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    Thread: 87 vs 93 octane

    1. Junior Member Zoolook_'s Avatar
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      03-22-2012 02:31 PM #26
      Quote Originally Posted by TylerO28 View Post
      Search the European car article about it. Its been dyno proven to gain. And it gains incredibly well considering its only a few knocks higher. Ask anyone who's been here longer than a month and we all have seen and read the article. Not trying to bash, but I am trying to teach.
      We have been here a while and every once in a great while someone doesn't know the information pertaining to their comments... So we try to teach. An emoticon just shows our frustration with lack of knowledge. I'll dig it up if you'd like to be learned up real Nice! Grammatical error? Yup!
      Right, because how long someone has been a member of this forum (and the number of posts as well I suppose) is directly correlated to their knowledge of engineering. Gimme a break...

      I read the European car article about it (the Jetta they tested) and it's compelling I'll admit, which is exactly why I am open minded about it and will definitely try it out.

    2. Member TylerO28's Avatar
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      03-22-2012 02:34 PM #27
      Lol I'll be taking formal apologies, you're rights and I was wrongs via pay pal money transfers....
      god i love my car. it may not be fast, but it's crazy fun!



      C2 stage 2 TURBO!!! ACHTUNG!!! 2.5liter 5cylinder contents under pressure!!!

    3. Member thygreyt's Avatar
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      03-22-2012 02:38 PM #28
      Quote Originally Posted by Zoolook_ View Post
      Right, because how long someone has been a member of this forum (and the number of posts as well I suppose) is directly correlated to their knowledge of engineering. Gimme a break...

      I read the European car article about it (the Jetta they tested) and it's compelling I'll admit, which is exactly why I am open minded about it and will definitely try it out.
      dude, engineering knowledge? you are over complicating things.

      and a funny fact: in Engineering school, when you are in design classes, rule number one is: make it simple, stupid!

    4. Member thygreyt's Avatar
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      03-22-2012 02:43 PM #29
      so, lets make this simple:

      the engine adjusts timing based on how the sensors reading the engine's performance.

      if the car were to advance the timing, then Knock would occur, and thats not good. when the engine reduces timing, you lose power.

      with 93 oct fuel (less prone to knocking) (read what octane means) the engine can safely run better timing, which nets in better engine performance.

      with Higher RPMs, the engine gets hotter, which could result in pre-detonation. again, better fuel= better performance.

      simple.

    5. Junior Member Zoolook_'s Avatar
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      03-22-2012 02:44 PM #30
      Quote Originally Posted by TylerO28 View Post
      Lol I'll be taking formal apologies, you're rights and I was wrongs via pay pal money transfers....
      I'll be driving by your area next week... maybe I'll buy you a beer!

    6. Junior Member Zoolook_'s Avatar
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      03-22-2012 02:58 PM #31
      Quote Originally Posted by thygreyt View Post
      so, lets make this simple:

      the engine adjusts timing based on how the sensors reading the engine's performance.

      if the car were to advance the timing, then Knock would occur, and thats not good. when the engine reduces timing, you lose power.

      with 93 oct fuel (less prone to knocking) (read what octane means) the engine can safely run better timing, which nets in better engine performance.

      with Higher RPMs, the engine gets hotter, which could result in pre-detonation. again, better fuel= better performance.

      simple.

      That makes sense.

    7. Member thygreyt's Avatar
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      03-22-2012 03:00 PM #32
      thats the simple part. you can actually drive and measure/compare the readings of the different sensors and the different fuels.

      again, on the 2.5L speficially, 93 does a difference.

    8. Junior Member Zoolook_'s Avatar
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      03-22-2012 03:09 PM #33
      Quote Originally Posted by thygreyt View Post
      thats the simple part. you can actually drive and measure/compare the readings of the different sensors and the different fuels.

      again, on the 2.5L speficially, 93 does a difference.
      I have read in another forum that to really take advantage of 93 octane, you need to flash the ECU. Do you think that's true?

    9. Member thygreyt's Avatar
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      03-22-2012 03:12 PM #34
      yes.

      but also, flashing the ECU does more than just adjust timing. it actually changes a lot of the drivebility, optiomizes AFR, etc.

      the ecu can only adjust so much... so you will see a bennefit with 93, but to get 100 of the bennefit you will need the sw flash

    10. 03-22-2012 03:21 PM #35
      Quote Originally Posted by Zoolook_ View Post
      P.S. given that the posts trying to persuade me otherwise contain an abundance of "LOLs", grammatical errors and emoticons, I have my doubts as to whether the posters are even old enough to drive... just sayin'
      You're right...I know nothing and have zero experience within the automotive performance aftermarket or this VAG space ...especially because I used LOL and emoticons.

      Quote Originally Posted by thygreyt View Post
      lastly, johhnyDrama has done LOTS in the dub world. the fact that you know nothing about it means nothing.

      just saying.

    11. 03-22-2012 03:27 PM #36
      Quote Originally Posted by thygreyt View Post
      yes.

      but also, flashing the ECU does more than just adjust timing. it actually changes a lot of the drivebility, optiomizes AFR, etc.

      the ecu can only adjust so much... so you will see a bennefit with 93, but to get 100 of the bennefit you will need the sw flash
      And that being said you will need a sw flash to get the full benefits of whatever fuel you are using in a 2.5. Not just 93oct.

