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    Thread: Euro R springs

    1. 04-24-2012 04:21 PM #211
      Quote Originally Posted by brakedust View Post
      I'm asking for a better price with BKS, right now OTD price is $435 if we get more than 20 guys .. I'm trying to see if they'll do $400.
      I'd be in for a GB at $400.

    2. Member pierovw's Avatar
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      04-24-2012 05:35 PM #212
      Quote Originally Posted by TLud View Post
      Geez, for those prices, I'd do it for you.

      Quotes like that tell me that either they don't know what they're doing or they're taking advantage of you. Either way, no bueno.
      LOL I was quoted $450 with alignment in the EXACT same shop that Tlud installed his....
      That seems way too high, they mentioned 3.5 or 4 hours for the install. I just mentioned it was a springs install not specifically these, but still...

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      04-24-2012 05:42 PM #213
      Quote Originally Posted by pierovw View Post
      LOL I was quoted $450 with alignment in the EXACT same shop that Tlud installed his....
      That seems way too high, they mentioned 3.5 or 4 hours for the install. I just mentioned it was a springs install not specifically these, but still...
      Geez. I really did get a business discount. Give Steve at Drivers Source a call. I watched them do it on my M3. They spent 2 hours doing it and charged me accordingly.

      ADD: There is a guy, Jake, here in Houston and on the europeanag.com forum, who will do it for $200.
      Last edited by TLud; 04-24-2012 at 05:56 PM.
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    4. Member pierovw's Avatar
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      04-24-2012 06:15 PM #214
      Quote Originally Posted by TLud View Post
      Geez. I really did get a business discount. Give Steve at Drivers Source a call. I watched them do it on my M3. They spent 2 hours doing it and charged me accordingly.

      ADD: There is a guy, Jake, here in Houston and on the europeanag.com forum, who will do it for $200.
      Yeah I will probably go with the guys at EAG! They charge $200 and they have a really good reputation installing suspension mods in Houston! ELM labor was WAY too high for my taste.

    5. Member AutoX Matt's Avatar
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      04-24-2012 06:39 PM #215
      Quote Originally Posted by TechEd View Post
      No.

      And I say this because as an engineer and old fart racer I never found the US version to lack steering response in fast transients and not once during the full range of 5/10ths to 10/10ths pace I drive during testing did I encounter any turn-in understeer to complain about. A couple of reasons for this are because I am and remain a devout trail-braker and I immediately adjust my driving style to that needed for Haldex on a PQ36 chassis. Refer to my primer on tire load transfer driving style specific to a Golf R and my story on an R32 newbie and a racing pro needing adjustment for insights.

      I'm not at all in agreement with any hype on how the Euro springs are like "night and day", "transforms the car" and any other subjective platitudes. Better? Yes, but not in the way described above and certainly not with the same metrics. For me, the slight reduction in tire load transfer due to a shorter spring/damper stroke (relative to the motion ratio aspect of the effective spring rate) and less chassis "floatiness" and "bounding" is what I appreciate ...hence the term "more buttoned down". For me, the car does not understeer any more or any less and rotates/turns in on demand very nicely when I trail brake ....and never accompanied by any ESC events either.

      Be very, very careful not to fall down the slippery slope of assuming one individuals positive perception of change to apply universally to everyone ...especially when an assessment of handling is purely subjective and reflects on a ton of variables that may or may not apply universally. Things like the fact that not everyone has the same driving skill level, the same understanding of handling dynamics or drives on the exact same roads/track on the same tires are far too often overlooked in terms of a quick dialog ....and as I said before, the Golf R does not react well to a ham-fisted driving style.

      Unlike the cars of fifteen or so years ago, today's modern chassis designs do not originate from the chassis down through the geometry and into the tires. The advanced computer modelling of today originates with the road plane through the tires (account for tire type and design), and then through the chassis geometry and chassis mass. As a result, understeer in all it's various iterations (turn in, steady state, corner exit and all transition phases in between) is much, much less a result of an inherent chassis calibration shortcomings compared to fifteen years ago. What these advancements reveal, quite brutally sometimes, is the level of driver skill and understanding of handling dynamics ...and especially tire load transfer. Remember that the chassis applies tire load transfer as a reaction to driver inputs, his/her driving style, and anyone who complains bitterly about understeer is more likey than not complaining about something he/she caused in the first place through fundamental driving errors ...with the No. 1 cause being excessive corner entry speeds.

