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    Thread: Euro R springs

    1. Member
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      02-24-2012 02:00 PM #26
      Quote Originally Posted by autofi View Post
      The difference in spring rates euro versus usa is ~ front 45lbs. lighter for euro and rear ~ 85 lbs. lighter for euro.This explains the ride height difference euro versus usa!
      autofi, you have supplied some very helpful information in this thread and elsewhere on the forum. Thank you for your contributions. If you know the differential in spring rates between the Euro and US springs, does that mean you also know the actual rates for both? If so, that would be extremely helpful to have. Also, do you know whether they are linear or progressive?

      Quote Originally Posted by 20VConvBug View Post
      You read my mind! I want to do the same thing when I get my R. I have ROW springs in my 911 and Bilstein HD coilovers (911s have been coming with coilovers from the factory for a while for corner balancing) and I noticed a nice drop although it is not slammed. On the other hand, I didn't want to do coilovers on the R like I did on my Bug because the ride is so harsh (pss9's), so I was thinking that ROW springs would be a good compromise.
      You and I are thinking alike.
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    2. Member Tailwagger's Avatar
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      02-24-2012 02:19 PM #27
      Quote Originally Posted by autofi View Post
      The difference in spring rates euro versus usa is ~ front 45lbs. lighter for euro and rear ~ 85 lbs. lighter for euro.This explains the ride height difference euro versus usa!
      Interesting. Just curious, do you happen to know if the spring rates the same for conventional versus mag shock equipped cars?
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    3. Member autofi's Avatar
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      02-24-2012 03:08 PM #28
      The only info I have are axle load numbers that VW gives out for each spring.As TechEd had confirmed the US springs have a higher spring load.I do not have actual spring rate measured off the car yet!

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      02-24-2012 03:27 PM #29
      Quote Originally Posted by autofi View Post
      The difference in spring rates euro versus usa is ~ front 45lbs. lighter for euro and rear ~ 85 lbs. lighter for euro.This explains the ride height difference euro versus usa!
      So switching to the euros will get you a softer ride along with the drop...

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      02-24-2012 03:54 PM #30
      Quote Originally Posted by webcrawlr View Post
      So switching to the euros will get you a softer ride along with the drop...
      Based on autofi's information and assuming they are both linear springs.
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    6. Member autofi's Avatar
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      02-24-2012 03:55 PM #31
      Taking into consideration MKV euro springs which I used on '07 Gti the coil was wound differently however the ride was the same.The big difference was the turn in,set time in the rear was direct with no delay and the ride height was also dropped 10 mm compared to US spec.

    7. Member autofi's Avatar
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      02-24-2012 03:59 PM #32
      Quote Originally Posted by TLud View Post
      Based on autofi's information and assuming they are both linear springs.
      The R in my mind went one step further in tuning the springs.As TLud explained the chassis is good right out of the box and I too am trying to avoid the euro spring but would be the only way to go.But those 10 mm sure make it look right!

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      02-24-2012 04:02 PM #33
      Quote Originally Posted by TLud View Post
      Based on autofi's information and assuming they are both linear springs.
      If they tested axle load I don't think it'd make a difference if it was progressive or not.

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      02-24-2012 04:04 PM #34
      Quote Originally Posted by webcrawlr View Post
      So switching to the euros will get you a softer ride along with the drop...
      If the springs are the same for the Mag Car and they would have to be softer, it would make sense in a way. VW would have to set the spring rate to the softer of the 2 programs so that the car would have the smoother ride with the Mag setup in Soft mode. In Sport mode, the Mag Shock would have to compensate to give it the stiffer ride. Makes sense in my mind at least - Please correct me if I am wrong.
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      02-24-2012 04:34 PM #35
      Quote Originally Posted by webcrawlr View Post
      If they tested axle load I don't think it'd make a difference if it was progressive or not.
      Yes, but that's different than "ride softness," which I guess I misunderstood what you meant.

      Also, I gave some more thought to the numbers that autofi posted. Based on that, and all other things in the suspension being equal (as we've been told they are), won't the Euro R have less roll resistance on the rear axle relative to the roll resistance on the front as compared to the US R? And wouldn't that result in more understeer on the Euro setup?
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      02-24-2012 04:36 PM #36
      I sense some confusion between spring length and spring rate.

