Official ABA 16V stroker engine thread

[fredybender]

I know that a few of us are doing the ABA 16V with diesel crank.
ACOW, & Mr Whalen are some...

Lets get things started.

I will post more tech details on my set up soon, but just wanted to post this up for now.

The Beast:

[MikkiJayne]

That looks like it will be a lot of fun

[antichristonwheels]

I am running one in my Rabbit truck. Very similar looking to yours:

84mm JE 11:1
Collin head with the bigger intake valves, 276 schricks
Weber 45s

I strongly advise you to go ahead and fab up a breather setup and puke tank for the valve cover and another for the crankcase.

[fredybender]

My set up:
ABA block OBD1
Tdi crank machined / lightened to the about the same weight of a 2.0L gas
84.00 Wossner ABF pistons 12.5 CR machined to clear squish band (see above pic on lathe...)
(final compression ratio is now 14.5:1 Running on VP C12 only)
TT big vavle kit with springs & ti retainers
Mk5 light weight hydraulic lifters
Schrick 276-276 cams
central coolant port blocked off on head; only running the side port
Setrab oil cooler with Volvo thermo sandwich plate
Distributor delete
Running megajolt ignition with MAP for load : 3D programmable
EDIS 4 coil packs
TT race headers fully wrapped
3 Row aluminum Honda radiator
228 mm stage 5 clutch with 7 lbs chromoly flywheel
Clutch cable set-up with Eurovan actuator
Quaife 6 speed dog box with 4.17 F.D.
Real VWMS clutch type LSD
running with dual DCOE 45's : at the limit of the 45's

last year at the dyno, before any tuning, and when it was at 12.5:1 CR
216 WHP
178 Tq
I'm at the 4:02 mark

[Bubble Block]

I have been debating what motor set up I want to build over the next year or so for the S1. This seems like a very good option. I'd like to know a little more.

[fredybender]

I will be posting more deatils on the intricacies related to this recipe...
probably during the week end, with a tasty beverage next to my keyboard

[leon whalen]

a stroker thread.... great idea fredy

i will try and get some pics up of mine, here are the specs.

aba16v
95.5 crank lightened & balanced
9a pistons
full port/polish head multi angle valve job
276° schrick cams
hd valve springs
bbm fuel rail
t.t. lightweight adj. cam gear
aba ecu with t.t. aba16v chip
raceland 4-2-1 header
magnaflow highflow cat
t.t. 2.25 exhaust
4k trans with .71 5th gear ( i need an lsd)

[leon whalen]

old motor shot before new head

my daughter getting ready to run it down the strip

[JuniorWhalen]

I have been debating what motor set up I want to build over the next year or so for the S1. This seems like a very good option. I'd like to know a little more.

An S1 deserves an audi 5 cylinder 20v turbo

[fredybender]

When I was doing this engine last year, I tried getting information in the "monster useless sticky" for the ABA 16V thread...

Be serious, a sticky with hundeds of pages ? I took about 4 hours, trying to see if there was any pertinent information for what I was doing; The thread does have good information, but its worst than finding a needle in a haystack.

So my point to this thread, is to give as much information about having an ABA / 16V (ABF clone) with a 95.5 stroker TDI crankshaft.

There are many ways to skin this cat when it comes to pistons, which is the part that stands out , in this kind of engine.

I remember reading on a few alternatives, but I will put forward what I did:

First, the crank has to be machined to clear the squirters , (I put a ABA OBD1 with oil squirters) and also , making an engine like that, is usually for performance purposes, so light weight is a big factor. So I had the counterweights machined to clear the block, and asked for the crank to be lightened, even more than a gas crankshaft.

I decided to use the ABA OBD1 connecting rods, had them re-bored, because I put ARP hardware, and I wanted to have the con rod bearings to the best possible tolerancing.I also balanced the rods.
The balancing is not hard to do, check this video out :






---------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Now that the rods have been taken care of, the pistons (the angular stone of the build) need to be looked at:
Since I got some Schrick 276's my main concern was piston to valve clearance.
I also wanted to have a high compression engine. at fist I wanted about 12.5:1 static.
but going to a dynamic compression ratio made more sense:
The dynamic compression ratio, takes in account the overlap of the intake valve, after top dead center. So basically, its to adjust the compression, with your cams.

I ordered Wossner 84.00mm ABF pistons with 12.5:1 compression
With the stroker crank, these were a lot over deck, but it was OK: I wanted to play with the head gasket thikness, and I could also turn the pistons down on my lathe, with the 4 jaw chuck (which I did)
I made the calculations with the CC's of the head (that did change from stock because of the oversized valves) and piston overdeck CC's in order to obtain the needed head gasket thickness. I delaminated ABA gaskets, and mixed, and matched the layers to obtain the desired thickness. If I remember correctly, I had about 0.106" at that time.