    12. Junior Member Zoolook_'s Avatar
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      03-22-2012 03:49 PM #37
      Quote Originally Posted by JohnnyDrama View Post
      You're right...I know nothing and have zero experience within the automotive performance aftermarket or this VAG space ...especially because I used LOL and emoticons.
      I know how you feel... I also know nothing because I have a low post-count. If this thread goes on for much longer though, I'll be an expert and be able to build my own dragster from a potato and a piece of string.

    13. Member thygreyt's Avatar
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      03-22-2012 03:55 PM #38
      Quote Originally Posted by Zoolook_ View Post
      I know how you feel... I also know nothing because I have a low post-count. If this thread goes on for much longer though, I'll be an expert and be able to build my own dragster from a potato and a piece of string.
      the thing isnt post count or anything else.

      again, it was the comments, assumptions and knowledge what made some people look bad.

    14. Member TylerO28's Avatar
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      03-22-2012 04:02 PM #39
      I could care less about post count. Ours just frustrating to see the only safe haven in vortex (2.5 forum) get new people asking the same questions over and over.it want ra knock on you by any means. We all get along in here. Its just when someone newer comes along and argues with us about something we've all tested on our own... You're totally welcome to be a part of our group.its just the argumentative replies...
      god i love my car. it may not be fast, but it's crazy fun!



      C2 stage 2 TURBO!!! ACHTUNG!!! 2.5liter 5cylinder contents under pressure!!!

    15. Junior Member Zoolook_'s Avatar
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      03-22-2012 05:33 PM #40
      Quote Originally Posted by TylerO28 View Post
      I could care less about post count. Ours just frustrating to see the only safe haven in vortex (2.5 forum) get new people asking the same questions over and over.it want ra knock on you by any means. We all get along in here. Its just when someone newer comes along and argues with us about something we've all tested on our own... You're totally welcome to be a part of our group.its just the argumentative replies...
      No worries.

    16. Member thygreyt's Avatar
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      03-22-2012 05:38 PM #41
      Most of the time we are all properly behaved people... When we feel the need to rant and internet argue, we venture onto the mkv forums!! Lol

      Sent from my HTC Sensation using Tapatalk

    17. Junior Member Zoolook_'s Avatar
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      03-22-2012 05:43 PM #42
      Quote Originally Posted by thygreyt View Post
      Most of the time we are all properly behaved people... When we feel the need to rant and internet argue, we venture onto the mkv forums!! Lol
      I'm heading right there... although I have a MKVI, so they might not like that!

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      03-22-2012 08:35 PM #43
      Im pretty sure the manual recommends premium. I run 93 all the time and I do notice a difference going to 87. I also put down 163whp with just carbonio and 2.25 inch magnaflow and of course 93 octane fuel. And remember the premium fuel has more additives which is what you want(helps clean out injectors etc.
      Last edited by jaja123; 03-22-2012 at 08:38 PM.
      5 cylinder FTW

    19. Banner Advertiser Jefnes3's Avatar
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      03-23-2012 08:58 AM #44
      Quote Originally Posted by Zoolook_ View Post
      Can you explain, mechanically, how an engine not designed or tuned to take advantage of what is effectively knock resistance, can magically get more power from fuel that has no more power?

      Easy.

      The 2.5L engine as setup in stock form is knock limited.
      I.e. even the stock ignition maps could be considered 'aggressive' when using 87 octane.

      So: how is more power made running 93?
      (Log this with vag-com and you will see)
      on 87 knock control will pull timing.
      on 93 knock control will pull less/none.

      How to test this yourself:
      Get vag-com
      log blocks 010, 020
      do a 'street dyno' run: ~under 2000 to redline run
      compare the data between the two fuels.

      If you see ZERO knock retard on 87 for the entire run, then going to 93 will gain near nothing.


      -Jeffrey Atwood
      UnitedMotorsport.net
      Email UnitedMotorsport
      Funny how launch control and NLS were gimmicks when Matt bought it to med9.
      Now others are using it to make people think the sun shines out of their 4$$.

    20. Member thygreyt's Avatar
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      03-23-2012 09:12 AM #45
      Quote Originally Posted by Jefnes3 View Post
      Easy.

      The 2.5L engine as setup in stock form is knock limited.
      I.e. even the stock ignition maps could be considered 'aggressive' when using 87 octane.

      So: how is more power made running 93?
      (Log this with vag-com and you will see)
      on 87 knock control will pull timing.
      on 93 knock control will pull less/none.

      How to test this yourself:
      Get vag-com
      log blocks 010, 020
      do a 'street dyno' run: ~under 2000 to redline run
      compare the data between the two fuels.

      If you see ZERO knock retard on 87 for the entire run, then going to 93 will gain near nothing.


      -Jeffrey Atwood

    21. Junior Member
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      07-11-2012 07:48 AM #46
      I put 93 in my car yesterday for the first time, and indeed there is a noticeable change in acceleration. I don't really know a whole lot about mechanical numbers or anything, but I do know my stock 2.5L Jetta does run differently in 93 also.
      Last edited by GTIarist; 07-11-2012 at 07:51 AM.

    22. Member A1an's Avatar
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      07-12-2012 01:54 PM #47
      Glad to see this old thread was bumped. Interesting information.

    23. Member
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      07-12-2012 07:53 PM #48
      I don't think Ive ever seen 93 octane before. Only 87,89,91. What sort of special gas station carries such a thing?

    24. Member 02Jetta's Avatar
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      07-12-2012 09:11 PM #49
      East coast gas stations, from what I see carries 87 89 93 octanes. We dont have 91 octanes in NJ/NY area

    25. Member
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      07-12-2012 09:28 PM #50
      Gotcha. Yeah I just googled it too, doesn't look like its available at all in California.

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