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    Thread: Are FSIs as "bad" as I'm reading?

    1. 03-02-2012 07:30 AM #1
      I'm starting to second guess buying a '07 Passat after doing a bunch of reading, stories of cam follower disasters and people having to replace it every 5K or 10k miles has me a bit spooked. So is it as bad as people make out on The Internetz or what? Would a TSI be a better choice? I know, a whole 'nother can of worms.

    2. 03-02-2012 07:54 AM #2
      Nope they are not as bad as you may think.. yes you will need to add the cam follower into your oil changes..

      If it helps I have an 05.5 A4 with a gt76 and currently pushing 174,000 with no issues.. The gt76 has been on the car for the last 40k+



      vizi

    3. Member dmorrow's Avatar
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      03-02-2012 07:58 AM #3
      I don't add the followers into my oil changes. I am at 124k miles, replaced the first follower at around 70k miles, second at around 105k and both of them looked good. Revo stage 1 since 25k miles. I have had very almost no problems with my engine.

    4. Member bostonaudi1's Avatar
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      03-02-2012 08:17 AM #4
      FSI motors are rugged. Just replace the known weak points with newer improved components (DV, PCV). Just check cam follower now and then.

      The one thing that annoys me a bit (much more than above) is the oil consumption. BPY motors tend to drink it for breakfast lunch and dinner (and desert too).
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      03-02-2012 08:57 AM #5
      Quote Originally Posted by bostonaudi1 View Post
      FSI motors are rugged. Just replace the known weak points with newer improved components (DV, PCV). Just check cam follower now and then.

      The one thing that annoys me a bit (much more than above) is the oil consumption. BPY motors tend to drink it for breakfast lunch and dinner (and desert too).
      this...
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      03-02-2012 09:33 AM #6
      Quote Originally Posted by bostonaudi1 View Post
      The one thing that annoys me a bit (much more than above) is the oil consumption. BPY motors tend to drink it for breakfast lunch and dinner (and desert too).
      no doubt . i need a tanker parked in my back yard

      70k on my 07 GTI. APR flashed since it was 2 months old & lives in the 93 program. my CEL just came on...looks to be the N205 valve

      http://www.ecstuning.com/Volkswagen-...ical/ES281138/

      anyone know where i can find an instructional on how to replace it?

      going to change the cam follower soon

    7. Member xJOKERx's Avatar
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      03-02-2012 10:25 AM #7
      Quote Originally Posted by bostonaudi1 View Post
      FSI motors are rugged. Just replace the known weak points with newer improved components (DV, PCV). Just check cam follower now and then.

      The one thing that annoys me a bit (much more than above) is the oil consumption. BPY motors tend to drink it for breakfast lunch and dinner (and desert too).

      this

      check oil whenever you fill up with gas, top off in-between changes and your good.

    8. 03-02-2012 10:37 AM #8
      If you have all the latest oem fixes and revisions (latest version DV, PVC, flapper motor, cam) the only thing you really need to pay attention to is the cam follower. Fortunately most of us who have owned our FSI since 07' have had all these things addressed by now. I change mine out every 20k miles after having the original one punch thru at 80k miles (cam and pump covered under extended warranty). Crazy as it may sound I would need to see records that the follower FAILED and the latest revision cam was replaced under warranty before buying one. I can deal with old revision DV and PVC (easy oem and aftermarket fixes). I do not want to be replacing a camshaft because a follower failed and only a pump was replaced. or its simply a low mile car with soft cam lobe destined to fail in the future. I dont too care to have an expensive flapper motor replaced out of pocket either but I guess I could deal with that.

    9. Junior Member Scum Frog's Avatar
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      03-02-2012 11:16 AM #9
      As stated the Cam Follower is the weak point.

      With my '07 Jetta 2.0T the dealer did the following on warrenty right after I bought it last spring and have not had any issues since.

      Cam Follower
      Camshaft
      Fuel Pump
      Tensioner
      Adjuster
      "Get in, sit down, shut up, and hang on"

    10. Member ROH ECHT's Avatar
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      03-02-2012 12:38 PM #10
      The cam follower isn't as much an issue with the oem hpfp, but will require checking/replacing the follower every 5k to 20k miles if you upgrade the hpfp.

      Other than that, regular maintenance should include keeping the intake valves free of carbon build-up by either adding a catch-can system or doing a blow-by cleaning of them every 10k to 20k miles. Both will slow the build-up down but will not completely stop it. So eventually you will be getting mysterious misfires and you will need to do a manual valve cleaning.

      Other than these two, you have regular maintenance. Fluid changing, plugs, belts(timing & accessory), coils, filters, and occasionally a bad pcv & or breather tube, and DV.

