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    Thread: Test Drove a 135i...

    1. Member autofi's Avatar
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      02-24-2012 07:43 PM #26
      Quote Originally Posted by TLud View Post
      It's the "flame surfacing" that BMW has become famous for. On the 135, it's the upward curving crease at the bottom of the doors/sides of the car. The 135 is not what I'd call a sexy car, but it definitely gets the job done.
      Well I guess I'm stuck in the E30 M3 mode!That's a true sports sedan...

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      02-24-2012 07:50 PM #27
      The 1m I could have sex with. The new 135s I'd rather be a virgin.
      In many ways then this car is like herpes. Great fun catching it but not so much fun living with it every day. - Jeremy Clarkson

    3. Member BRSomm's Avatar
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      02-24-2012 09:48 PM #28
      Quote Originally Posted by Runz View Post
      Wow, that was a mistake, that thing pull so strong. the DCT 7 speed was amazing, far superior to my current DSG (MKV GTi). I am now in a huge internal debate. As much i love a good manual I am addicted to the performance of a twin clutch car. Now the problem is the 10k difference in how I would build the 135i...
      I test drove one a couple of years ago. I tried to convince my son to amputate his legs at the knee but the selfish bugger won't.

      So, the 4 door R will have to do.

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      02-24-2012 10:31 PM #29
      Quote Originally Posted by autofi View Post
      Well I guess I'm stuck in the E30 M3 mode!That's a true sports sedan...
      sedan?
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    5. 02-25-2012 01:17 AM #30
      Quote Originally Posted by bradleyland View Post

      My 135i gets to 60 MPH so fast, and the chassis is so settled, that I don't feel like I can come even close to pushing it on public roads without being a lunatic menace. It's not that I consider the 135i a track car, or some kind of monster, it's just that it's a bit too much to push on the streets. I don't feel like I'm being safe. At the same time, it'd take some modification for this car to be lots of fun on the track. The suspension is somewhere north of street fun, but somewhere south of track ready. It's stuck in no-man's land between street fun and track fun.
      this is one of the best descriptions of a 135i that I have read. The car is in some ways too much for the street but not yet a capable track car.

      The 1M is basically a 135i turned into a track car. They took the 135i, added the power kit (from the 335is), threw on the M3 wishbones/control arms and subframe bushings, put in the M3 variable LSD and added a body kit and bigger wheels (ditching the crappy run flat tires)

      You could take a 135i and do some of those things to turn it into a very capable track car. Tune ($550-$1500), M3 wishbones and tension rods ($1000), M3 subframe bushings ($300), LSD ($3000-$4000). But you would just be better off putting the money into a 1M if you wanted to do all that. You could skip the LSD and turn the 135i into a good track car for only about $3-4k more.

      I am not expecting the Golf R to be a track ready car either. I expect it will be very much like the 135i in that is will be more than enough for the street but will need to be breathed on a bit if it is going to be used as a track car.

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      02-25-2012 03:19 AM #31
      Quote Originally Posted by Dutchmastr9 View Post
      sedan?
      Sedan technically does not refer to the number of doors, but rather to cars with a certain amount of rear seat room. Two-door sedans have B-pillars and flat roof-lines all the way back to the rear window (like the E30). You don't really see this design anymore, so the term "sedan" has become synonymous with 4-door passenger cars.
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      02-25-2012 09:52 AM #32
      Quote Originally Posted by TLud View Post
      Sedan technically does not refer to the number of doors, but rather to cars with a certain amount of rear seat room. Two-door sedans have B-pillars and flat roof-lines all the way back to the rear window (like the E30). You don't really see this design anymore, so the term "sedan" has become synonymous with 4-door passenger cars.
      well i did not know that.
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    8. Member Tailwagger's Avatar
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      02-25-2012 11:59 AM #33
      There was a time when BMW was dominated, if not run, by engineers who understood that numbers were the product of a great design, not a description of it. Personally, I think the thing that has plagued BMW over the past decade or so is that every series they build these days seemingly must have universal appeal. Each line has a version designed to attract everyone from trophy wives to knuckleheads that think they're buying a race car. That mission has diluted the focus of everything they produce. The switch from sport to luxury has seen the platforms grow fat and dumpy in the pursuit of broadening the market. Look at the M3. They build a fabulous small displacement, Ferrari-like V8 that revs to the sky and what do they wrap around it? 3700 pounds with a carbon fiber roof. Think about that for a second. Nearly two friggin tons and a CF roof. Is there anything more ridiculous? Its the automotive equivalent of Elvis ordering fourteen double cheeseburgers, three pepperoni pizzas with extra anchovies, seven large fries and a small diet coke.

