Nokia launches the 808 PureView with a 41-megapixel camera

[Son]

Engadget story: http://www.engadget.com/2012/02/27/n...play-41-megap/
The second video behind the Engadget link explains the technology.

Sample images: http://press.nokia.com/media/554/pho...-808-pureview/
The microphone on that thing is pretty good, too: http://nokiaconnects.com/2012/02/27/...ck-your-world/

[Hostile]

Yea, but how big is the image sensor...?

[Son]

Yea, but how big is the image sensor...?

Does it make any difference, when the images are this good?
http://mynokiablog.com/2012/02/27/of...n-and-enhance/

[JimmyD]

Does it make any difference, when the images are this good?
http://mynokiablog.com/2012/02/27/of...n-and-enhance/

That's pretty impressive for a phone!

[16v]

Symbian


*snicker*

[Son]

Symbian


*snicker*

Well, it was just awarded as the Best New Mobile Handset, Device or Tablet at the Mobile World Congress in Barcelona. Not bad for something that runs on Symbian. *snicker*

[16v]

Well, it was just awarded as the Best New Mobile Handset, Device or Tablet at the Mobile World Congress in Barcelona. Not bad for something that runs on Symbian. *snicker*

in a month no one will even remember it or it's MWC statue

[davela72]

in a month no one will even remember it or it's MWC statue

yeah...ok

[GahannaKid]

in a month no one will even remember it or it's MWC statue

In a month nobody will remember 97% of the android phones announced, but I suspect this one will stand out among the sea of mediocrity.

[Hostile]

Does it make any difference, when the images are this good?
http://mynokiablog.com/2012/02/27/of...n-and-enhance/

Of course it does... Cramming a ton of pixels on a tiny sensor makes for noisy pic with lousy ISO values. What's the point of all those pixels if any large print that would actually benefit from the pixel density will look like crap?

[16v]

yeah...ok

c'mon be serious if you're going to dispute it. Nokia is great at debuting flashing devices that suck people in and then they fall flat on their screens (aka suck) in the long run. And by long run I mean more than 3 months

oh look, from our "where are they now collection" the Nokia N-Gage! or how about the 8080?

[16v]

In a month nobody will remember 97% of the android phones announced, but I suspect this one will stand out among the sea of mediocrity.

I beg to differ


no operators are going to line up to subsidize it

[Son]

Just a question: Have you had the chance of using a Symbian Belle phone?

Also, Nokia CEO Stephen Elop said this camera technology will be brought to other platforms which can be read as Windows Phone. But since you were LOL'ing at WP in the other thread, I guess that won't convince you, either. Sounds like you're generally anti-Nokia and anti-Microsoft. Which probably means you're pro-something. I'm curious to know which it is, Apple or Android.

[16v]

Just a question: Have you had the chance of using a Symbian Belle phone?

Also, Nokia CEO Stephen Elop said this camera technology will be brought to other platforms which can be read as Windows Phone. But since you were LOL'ing at WP in the other thread, I guess that won't convince you, either. Sounds like you're generally anti-Nokia and anti-Microsoft. Which probably means you're pro-something. I'm curious to know which it is, Apple or Android.

Since this symbian OS hasn't been delivered in the Americas I have not (but then again you knew that). I will, however, take anything that comes from the CEO of a floundering vendor with a grain of salt. Maybe he's got a silver bullet in the chamber but... I'm not holding my breath on that.


In closing, since I work with a myriad of devices/OSs on a daily basis I'm pro nothing. My job is to find their faults.

[Son]

Well, Symbian Belle is a major improvement over the previous Symbian versions.

[Son]

Yea, but how big is the image sensor...?

Found the answer to your question:

The 808's image sensor is not only larger in resolution, but physical size. It's larger than the ones in most--if not all--current smartphones as well as the majority of point-and-shoots.

The 8-megapixel iPhone 4S, for example, has a 1/3.2-inch type sensor while most compact cameras use a 1/2.3-inch type sensor. The 808's in comparison is a 1/1.2-inch type, which is quite a large sensor for a mobile device. (Do the division and you get the approximate diagonal measurement of the sensor.) That's 2.5 times larger than the one Nokia used in its 12-megapixel N8.

Of course, packing a larger sensor with more than three times the number of pixels doesn't translate into better photos: smaller pixels collect less light, which worsens image quality. The thing is, Nokia doesn't really want you to use the full resolution of its sensor. Not for giant photos, anyway.

Instead, the 808 defaults to a 5-megapixel resolution. Through a process called pixel oversampling (though some might call it pixel binning), Nokia combines seven pixels into one superpixel. Doing that helps eliminate image noise in low-light conditions and, according to Nokia, makes noise virtually nonexistent when shooting in good lighting. So while the 808 can be set to take 38- or 34-megapixel images depending on the aspect ratio used--4:3 or 16:9, respectively--it's not why Nokia used such a high-resolution sensor.