      Volkswagen specifies the spring rate (in N/mm, or lbs/in for those inclined to use imperial measures) to match the axle masses of the car, depending on the equipment and the resultant mass (or weight, as we like to call it). This allows all the variations in the car to behave identically, regardless of equipment (and thus, weight).

      The length of the spring is not related to the spring rate. Hypothetically, a European Golf R with full equipment and a curb weight almost identical to a North American Golf R will have the very same spring rate as the NA vehicle. Howver, the length of the spring is different, and the North American Golf will have a slightly increased ride height.

      Assuming identical spring rates and that the small variation in ride height didn't change the geometry (i.e. roll centre) significantly, the driver will not be able to discern the difference between the European and the North American Golf R.

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      02-24-2012 04:46 PM #37
      Yes the euro rear spring has a thicker wire and slightly shorter length which confirms the different combos load versus height etc.

    13. Junior Member Rgento's Avatar
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      02-24-2012 05:05 PM #38
      Add me to the list of people who will be following with great interest. I'm absolutely in love with the perfection of the H&R Sport drop, but concerned about ill effects on handling, ride, and durability, in that order.....

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      02-24-2012 05:23 PM #39
      Quote Originally Posted by Rgento View Post
      Add me to the list of people who will be following with great interest. I'm absolutely in love with the perfection of the H&R Sport drop, but concerned about ill effects on handling, ride, and durability, in that order.....


      One thing I already know is that the Euro springs will NOT give the perfect ride height that I'm looking for. I think the H&R Sport drop looks just right; the Euro springs will not give me that. However, I'm absolutely unwilling to sacrifice the other things you mentioned to get that "perfect" ride height. IMO, you have to compromise on one or the other. I've gone both routes on previous vehicles. For the R, I choose to compromise on the aesthetics and stay close to OEM ride, handling and durability.

      I make this point again (and I'm not referring to you specifically here, Rgento) because I don't want anyone thinking that this is some kind of miracle solution and then they see pics and become disappointed that it doesn't give them as much drop as they would like.
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      02-24-2012 05:40 PM #40
      Quote Originally Posted by TLud View Post


      One thing I already know is that the Euro springs will NOT give the perfect ride height that I'm looking for. I think the H&R Sport drop looks just right; the Euro springs will not give me that. However, I'm absolutely unwilling to sacrifice the other things you mentioned to get that "perfect" ride height. IMO, you have to compromise on one or the other. I've gone both routes on previous vehicles. For the R, I choose to compromise on the aesthetics and stay close to OEM ride, handling and durability.

      I make this point again (and I'm not referring to you specifically here, Rgento) because I don't want anyone thinking that this is some kind of miracle solution and then they see pics and become disappointed that it doesn't give them as much drop as they would like.
      Ditto when you look at the front control arm it is basically parallel to the ground already so the 10 mm lower with the euro spring is at the limit before affecting roll center.

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      02-25-2012 02:12 AM #41
      I agree with autofi on the control arms. They don't look like they can tolerate the car being lowered too much more, or the angles would be pointed upward. This could possibly affect the ride much more than we may think. I agree with Tlud in wanting to get a better look without compromising the ride too much. The car rides pretty good right out of the box. The guys spent a lot of time in Germany perfecting the suspension so it would drive the way it does.

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      02-25-2012 02:57 AM #42
      Quote Originally Posted by Hitman View Post
      Tlud, on behalf of the rest of us Texans, bless you and good luck.. We are all counting on you.
      (mine's here now too, so I can legit say that)
      Oh heck yeah, you should have told me! Congrats man! I hope it wasn't a 2door! I see Zaino in our future.
      - ook

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      02-25-2012 03:01 AM #43
      Quote Originally Posted by TLud View Post
      We'll definitely have to meet up. I'm up in DFW fairly frequently (2 of my brothers live up there). When I first got the R, I too was initially a little underwhelmed by the power, having come from a much faster car with the grunt of a V8. Less than 500 miles later, I had my R flashed with APR's stage 1 tune, and I became a very happy man. Although I'll be going at least Stage 1+, I'd be completely content to keep my car as is.



      Great call about getting the spring rates analyzed. I know just the place. Draco, the largest custom spring manufacturer in the world is right here in Houston, and I'm sure they can help me out.





      Lol. You'll probably hear the results straight from me before I even post them up here.
      I just had my Stage 1+ done this weekend! I'm pretty excited to pick her up on monday and see how it feels. I't would be cool to meet up with a bunch of fellow Texans sometime! Hit me up with a PM if you are going to be in town.