      As a result, for my road cars, I've turned to VW. First the GTI and now the R. These are cars, IMO, that build upon a humble, but solid platform to the singular purpose of satisfying the sophisticated enthusiast's desire for a competent road car. We can argue about how successful they've been, but the philosophy that underlies the execution of these cars is clear, and to me, far more appealing than the muddled collage of purposes that underlie a modern BMW.
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      02-25-2012 02:07 PM #34
      Quote Originally Posted by Tailwagger View Post
      There was a time when BMW was dominated, if not run, by engineers who understood that numbers were the product of a great design, not a description of it. Personally, I think the thing that has plagued BMW over the past decade or so is that every series they build these days seemingly must have universal appeal. Each line has a version designed to attract everyone from trophy wives to knuckleheads that think they're buying a race car. That mission has diluted the focus of everything they produce. The switch from sport to luxury has seen the platforms grow fat and dumpy in the pursuit of broadening the market. Look at the M3. They build a fabulous small displacement, Ferrari-like V8 that revs to the sky and what do they wrap around it? 3700 pounds with a carbon fiber roof. Think about that for a second. Nearly two friggin tons and a CF roof. Is there anything more ridiculous? Its the automotive equivalent of Elvis ordering fourteen double cheeseburgers, three pepperoni pizzas with extra anchovies, seven large fries and a small diet coke.

      As a result, for my road cars, I've turned to VW. First the GTI and now the R. These are cars, IMO, that build upon a humble, but solid platform to the singular purpose of satisfying the sophisticated enthusiast's desire for a competent road car. We can argue about how successful they've been, but the philosophy that underlies the execution of these cars is clear, and to me, far more appealing than the muddled collage of purposes that underlie a modern BMW.
      While I agree wholeheartedly with your criticism of BMW, the Golf R is 3400 lbs, in a small car with a trunk that's 1 foot deep.

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      02-25-2012 03:04 PM #35
      Quote Originally Posted by Tailwagger View Post
      There was a time when BMW was dominated, if not run, by engineers who understood that numbers were the product of a great design, not a description of it. Personally, I think the thing that has plagued BMW over the past decade or so is that every series they build these days seemingly must have universal appeal. Each line has a version designed to attract everyone from trophy wives to knuckleheads that think they're buying a race car. That mission has diluted the focus of everything they produce. The switch from sport to luxury has seen the platforms grow fat and dumpy in the pursuit of broadening the market. Look at the M3. They build a fabulous small displacement, Ferrari-like V8 that revs to the sky and what do they wrap around it? 3700 pounds with a carbon fiber roof. Think about that for a second. Nearly two friggin tons and a CF roof. Is there anything more ridiculous? Its the automotive equivalent of Elvis ordering fourteen double cheeseburgers, three pepperoni pizzas with extra anchovies, seven large fries and a small diet coke.
      This is why I ordered my M3 with the moon roof. In for a penny, in for a pound.

      Quote Originally Posted by Dawg90 View Post
      While I agree wholeheartedly with your criticism of BMW, the Golf R is 3400 lbs, in a small car with a trunk that's 1 foot deep.
      Very true, but it feels SOOO much smaller and lighter than the M3.
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    11. Member droopy1592's Avatar
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      02-25-2012 03:40 PM #36
      Quote Originally Posted by Dawg90 View Post
      While I agree wholeheartedly with your criticism of BMW, the Golf R is 3400 lbs, in a small car with a trunk that's 1 foot deep.
      More like 3300 with a full tank.
      In many ways then this car is like herpes. Great fun catching it but not so much fun living with it every day. - Jeremy Clarkson

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      02-25-2012 05:17 PM #37
      Quote Originally Posted by TLud View Post
      Very true, but it feels SOOO much smaller and lighter than the M3.
      It's probably the short wheelbase.

      the thing I love about the Golf is that VW hasn't been caught up in the "let's make it bigger every generation" mentality that every other carmaker exhibits. It's why a 3 series is now the size of a stretch limo.