      Now, I'm not implying that TLud is a lousy driver ...no, not at all and this is not a personal assault in any way. What I'm saying is that many that end up reading this thread that assume installation of Euro springs will "fix" some fundamental flaw in the US calibration, to prevent certain subjective handling characteristics will be very, very disappointed indeed when they install the springs themselves, ...but then continue to make the fundamental driver errors in both classic technique and the unique driving technique needed for Haldex PQ36 or any other performance AWD chassis.
      Thank you. That is EXACTLY the type of information I was looking and hoping for.

      BTW I autocrossed my R 2 weekends ago because my STC Scirocco 16V was in the shop getting a new rear axle. I found it very interesting that I never noticed the ESC activate. Also, the stock a/s tires certainly seemed to be the primary constraint on performance. Both of which validate points you've been making.

    6. Member AutoX Matt's Avatar
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      04-24-2012 07:16 PM #216
      Quote Originally Posted by TechEd View Post
      In hindsight, my hasty rebuttal to having words put in my mouth failed completely.
      If you're referring to my post, I apologize. I read your post multiple times then asked if I was drawing the correct conclusion. Thank you for sharing your actual thoughts and insights.

      Quote Originally Posted by TechEd View Post
      The sad part is, because many choose to ignore (your, my) well-reasoned rationale, and refuse to embrace compromise management, the truth is that many readers will create their own hype ...so I suppose my friends that keep telling asking me "....why do you bother trying in the first place?" might have a point.
      You'll never educate everyone, but every one you do is a victory. I blame entertainment media for misleading people as to what it takes for engineers to create the various things they do; misrepresenting any technical activity, really. Also, people tend to hear what they want to hear; it's very hard to get something they don't want to hear through their head, especially when it's of a complicated and technical nature. However, if you don't try, you won't have any chance of educating anyone.

      Quote Originally Posted by TechEd View Post
      My experience from attempting long, broad scope, technical content posts is that fewer and fewer individuals here are capable of absorbing pragmatic, rational narratives. That’s why I’m considering shutting down my participation here completely.
      I would be saddened if you ceased your informative posts here; they are some of the most worthwhile material on this forum. Please don't give up.

      Quote Originally Posted by TechEd View Post
      Most times I’ve attempted a narrative that covers the broadest possible scope of a topic, it is either ignored because it’s “too long”, misunderstood or spun to assume a position that is the polar opposite of one’s ideology.
      I do have a critique or 2: 1) Sometimes your posts sound like you are talking down to the rest of us. 2) You sometimes get too technical in your explanations. If you want to educate people without SAE memberships, you have to write so they can understand you. I have an electrical / computer engineering education, am in my 3rd full autocross year, and have been reading the technical articles in enthusiast magazines for about 16 years; yet after re-reading some of your paragraphs 3 times I still don't understand exactly what it is you're saying.
      I'm trying to be helpful. I hope you don't take those comments as insults, as they are not meant that way.

    7. Member Lamfalus's Avatar
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      04-25-2012 07:01 AM #217
      Quote Originally Posted by TLud View Post
      It is fairly straightforward. I will say that it would be helpful to have someone showing you the ropes if it's your first time though (I remember my first time). Anyone can do it, but there are definitely a few tips to make it easier on yourself. Also, if you don't have the tools and don't anticipate doing this more than once, it's probably cheaper to have it done for you.
      More time effective sure, and depending on the individual probably money well spent. Not cheaper from a strictly dollar standpoint. The tools needed for this are not many (< $100 if you have NOTHING). Just a few sockets, a little spreader bit for the front hub carrier, and the most expensive part being the spring compressors which are < $50 from Harbor Freight. Though having an impact driver for a few parts really helps which you could probably borrow from a friend. I mean the rears are as easy as pouring piss out of a boot with the instructions on the heal. The front being struts are trickier but the hard part is just the spring compressing.

