TTRS - Strange sound when cold over 2k RPM?

[fourtunes]

Just checked with VCDS: my car is running rev 0020. I hope your rev is higher.

Interestingly, it isn't. It's 0010. It didn't occur to me to check yesterday, but I'm in a position to compare the versions before/after: the information is captured in the log file as part of VCDS's full fault-code scan, and I have one or two of those log files from before the ECU update. I'll take a look at that tonight.

For what it's worth: I haven't heard the rattle since I got the car back. It has only seen two cold starts in that time, but two clean starts is good mileage already.

[Marty]

Interestingly, it isn't. It's 0010.

The plot thickens...

[Marty]

Interestingly, it isn't. It's 0010. It didn't occur to me to check yesterday, but I'm in a position to compare the versions before/after: the information is captured in the log file as part of VCDS's full fault-code scan, and I have one or two of those log files from before the ECU update. I'll take a look at that tonight.

For what it's worth: I haven't heard the rattle since I got the car back. It has only seen two cold starts in that time, but two clean starts is good mileage already.

I spoke to my advisor at your dealer, and they suggested that it was actually more of a custom one-off program for your car (not a general update available to anyone that comes in).

They said I'd have to bring my car in, they'd have to reproduce the issue, initiate interaction with Audi in Germany, and only then get instruction to put this custom program on the car.

So maybe this is a "beta" of some sort that is built on the older 0010 program, but modified to try and tweak the oil pressure settings?

[JohnLZ7W]

So maybe this is a "beta" of some sort that is built on the older 0010 program, but modified to try and tweak the oil pressure settings?

I still don't follow how the ECU can control oil pressure. I thought it was a completely mechanical system driven off of the crankshaft.

[Marty]

I still don't follow how the ECU can control oil pressure. I thought it was a completely mechanical system driven off of the crankshaft.

I was assuming that there was a relief valve or other electromechanical control that could indirectly impact the pressure. But that is just an assumption on my part.

[fourtunes]

I spoke to my advisor at your dealer, and they suggested that it was actually more of a custom one-off program for your car (not a general update available to anyone that comes in).

They said I'd have to bring my car in, they'd have to reproduce the issue, initiate interaction with Audi in Germany, and only then get instruction to put this custom program on the car.

Interesting. Well, at least they'd probably start with the ECU change.

So maybe this is a "beta" of some sort that is built on the older 0010 program, but modified to try and tweak the oil pressure settings?

/me shrugs.

I'm sure they're not telling us the whole story, and there's no telling how accurate the pieces that are being shared really are.

[fourtunes]

I was assuming that there was a relief valve or other electromechanical control that could indirectly impact the pressure. But that is just an assumption on my part.

The description in the Self-Study Program 990713 document is somewhat unclear on this. It does show that the oil pump is driven mechanically, but it also states that the pump is self-regulating. The document mentions a variety of valves, so it doesn't seem hard to believe that there's relief valves or some other means to affect pressure.

[DrDomm]

I'm due for 1st service soon. I'll have to mention this...afterall, I was the first person to notice this, but just got ignored.

From 10/21/11...http://forums.fourtitude.com/showthr...-have-noticed)

Anyone hear a weird fan noise when applying throttle, shortly after a cold start? I get this all the time.

Now, I'm even more hesitant to flash my ECU...

[fourtunes]

I'm due for 1st service soon. I'll have to mention this...afterall, I was the first person to notice this, but just got ignored.

From 10/21/11...http://forums.fourtitude.com/showthr...-have-noticed)

Now, I'm even more hesitant to flash my ECU...

No kidding. If I had had to pay for the rattle debug effort, it would've proven a very costly experience. I'm not going to mess with the ECU.

[Marty]

Now, I'm even more hesitant to flash my ECU...

Same here...

[Black BeauTTy]

I'm due for 1st service soon. I'll have to mention this...afterall, I was the first person to notice this, but just got ignored.

From 10/21/11...http://forums.fourtitude.com/showthr...-have-noticed)



Now, I'm even more hesitant to flash my ECU...

I'm sorry, did you say something?

[audi_rs]

i dont think this problem is isolated to the tt-rs, my 3.2 vr6 MK2 TT makes the exact same noise. when the exhaust system is cold it emits a crazy raspy/rattling metal sound. it seems to disappear after the exhaust system really warms up. i have also found youtube videos of people with stock and aftermarket exhausts that still make this noise.

here is a video with a 3.2 with an exhaust system. clearly looks like a cold start as he rolls out of the garage. thats the same noise my car makes and it sounds like its what the OP's car is doing too?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lOykjzP9JzM

sorry i only skimmed through the 4 pages, so i apologize if i missed something or am late to the party

[fourtunes]

I spoke to my advisor at your dealer, and they suggested that it was actually more of a custom one-off program for your car (not a general update available to anyone that comes in).

They said I'd have to bring my car in, they'd have to reproduce the issue, initiate interaction with Audi in Germany, and only then get instruction to put this custom program on the car.

So maybe this is a "beta" of some sort that is built on the older 0010 program, but modified to try and tweak the oil pressure settings?