I put plasticine on top of the piston, and assembled the head on the block, with the timing belt.

Rotated the crank slowly, in order to measure valve clearance.

Problems encountered:
the 45 degree of the Wossner pistons, would hit the outside part of the squish band on the head, and the ABA gaskets were real close too.

So I machined the 45 degree taper by about 0.047", and I also opened up the head gasket layers, with a small flapwheel, one by one, and thouroughly cleaned them afterwards.

I also doweled the block to the head & head gasket layers, using custom machined dowels.
The reason in the back of this, was to locate the gaskets diameters within a few thousands of an inch, because of the tolerance between the 84mm pistons and the head gasket.

I will try to find my notes, for my CC calculations, and dynamic compression numbers.

OK, enough typing, I will come back soon with more.

Cheers!
Fred

[antichristonwheels]

My machinist sunk squirters 1-3 higher into the block as #4 is. This took care of the clearance.

Remember hydro lifters will be pumped up a bit when running thus giving you slightly less piston to valve clearance than you will measure in a mockup.

[fredybender]

Remember hydro lifters will be pumped up a bit when running thus giving you slightly less piston to valve clearance than you will measure in a mockup.

I already ran this engine for a full season on the track, I'm just sharing my findings, and it will take quite a few posts, for me to render the full story, and ongoing upgrades of my engine...

And I would prefer taking of material off the crank in order to reduce inertia, then sinking in the squirters...

[REPOMAN]

[Bubble Block]

my daughter getting ready to run it down the strip

Nice! what type of numbers are you seeing at the wheels? and what did she run down the track??

[Bubble Block]

My set up:
ABA block OBD1
Tdi crank machined / lightened to the about the same weight of a 2.0L gas
84.00 Wossner ABF pistons 12.5 CR machined to clear squish band (see above pic on lathe...)
(final compression ratio is now 14.5:1 Running on VP C12 only)
TT big vavle kit with springs & ti retainers
Mk5 light weight hydraulic lifters
Schrick 276-276 cams
central coolant port blocked off on head; only running the side port
Setrab oil cooler with Volvo thermo sandwich plate
Distributor delete
Running megajolt ignition with MAP for load : 3D programmable
EDIS 4 coil packs
TT race headers fully wrapped
3 Row aluminum Honda radiator
228 mm stage 5 clutch with 7 lbs chromoly flywheel
Clutch cable set-up with Eurovan actuator
Quaife 6 speed dog box with 4.17 F.D.
Real VWMS clutch type LSD
running with dual DCOE 45's : at the limit of the 45's

last year at the dyno, before any tuning, and when it was at 12.5:1 CR
216 WHP
178 Tq

Fred This is pretty much the goal I would like to reach. I am looking to have a N/A between 170whp and 200whp if I can manage to get slightly more out of it I will be happy but I am not looking for anything extreme. I don't really want to run forced induction. I am looking to build a motor over the next year and probably be done (ready to drop it in the S1) some time around May 2013. Clearly you have "been there done that" & judging by this thread I am assuming you don't mind taking the time to explain things most people forget to mention. Would you mind if I pick your brain from time to time & give recommendations on what to use and what to stay away from?

Great build by the way!

[leon whalen]

Nice! what type of numbers are you seeing at the wheels? and what did she run down the track??

she ran the car into the 15's before the schrick cams went in.
15.2@91mph is cars best (without an LSD, traction is a real issue)
car has never been on a dyno but i am very pleased with its performance

[fredybender]

Fred This is pretty much the goal I would like to reach. I am looking to have a N/A between 170whp and 200whp if I can manage to get slightly more out of it I will be happy but I am not looking for anything extreme. I don't really want to run forced induction. I am looking to build a motor over the next year and probably be done (ready to drop it in the S1) some time around May 2013. Clearly you have "been there done that" & judging by this thread I am assuming you don't mind taking the time to explain things most people forget to mention. Would you mind if I pick your brain from time to time & give recommendations on what to use and what to stay away from?

Great build by the way!

Thanks for the kudos!
to get 200 WHP out of a NA 16V is somewhat of a challenge, and is also a wallet squeezer...
170WHP is not that hard to do.

The difference, is getting any of the HP's above 170 or so, not logical, considering the efforts and $ needed

I will try to eventually put as much information in here, to help out.

But then again, I think I rather get one on one communication, for the peeps that have the flame, and have the commitment to do such an illogical decision

Hit me up anytime BB

[71camaro]

Hey, I'm interested in getting some info here. I've got a 16v g60 setup using a 1.8l block, and I want to go to a 2.0/2.1L setup in the car, while staying at 10:1. If I were to do this, would I still use stock bore and just use the increased stroke to gain the displacement? And what CR piston would I run to get around 10:1? I'm planning on running a fairly large twin screw and feel the added displacement will be a huge help.