      Regarding alignment, it certainly ideal to check it as some of the slop could cause a little shifting but due to the nature of the suspension there's not much room to make it too far from stock even if you tried. Just saying if you really have no funds you could probably skip the alignment, especially in this case where you're only changing springs to ones that slightly drop static ride height.

      I'm just all for the DIY satisfaction, Zen and the Art of Motorcycle Maintenance and all that...

      When I finally get my car, I intend to start a series of crazy documented how-tos for all of the things I decide to put on the car for everyone's benefit. Still TBD for me if I want to do Euro springs or not. Now if only the car would show up!
      Last edited by Lamfalus; 04-26-2012 at 04:06 AM.
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    8. 04-25-2012 07:52 AM #218
      Quote Originally Posted by TechEd View Post
      ... demonize VWAG and VWGoA for what amounts very simply to be nothing more than a mandated US static height ...not some evil plot to withhold "the good stuff" from the US as so many want to perpetuate as the truth.
      Can someone tell me more about the static height requirement? What exactly is being measured, and required? I tried to research it the easy way, but did not get too far. Is bumper height the problem, or headlights?

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      04-25-2012 10:17 PM #219
      well it's official from BKS, they can't do better than $435 (well technically $433) .. this is shipped to your door. You guys think there's enough interest for 20+ peeps to get these?
      Previous: '95 Talon 2.0T | '98 GTI 2.0 | '00 Jetta 2.0 | '02 GLI 2.8 | '07 GTI 2.0T | '09 GLI 2.0T | '00 A4 2.8 | '04 R32 3.2 | '12 R 2.0T | '01 S4 2.7TT | Next ride coming up soon!!

    10. Member pierovw's Avatar
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      04-25-2012 10:49 PM #220
      Quote Originally Posted by brakedust View Post
      well it's official from BKS, they can't do better than $435 (well technically $433) .. this is shipped to your door. You guys think there's enough interest for 20+ peeps to get these?
      I think we could get interest but not sure if 20 people would jump in since many already have bought coils or bags... Count me in tho

    11. Member blefevre's Avatar
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      04-25-2012 10:55 PM #221
      I could swing the $433 shipped. Count me in.

    12. Member pierovw's Avatar
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      04-25-2012 11:16 PM #222
      Quote Originally Posted by brakedust View Post
      well it's official from BKS, they can't do better than $435 (well technically $433) .. this is shipped to your door. You guys think there's enough interest for 20+ peeps to get these?
      So what happens if we don't get 20 people and we get like 10 what would be the price?

    13. Member SCHWAB0's Avatar
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      04-25-2012 11:25 PM #223
      Quote Originally Posted by pierovw View Post
      So what happens if we don't get 20 people and we get like 10 what would be the price?
      The rates for the group buy differ, but shipping is the same @ $55 from EU to USA/Canada.

      4 Door Golf R:
      Front Spring (left & right)
      1K0 411115JG | $255 | $230 | $209
      Rear Spring (left & right)
      1K0 511115HS | $199 | $179 | $169

      2 Door Golf R:
      Front Spring (left & right)
      1K0 411105JP | $255 | $230 | $209
      Rear Spring (left & right)
      1K0 511115HT | $199 | $179 | $169

      The different price are as follows per their email:

      Number of orders for the pricing above
      | 5+ | 10+ | 20+

      Then we pay $464 shipped. Still about $150-180 less than buying from the dealer.
      Previous: '95 Talon 2.0T | '98 GTI 2.0 | '00 Jetta 2.0 | '02 GLI 2.8 | '07 GTI 2.0T | '09 GLI 2.0T | '00 A4 2.8 | '04 R32 3.2 | '12 R 2.0T | '01 S4 2.7TT | Next ride coming up soon!!

    14. 04-25-2012 11:29 PM #224
      I'd still be in too.

    15. Member pierovw's Avatar
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      04-25-2012 11:35 PM #225
      Quote Originally Posted by brakedust View Post
      The rates for the group buy differ, but shipping is the same @ $55 from EU to USA/Canada.