      - ook

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      02-27-2012 08:43 PM #44
      Tlud, any updates when you will be getting your euro springs. We are in Dallas, still trying to figure out how to lower the car and maintain a good ride. We also independently posted how the larger tires of the 19s help decrease the fender gap above the tires by being a larger size. A .4 plus a .2 makes .6 inches in decreased gap, which is significant for the cost of the euro springs. Just enough to make it look like the euro pictures.

      You may want to look on the VWR UK website and read about their products. Interesting comments on their springs and why not to use even theirs on the 4 motion cars. They want us to use their coilovers?? Looks like they are working with APR as mentioned in earlier posts.

      http://www.volkswagenracing.co.uk/pa...spring-kit-22/

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      02-27-2012 08:50 PM #45
      Quote Originally Posted by ook View Post
      I just had my Stage 1+ done this weekend! I'm pretty excited to pick her up on monday and see how it feels. I't would be cool to meet up with a bunch of fellow Texans sometime! Hit me up with a PM if you are going to be in town.

      Lmk how your impressions, getting mine done in 2 weeks !

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      02-27-2012 08:54 PM #46
      Quote Originally Posted by ook View Post
      I just had my Stage 1+ done this weekend! I'm pretty excited to pick her up on monday and see how it feels. I't would be cool to meet up with a bunch of fellow Texans sometime! Hit me up with a PM if you are going to be in town.

      How do you like your Stage 1+?

      Have you had problems getting the grin off your face yet?
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      02-27-2012 09:02 PM #47
      Good thread! Won't find JR32 and his cronies in threads like these (contributing)

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      02-27-2012 09:17 PM #48
      Quote Originally Posted by ThisIsTheLifeForMe View Post
      Good thread! Won't find JR32 and his cronies in threads like these (contributing)
      Lol I find this amusing ! Soo true !

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      02-27-2012 09:47 PM #49
      Quote Originally Posted by ook View Post
      I just had my Stage 1+ done this weekend! I'm pretty excited to pick her up on monday and see how it feels. I't would be cool to meet up with a bunch of fellow Texans sometime! Hit me up with a PM if you are going to be in town.

      I'll let you know next time I'm in Dallas. Hopefully, by then I'll have wheels, springs, and Stage 1+.

      Quote Originally Posted by takmanR View Post
      Tlud, any updates when you will be getting your euro springs. We are in Dallas, still trying to figure out how to lower the car and maintain a good ride. We also independently posted how the larger tires of the 19s help decrease the fender gap above the tires by being a larger size. A .4 plus a .2 makes .6 inches in decreased gap, which is significant for the cost of the euro springs. Just enough to make it look like the euro pictures.

      You may want to look on the VWR UK website and read about their products. Interesting comments on their springs and why not to use even theirs on the 4 motion cars. They want us to use their coilovers?? Looks like they are working with APR as mentioned in earlier posts.

      http://www.volkswagenracing.co.uk/pa...spring-kit-22/
      Exactly. We're on the same page. The springs are coming from Germany, so it looks like second half of March. I will get them analyzed before putting them on my car; and then once on, I will get the stockers analyzed. I'll also take my own pictures and measurements of the suspension before and after.

      Thanks to the link to the VWR page. That page actually causes me to give them some credit. First, they published their spring specs, so that you actually know what you're putting on your car. Second, at the cost of additional sales, they specifically note not to use their springs on cars with 4motion. The warning was a little vague, however, so I think I will shoot them an e-mail with a few questions to get some more input.
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      02-28-2012 12:05 AM #50
      Quote Originally Posted by takmanR View Post
      Tlud, any updates when you will be getting your euro springs. We are in Dallas, still trying to figure out how to lower the car and maintain a good ride. We also independently posted how the larger tires of the 19s help decrease the fender gap above the tires by being a larger size. A .4 plus a .2 makes .6 inches in decreased gap, which is significant for the cost of the euro springs. Just enough to make it look like the euro pictures.

      You may want to look on the VWR UK website and read about their products. Interesting comments on their springs and why not to use even theirs on the 4 motion cars. They want us to use their coilovers?? Looks like they are working with APR as mentioned in earlier posts.

      http://www.volkswagenracing.co.uk/pa...spring-kit-22/
      Looks like I might be waiting for APR to make their announcement before I buy coils...

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