intermediate shaft bearings

[mase16v]

ok i have an 89 jetta with a 1.6 tdi motor out of an 85 in it.....its lost oil pressure...when fully warmed up its gettin 15-20 psi on the highway and idling its getting 4-5 oil psi....i dont wanna blow it up lol...the guy before me replaced all the bottom end parts..still didnt fix it...then he put a top of the line oil pump on it...still the same...changed the oil sensors out...still the same....we both think the only thing it can be is the intermediate shaft bearings?.....went down to the local vw shop and they laughed and said, pretty much im screwed if its that, because no one changes those anymore and its hard to do i guess?.....but the car still runs and drives awsome, ive been listening to it and it sounds normal...the 5-psi just has me paranoid.....i have a reg 1.6 diesel block im probably gonna switch everything over on, just want some opinions on this?

[rdezsofi]

Search under Intermediate Shaft Bearing Tool here on Vortex. I've made and sold about 37 of these so far, about half Vortex people and half VW/Audi shops. (Who are often on the Vortex as well!)

It's not a difficult thing to change the bearings, and the bearings are readily available. I can have a tool made up for you by next weekend I think, assuming the wife doesn't hit me with even more projects

Do the search, read up on it. Then let me know if you want to order one.

Here's how it mounts:


Here's the latest version I make:




Dies on the lathe:

[mase16v]

sent ya a pm...ill take one...thanks for the help

[crsmp5]

they never made a 1.6tdi...

[rdezsofi]

they never made a 1.6tdi...

ACTUALLY......that is not quite correct Although the engine in question is no doubt a 1.6TD, Volkswagen has in fact been in the business of making 1.6TDI engines for a few years now....

1.6 R4 16v TDI CR 55-85kWidentification
engine configuration & engine displacement
inline four-cylinder (R4/I4) Turbocharged Direct Injection (TDI) turbodiesel; 1,598 cubic centimetres (97.5 cu in); bore x stroke: 79.5 by 80.5 millimetres (3.13 in × 3.17 in), stroke ratio: 0.99:1 - 'square engine', 399.5 cc per cylinder, compression ratio: 16.5:1
cylinder block & crankcase
grey cast iron; five main bearings, die-forged steel crankshaft
cylinder head & valvetrain
cast aluminium alloy; four valves per cylinder, 16 valves total, double overhead camshaft (DOHC)
aspiration
turbocharger, intercooler, water-cooled exhaust gas recirculation (EGR)
fuel system & engine management
common rail (CR) direct injection (DI) with eight-nozzle output piezo element injectors, rail pressure up to 1,600 bars (23,210 psi), European EU5 emissions standard
DIN-rated motive power & torque outputs, ID codes
55 kilowatts (75 PS; 74 bhp) @ 4,000 rpm; 195 newton metres (144 ft·lbf) @ 1,500-2,500 rpm — CAYA (Polo and Fabia only)
66 kilowatts (90 PS; 89 bhp) @ 4,200 rpm; 230 newton metres (170 ft·lbf) @ 1,500-2,500 rpm — CAYB
75 kilowatts (102 PS; 101 bhp) @ 4,400 rpm; 250 newton metres (184 ft·lbf) @ 1,500-2,500 rpm — CAYD (Caddy only)
77 kilowatts (105 PS; 103 bhp) @ 4,400 rpm; 250 newton metres (184 ft·lbf) @ 1,500-2,500 rpm — CAYC
85 kilowatts (116 PS; 114 bhp) @ 4,400 rpm; 250 newton metres (184 ft·lbf) @ 2,000-2,500 rpm — CEKA (Mexico only)[citation needed]
applications
SEAT Ibiza Mk4, SEAT Ibiza Mk5, SEAT León Mk2, SEAT Altea, SEAT Altea XL, Škoda Fabia Mk2, Škoda Octavia Mk2, Volkswagen Polo Mk5, Volkswagen Golf Mk6, Volkswagen Golf Plus, Volkswagen Golf Variant, Volkswagen Touran, Audi A1, Volkswagen Caddy
reference
"VW presents new 1.2 litre TSI and 1.6 litre TDI engines for Golf and Polo". WorldCarFans.com. Volkswagen AG. 13 May 2009. http://www.worldcarfans.com/10905131...-golf-and-polo. Retrieved 28 December 2009.

[Glegor]

ACTUALLY......that is not quite correct Although the engine in question is no doubt a 1.6TD, Volkswagen has in fact been in the business of making 1.6TDI engines for a few years now....

