Canon 5D MKIII

[Mk1Racer]

So honest question. Should I spend money on a used 5DMKII or a new under warranty 7D?

I don't really NEED either. But I'm thinking about building another cinema rig.

It really comes down to what features you need. For primarily a video rig, I'd say the 7D. If you shoot action stuff like sports, I'd also say the 7D. If you're doing studio work, it may give the nod to the 7D. And while a new 7D body may be $1600 and a refurb 5DII from Canon is $1760, if you want to do a real apples to apples price comparison, you should know that you can get a refurb 7D through Canon's Loyalty Program (google it) for <$1090 + your local sales tax. I got mine last year, and I think it was $1163 TMD. Looked like a brand new camera (story was that a lot of the CLP so called 'refurbs' were actually overstock returns). Put probably 15k - 20k clicks on it, and hasn't had any issues.

Back to the topic at hand, I'm excited about the 5DIII, but don't see myself buying one any time soon. I'm looking forward to what the trickle-down is to the next iteration of the 7D. I'll probably replace my backup 40D sometime late this year. It would be nice if the next version of the 7D is out, or coming soon.

I also don't see myself picking up a used 5DII, as it doesn't fit my needs as well as a 7D.

One of the things I like, is the longer 'cycle time' on the higher end Canon's. It was ~3.5 years between the launch of the 5DII and the 5DIII. If the 7D replacement hits this Fall, it will be 3 years since the 7D was announced. That's a lot longer than the usual 12-18 month cycle time has been (7D was announced ~ 1 year after the 50D). It would seem that things are starting to stabilize w.r.t. DSLR technology (at least that's how I interpret longer cycle times).

[NiceTTs_13]

i want one but i think i'll be sticking with my d3100 til college is over

[wheeltowheel]

I honestly prefer everything about the 7D, from body design/feel, to the crop.

Which is completely dependent upon what lens you are using

[Village Idiot™]

It really comes down to what features you need. For primarily a video rig, I'd say the 7D.

Why? If everyone and their mother is buying 5D MKII's for video, what makes a 7D better?

[JacksSenseOfRejection]

I'm not sure how familiar you are with either, but for cinema purposes,

Oh I know a thing or two

Obviously the major thing that the 7d has that the 5dmkii doesn't is the 60fps thing. But I'm not sure how important that is to me.

I rarely use it to a point that I try to find excuses to use.

Having a full frame sensor would be nice. I've shot video a LOT on both, they're both great cameras. I guess all I'm really asking is if the price break on a refurb 5DMKII, once the MKIII is released, will be a better deal than getting a 7D and Lens combo from Adorama or the like.

[amorganw]

Which is completely dependent upon what lens you are using

Not really. I have never felt the need to go wider. For what I shoot and my style, I prefer having 320mm vs 200mm on a FF. And the difference between 14mm and 22mm is irrelevant for me too. 22 is plenty wide so I'm fine with that.

Why? If everyone and their mother is buying 5D MKII's for video, what makes a 7D better?

Price for one. It certainly is no worse quality wise over the 5D. You can integrate them seemlessly. So why spend $800 more? I personally find that with FF, the DoF is incredible unrealistic, and stopping down isn't always an option. Again, this is my preference, there is no right or wrong, but I don't like that because a super shallow depth of field is attainable, everyone does it just for the sake of it. You have less options for audio with the 7D, but if you're running seperate sound as I do most often, it becomes a non-issue.

I'm not dissing on the 5D, guys. I own one, and am glad that I do. But from my experience, I see no true benefit of the 5D over the 7D for video. Atleast in the manner that I use it.

Sorry, for getting OT. Back to the 5DIII....

[Mk1Racer]

Why? If everyone and their mother is buying 5D MKII's for video, what makes a 7D better?

Higher frame rate, and lower cost for comparable performance.

I guess all I'm really asking is if the price break on a refurb 5DMKII, once the MKIII is released, will be a better deal than getting a 7D and Lens combo from Adorama or the like.

There's a big discussion over at POTN right now on the price of the 5DII, now that the 5DIII is out. The general feeling is that the price of used 5DII's has dropped by ~$200 now that the 5DIII is being sold. I guess it remains to be seen. There's too much 'noise' right now to tell what's really going to happen. I do think that the price of the 5D classic will come down though.

The one bright spot is, w/ the 5DIII out, Canon my add the 5DII back to the CLP program. If that's the case, I'd guess that price for a refurb'd 5DII, direct from Canon, w/ a 90-day warranty, will be $1500 +/- + your local sales tax. Not to shabby! I won't be buying one though, as I shoot action sports, and the 7D works better for me.