      If you'd rather not be bothered or are more of a hands-on person, you can set these up to accommodate either style.
      K04 PLAY...`07 GTI/DM K04+ Tunning/AWE DV/APR HPFP/S3 INJ's&fmic/RS4 fprv/FORGE fmic & T-B HOSE/TECH.TUNING TB/BSH PCV&MOUNT's/NSP BOOST GAGE/AP Lite-PULLEY/NEUS. P-FLO&BOOST PIPES/GIAC DSG Tune/13.2"BBK/BILSTEIN B8 DAMPERS/W.A.L.K./H&R SS SPRINGS+F&R-ARB's/TSW 8X18 NURB's...ZOOM DIS! 2007 Volkswagen GTI : 12.823 @ 112.050 MPH

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      03-02-2012 02:57 PM #11
      Don't forget the carbon buildup problem that plagues all the direct-injection engines and robs the low-end torque and fuel mileage.

      But all in all, the engine is only as bad as the owner makes it!! I work on these cars daily....usually 4-6 FSI cars in there. If the owner takes care of the car, addresses the known issues as they come up, and uses the correct oil......they have very minimal issues. But those who use Joe Blow's $29.95 oil change special every 5-7K miles is just asking for issues! Chains rattle, followers wear quicker than normal and tensioners fail causing engines to fail!!

      My GLI is a VERY early 2006 and was built in 2005. You name the FSI issues and it has had them and been addressed. But it's gotten me to 169K miles without anything catastrohic happening. Been an overall blast and is heavily modified. But the engine still holds up strong.
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      03-02-2012 05:52 PM #12
      Quote Originally Posted by ROH ECHT View Post
      The cam follower isn't as much an issue with the oem hpfp, but will require checking/replacing the follower every 5k to 20k miles if you upgrade the hpfp.
      good point...a buddy of mine found out the hard way ($$$$)

    13. 03-02-2012 06:09 PM #13
      Thanks for the feedback. This is a wagon to get me & the fam around, I'll get some rims and maybe I'll get it flashed, but I don't know if I'll go down that road since I have the Corrado for fun. Just want something dependable and semi fun to drive on a daily basis.

    14. 03-02-2012 06:22 PM #14
      182,000 here on my '06. love it.
      especially after VOA sent me my rebate check for the cam/HPFP replacement at 85,000. ....and the title....

      The only thing they still owe me for is $$ for the entire AC system that had to be replaced since the compressor siezed and shot metal filings through the whole system. I think I'll be waiting a while...

    15. Member xtravbx's Avatar
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      03-03-2012 12:08 AM #15
      No, it's a great motor.

      I love my car, and have not put a dime in it except for maintenance.

      Which means oil change & cam follower.

      My wife has a TSI tiguan, and her car does start easier than mine. My FSI cranks once and catches on the second crank. Her TSI catches when i glance at the key just right. But seriously I do notice that it starts AMAZING while mine starts really well - if that makes any sense.

    16. 03-03-2012 01:26 AM #16
      Personally

      I change the oil every 5k

      Cam Followers every 40k

      My car consumes 1qt of oil between changes.

      I think it's a great motor. Haven't had a single issue other than ignition coils, but my car is early and had the first revision coils stock, newer coils are much better.

    17. 03-03-2012 08:07 AM #17
      Quote Originally Posted by bostonaudi1 View Post
      FSI motors are rugged. Just replace the known weak points with newer improved components (DV, PCV). Just check cam follower now and then.

      The one thing that annoys me a bit (much more than above) is the oil consumption. BPY motors tend to drink it for breakfast lunch and dinner (and desert too).

      No lie, mine does not drink any oil and I do my oil changes every 5k and check the follower and replace the CF at 10k every time.... Theres a few of us on Audizine in the B7 section that don't burn any oil but those people all have an 05.5 A4 model like me...


      vizi

    18. Member xtravbx's Avatar
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      03-03-2012 11:29 AM #18
      Quote Originally Posted by bostonaudi1 View Post
      FSI motors are rugged. Just replace the known weak points with newer improved components (DV, PCV). Just check cam follower now and then.

      The one thing that annoys me a bit (much more than above) is the oil consumption. BPY motors tend to drink it for breakfast lunch and dinner (and desert too).

      Something is wrong with your motor or PCV system.

      That is NOT normal behavior.

      I have 40k on the clock and barely use ANY oil, like other people have stated. I just changed out my DV to the latest version, and was prepared to have oil dump out of the piping on me - it was perfectly clean inside.

    19. Member bostonaudi1's Avatar
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      03-03-2012 09:55 PM #19
      Quote Originally Posted by xtravbx View Post
      Something is wrong with your motor or PCV system.