The pixel oversampling also allowed Nokia to develop a lossless digital zoom, which is probably the most important part for a lot of people. Basically, as you zoom out the amount of oversampling reduces until you've reached the limit of the actual resolution. In other words, if you have it set for 5 megapixels you can continue to zoom until it's no longer oversampling and simply using a 5-megapixel area of the sensor. There is no upscaling or interpolation, it's just a 5-megapixel photo. At that resolution, it will give you about a 3x lossless zoom for photos and a 4x zoom for movies shot in full HD. Reduce the resolution, and you get more lossless zoom.

Source: http://reviews.cnet.com/8301-13970_7...#ixzz1oPx21Y5Q

[davela72]

In closing, since I work with a myriad of devices/OSs on a daily basis I'm pro nothing. My job is to find their faults.

OK, valid point, I like the "pro nothing". It looks like the 808 might not even make it to the U.S. as with most Nokia's these days. I had an N8 with Symbian Belle and also have an N9 and have to say I prefer the N9 (Meego OS) better. We'll see how Nokia's comeback to the U.S. goes with the intro of the Lumia 900 with AT&T.

I'll admit, I do like Nokia but that's being a bit of an outcast here in the U.S., to each their own.

[sonicGLI]

Of course it does... Cramming a ton of pixels on a tiny sensor makes for noisy pic with lousy ISO values. What's the point of all those pixels if any large print that would actually benefit from the pixel density will look like crap?

That's precisely why the new Canon 5D MKIII didn't increase MP (by much). Larger pixels = more light sensitivity. I'm VERY happy that Canon didn't jump into the MP race like Nikon did with the new D800. If you want lots of MP, buy a medium format digital back or Hassel...

[dragonfli_x]

Found the answer to your question:


Source: http://reviews.cnet.com/8301-13970_7...#ixzz1oPx21Y5Q

I totally read up on it, can't wait to upgrade the n8... I suspect it'll cost me arm+leg, but if it ever comes stateside... shudder! my wife's panasonic point-n-shoot camera is totally gimp against my n8, and this one will just whip it and make it yell "uncle."

also if it does USB on-the-go, FM transmitting, and wireless streaming from the phone (not to the phone) - it'll be a winner!

Symbian Belle really is a step beyond the competition, but it's so far out of the USA that no one will notice...

[dragonfli_x]

just wanted to mention that it's for sale!!!! yay! in America! can run fast fast on all GSM networks with its pentaband lovin... and its USB OTG... and its NFC... and its FM transmitter... and its active sleep display...and its puny battery that get's really decent battery life...and its xenon flash...and its and it's 41 MP sensor that takes super awesome 5MP and 8MP pureview (pixel binned) images...and its 1080p/30 video recording that can actually zoom in the same manner as its photos...and its Rich Recording audio capabilities that allows recording in stereo from 25 up to 140 dB... and its wireless broadcasting DNLA ability.... sigh... anyone looking to buy my turbo?

I totally drank the kool-aid!
I'm just saying...

[Son]

Here's a video where you can hear the quality of the Rich Recording mics. Best heard with headphones. If you watch it in full screen, you can see what the other two phones tested are.

[dragonfli_x]

AAARRRGH!! I want to afford it ... it's not in the stars... anyone with a nokia friends/family discount?

[leaftye]

I hope they don't take long to release a Lumia Pureview (Windows). The hardware is fantastic, but I don't want to get stuck with a dead OS. I absolutely love the camera and that it has a replaceable battery. MicroSD is nice too. A higher resolution screen would be nice too. Maybe we'll get that in the next version.

[dragonfli_x]

just so long as I have a way to take really good pictures and video on the fly that will be great to bring home and tailor it later to however I want... a crappy pic is from a crappy camera is exactly what it is .... and relative to what's out there that's good enough to throw in your pocket and has a decently solid OS that sips battery life, does what it's supposed to do and operate the hardware in the most efficient manner, plus having access to all the things other phones don't think about having till later... the nokia 808 pureview is perfect for catching all types of video and audio for me to have the option of changing in almost a pseudo-raw format! I seriously can't think of anything else i'd need from a modern phone.

[leaftye]

just so long as I have a way to take really good pictures and video on the fly that will be great to bring home and tailor it later to however I want... a crappy pic is from a crappy camera is exactly what it is .... and relative to what's out there that's good enough to throw in your pocket and has a decently solid OS that sips battery life, does what it's supposed to do and operate the hardware in the most efficient manner, plus having access to all the things other phones don't think about having till later... the nokia 808 pureview is perfect for catching all types of video and audio for me to have the option of changing in almost a pseudo-raw format! I seriously can't think of anything else i'd need from a modern phone.