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      02-25-2012 05:44 PM #38
      Quote Originally Posted by Dawg90 View Post
      It's probably the short wheelbase.

      the thing I love about the Golf is that VW hasn't been caught up in the "let's make it bigger every generation" mentality that every other carmaker exhibits. It's why a 3 series is now the size of a stretch limo.
      Yea, the e90 is pretty much same size as the out going e60 chassis. I was told the e90 was easier to sit in rear seats then the e60. lol I don't know how the new F10 chassis compares to the E90.

    14. Member droopy1592's Avatar
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      02-25-2012 06:10 PM #39
      Quote Originally Posted by Boosted2003! View Post
      Yea, the e90 is pretty much same size as the out going e60 chassis. I was told the e90 was easier to sit in rear seats then the e60. lol I don't know how the new F10 chassis compares to the E90.
      It looks long. They even have a stretch version in the works for the Chinese market.


      I like that there's enough room in the back for tall people, and not extra.
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      02-25-2012 06:50 PM #40
      Quote Originally Posted by Tailwagger View Post
      ...for my road cars, I've turned to VW....These are cars, IMO, that build upon a humble, but solid platform to the singular purpose of satisfying the sophisticated enthusiast's desire for a competent road car...the philosophy that underlies the execution of these cars is clear, and to me, far more appealing than the muddled collage of purposes that underlie a modern BMW.
      Drove BMWs exclusively from '89-'07, was a huge enthusiast, and could not have said this better.

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      02-25-2012 06:55 PM #41
      Quote Originally Posted by Dawg90 View Post
      While I agree wholeheartedly with your criticism of BMW, the Golf R is 3400 lbs, in a small car with a trunk that's 1 foot deep.
      3300, possibly less, versus 3600 for the currently available 3xi. 14.8 cubes of cargo... aint one foot deep, nore like 2 and a half, but point taken. OTOH, its a hatch, the trunk is vertical. Regardless, once you get past the Mini or Elise, all modern cars, VW included, are way too heavy. Hopefully that's starting to reverse, but its going to be a while before we bring things back down to sub-Dusenberg levels.

      Regardless, I suffer no illusion that the R is perfect. As I've yet to live with one all I know is from reading, test driving TTs and two years of GTI ownership. I wont be able to comment on its true worth for several month yet. But AFAIC, the BMW I did business with is no more and those of us looking for a small, fun, sporty, well built practical four seater, forgetting about MINI, are forced to look elsewhere. The scary thing about that is there aren't many other places to look. I kiss the ground that, having largely ignored VW since I parted with my Wolfsburg edition Scirocco some 25 years ago, they are still around and capable of producing a car as interesting as fun as the GTI. I'm counting on the R to deliver that same level of fun sans the drawbacks of FWD. If BMW ever starts making the E30 M3 again and they certainly have a chance to do so with the new 4 cyl in a next gen 128, I'll take a look, but for now I'm not counting on it.
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      02-25-2012 09:23 PM #42
      Quote Originally Posted by Tailwagger View Post
      3300, possibly less, versus 3600 for the currently available 3xi. 14.8 cubes of cargo... aint one foot deep, nore like 2 and a half, but point taken. OTOH, its a hatch, the trunk is vertical. Regardless, once you get past the Mini or Elise, all modern cars, VW included, are way too heavy. Hopefully that's starting to reverse, but its going to be a while before we bring things back down to sub-Dusenberg levels.

      Regardless, I suffer no illusion that the R is perfect. As I've yet to live with one all I know is from reading, test driving TTs and two years of GTI ownership. I wont be able to comment on its true worth for several month yet. But AFAIC, the BMW I did business with is no more and those of us looking for a small, fun, sporty, well built practical four seater, forgetting about MINI, are forced to look elsewhere. The scary thing about that is there aren't many other places to look. I kiss the ground that, having largely ignored VW since I parted with my Wolfsburg edition Scirocco some 25 years ago, they are still around and capable of producing a car as interesting as fun as the GTI. I'm counting on the R to deliver that same level of fun sans the drawbacks of FWD. If BMW ever starts making the E30 M3 again and they certainly have a chance to do so with the new 4 cyl in a next gen 128, I'll take a look, but for now I'm not counting on it.
      I feel the same way, the 3 series has becomes less involving and special with each new generation. Even my E46 I feel is less involving, less raw than my E36 was. The newer cars certainly are wonderful cars, I love driving them, but I guess I could stomach $45k for a raw, focused driver's car, but can't stomach it for just a sporty luxury car. Only the M cars still appeal to me, but they're getting ridiculously expensive.