      4 Door Golf R:
      Front Spring (left & right)
      1K0 411115JG | $255 | $230 | $209
      Rear Spring (left & right)
      1K0 511115HS | $199 | $179 | $169

      2 Door Golf R:
      Front Spring (left & right)
      1K0 411105JP | $255 | $230 | $209
      Rear Spring (left & right)
      1K0 511115HT | $199 | $179 | $169

      The different price are as follows per their email:

      Number of orders for the pricing above
      | 5+ | 10+ | 20+

      Then we pay $464 shipped. Still about $150-180 less than buying from the dealer.
      Sounds good to me! At least we can get 10 for sureeee

      PS: Damn brakedust you are the king of group buys BKS should give you something for free

    16. Member .:R Driven's Avatar
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      04-25-2012 11:51 PM #226
      Quote Originally Posted by pierovw View Post
      Sounds good to me! At least we can get 10 for sureeee

      PS: Damn brakedust you are the king of group buys BKS should give you something for free
      Very tempted
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    17. Member SCHWAB0's Avatar
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      04-26-2012 12:24 AM #227
      Quote Originally Posted by pierovw View Post
      Sounds good to me! At least we can get 10 for sureeee

      PS: Damn brakedust you are the king of group buys BKS should give you something for free
      they have

      Wasn't expecting it but it was greatly appreciated. Christian and Robert are really cool guys over there. Plus, they're helping me brush up on my German at the same time.

      I will make a post on the other forums.
      Previous: '95 Talon 2.0T | '98 GTI 2.0 | '00 Jetta 2.0 | '02 GLI 2.8 | '07 GTI 2.0T | '09 GLI 2.0T | '00 A4 2.8 | '04 R32 3.2 | '12 R 2.0T | '01 S4 2.7TT | Next ride coming up soon!!

    18. Member pierovw's Avatar
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      04-26-2012 12:40 AM #228
      Quote Originally Posted by brakedust View Post
      they have

      Wasn't expecting it but it was greatly appreciated. Christian and Robert are really cool guys over there. Plus, they're helping me brush up on my German at the same time.

      I will make a post on the other forums.
      Spill the beans! What did you get?

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      04-26-2012 12:53 AM #229
      Quote Originally Posted by pierovw View Post
      Spill the beans! What did you get?
      PM'ed.

      Also, I've created the thread in the other forum so anyone ready to get these, hop on to golfmk6 forum and check it out.

      (I hope this is allowed, Mods if it's inappropriate ... let me know and I'll remove the reference )
      Previous: '95 Talon 2.0T | '98 GTI 2.0 | '00 Jetta 2.0 | '02 GLI 2.8 | '07 GTI 2.0T | '09 GLI 2.0T | '00 A4 2.8 | '04 R32 3.2 | '12 R 2.0T | '01 S4 2.7TT | Next ride coming up soon!!

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      04-26-2012 03:18 PM #230
      Previous: '95 Talon 2.0T | '98 GTI 2.0 | '00 Jetta 2.0 | '02 GLI 2.8 | '07 GTI 2.0T | '09 GLI 2.0T | '00 A4 2.8 | '04 R32 3.2 | '12 R 2.0T | '01 S4 2.7TT | Next ride coming up soon!!

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      04-26-2012 03:27 PM #231
      Quote Originally Posted by brakedust View Post

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      04-29-2012 04:37 PM #232
      TLud, got any new pics of the car? Curious to see how it's looking now that the springs have been on for a few weeks.

    23. 04-29-2012 04:43 PM #233
      Quote Originally Posted by UncannySkill View Post
      TLud, got any new pics of the car? Curious to see how it's looking now that the springs have been on for a few weeks.
      THIS

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      04-29-2012 05:58 PM #234
      I would have thought that there would be at least 5-10 guys eager to get these but apparently not ...
      Previous: '95 Talon 2.0T | '98 GTI 2.0 | '00 Jetta 2.0 | '02 GLI 2.8 | '07 GTI 2.0T | '09 GLI 2.0T | '00 A4 2.8 | '04 R32 3.2 | '12 R 2.0T | '01 S4 2.7TT | Next ride coming up soon!!