      That is NOT normal behavior.

      I have 40k on the clock and barely use ANY oil, like other people have stated. I just changed out my DV to the latest version, and was prepared to have oil dump out of the piping on me - it was perfectly clean inside.
      Is your motor stock?

      Talk to any techs who work on these daily, and the general consensus is these motors tend to use rather high amounts of oil. Admittedly likely worse with higher boost than normal. My engine is in perfect running order, just likes oil. But this should tell you everything, the bar set by VW itself for abnormal consumption is 1qt per 1000 mi, that's 5 quarts between 5k oil changes! Normal?
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      03-03-2012 10:15 PM #20
      I am so tired of the cam follower hype. Its not really an issue anymore with the revised parts

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      03-03-2012 11:19 PM #21
      Quote Originally Posted by theguy1084 View Post
      I am so tired of the cam follower hype. Its not really an issue anymore with the revised parts
      That is not entirely true. It's still a maint. item and must be checked/replaced. I've replaced just as many "B" revision camshafts at the shop in 2007-2008 cars. So it's still a fact of just catching the follower before it starts to wear through. Once all the wear-in coating is gone(the black coating).....it doesn't take long to have the follower crack and start to fly apart!

      But no.....it's not as bad as people make it out to be. The engine is overall pretty good, just a little more issue than others. The 1.8T Passat had it's oil pressure/sludge issues. The FSI has it's cam follower issue. The TSI has it's intake manifold problems. There are weak points to all the engines.
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    22. Member xtravbx's Avatar
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      03-03-2012 11:54 PM #22
      Quote Originally Posted by bostonaudi1 View Post
      Is your motor stock?

      Talk to any techs who work on these daily, and the general consensus is these motors tend to use rather high amounts of oil. Admittedly likely worse with higher boost than normal. My engine is in perfect running order, just likes oil. But this should tell you everything, the bar set by VW itself for abnormal consumption is 1qt per 1000 mi, that's 5 quarts between 5k oil changes! Normal?
      I can't say I talk with techs daily. I can say that my motor consumes less oil than what I hear other people's motors eat up. It makes me think that something is not correct is all - and that people should push to have things resolved under the power train warranty if possible.

      My ecu is APR flashed, neuspeed intake, and will have water/meth added this week

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      03-04-2012 12:11 AM #23
      Quote Originally Posted by jhines_06gli View Post
      That is not entirely true. It's still a maint. item and must be checked/replaced. I've replaced just as many "B" revision camshafts at the shop in 2007-2008 cars. So it's still a fact of just catching the follower before it starts to wear through. Once all the wear-in coating is gone(the black coating).....it doesn't take long to have the follower crack and start to fly apart!

      But no.....it's not as bad as people make it out to be. The engine is overall pretty good, just a little more issue than others. The 1.8T Passat had it's oil pressure/sludge issues. The FSI has it's cam follower issue. The TSI has it's intake manifold problems. There are weak points to all the engines.
      What I am saying is that 3 people post cam and follower failure and now it's "every" engine. That coating doesn't last long but just because it's gone doesn't mean it is bad

    24. Member xtravbx's Avatar
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      03-04-2012 09:53 AM #24
      Quote Originally Posted by theguy1084 View Post
      What I am saying is that 3 people post cam and follower failure and now it's "every" engine. That coating doesn't last long but just because it's gone doesn't mean it is bad
      Yes it does. The coating is what keeps the follower "slick/smooth" and prevents it from damaging the camshaft, and the camshaft damaging the follower.

      The follower needs to be replaced when the coating is wearing or worn off.

      For a part that was NEVER listed as a regular maintenance item for the vehicle - becoming a regular maintenance item or catastrophic failure will occur, most people would consider that bad, or a flawed design.

      Does it bother me? No. Does it bother most automotive enthusiasts who can turn a wrench on their own? Probably not - but it still is not correct.

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      03-04-2012 12:14 PM #25
      Quote Originally Posted by 90Corrado View Post
      I'm starting to second guess buying a '07 Passat after doing a bunch of reading, stories of cam follower disasters and people having to replace it every 5K or 10k miles has me a bit spooked. So is it as bad as people make out on The Internetz or what? Would a TSI be a better choice? I know, a whole 'nother can of worms.
      there are some bad cars out there but most if them are good. I checked my follower at 55000km and it was fine. Will do so again, NBD to look. Stay on top of things with good oil. Mine isn't burning more than 1L/8000km. As with any high performance machinery, it serves you well to keep it in optimum health.


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      03-04-2012 04:05 PM #26
      The biggest issue with cam follower wear is simply oil usage. 10,000 mile oil changes are too much. Some dealership are not using VW FSI approved oils. Car owners are not changing the oil or using the correct oil, etc etc etc.