      I'd certainly take a Golf R over a new 3 series, but since I have one of the good older ones, it's not worth trading up. Unless they start discounting heavily at end of life, then it'll be too hard to pass up.

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      02-28-2012 01:33 AM #43
      Quote Originally Posted by Tailwagger View Post
      As a result, for my road cars, I've turned to VW. First the GTI and now the R. These are cars, IMO, that build upon a humble, but solid platform to the singular purpose of satisfying the sophisticated enthusiast's desire for a competent road car. We can argue about how successful they've been, but the philosophy that underlies the execution of these cars is clear, and to me, far more appealing than the muddled collage of purposes that underlie a modern BMW.
      +1 from another former BMW fanboi.

      Having grown up with BMWs, I had never never much cared for VWs until the MkV GTI came out and I test drove one on a lark. While being far from my ideal sports car, it really put me on notice regarding what VW is capable of. Basically, I could hardly design a better daily-driver myself. With the MKVI GTI and R, they just keep getting better.

      While having long been a premium brand with all the associated social baggage, a lot of BMWs used to be fairly modest machines --the E30 and E36 aren't flashy cars by design. Americans just decided that they were the thing to have if you needed to display your upward mobility. And the older 5- and 7- series were downright stately. BMW, in my opinion, has lost any hint of being a manufacturer of cars that are just honest driving machines. I guess that's one thing I really like about the Golf and most current VWs: They manage to come off as humble and sophisticated at the same time.

      My E36 requires a fair amount of regular upkeep and it doesn't even have the true Euro 'M' motor. I shudder at what the maintenance costs of a current BMW might be 15 years from now. I know BMW isn't designing cars for this market, as there is no profit in it, but it sort of strikes me as crass and lacking in engineering integrity to build a car that will basically become a maintenance time-bomb in 6 years.
      Last edited by Charlie84; 02-28-2012 at 01:35 AM.

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      02-28-2012 11:33 AM #44
      My local BMW just got a 2011 135i in, since it will be certified it will have a 6 year 100k mile warranty. It has about 8400 miles on it right now. Manual with the M sport and will be 3k less than the Golf R. I am going to go drive it today and see how it feels, but its very tempting.

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      02-29-2012 12:20 AM #45
      Quote Originally Posted by Runz View Post
      My local BMW just got a 2011 135i in, since it will be certified it will have a 6 year 100k mile warranty. It has about 8400 miles on it right now. Manual with the M sport and will be 3k less than the Golf R. I am going to go drive it today and see how it feels, but its very tempting.
      Would you please report back here after? I'll be very interested to hear what you have to say about the 135i compared to the R. I have my own predictions...

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      02-29-2012 02:14 PM #46
      My wife drives a 2008 135i. It's a fun car, but no where near as fun as my old M Coupe. The flat torque curve is a bit of a snooze, the lack of a limited slip is good for vaporizing the inside rear tire, and it does have a few rattles.

      If you want fast, easily tuneable and don't need awd, the 135i will do most things better than a Golf R, aside from allowing people into the rear seats with any ease, holding much stuff in the trunk and not demolishing rear tires.

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      02-29-2012 02:39 PM #47
      Quote Originally Posted by Charlie84 View Post
      Would you please report back here after? I'll be very interested to hear what you have to say about the 135i compared to the R. I have my own predictions...
      TLDR: I decided against it. I realized that for 3k less than the R i would be sacrificing a ton of features, a nice stereo, the ability to modify it for my own likes, and I would still be in a 2 door. The raw power from just a tune is a very alluring thing, but once you push the car out of a corner, it just peg legs.



      Performance: It was cool, been a while since I drove a stick and was nice to NOT stall the car once even with it being years. I also wound up taking 5-6 phone calls while test driving proving I can still balance the two things.

