TTRS - Strange sound when cold over 2k RPM?

[DrDomm]

Incidentally, my car didn't make that noise when cold this morning. Crazy.

[mkauzer]

Captured again this morning. You can definitely hear the rasp disappear at about 0:22

[Marty]

Captured again this morning. You can definitely hear the rasp disappear at about 0:22

Yep, that's it.

[DrDomm]

Yep, that's it.

Exactly. It's an epidemic!

[mkauzer]

Thanks to fortunes and Darren at Stevens Creek of San Jose for doing the heavy lifting. Concord Audi was of little help as they had no insight into our problem. From Darren: Audi engineers have determined that no damage is being done and they'll have a ECU flash to tweak oil pressure within weeks. Just in case I'll allow 40 secs. before "take-off" in the morning. I sensed a real interest from Darren. Looking forward to traveling down there for the flash.

Captured again this morning. You can definitely hear the rasp disappear at about 0:22

[fourtunes]

Thanks to fortunes and Darren at Stevens Creek of San Jose for doing the heavy lifting. Concord Audi was of little help as they had no insight into our problem. From Darren: Audi engineers have determined that no damage is being done and they'll have a ECU flash to tweak oil pressure within weeks. Just in case I'll allow 40 secs. before "take-off" in the morning. I sensed a real interest from Darren. Looking forward to traveling down there for the flash.

Thanks for the update. Hopefully the ECU flash will resolve the problem for you guys, as well. I've fallen back to my old cadence of 1) turn on ignition, 2) wait a few seconds, 3) start engine, 4) wait ~80 seconds and 5) drive off. And I still haven't had any rattles since last Tuesday.

[DrDomm]

Thanks to fortunes and Darren at Stevens Creek of San Jose for doing the heavy lifting. Concord Audi was of little help as they had no insight into our problem. From Darren: Audi engineers have determined that no damage is being done and they'll have a ECU flash to tweak oil pressure within weeks. Just in case I'll allow 40 secs. before "take-off" in the morning. I sensed a real interest from Darren. Looking forward to traveling down there for the flash.

Mine is at the dealer for the second day as they await Audi technical support to provide them with the updated ECU flash.

I asked the rep to find out what exactly the flash does and why, but I'm skeptical I'll get a detailed explanation. If it raises oil pressure, why was it low to begin with? How does it raise oil pressure? Does this affect performance in any way?

Of course Audi is gonna say there was no damage done during the months of this issue. I hope they are truthful (in their engineering).

[fourtunes]

Mine is at the dealer for the second day as they await Audi technical support to provide them with the updated ECU flash.

I asked the rep to find out what exactly the flash does and why, but I'm skeptical I'll get a detailed explanation. If it raises oil pressure, why was it low to begin with? How does it raise oil pressure? Does this affect performance in any way?

Of course Audi is gonna say there was no damage done during the months of this issue. I hope they are truthful (in their engineering).

I was told the oil pressure adjustment only applied to the first few minutes of operation, during which the oil pressure was originally kept lower (maybe to account for differences in viscosity?). I doubt we'll ever know exactly what was changed, what the implications are, etc..

[Marty]

Mine is at the dealer for the second day as they await Audi technical support to provide them with the updated ECU flash.

I asked the rep to find out what exactly the flash does and why, but I'm skeptical I'll get a detailed explanation. If it raises oil pressure, why was it low to begin with? How does it raise oil pressure? Does this affect performance in any way?

Of course Audi is gonna say there was no damage done during the months of this issue. I hope they are truthful (in their engineering).

Mine is at the dealer for the 2nd day as well.

I was told that the software can control some orifice opening in the oil circulation path (which regulates flow), and that the reflash opens this up more when the car is cold to get oil to the tensioning system more quickly.

But I have no idea how correct that description really is... I was hoping to find some technical docs somewhere on the car that described this oil control system.

[fjork_duf]

I was told that the software can control some orifice opening in the oil circulation path....