1.6 R4 16v TDI CR 55-85kWidentification
engine configuration & engine displacement
inline four-cylinder (R4/I4) Turbocharged Direct Injection (TDI) turbodiesel; 1,598 cubic centimetres (97.5 cu in); bore x stroke: 79.5 by 80.5 millimetres (3.13 in × 3.17 in), stroke ratio: 0.99:1 - 'square engine', 399.5 cc per cylinder, compression ratio: 16.5:1
cylinder block & crankcase
grey cast iron; five main bearings, die-forged steel crankshaft
cylinder head & valvetrain
cast aluminium alloy; four valves per cylinder, 16 valves total, double overhead camshaft (DOHC)
aspiration
turbocharger, intercooler, water-cooled exhaust gas recirculation (EGR)
fuel system & engine management
common rail (CR) direct injection (DI) with eight-nozzle output piezo element injectors, rail pressure up to 1,600 bars (23,210 psi), European EU5 emissions standard
DIN-rated motive power & torque outputs, ID codes
55 kilowatts (75 PS; 74 bhp) @ 4,000 rpm; 195 newton metres (144 ft·lbf) @ 1,500-2,500 rpm — CAYA (Polo and Fabia only)
66 kilowatts (90 PS; 89 bhp) @ 4,200 rpm; 230 newton metres (170 ft·lbf) @ 1,500-2,500 rpm — CAYB
75 kilowatts (102 PS; 101 bhp) @ 4,400 rpm; 250 newton metres (184 ft·lbf) @ 1,500-2,500 rpm — CAYD (Caddy only)
77 kilowatts (105 PS; 103 bhp) @ 4,400 rpm; 250 newton metres (184 ft·lbf) @ 1,500-2,500 rpm — CAYC
85 kilowatts (116 PS; 114 bhp) @ 4,400 rpm; 250 newton metres (184 ft·lbf) @ 2,000-2,500 rpm — CEKA (Mexico only)[citation needed]
applications
SEAT Ibiza Mk4, SEAT Ibiza Mk5, SEAT León Mk2, SEAT Altea, SEAT Altea XL, Škoda Fabia Mk2, Škoda Octavia Mk2, Volkswagen Polo Mk5, Volkswagen Golf Mk6, Volkswagen Golf Plus, Volkswagen Golf Variant, Volkswagen Touran, Audi A1, Volkswagen Caddy
reference
"VW presents new 1.2 litre TSI and 1.6 litre TDI engines for Golf and Polo". WorldCarFans.com. Volkswagen AG. 13 May 2009. http://www.worldcarfans.com/10905131...-golf-and-polo. Retrieved 28 December 2009.

ok, well were not in europe.. polo was never available on this side of the pond.

and VW never made a 1.6 TDi until more recently..

talking about an 85 Jetta TD.. they never made a TDI that old..

if its older than 96, its probably not a TDI..

and if its in europe, then anything is possible..

[antichristonwheels]

What a bunch of losers at your local dealership. With the engine out it is not bad. The problem is getting the shaft out with the mill still inside the car. My local shop has one of those tools and it is "the bomb." He gets lots of customers because of the same type of antics at local dealerships.

[rdezsofi]

My local dealership bought 2 from me. The VW service book suggests replacing the block if the intermediate shaft bearings are worn......the other option was to remove the engine, strip the engine down to the bare block, and send it off to a machine shop where....hopefully.....they wouldn't screw it up. (With the dealer labor expense, that comes out to the price of a short block by the way.) They don't have anything in their service schedule to describe using the tool, so they charge hourly for it. A hell of a lot cheaper for their customers.

As for the 1.6tdi 'not counting' as it's in Europe.......not available here........you can in fact order one (The engine) over the internet, as easy as ordering a set of glow plugs from GAP. I just don't know what you'd put it in.....computer, electronics, engine mounts, etc would be unknown to us. To discount the engine because it's not imported here would be like someone in Romania declaring Ford or Chevy or Mopar never made anything bigger than a 3 liter engine.

[crsmp5]

the ONLY reason i said 1.6tdi does not exist is cause the OP said he had a 85 in his... well if he has no idea what a tdi is.. then i worry.. may be out of his ability if he does not know what a idi is vs a tdi.. his "knowledge/search" sux balls IMO and he really needs to do more reserch on this JOB let alone what he has..


in a mk2 all you have to do is unbolt the rear engine mount from the block.. it will drop down enough to slide the shaft out... on a mk1 you gotta make a hole.. ive had to do both in car many years ago.. how i know...

[rdezsofi]

I never tried that trick with just removing the rear engine mount......damn, I always took the front one off as well. I'll have to try that one next time.

[8gti16valve6]

If the engine is running, so is the oil pump, at the same rpm, I know, gear ratios change the actual speed but... How would the bearings change the oil pressure? I would check the oil pump, you did not personally install it, and check oil gallys near the pump...