      The gearbox was VERY notched and I really didn't care for it at all. Felt like it had rubber bushings you had to squeeze the lever through to get to each gear. Great for not missing a gear, horrible for smooth daily driving. The car pulled very hard like all 300hp 3350lb cars should, and had tons of torque to get up a hill at 1k in first. It just didn't feel like me though, it felt like I was forcing performance from a platform that wasn't quite meant for it.


      Here is why:

      After a long exhausting process similar to Graycars I have decided to wait on my Golf R to be made and shipped here.

      My reasons are pretty simple, I want something that is tunable and gets good gas mileage while holding 4 people comfortably and still has a nice interior.

      The interior threw both the STi and Evo out immediately as nice as they are.

      That really only left an S4 or 135/335 in my price range. The M3 is out due to being a high revving V8 with no balls down low for daily driving fun.

      I ruled out the S4 due to weight, same thing with the 335i, so basically down to 4 passenger vehicles of 3400lbs or less.

      The 135 was thrown out last night because of the lack of being able to make it mine. The one I looked at had the base base stereo that SUCKED horribly. Highs were crackly, lows were bottoming out at interstate window down level. When I started researching changing the stereo out in it I found that it was a PITA and a half to change out. That is when I came the realization I wish I had had a few weeks ago.

      The VW will be mine, the modifications, the management, care and everything else can be done by me. The BMW is a car that while you can modify it your not going to get very far before its just like someone else's. In the R I can put w/e stereo I want, and still use my steering wheel controls, I can change and add things as i like. While this isn't a deal breaker it ultimately is something that is very important to me. I felt like in the BMW I would basically chip it and that would be it, maybe some suspension and wheels, where in the VW I could make it a power house down the road if I wanted to. I dont doubt you could do that same to the BMW but to what cost? Valvetronic is cool and scary.

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      02-29-2012 02:50 PM #48
      Glad you figured out which car will fit you the best.

      I agree with a lot of what you said, but this statement just made me lol:

      Quote Originally Posted by Runz View Post
      The M3 is out due to being a high revving V8 with no balls down low for daily driving fun.
      Based on that statement, I'd bet you dollars to donuts that you didn't actually drive the M3. Yes, it has a stratospheric redline and power peaks higher in the rev range, but it still has an awesome amount of power down low, and an amazingly flat torque curve that stretches from end to end of its 8500 rpm rev range. Trust me, it's a beautiful thing. There are downsides to the M3 as a daily driver, but that is not one of them.

      If you did drive the M3 and think it lacks balls down low, then I'm sorry to say, but you'll hate the R.
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      02-29-2012 02:52 PM #49
      Seems like the same decision I'm leaning towards. The functionality of the 5dr R is making up for any drawbacks. Plus, everyone has a BMW (including my old car, and my wife's current car). I miss the rareness of my M Coupe, and while the 1er is semi-rare, they're still all over the place. The R just strikes a really good balance of my current wants.

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      02-29-2012 03:35 PM #50
      Quote Originally Posted by TLud View Post
      Glad you figured out which car will fit you the best.

      I agree with a lot of what you said, but this statement just made me lol:



      Based on that statement, I'd bet you dollars to donuts that you didn't actually drive the M3. Yes, it has a stratospheric redline and power peaks higher in the rev range, but it still has an awesome amount of power down low, and an amazingly flat torque curve that stretches from end to end of its 8500 rpm rev range. Trust me, it's a beautiful thing. There are downsides to the M3 as a daily driver, but that is not one of them.

      If you did drive the M3 and think it lacks balls down low, then I'm sorry to say, but you'll hate the R.
      I drove the grey one at BMW of Chattanooga with the DCT, feel free to look it up.

      I would imagine with a manual they are far more fun, however sub 3k RPM it was terrible. Granted I was also 2 up in the car so about 4-500 in passengers with me.

      I am not saying it was horrible, or didn't pull very hard at the higher rev ranges.

      With that being said, i will race ANY stock M3 in a straight line shifting at 4k vs my GTi shifting at 4k. It pulls harder and stronger, no question. Regardless its 3800lbs and when I threw it into a corner I still could feel that, even with its immense grip.
      Last edited by Runz; 02-29-2012 at 03:47 PM.

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