[fredybender]

Need to check up on a few notes, but
95.5 crank
ABA block & rods (OBD1 preferably for boost app)
Pistons : I would probably go with stock ABF pistons and double up on the head gasket:
The head gasket is 0.063" and the added stoke gives 0.053" higher protrusion in the head...
The stock C/R is 10.4, so with 0.009" more thickness, you would be close to 10 anyways.

I would definitely suggest you verify combustion chamber cc's, and piston interference with plasticine, during the build.

HTH
Fred

[71camaro]

Need to check up on a few notes, but
95.5 crank
ABA block & rods (OBD1 preferably for boost app)
Pistons : I would probably go with stock ABF pistons and double up on the head gasket:
The head gasket is 0.063" and the added stoke gives 0.053" higher protrusion in the head...
The stock C/R is 10.4, so with 0.009" more thickness, you would be close to 10 anyways.

I would definitely suggest you verify combustion chamber cc's, and piston interference with plasticine, during the build.

HTH
Fred

I want at least 9:1 but want more. It seems like a lot of people are scared of boost and higher compression, I am not. Tuning makes it work if done correctly. I was thinking the ABF pistons would be close, and yeah, some playdoh during the build to check clearances would be smart. Thanks I'll update as I move forward.

Also, does anyone know of a source for forged ABF pistons rather than cast? Thanks

[71camaro]

http://www.bahnbrenner.com/vw_audi/p...mm_Bore_Std_CR

I assume with the added stroke, these would end up at approximately 9:1?

[fredybender]

you'll end probably with around 10:1 with stock abf's with 2 ABA HG
this is piston height at TDC with 12.4 CR ABF pistons 84mm with ABA bloc & rods with 95.5mm crank:

[71camaro]

Anyone here know if the ABA trigger wheel, or another one perhaps, will work on the 1.9 crank? I'm trying to run coilpacks, and do away with the distributor

[antichristonwheels]

you could do it but drilling the crank to bolt on the wheel might be a pita

I used an 034EFI 16V 60-2 trigger wheel and sensor, firing an Electromotive ignition.

the 034 stuff is really nice and it bolts on.

[fredybender]

I STRONGLY suggest you look at a Megajolt ignition:
Real 3D programmable, and uses EDIS 4 module, & coil pack, and trigger wheel...
Cheap, good reliable, programmable.
I have heard horror stories on 034 with older stuff. Not a bad outfit, but 034 is made for the newer stuff IMHO...

36-1 wheel is easily adaptable to crank pulley, no retrofit needed for a "stock" VW trigger wheel.

[71camaro]

you could do it but drilling the crank to bolt on the wheel might be a pita

I used an 034EFI 16V 60-2 trigger wheel and sensor, firing an Electromotive ignition.

the 034 stuff is really nice and it bolts on.

I may attempt it (have a machine shop available). I'm trying to keep everything as hidden as possible, bay is extremely shaved, and I'm trying hard to keep everything hidden

[SirSpectre]

I know that a few of us are doing the ABA 16V with diesel crank.
ACOW, & Mr Whalen are some...

Lets get things started.

I will post more tech details on my set up soon, but just wanted to post this up for now.

The Beast:

What plug wires did you use for that EDIS pack to fit in the 16v?

[leon whalen]

Anyone here know if the ABA trigger wheel, or another one perhaps, will work on the 1.9 crank? I'm trying to run coilpacks, and do away with the distributor

the ABA trigger wheel is a direct fit. i have one on my tdi crank. it can also be used with most stand alone systems.

[fredybender]

What plug wires did you use for that EDIS pack to fit in the 16v?

I bought the ford Escort wires and, took the 16V ends out of a set I had.
Just made a set myself...
Just got to be carefull: Lucky my Coilpacks are close enough, but I'm at the limit of length for cyl. #1

[SirSpectre]

I bought the ford Escort wires and, took the 16V ends out of a set I had.
Just made a set myself...
Just got to be carefull: Lucky my Coilpacks are close enough, but I'm at the limit of length for cyl. #1

Ah bummer. I am going to do the same, was hoping someone made some, or found a set from Ford that matched nicely.

[bonesaw]

why bother with the EDIS stuff when you can use the factory 60-2 stuff.

[SirSpectre]

why bother with the EDIS stuff when you can use the factory 60-2 stuff.

Thats what I'm using. I use the 60-2 wheel, but use the coil pack for spark. MS drives the pack directly. I just need the plug wires.

[bonesaw]

i see. why not use bosch motorsports coil? use stock 16v wires. Can MS fire a high current coil directly?

[SirSpectre]

i see. why not use bosch motorsports coil? use stock 16v wires. Can MS fire a high current coil directly?

It can. Which coil did you have in mind? I'd hate to have to rewire the drivers and power for a different type of coil. Changing the pigtail would be easy though.

[bonesaw]

Bosch Motorsports 2x2 Coil.