[VWolfs]

pre-ordered mine from B&H as well. So stoked!

[Village Idiot™]

Cancelled my pre-order. Bought Dynalites instead. I'll buy one once the price comes down a little.

[CarlWeathersIsNotKony]

That's a healthy jump from the MKII...

I'll be keeping my 7D for awhile!!

[azul]

Cancelled my pre-order. Bought Dynalites instead. I'll buy one once the price comes down a little.

If you use soft boxes, I suggest getting a 4040 head with the frosted dome. They throw a more scattered even light in the box vs. the built in reflector type head of the 2040.

[Village Idiot™]

If you use soft boxes, I suggest getting a 4040 head with the frosted dome. They throw a more scattered even light in the box vs. the built in reflector type head of the 2040.

I found a mint 4040 head on Amazon marketplace for $300. It's in my light bag.

[71sbeetle]

Loving my 5D3 so far

[Bubba 2.0 GLS]

I just got mine in, can't wait to use it later on today.

[AC Schnitzer]

You guys are lucky!! The best feeling ever, I remember when I pre order my 5D MKII. I do want the MKII but can't justify spending the extra grand on a few to little changes. Although the fast focusing would be great but I have a 1D's MKII for that purpose.

[71sbeetle]

the 5D3 focusing speed is out of this world !!!

[Veedubin02]

the 5D3 focusing speed is out of this world !!!

This is what I dont need to read. Looking to make the jump into the FF world and I like what the MKIII has but I am leaning more towards a Nikon D700 due to costs. Guess Ill keep watching reviews.

[71sbeetle]

This is what I dont need to read. Looking to make the jump into the FF world and I like what the MKIII has but I am leaning more towards a Nikon D700 due to costs. Guess Ill keep watching reviews.

Did I mention it was able to focus in almost total darkness ? VERY impressive.

[Bubba 2.0 GLS]

This is what I dont need to read. Looking to make the jump into the FF world and I like what the MKIII has but I am leaning more towards a Nikon D700 due to costs. Guess Ill keep watching reviews.

I owned a D700 and currently shooting with the 5DIII. I will update this thread with a comparison when I had more time to mess with the camera.

I would have had one right now but I was using a new Sigma 50 that has focus issues so I don't want to knock a camera because of a faulty lens. I'll slap the 135L on it and put it to the test tomorrow.

[Bubba 2.0 GLS]

The 5DIII was my first venture into Canon land after 4+ years of shooting with Nikon. So this will be a comparison between the D700 and the 5DIII.

As a Nikon shooter I have to say the 5D controls are a bit odd to me. I tend to hit the back wheel when switching focus points which adjusts my Shutter speed. I may have to switch the dials around so that controls Aperture instead due to the locking feature.

In terms of ergonomics it feels quite grippy in the hand, however if you have big hands like myself getting the vertical grip will be must for it to be much more comfortable.

Photo quality I must say I am not a pixel peeper, I go by which is more pleasing to the eye, so it goes to the 5D. The tonality in the Canon sensor to me is very pleasing out of camera. Plus it doesn't hurt that it has 22MP instead of the 12MP the D700 has, it always easier to shrink a print that to expand a print.

Now of course that doesn't matter if you don't plan on printing or spending some time in front of a computer. The D700 gave a very neutral tonality and I was able to make very clean prints from the 12MP sensor.

AF speed on the 5DIII is about the same as the D700 from what I can tell. So it seems that Canon fixed that ancient system on previous 5D models. Even though the 5DII is a great camera from what I've heard minus its problematic AF.

You have 2 options at the 1500-2000 range, the 5DII and the D700. At the 2500-2800 range you have the D3 and at the 3000-3500 range you have the 5DIII and D800.

Lens on the Nikon platform are expensive the 24mm 1.4G cost 1600 used and the Canon 24II is about 1200 used. However newer Canon releases have been getting a mark up as with the newer 24-70II costing 2200. So its really a toss up with lenses if you plan on going new only.


Now which camera should you get?
If you need video features your options are limited to the 5DII 5DIII and the D800.
If you need proper AF speed take away the 5DII.
If you plan on doing massive prints the D800 is your camera.

But lets be real, the D700 is an extremely GREAT camera. If I didn't need to learn video and had a family member that went with Nikon instead of Canon I would have stayed the course with Nikon. So to me the 5D is a 3500 expense to get a good AF system, video, and help out a family member with some lenses.

If you already have Nikon glass, don't need to make large prints or need to learn video, buy the D700. It is a photographers camera at heart.