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      04-29-2012 08:41 PM #235
      Quote Originally Posted by UncannySkill View Post
      TLud, got any new pics of the car? Curious to see how it's looking now that the springs have been on for a few weeks.
      Same X382872717773881
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      04-29-2012 08:49 PM #236
      Quote Originally Posted by UncannySkill View Post
      TLud, got any new pics of the car? Curious to see how it's looking now that the springs have been on for a few weeks.
      Quote Originally Posted by Lent53 View Post
      THIS
      Quote Originally Posted by droopy1592 View Post
      Same X382872717773881
      Alright, alright. I'll take some more in the next day or two.

      I wish I had brought my camera today when I met up with Trackhead (cool dude). When I first got them put on, the Euro-spec R springs with the 19" wheels and 235/35 tires seemed to have a pretty subtle effect on wheel gap, but seeing it side-by-side with Trackhead's stock wheels and suspension, it was a pretty dramatic difference. I apologize for not taking any side-by-side pics when I had the chance.
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      04-29-2012 11:01 PM #237
      you will get more people convinced to buy
      Previous: '95 Talon 2.0T | '98 GTI 2.0 | '00 Jetta 2.0 | '02 GLI 2.8 | '07 GTI 2.0T | '09 GLI 2.0T | '00 A4 2.8 | '04 R32 3.2 | '12 R 2.0T | '01 S4 2.7TT | Next ride coming up soon!!

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      04-30-2012 07:59 AM #238
      Quote Originally Posted by brakedust View Post
      I would have thought that there would be at least 5-10 guys eager to get these but apparently not ...
      I'm in. I've replied in the group buy thread.

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      04-30-2012 08:20 AM #239
      Count me in. Please provide instructions on how to pay.

      Thanks.

    30. Junior Member patrickj's Avatar
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      04-30-2012 08:32 AM #240
      Quote Originally Posted by TLud View Post
      Geez, for those prices, I'd do it for you.

      Quotes like that tell me that either they don't know what they're doing or they're taking advantage of you. Either way, no bueno.
      Any reasonable installation prices in the N. VA/DC/MD area? I don't like how my R feels somewhat floaty/spongy on hard cornering.

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      04-30-2012 08:39 AM #241
      Quote Originally Posted by TLud View Post
      Alright, alright. I'll take some more in the next day or two.

      I wish I had brought my camera today when I met up with Trackhead (cool dude). When I first got them put on, the Euro-spec R springs with the 19" wheels and 235/35 tires seemed to have a pretty subtle effect on wheel gap, but seeing it side-by-side with Trackhead's stock wheels and suspension, it was a pretty dramatic difference. I apologize for not taking any side-by-side pics when I had the chance.
      Thanks, TLud.

      I can attest the difference between TLud's car and mine is dramatic. It'sgoing to cost me...

      Make the group buy happen!

    32. 05-04-2012 09:55 PM #242
      TLud,
      Post up some updated pics!!

    33. Member pierovw's Avatar
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      05-04-2012 10:06 PM #243
      Quote Originally Posted by Lent53 View Post
      TLud,
      Post up some updated pics!!
      This. Please.

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      05-04-2012 11:43 PM #244
      I'm getting my happy @$$ up at 5:30 tomorrow morning to meet up with some other R owners to take some comparison pics.


      Sent from my iPhone 4S using Tapatalk
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    35. Member SCHWAB0's Avatar
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      05-05-2012 12:09 AM #245
      Quote Originally Posted by TLud View Post
      I'm getting my happy @$$ up at 5:30 tomorrow morning to meet up with some other R owners to take some comparison pics.


      Sent from my iPhone 4S using Tapatalk
      awesome, I have a feeling after this "little" photoshoot .. there will be a lot more peeps getting these. Myself included.
      Previous: '95 Talon 2.0T | '98 GTI 2.0 | '00 Jetta 2.0 | '02 GLI 2.8 | '07 GTI 2.0T | '09 GLI 2.0T | '00 A4 2.8 | '04 R32 3.2 | '12 R 2.0T | '01 S4 2.7TT | Next ride coming up soon!!

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