I think that technically is called the 'oil sphincter'

[mkauzer]

Marty, what dealership are you using?

Mine is at the dealer for the 2nd day as well.

I was told that the software can control some orifice opening in the oil circulation path (which regulates flow), and that the reflash opens this up more when the car is cold to get oil to the tensioning system more quickly.

But I have no idea how correct that description really is... I was hoping to find some technical docs somewhere on the car that described this oil control system.

[Marty]

Marty, what dealership are you using?

Same as fourtunes: Stevens Creek Audi.

[jpkeyzer]

Fellow TT-RS enthusiasts,

I ran into this issue this morning!

After contacting Audi Stevens Creek in San Jose, CA (who assisted the very first customer with this problem), I discovered the following:

- this is a non-critical issue (it does not negatively impact the engine or its performance in any way) and is really more of an annoyance than anything else.

- for engine break-in purposes, the engine runs at full oil pressure for the first 1000 kilometers (or 621 miles).

- after this, for emission and fuel economy purposes, the oil pressure is varied on demand.

- this issue is being caused by an internal tensioner vibrating because of lowered oil pressure.

- the ECU update addresses the lowered oil pressure and resolves the issue.

- at some point in the future, Audi will release this ECU software update via a service bulletin.

I hope this helps.

[fourtunes]

Fellow TT-RS enthusiasts,
- for engine break-in purposes, the engine runs at full oil pressure for the first 1000 kilometers (or 621 miles).

Ah, that finally explains why none of us noticed that problem at first.

[DrDomm]

Ah, that finally explains why none of noticed that problem at first.

Information...what a novelty.

[Marty]

Fellow TT-RS enthusiasts,

I ran into this issue this morning!

After contacting Audi Stevens Creek in San Jose, CA (who assisted the very first customer with this problem), I discovered the following:

- this is a non-critical issue (it does not negatively impact the engine or its performance in any way) and is really more of an annoyance than anything else.

- for engine break-in purposes, the engine runs at full oil pressure for the first 1000 kilometers (or 621 miles).

- after this, for emission and fuel economy purposes, the oil pressure is varied on demand.

- this issue is being caused by an internal tensioner vibrating because of lowered oil pressure.

- the ECU update addresses the lowered oil pressure and resolves the issue.

- at some point in the future, Audi will release this ECU software update via a service bulletin.

I hope this helps.

Great info! Who specifically did you talk to at Stevens Creek about this?

I hope the future update isn't yet another change, so the few of us that are proactive aren't running some weird beta interim program.

An oil pressure gage would have been super useful for seeing what's happening before and after the changes.

[Marty]

Ah, that finally explains why none of noticed that problem at first.

Excellent point!

[jpkeyzer]

Great info! Who specifically did you talk to at Stevens Creek about this?

Daren Ferguson, the Parts & Service Director.

[Marty]

Daren Ferguson, the Parts & Service Director.

Yours isn't the black TT-RS I see there every now and then, is it?

[jpkeyzer]

Yours isn't the black TT-RS I see there every now and then, is it?

Mine is black, but situated on the opposite coast.

[DrDomm]

Picked my car up Wednesday evening, after being flashed with the updated software. No improvement in the chain sound yesterday morning or this morning. Oh well.

[Marty]

Picked my car up Wednesday evening, after being flashed with the updated software. No improvement in the chain sound yesterday morning or this morning. Oh well.

That's not good. Did you check the program revision with VCDS? I just picked mine up this morning and I'll check it tonight.

[fourtunes]

That's not good. Did you check the program revision with VCDS? I just picked mine up this morning and I'll check it tonight.

I'd be curious about the version, as well. I know it won't help you, but I haven't heard any more rattling since the update - and it's been nearly two weeks. I'm confident the problem has been addressed with the ECU update in my car.

Marty, have you checked if your ECU's version matches mine post-update?

[Marty]

Marty, have you checked if your ECU's version matches mine post-update?

Confirmed: I went from Q-0020 to R-0010.