I took a look at the log file, and as I suspected, the ECU version doesn't appear to be limited to just the 4 digit code referenced above.

Before (captured @ 832 miles):

Address 01: Engine (CEP)        Labels: 07K-907-404-CEP.clb

    Part No SW: 8J0 907 404 Q    HW: 8J0 907 404 M

    Component: 2.5l R5/4V TFSI        0020

    ...

After (captured @ 1416 miles):

Address 01: Engine (CEP)        Labels: None

    Part No SW: 8J0 907 404 R    HW: 8J0 907 404 M

    Component: 2.5l R5/4V TFSI        0010

    ...

As to status: 0/3 on the rattle front so far.

[fourtunes]

i dont think this problem is isolated to the tt-rs, my 3.2 vr6 MK2 TT makes the exact same noise. when the exhaust system is cold it emits a crazy raspy/rattling metal sound. it seems to disappear after the exhaust system really warms up. i have also found youtube videos of people with stock and aftermarket exhausts that still make this noise.

here is a video with a 3.2 with an exhaust system. clearly looks like a cold start as he rolls out of the garage. thats the same noise my car makes and it sounds like its what the OP's car is doing too?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lOykjzP9JzM

sorry i only skimmed through the 4 pages, so i apologize if i missed something or am late to the party

That doesn't sound like the rattle we're talking about. In our case, the noise comes from the engine itself (from the transmission side).

[Marty]

I took a look at the log file, and as I suspected, the ECU version doesn't appear to be limited to just the 4 digit code referenced above.

Before (captured @ 832 miles):

Address 01: Engine (CEP)        Labels: 07K-907-404-CEP.clb

    Part No SW: 8J0 907 404 Q    HW: 8J0 907 404 M

    Component: 2.5l R5/4V TFSI        0020

    ...

After (captured @ 1416 miles):

Address 01: Engine (CEP)        Labels: None

    Part No SW: 8J0 907 404 R    HW: 8J0 907 404 M

    Component: 2.5l R5/4V TFSI        0010

    ...

As to status: 0/3 on the rattle front so far.

It looks like you used to have rev 0020, and now you have rev 0010. According to APR, these are the software rev's (while the other numbers are ECU box codes).

APR also said that they've seen US TT-RS' with both rev 0020 and 0010.

[audi_rs]

That doesn't sound like the rattle we're talking about. In our case, the noise comes from the engine itself (from the transmission side).

thank you for clarifying that. i feel my problem is related to exhaust so i will start to replace exhaust components.

Good luck to the op, hope he gets sorted

cheers

[DrDomm]

I'm sorry, did you say something?

LOL.

I'm so bummed not to come to the GTG...

[fourtunes]

It looks like you used to have rev 0020, and now you have rev 0010. According to APR, these are the software rev's (while the other numbers are ECU box codes).

APR also said that they've seen US TT-RS' with both rev 0020 and 0010.

Take a look at the Part No SW field. The last digit changed from Q to R.

[Marty]

Take a look at the Part No SW field. The last digit changed from Q to R.

Good catch... I wonder what that means.

[Black BeauTTy]

Just ran mine...0020 for me and I was a very early delivery.

[Black BeauTTy]

LOL.

I'm so bummed not to come to the GTG...

We'll make it happen another time. You can count it!

[fourtunes]

I took a look at the log file, and as I suspected, the ECU version doesn't appear to be limited to just the 4 digit code referenced above.

Before (captured @ 832 miles):

Address 01: Engine (CEP)        Labels: 07K-907-404-CEP.clb

    Part No SW: 8J0 907 404 Q    HW: 8J0 907 404 M

    Component: 2.5l R5/4V TFSI        0020

    ...

After (captured @ 1416 miles):

Address 01: Engine (CEP)        Labels: None

    Part No SW: 8J0 907 404 R    HW: 8J0 907 404 M

    Component: 2.5l R5/4V TFSI        0010

    ...

As to status: 0/3 on the rattle front so far.

The good news is that the chain rattle hasn't reproduced since I got the car back. This means nearly 10 cold starts without problems - unprecedented for my car (at least over the last two months), and thus encouraging.

The bad news is that the oil level warning came on just before I got home yesterday. I checked the level and found the engine to be bone dry. Now, since I had had the oil changed before I took the car back on Tuesday, this means that either the dealership didn't get the oil change right (which seems unlikely), or that the TT-RS went through all of its oil in ~130 miles. Neither leaves me with a warm fuzzy feeling.

So I had a nice walk to the nearest gas station, topped off the oil and checked for leaks last night. Since I couldn't find anything obvious, I dropped the car off again this morning and asked the dealership to take a look.

Life with an Audi sure isn't boring. Another day, another problem...

[mtbscoTT]

If you burned through all of your oil in 130 miles, you would have looked like a fogger going down the street...I think you would have noticed. Seems more likely to me that whomever did the oil change didn't put the right amount in.

[JohnLZ7W]

If you burned through all of your oil in 130 miles, you would have looked like a fogger going down the street...I think you would have noticed. Seems more likely to me that whomever did the oil change didn't put the right amount in.