      Use good oil (the correct approved oil). Don't beat the snot out of the car when it's cold. Check the follower at your oil changes and change the oil ever 5k.
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      03-04-2012 08:06 PM #27
      Quote Originally Posted by Arin@APR View Post
      The biggest issue with cam follower wear is simply oil usage. 10,000 mile oil changes are too much. Some dealership are not using VW FSI approved oils. Car owners are not changing the oil or using the correct oil, etc etc etc.


      Use good oil (the correct approved oil). Don't beat the snot out of the car when it's cold. Check the follower at your oil changes and change the oil ever 5k.


      if anyone were to read the disclaimers on the 10 k oil change they'd see that almost no one falls into that catagory.

    28. 03-04-2012 08:54 PM #28
      Quote Originally Posted by xtravbx View Post
      Yes it does. The coating is what keeps the follower "slick/smooth" and prevents it from damaging the camshaft, and the camshaft damaging the follower.
      That's not the case. The coating lasts 10k miles tops, and I get at least 40k out of a follower. It's my opinion that it's a break in coating meant to last until the follower and camshaft wear in together.

      In any case I can show you a picture of a follower @20k with no coating on it at all and the same follower @40k with a camshaft that's smooth as glass

    29. Member theguy1084's Avatar
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      03-04-2012 09:45 PM #29
      Quote Originally Posted by blackvento36 View Post
      That's not the case. The coating lasts 10k miles tops, and I get at least 40k out of a follower. It's my opinion that it's a break in coating meant to last until the follower and camshaft wear in together.

      In any case I can show you a picture of a follower @20k with no coating on it at all and the same follower @40k with a camshaft that's smooth as glass
      Agreed. I have a follower sitting in my garage right now with about 5-8k miles and the coating is almost gone. It looked just like one I took at 20k. I replaced it at 20k only because I put an apr hpfp on and again in another 5-8k because I when big turbo and had the head off and apart anyway. Every oil change? Give me a break! I'm pushing 142bar and not the least bit concerned. I'm do for an oil change soon and the rebel in me isn't going even going to check it. Oh no!

    30. Member xtravbx's Avatar
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      03-04-2012 10:12 PM #30
      Quote Originally Posted by blackvento36 View Post
      That's not the case. The coating lasts 10k miles tops, and I get at least 40k out of a follower. It's my opinion that it's a break in coating meant to last until the follower and camshaft wear in together.

      In any case I can show you a picture of a follower @20k with no coating on it at all and the same follower @40k with a camshaft that's smooth as glass

      Hey - if I stand corrected, that's great. I'm just going by what the point of the DLC coating actually is. If it lasts beyond that - great. But the DLC coating is to protect the follower and the camshaft.

    31. Member theguy1084's Avatar
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      03-04-2012 10:59 PM #31
      Quote Originally Posted by xtravbx View Post
      Hey - if I stand corrected, that's great. I'm just going by what the point of the DLC coating actually is. If it lasts beyond that - great. But the DLC coating is to protect the follower and the camshaft.
      Actually your oil protects your engine parts more than any coating will

    32. Member 87socorro's Avatar
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      03-04-2012 11:20 PM #32
      Follower is not that bad you only have to purchase one and get Vw's parts warranty anytime it goes just go back to the dealer with the worn down piece and they replace it for free

    33. Member dmorrow's Avatar
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      03-05-2012 10:08 PM #33
      Quote Originally Posted by 87socorro View Post
      Follower is not that bad you only have to purchase one and get Vw's parts warranty anytime it goes just go back to the dealer with the worn down piece and they replace it for free
      So you're saying you take back your worn followers (assuming without a hole worn through it) they replace it? Have you actually done this?

    34. Member jhines_06gli's Avatar
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      03-06-2012 01:10 PM #34
      Quote Originally Posted by 87socorro View Post
      Follower is not that bad you only have to purchase one and get Vw's parts warranty anytime it goes just go back to the dealer with the worn down piece and they replace it for free
      Good luck with that. I can assure 99.9999% of dealers are not going to replace it for free for you. The follower is a maint. item. Do you take your oil filter back after you use it and request a parts warranty on it because it's wearing?
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      03-06-2012 02:55 PM #35
      Quote Originally Posted by jhines_06gli View Post
      Good luck with that. I can assure 99.9999% of dealers are not going to replace it for free for you. The follower is a maint. item. Do you take your oil filter back after you use it and request a parts warranty on it because it's wearing?
      The follower is NOT a maintenance item.

      VW has a 1 year parts warranty. They would replace failed batteries all of the time when I worked there as long as it was with in a year.

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