[DrDomm]

That's not good. Did you check the program revision with VCDS? I just picked mine up this morning and I'll check it tonight.

I don't have VCDS. Hmm, maybe I will ask the dealer to double check next week.

[DrDomm]

My dealer printed out the data after Audi did the remote software upgrade. It shows a software version of V19.36.00. They told me that's the latest software. I don't see an R-0010 anywhere, but under "01-Engine Electronics", the last line does say "0010". I'm assuming this is the correct software. Sadly, it didn't resolve my rattle.

Incidentally, the Audi Technical rep told my dealer's mechanic to hold the cruise contol button for 10 seconds to see if there was an ECU flash...apparently from APR. Kinda funny.

[Marty]

My dealer printed out the data after Audi did the remote software upgrade. It shows a software version of V19.36.00. They told me that's the latest software. I don't see an R-0010 anywhere, but under "01-Engine Electronics", the last line does say "0010". I'm assuming this is the correct software. Sadly, it didn't resolve my rattle.

Here's the top line of mine in VCDS prior to update:



And after update:

Incidentally, the Audi Technical rep told my dealer's mechanic to hold the cruise contol button for 10 seconds to see if there was an ECU flash...apparently from APR. Kinda funny.

Haha! Sneaky. APR says that the TT-RS ECU doesn't currently fall under the auto-scan for reflashes umbrella (resulting in a "TD1" warranty marker if flagged). So maybe they're checking manually via the stalk.

But if you use the APR security lock-out feature, is there any way to tell that there is an APR tune on the car by playing with the cruise control stalk if you don't know the passcode? My impression was no, but if APR did something like flash the CEL to indicate some mode then they might give it away.

[fourtunes]

On that note, is the APR ECU tune going to pick up the oil pressure fixes for this issue?

[DrDomm]

Here's what mine says after the "fix":

01-Engine Electronics
8J0907404R
2.5l R5/4V TFSI
Coding Long
Dealer number 08105
8J0907404M
H05
0010

Now, the first and the last lines of that line up with what Marty's saying. I'm not sure where the "M" comes from. Oh well. Anyway, my service manager and the mechanic both got the impression that this was only a temporary fix from Audi, and that there will be a recall with both hardware and software involved.

[J662]

Picked my car up Wednesday evening, after being flashed with the updated software. No improvement in the chain sound yesterday morning or this morning. Oh well.

I started my car yesterday evening I noticed that chain sound for the first time. It was brief but it was there. I have 1300 miles on my car. Doesn't seem like its causing problems so I'm not going to do anything until Audi comes up with a tsb or recall.


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[DrDomm]

I started my car yesterday evening I noticed that chain sound for the first time. It was brief but it was there. I have 1300 miles on my car. Doesn't seem like its causing problems so I'm not going to do anything until Audi comes up with a tsb or recall.


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You didn't have the new software installed, right? I agree with you. Audi states there is no harm to internal components. Now my concern is if they will issue a recall/TSB and have new software and even hardware. Time will tell.

[J662]

You didn't have the new software installed, right? I agree with you. Audi states there is no harm to internal components. Now my concern is if they will issue a recall/TSB and have new software and even hardware. Time will tell.

Correct, I didn't have the new software installed nor have I brought up the issue to service dept. If there is a recall there we be at least a clear path for the fix, instead of the dealership going through trial and error etc. that is always a nightmare as some have experienced with this chain issue.


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[neonova6]

Captured a decent reproduction of mine. I'll take this and show Audi at my 5k coming up if a few weeks. Not sure if the ECU flash is worth it, if it's not going to absolutely fix the problem. I guess well see what the service rep recommends...

[tdi-bart]

can def hear that!

i have 8k km on mine and it never happened once...

[neonova6]

So I got a call from my service rep yesterday informing me of the new ECU flash for the TTRS regarding this timing chain rattle on cold starts. So I guess that means it's officially release by Audi. I'll take mine in next Monday. Anyone else get a call from their service reps recently?