Maybe that's the fix for the rattle... drain a couple quarts of oil out

[fourtunes]

If you burned through all of your oil in 130 miles, you would have looked like a fogger going down the street...I think you would have noticed. Seems more likely to me that whomever did the oil change didn't put the right amount in.

Agreed; neither option seemed likely.

Incidentally, the screw-up really is what happened. The tech responsible apparently filled in the amount needed for the TTS, but the TTRS engine needs an additional 2 1/2 quarts (which, incidentally, is what I had to add yesterday). The dealership apologized and I was assured that from now on, only select techs get to work on my car(s).

So for anyone going in for their first service: it might be a good idea to remind the dealership that the 2.5l TFSI is not a 2.0l TFSI.

[neonova6]

Agreed; neither option seemed likely.

Incidentally, the screw-up really is what happened. The tech responsible apparently filled in the amount needed for the TTS, but the TTRS engine needs an additional 2 1/2 quarts (which, incidentally, is what I had to add yesterday). The dealership apologized and I was assured that from now on, only select techs get to work on my car(s).

So for anyone going in for their first service: it might be a good idea to remind the dealership that the 2.5l TFSI is not a 2.0l TFSI.

That just sounds like blatant disregard for an oil change procedure. At least you weren't in the middle of a long road trip.

That's great news about ECU flash fixing the problem. Let's all cross our fingers it continues to hold.

[fourtunes]

That just sounds like blatant disregard for an oil change procedure. At least you weren't in the middle of a long road trip.

I'll be double-checking the oil level after services and always have a quart or two of oil in the car from now on, that's for sure. I wasn't in the middle of a road trip, and last night was well suited for a 4 1/2 mile hike, but it was still annoying and entirely unnecessary. You'd think one would spend two minutes to check the oil level with the dip stick when working on a new engine for the first time.

Oh well, I'm just glad it was human error and not another problem with this car.

That's great news about ECU flash fixing the problem. Let's all cross our fingers it continues to hold.

Yes, that fix still looks like it's holding up fine.

[DrDomm]

Now that I see all the interest in this rattle, I've been able to easily reproduce it despite our relatively warm weather lately. It's totally consistent with what others are saying. Allow the car to sit for a few hours. If it starts with a high idle, rev to 2200-2400, and it's there.

I've schedule my first service appointment, and have forwarded one of Marty's videos to my dealer. Spoke with the service manager today, and he didn't seem surprised there was an issue.

Fourtunes, who's your dealer? Maybe I should have mine call them.

[Marty]

Maybe that's the fix for the rattle... drain a couple quarts of oil out

LOL! Maybe so.

[fourtunes]

Now that I see all the interest in this rattle, I've been able to easily reproduce it despite our relatively warm weather lately. It's totally consistent with what others are saying. Allow the car to sit for a few hours. If it starts with a high idle, rev to 2200-2400, and it's there.

I've schedule my first service appointment, and have forwarded one of Marty's videos to my dealer. Spoke with the service manager today, and he didn't seem surprised there was an issue.

Fourtunes, who's your dealer? Maybe I should have mine call them.

Audi Stevens Creek in San Jose. The service manager is aware of the problem, so if your dealer needs more information, that's probably the best point of contact.

[DrDomm]

Audi Stevens Creek in San Jose. The service manager is aware of the problem, so if your dealer needs more information, that's probably the best point of contact.

Thanks. And I've realized it has nothing to do with the "high idle". If the car sits for a few hours, but not long enough to restart with high idle, it will still rattle briefly.

Here's a quick video I made in my dark garage last night. It's easiest to hear by keeping the driver's door open.

[Marty]

Audi Stevens Creek in San Jose. The service manager is aware of the problem, so if your dealer needs more information, that's probably the best point of contact.

I'm taking my car in next week. They say they have to reproduce the problem before they can give me the update. I hope that doesn't take a month....

[fourtunes]

I'm taking my car in next week. They say they have to reproduce the problem before they can give me the update. I hope that doesn't take a month....

I doubt it. Once I managed to convince them there was a legitimate problem (there always is some amount of skepticism to overcome), they didn't have a hard time reproducing the problem consistently. Chances are they'll let your car sit outside overnight, then start it up, rev it well past 2000 RPM and let the throttle go. That's how they got the rattle consistently in my case.

And I'm happy to report that the ECU fix still looks solid. I'm back to enjoying the RS - I've put a little over 200 miles on it since Tuesday.

[tdi-bart]

so i did the high idle test today, i didn't hear anything out of the ordinary, however the engine starts to vibrate the car around the rpm everyone is referring too, so i would think the two are related however mine isn't making any noise, it's almost as though there is an imbalance inside somewhere exactly at that rpm... i am not too concerned and i didnt check if it keeps happening once fully warmed up

[mkauzer]

Yep. Inside the garage with door closed does it. Noise is huge. Mine gets reported Monday.

Thanks. And I've realized it has nothing to do with the "high idle". If the car sits for a few hours, but not long enough to restart with high idle, it will still rattle briefly.

Here's a quick video I made in my dark garage last night. It's easiest to hear by keeping the driver's door open.