If you already have Canon EF glass, remember you can't mount EF-S lenses on their FF camera, test out the 5DII with the focus recompose technique.



TLDR:

To me as much as I like the Canon 5DIII the 3500 price tag is too much to pay for it.

Get the D700 if you need a pure photography camera without the bells and whistle of video, and if you already have Nikon FX glass. Yes you can use DX glass on the D700.

Get the 5DII if you can live with the focus and recompose technique and if you already have Canon EF glass.

Get the 5DIII if you have the money, and want a good camera with the bells and whistles.

Get the D800 if you have the money, want a good camera with the bells and whistles, and plan on making huge prints.

[keystervr6]

mine shows up tomorrow. can't wait. this years wedding season is gonna be sweet.

[keystervr6]

wow. I shot with it this afternoon just a bit and it's freakin crazy awesome, but when the sun went down and I started shooting at 12800 I knew I was in love.

[hrama803]

I want to see some shots!

[dieselraver]

pre-ordered. I'll be selling my 5D MKII with a grip for a good price. The paint is wearing by the shutter button from my might death grip, but it has a lower shutter count and a nearly brand new shutter assembly.

how much? seriously?!

[Mk1Racer]

@Bubba,

You've also got the 7D option w/ Canon for both video, quick AF, and fast shooting (8fps). And at a considerably lower price. Considered by most to be a much better sports body than a 5DII. Granted, it is an APS-C body, but I don't see that as necessarily a down side.

[Village Idiot™]

how much? seriously?!

Have to wait for me to sell my Speedotrons first. I just bought a Dynalite setup for mobile shooting instead of the 5D MKIII

[Bubba 2.0 GLS]

@Bubba,

You've also got the 7D option w/ Canon for both video, quick AF, and fast shooting (8fps). And at a considerably lower price. Considered by most to be a much better sports body than a 5DII. Granted, it is an APS-C body, but I don't see that as necessarily a down side.

Yea, you also have the D7000 as well on the Nikon side, but Veedubbin was looking at the jump to FF so I stayed with FF options only. Currently those are the only option available unless this Canon rumor of a entry level FF comes to reality this year.

[Mk1Racer]

Yea, you also have the D7000 as well on the Nikon side, but Veedubbin was looking at the jump to FF so I stayed with FF options only. Currently those are the only option available unless this Canon rumor of a entry level FF comes to reality this year.

It will be interesting to see if they actually launch anything. I wonder what the price point will be? With the price of used 5DII's dropping like a stone (refurb from Canon for <$1500 + tax), and plenty of 5DC's still kicking around, I have to wonder how they'll position it. I would imagine it's got to be somewhere in the $800 - $1000 range. But what features will it have at that price? The 5DII is still an excellent camera. Can't see spending $1000 on something w/ significantly 'inferior' specs. And if the specs are close to a 5DII for that price it will totally kill the secondary market for the 5DII.

[71sbeetle]

FYI, I sold my 5D2 with grip and 36605 actuations in perfect shape for $1900 just a couple of days ago. It was a nice camera but the AF was killing it.

[Veedubin02]

Yea, you also have the D7000 as well on the Nikon side, but Veedubbin was looking at the jump to FF so I stayed with FF options only. Currently those are the only option available unless this Canon rumor of a entry level FF comes to reality this year.

Thanks for that post by the way. I ended up with a D700. Found a new at their new price of 2200, last one from Frys. They have been sold out everywhere although are expected to restock soon. Adorama faked me out and got rid of their bakc order notice only to find out they were still on back order. Called Frys, said they had one left I said yes please. Use this for about a year, get a lens or two other than my 50/1.4 and then look at the D800 or whatever else may be on its way then.

[Bubba 2.0 GLS]

It will be interesting to see if they actually launch anything. I wonder what the price point will be? With the price of used 5DII's dropping like a stone (refurb from Canon for <$1500 + tax), and plenty of 5DC's still kicking around, I have to wonder how they'll position it. I would imagine it's got to be somewhere in the $800 - $1000 range. But what features will it have at that price? The 5DII is still an excellent camera. Can't see spending $1000 on something w/ significantly 'inferior' specs. And if the specs are close to a 5DII for that price it will totally kill the secondary market for the 5DII.

If they launch a entry level FF at the price point of 800-1000 it'll probably use a ****ty AF system, plastic body without weatherproofing, limited ISO capability, etc. I am assuming their entry level FF camera would be in the 1500-2000 range though. Canon has been on a mission with marking up prices, so a entry level FF would be costly.

What they should do is take that 5Dc sensor, put it in a newer body with somewhat better AF and price it at 1000 and they would make a serious killing.

