      Can't confirm till Monday morning the #'s.The only difference that matters in the front is DSG or not.All DSG models have heavier springs.
      Thanks for sharing this is great!

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      03-04-2012 03:37 PM #86
      Quote Originally Posted by autofi View Post
      Can't confirm till Monday morning the #'s.The only difference that matters in the front is DSG or not.All DSG models have heavier springs.
      Thanks for sharing this is great!
      I can't take credit for this info. It was provided to me by an anonymous contributed who wishes to assist from behind the scenes. Great guy, who has made this vastly easier (possible).

      It was my understanding (from a different source) that the springs varied depending on number of doors and transmission type). I have not been able to independently confirm.
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    17. Member autofi's Avatar
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      03-04-2012 05:25 PM #87
      Quote Originally Posted by TLud View Post
      I can't take credit for this info. It was provided to me by an anonymous contributed who wishes to assist from behind the scenes. Great guy, who has made this vastly easier (possible).

      It was my understanding (from a different source) that the springs varied depending on number of doors and transmission type). I have not been able to independently confirm.
      Your understanding is correct and that's what makes it so fun.

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      03-05-2012 02:56 AM #88
      I'll probably end up getting Koni Yellows with adjustable dampening to go with my springs. At least I will get the best of both worlds on the street. I don't ever think I'll hit the track on a regular basis, at most a couple times a year so coil-overs are out of the question.


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    19. Member autofi's Avatar
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      03-05-2012 07:49 AM #89
      Quote Originally Posted by TLud View Post
      Second half of March. I obviously haven't seen them yet, but I should be getting the following springs, right?

      Front
      Part #: 1K0 411105JP
      Paint marks: 1 - yellow, 2 - brown
      Front axle weight class: 746-790kg

      Rear
      Part #: 1K0 511115HT
      Paint marks: 1 - blue, 1 - pink, 1 - brown
      Rear axle weight class: 605-644kg
      The part #'s are correct for axle loads.Excited to read your feedback!

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      03-05-2012 08:15 AM #90
      I was very interested in the euro springs for a while until I heard about the price. lol

      But I'm very much looking forward to the results, and seeing the impact on the look as well as the performance. Be sure to take before and after pics as well as note the performance before and after.

      Thanks for being the guinea pig!
      Last edited by DaLeadBull; 03-05-2012 at 08:19 AM.

    21. Member JLCVDUB's Avatar
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      03-05-2012 11:33 PM #91
      Someone in the area should dummy for this... It'd probably be worth your while as you'll receive a free product out of it.

      http://www.koni-na.com/testfits.cfm
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      03-05-2012 11:44 PM #92
      I'm gonna post some pics of my H&R Springs settled tomorrow ... Have not seen any issues so far with ride quality and performance out of them ! Just an FYI...

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      03-06-2012 02:30 PM #93
      Quote Originally Posted by scottgpt88 View Post
      I'm gonna post some pics of my H&R Springs settled tomorrow ... Have not seen any issues so far with ride quality and performance out of them ! Just an FYI...
      Glad to hear you still like them.

      We will definitely need to meet up and do some comparisons.
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    24. 03-06-2012 03:20 PM #94
      Are these for the 4 door, with manual transmission?


      Quote Originally Posted by TLud View Post
      Second half of March. I obviously haven't seen them yet, but I should be getting the following springs, right?

      Front
      Part #: 1K0 411105JP
      Paint marks: 1 - yellow, 2 - brown
      Front axle weight class: 746-790kg

      Rear
      Part #: 1K0 511115HT
      Paint marks: 1 - blue, 1 - pink, 1 - brown
      Rear axle weight class: 605-644kg

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      03-06-2012 11:42 PM #95
      Now the Neuspeed site lists two Golf R specific springs. One of them is the Sofsport Springs which lower the car 20 mm front and 22 mm rear. Spring rates are listed a little softer than the race springs at 300 front and 330 rear. Interestingly they list the stock spring rates at 185 front and 285 in the rear. Seems the rate is a little low on the front, but we will see when someone has them measured.

      Whether these are Golf R specific springs or the regular ones that have been installed on a real car is unknown. At least it appears that they were installed and the lowering was measured. Anyway, more interesting data to add to the equation of a better way for lowering the Golf R.

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      03-06-2012 11:56 PM #96
      Quote Originally Posted by takmanR View Post
      Now the Neuspeed site lists two Golf R specific springs. One of them is the Sofsport Springs which lower the car 20 mm front and 22 mm rear. Spring rates are listed a little softer than the race springs at 300 front and 330 rear. Interestingly they list the stock spring rates at 185 front and 285 in the rear. Seems the rate is a little low on the front, but we will see when someone has them measured.