I have an older Nokia n97. It's very easy to snap off a pic as long as the phone is already on.

There are power conserving modes. I don't know how long it can ultimately last. I've heard it can last days if it's not being used. It has a replaceable battery anyhow, so you can be awful with power consumption if you don't mind carrying around extra batteries. The batteries are a lot smaller and more convenient to use than external batteries. External battery chargers are cheap too.

The reviews say the camera is the best on a cell phone out there. It has a sensor that's bigger than in most handheld cameras. With the right software, it can take that 41 megapixel picture and make a spectacular 8 megapixel picture. Fujifilm has done that with a few of their cameras, so it's nothing new, and the results are pretty good.

It's just that OS that bothers me. Some things it does okay, but I hate the web browser and music player. There aren't as many options for Symbian apps. At least the developer tools seem to be free, but that doesn't help if you don't have the skills or inclination to develop an app that fits you...and it's not like there'd be many customers to sell your masterpiece to. That's why I'm dying for a Windows Phone version of this.

[dragonfli_x]

that statement only applies to the USA ... you forget that there are still about 90million symbian users out there - granted, there ARE more iOS and Androiders who can only use a fraction of the total apps on the market because of variances in usage...

And I really like the windows OS 7.8 and have hopes for a better pureview world - but there is claim that only the 808 will have the 41PM sensor... all future ones will not be as big because big sensors aren't beautiful... just big processors and screens (which oddly enough only deal with the "NOW" experience, not with the "AFTER" experience, which is more of my goal in finding the best smartphone.

[leaftye]

And I really like the windows OS 7.8 and have hopes for a better pureview world - but there is claim that only the 808 will have the 41PM sensor... all future ones will not be as big because big sensors aren't beautiful... just big processors and screens (which oddly enough only deal with the "NOW" experience, not with the "AFTER" experience, which is more of my goal in finding the best smartphone.

Nokia has hinted that there will be a Lumia version.

[Son]

I got to borrow one for the Red Hot Chili Peppers gig last night. Shot at full zoom. And listen to that sound!



Edit: For comparison's sake, here's what a friend recorded with his HTC Desire XL:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9AXVuGWsVc0

[Son]

Found this on YouTube.

[dragonfli_x]

that's pretty good - the sound is spot on with no clipping or distortion - but your comparison with the other phone is on a completely different sound spectrum from the heavy hitting upbeat tempo vs the mellow "californication" that you perfectly recorded with the 808. Also, your friend seems to be much closer than your location - and potentially closer to the speakers than you were?

still counting up my pennys so I can get one - how in the world do you just "borrow" an 808?! (jealous_)

[Son]

that's pretty good - the sound is spot on with no clipping or distortion - but your comparison with the other phone is on a completely different sound spectrum from the heavy hitting upbeat tempo vs the mellow "californication" that you perfectly recorded with the 808. Also, your friend seems to be much closer than your location - and potentially closer to the speakers than you were?

Well, the beginning of my clip was just as loud as that "Suck My Kiss" clip from my friend's phone. When there's no distortion and other crap, the clip just sounds less loud. There are speakers pretty much everywhere in a stadium concert, so the distance to the stage doesn't really matter, either. I have other clips of some more "chaotic" songs from the gig and the audio is just perfect in them, too.

Why the comparison isn't exactly fair is that my friend recorded his clip with a ~2-year-old HTC.

The other two phones in this comparison clip seem to be Galaxy S2 and iPhone 4. Judging by how the iPhone is pretty good at recording loud sound, the "smartphone A" must be iPhone and "smartphone B" the Galaxy S2. Some phones just don't handle loud sound.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p8RHQC0eS_k#t=1m38s

[dragonfli_x]

i still would have loved to hear the n8 recording as a frame of reference...

BTW, just made my purchase! BEST SMART CAMERA PHONE EVER!!!

[Son]

[zerotosixty]

This phone's camera is awesome, but I still can't believe people are buying Symbian phones. I've owned so many Nokia N series phones, and yes, they were great...5 years ago.

[Sentinelist]

This phone's camera is awesome, but I still can't believe people are buying Symbian phones. I've owned so many Nokia N series phones, and yes, they were great...5 years ago.

This (again!). It's several months later from the OP and this is the first I've heard of this model. Sounds like an amazing niche model that few will buy, if it's even still available.

That being said, I really hope Nokia + WM gets on its own feet soon as a credible 3rd player in the iOS and Android market- it's a great business pairing. I was a huge Nokia fanboi before the iPhone.