---

@Veedubbin no problem, but I highly suggest taking a look at FredMiranda.com for some lenses, you will get a good deal on there with the amount of non-pros/pros rotating lenses out. Also enjoy the D700 I sold mine prior to the D800 announcement and still miss it.

[Mk1Racer]

FYI, I sold my 5D2 with grip and 36605 actuations in perfect shape for $1900 just a couple of days ago. It was a nice camera but the AF was killing it.

You did very well, as you could have gotten a refurb'd one, direct from Canon, for ~$1500 + tax. That's w/ a 90-day warranty A new BG-E6 grip is $200 - $230

$1900 for a gripped 5DII w/ >36k clicks is a phenomenal price (for you).

If they launch a entry level FF at the price point of 800-1000 it'll probably use a ****ty AF system, plastic body without weatherproofing, limited ISO capability, etc. I am assuming their entry level FF camera would be in the 1500-2000 range though. Canon has been on a mission with marking up prices, so a entry level FF would be costly.

What they should do is take that 5Dc sensor, put it in a newer body with somewhat better AF and price it at 1000 and they would make a serious killing.

I really can't see Canon spending any R&D money on something that's as out-dated as a 5Dc sensor. With the prices of the used / refurb'd 5DII's where they are (~$1500), the $1500-$2000 entry-level FF would have to have some significant improvements over the 5DII (like better AF). I'd like to see a 5DII w/ the 5DIII AF system, but that's probably not going to happen either, as it will steal sales from the 5DIII.

[Bubba 2.0 GLS]

I really can't see Canon spending any R&D money on something that's as out-dated as a 5Dc sensor. With the prices of the used / refurb'd 5DII's where they are (~$1500), the $1500-$2000 entry-level FF would have to have some significant improvements over the 5DII (like better AF). I'd like to see a 5DII w/ the 5DIII AF system, but that's probably not going to happen either, as it will steal sales from the 5DIII.

The whole point of it is to be sub $1500. So its going to have limited MP, probably around 12-18MP, not that great AF, no weather sealing. If they really plan on leaving the 5DII at the $2000 mark its not going to be something that can kill revenue.

Best option for them is use a proven sensor (5Dc) so they don't have to waste a lot of money on R&D and put it in a new body with a flippy screen. Call it the Canon 6D and be done with it. You gotta remember this is supposed to be the "Rebel" of the FF line. Canon is all about making money, as seen with the 5DIII, not losing it.

Of course the whole idea of an entry level full frame could kill the sales of the 7D, & 60D as well. So who knows what they will do.

[71sbeetle]

You did very well, as you could have gotten a refurb'd one, direct from Canon, for ~$1500 + tax. That's w/ a 90-day warranty A new BG-E6 grip is $200 - $230

$1900 for a gripped 5DII w/ >36k clicks is a phenomenal price (for you).

Actually I had it listed at $2000 on Craigslist and had quite a few responses, but everyone had to wait for the Saturday or Sunday to drive to where I live to come see it, this guy was able to come right away and offered me $1900 cash. I figured I'd rather let it go for $1900 right then vs waiting for 7-8 people to come see it the next day for $100 more.

[Mk1Racer]

Actually I had it listed at $2000 on Craigslist and had quite a few responses, but everyone had to wait for the Saturday or Sunday to drive to where I live to come see it, this guy was able to come right away and offered me $1900 cash. I figured I'd rather let it go for $1900 right then vs waiting for 7-8 people to come see it the next day for $100 more.

As I said, good for you for getting that much for it. Here's one that just sold on POTN for $1450, shipped.

http://photography-on-the.net/forum/....php?t=1167180

@bubba,

I expect them to drop production of the 5DII shortly, now that the 5DIII is out. In fact, they probably already have, and are selling off existing inventory. Maybe they'll "de-tune" the 5DII and offer it as a lower-cost option to go FF. I don't know if they could stuff it into a 60D body or not. As I said, don't see a lot of ROI for developing a whole new body.

And Canon emphatically split the APS-C line w/ the 60D and 7D. The 60D took the xxD series down to the Rebel level, and the 7D defined a new level of semi-pro APS-C bodies. I expect will see the next version of the 7D this Fall, as it was release in Aug, '09, and is about due for an upgrade. Keep in mind that the 'duty cycle' on the new Rebels has been ~18 months (was also true for the 30D/40D/50D). I'd like to see what they're going to do w/ the next version of the 7D. Not even sure where they will go. Hopefully they'll improve the high-ISO capabilities. Maybe figure out how to get an APS-H sensor to work w/ EF-S lenses?