      Whether these are Golf R specific springs or the regular ones that have been installed on a real car is unknown. At least it appears that they were installed and the lowering was measured. Anyway, more interesting data to add to the equation of a better way for lowering the Golf R.
      SofSports, woohoo! Hadn't checked Neuspeed in awhile. Something subtle as far as lowering and subtly stiffer if stock loses it's appeal after awhile.
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      03-07-2012 09:55 AM #97
      Quote Originally Posted by takmanR View Post
      Now the Neuspeed site lists two Golf R specific springs. One of them is the Sofsport Springs which lower the car 20 mm front and 22 mm rear. Spring rates are listed a little softer than the race springs at 300 front and 330 rear. Interestingly they list the stock spring rates at 185 front and 285 in the rear. Seems the rate is a little low on the front, but we will see when someone has them measured.

      Whether these are Golf R specific springs or the regular ones that have been installed on a real car is unknown. At least it appears that they were installed and the lowering was measured. Anyway, more interesting data to add to the equation of a better way for lowering the Golf R.
      If you Goggle those part numbers you'll see that those springs have been around a while. The rates and drop they listed might be correct though. Time will tell on that.

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      03-07-2012 09:17 PM #98
      Thanks webcrawlr for that info. I suspected such, but didn't check out the part numbers. At least they are giving us a guideline for the R. The numbers were very specific to at 20 and 22mm, and not the usual "about an inch" as many manufactures state. I still wonder if the 185 is actually correct for the stock Golf R spring rate on the front?

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      03-07-2012 10:40 PM #99
      Quote Originally Posted by takmanR View Post
      Thanks webcrawlr for that info. I suspected such, but didn't check out the part numbers. At least they are giving us a guideline for the R. The numbers were very specific to at 20 and 22mm, and not the usual "about an inch" as many manufactures state. I still wonder if the 185 is actually correct for the stock Golf R spring rate on the front?
      I do believe TLud is going to be getting the Euro and stock springs benchmarked. If he does we'll know for sure what the stockers, and Euro's for that matter, are.

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      03-17-2012 12:14 AM #100
      friendly bump ... any progress on this?

      PS: What is the cost for these springs?
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      03-17-2012 01:50 AM #101
      Quote Originally Posted by brakedust View Post
      friendly bump ... any progress on this?

      PS: What is the cost for these springs?
      Still waiting on the springs to arrive. I'm swamped with work right now, but I'm going to try to stop by the local dealership tomorrow to place an order for the necessary hardware to make sure I have everything when the springs arrive. I may also take some measurements of the stock suspension while I'm at it.

      They were about $600, but once I confirm the part numbers and specs you need, you should be able to order it cheaper through a local dealer.


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      03-18-2012 01:27 AM #102
      Quote Originally Posted by TLud View Post
      Still waiting on the springs to arrive. I'm swamped with work right now, but I'm going to try to stop by the local dealership tomorrow to place an order for the necessary hardware to make sure I have everything when the springs arrive. I may also take some measurements of the stock suspension while I'm at it.

      They were about $600, but once I confirm the part numbers and specs you need, you should be able to order it cheaper through a local dealer.


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      you tha man!

      As I'm looking to get a set myself, this thread(you) is going to be very helpful . OEM+ ... is a class in itself IMHO.
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      03-19-2012 05:44 PM #103
      Quote Originally Posted by Tailwagger View Post
      Interesting. Just curious, do you happen to know if the spring rates the same for conventional versus mag shock equipped cars?

      Without reading through the remaining pages of posts, I believe the factory US spring weights are:
      185 lbs front
      285 lbs rear
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      03-24-2012 01:05 PM #104
      As I mentioned earlier in this thread, it has been pointed out to me (by a very helpful Tex member with experience in such things) the importance of replacing the hardware (nuts and bolts) associated with the shocks and struts when changing out the springs because modern VAG cars use torque-to-yield hardware that stretches when the assigned value has been met.

      Below is a chart with a list of all of the relevant hardware, prices, and torque values, which I put in an order for this afternoon. Note that certain things certainly do not have to be replaced (e.g., the lock washers in the front), and others are more important to replace than others. Those bolts with torque values of X Nm + Y degree turn are torque-to-yield and definitely should be replaced (along with their associated nuts).

      Spring install hardware chart

      During the install, I will confirm that all of these are in fact the correct hardware. If not, I will revise this chart accordingly.

      Stock suspension measurements and photos to follow (hopefully today or tomorrow -- work has been sucking up my life recently).
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    35. 03-24-2012 01:06 PM #105
      Thanks for the info

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