[rdezsofi]

How do the bearings affect oil pressure? Simple.....when the clearance becomes too large due to excessive wear of the bearing, or the shaft riding in the bearing, or both.....oil pours out and pressure is reduced.

A thicker oil slows this bleeding off for a while. A thinner oil will bleed off faster, resulting in lower oil pressure.

Remember, there are tight clearances at all the bearings......this keeps the pressure up. It just takes one to have excessive clearance to bleed off too much pressure, and slowly the other bearings are starved for oil.

Once one starts to go, if left too long.....the furthest bearing from the oil supply will be the next one to go....

[mase16v]

ive had alot of gas vw's...just getting into the whole diesel thing....it has a turbo and its diesel...maybe they didnt call it "tdi" back then..idk

[rdezsofi]

ive had alot of gas vw's...just getting into the whole diesel thing....it has a turbo and its diesel...maybe they didnt call it "tdi" back then..idk

It was an IDI back then....'indirect injected'.......God forbid to annoy the hard core VW Gods, right? When you say it's an '80's, everyone knows what it is. here on the Vortex, there's always someone who requires you to cross your t's and dot the I's It's just the way it is for some reason.

You can get bashed for far, far less around here.......

[8v-of-fury]

ive had alot of gas vw's...just getting into the whole diesel thing....it has a turbo and its diesel...maybe they didnt call it "tdi" back then..idk

It is a Turbocharged Diesel yes, it is still an Indirect Injected Diesel. The newer Volkswagen diesels 97+ are Direct Injected Diesel. Yes they too are turbocharged, but that has nothing to do with the type of fuel injection.

There is no maybe.. The TDI name/brand was coined by Volkswagen in 1995 for its first TDI engine, the 1Z. Which debuted in 1996 in the Passat.

You sir, need to do some reading. Going at ANYTHING in life blind as a fkin bat is never a good idea.

[mase16v]

ahhh gotcha i will remeber from now on its just a "TD" lol...thanks for the tip

[8v-of-fury]

here on the Vortex, there's always someone who requires you to cross your t's and dot the I's It's just the way it is for some reason.

You must think though, we are giving advice through text.. to people who are going to trust what we say, and if we give them false information based on what they said.. they could seriously damage their engines.

So yeah, when it comes to siht like this.. crossing the t's and dotting the lower case j's is rather important.

[Tinker Toy]

I skimmed over the posts; did not see anything about gauge accuracy. Are you using a dash gauge? Get another gauge and check the oil pressure at the oil filter mount at idle and fast idle.

[rdezsofi]

Got your tool done, pic's below. Tried a new style on the T-Handle, as I was out of round stock....took some square stock and made it round, except for the end the handle slides through.
Stainless steel handle, steel thread insert in bottom of T-Handle piece, stainless steel risers for the cross piece, bronze bushing pressed in where the threaded section slides through the cross piece, stainless steel nuts and a bronze thrust washer to go under each of the nuts.

[rdezsofi]

The dies....

[damac2004]

do you need a tool like this if you have the engine broken down on a bench?

[rdezsofi]

No....you can use a press if the block is disassembled during a rebuild. The tool saves you the hassle of stripping down an engine to have a machine shop do it.

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I997 using Tapatalk

[steevz]

in a mk2 all you have to do is unbolt the rear engine mount from the block.. it will drop down enough to slide the shaft out...

That's how I changed my inner and outer bearings in the car a couple months ago. I homemade a tool and got a die made at a machine shop. Although it was a little tight, but still worked. For the outer I just used the IM shaft seal housing to push it in. There is lots of info on doing these out there, but rdezsofi's tool will make the job a piece of cake.

[rdezsofi]

I had an inquiry on just the dies....I do sell those for $60 + $5 shipping in the USA. Canada might be a couple dollars more for shipping. If you don't want the center threaded, then $55 + shipping.

If you have the motor apart and on the bench....it's a simple bearing change if you have a press. On the back side of the block/transmission end..... is a freeze plug identical to the 3 under the exhaust manifold.....only this one has no coolant behind it. It's an access hole to use a press for the rear bearing. Same part number, same freeze plug as the rest. But use some gasket sealer when putting a new one in, as you don't want an oil leak there.

Last time I checked, the ETKA doesn't even show it........but yes, it is identical to the other freeze plugs.

[t3crazy]

Okay, I think I need the tool!

Shoot me a PM with pricing and shipping to 99323..


Thanks!


Mike

[rdezsofi]

Okay, I think I need the tool!

Shoot me a PM with pricing and shipping to 99323..


Thanks!


Mike

PM sent....

[rdezsofi]

PM sent....

Hey Mike-

Here's a few pics of your tool....let me know if you still want it. The demand for these is almost enough that I might have to quit my day job!