Engine 'hiccup' at 2750k

[zcar4me]

I wonder that as well along with wondering if re-gapping the spark plugs (as some have mentioned) would help. But if this were the problem with tuned TSI's, I would think more people would have problems. It also doesn't explain the intermittent very slight lack of smoothness at 2700 rpms I feel in stock mode.

Speaking of re-gapping, I'm curious what type of spark plugs you're running? OEM, NGK iridium, Bosch?
I'm tempted to pull my plugs, just to see what the electrodes look like.

[irongrey]

Speaking of re-gapping, I'm curious what type of spark plugs you're running? OEM, NGK iridium, Bosch?
I'm tempted to pull my plugs, just to see what the electrodes look like.

My plugs are stock. I had them replaced at the 40k service. i imagine if they looked beat up in some way they would have told me.

We've been having some warmer days and cooler mornings and as i have always noticed, the hiccup seems to be worse in warmer weather. That must be some kind of clue as to the problem.

[Brett_CC]

I've noticed the hiccup to be more subtle when I turn off traction control. I swear this has something to do with the ECU but who knows. I just really hope someone gets to the bottom of this as I simply do not have enough vw engine knowledge.

[irongrey]

I've noticed the hiccup to be more subtle when I turn off traction control. I swear this has something to do with the ECU but who knows. I just really hope someone gets to the bottom of this as I simply do not have enough vw engine knowledge.

I'll try turning off traction control.

Taking it back to the shop next week. Regardless of what else they find, I will have them re-gap the plugs.

[snobrdrdan]

the hiccup seems to be worse in warmer weather

How warm?

Could just be heatsoak and high IAT's causing less power

How it's driving.....is it kind of like when you drive with the A/C on (it's sluggish)??

[bordercitymadman]

How warm?

Could just be heatsoak and high IAT's causing less power

How it's driving.....is it kind of like when you drive with the A/C on (it's sluggish)??

I just recently replaced all coils and plugs for this same reason, the hitch did disappear only to come back, this morning i ran the snot out of the car on the freeway and got it real hot to get the hesitation back around the same range you guys talk about. Did full stops and WOT and sure enough it is there. Got back to my garage and re-gapped the plugs to .28 and took it out for a spin again, and no more hesitation, i really bashed it to get it hot again. Its around 74 today but sun's coming down pretty hard, on a day like this i would still get the hesitation but now i think the re-gapping got rid of it.

[irongrey]

I just recently replaced all coils and plugs for this same reason, the hitch did disappear only to come back, this morning i ran the snot out of the car on the freeway and got it real hot to get the hesitation back around the same range you guys talk about. Did full stops and WOT and sure enough it is there. Got back to my garage and re-gapped the plugs to .28 and took it out for a spin again, and no more hesitation, i really bashed it to get it hot again. Its around 74 today but sun's coming down pretty hard, on a day like this i would still get the hesitation but now i think the re-gapping got rid of it.

Awesome. That will be my next move.

Getting the new coils did help some. It just seems there is something happening here on the margins which is why the misfires are not so bad as to trigger CELs. Re-gapping the plugs sounds like just the thing.

Pls let us know if your hiccups come back.

[irongrey]

How warm?

Could just be heatsoak and high IAT's causing less power

How it's driving.....is it kind of like when you drive with the A/C on (it's sluggish)??

No, it's not like that at all. Under WOT, there are no hesitations. No power loss at all except right at 2700 rpms under partial throttle. Worse when it is warm and under a load (like going up a hill).

[bordercitymadman]

Yea i get you, once you are out of that range then it kicks in just nicely right? Well hasn't come back as of yet, not holding my breath though. I'll let you know that i had the fuel pump replaced prior to doing the coils and plugs, but that was more serious, it actually stalled.

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[snobrdrdan]

Got back to my garage and re-gapped the plugs to .28 and took it out for a spin again, and no more hesitation

Just out of curiousity, did you measure what your stock plugs were gapped at (after you pulled them)???

[bordercitymadman]

Just out of curiousity, did you measure what your stock plugs were gapped at (after you pulled them)???

Doh! got me there bud! i just noticed it wasn't .28 and adjusted accordingly.

[snobrdrdan]

Doh! got me there bud! i just noticed it wasn't .28 and adjusted accordingly.

I meant your original OEM ones....since you said you just put in new ones

Is .28 what's called for, or just what's been proven to work on our car?
I don't know....that's why I'm asking

[bordercitymadman]

I meant your original OEM ones....since you said you just put in new ones

Is .28 what's called for, or just what's been proven to work on our car?
I don't know....that's why I'm asking

I think i still have the originals somewhere, I'll measure tomorrow. I've read several threads recommending the .28 gap even as small as .26 they don't come gapped at .28 for sure it is bigger, but I'll post it tomorrow.

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[wh1te09gti]

in for answers. i have scheduled complementary check up tomorrow, will mention that to tech, i already pushed coils in they were good 1/8" off after only 3k miles. Looks like every 2nd fuel tank coils should be pushed down. thats just crazy

[irongrey]

I want to keep this thread alive and get as many people who are having this issue as possible communicating. I just found this thread (http://forums.vwvortex.com/showthrea...4#post78090044) where many are talking about the same issue I am having.

To update, neither the new ignition coils nor a new air mass sensor has fixed the problem. Though as has often been the case, I do get several days of hiccup free driving only to have it return. What does that mean, that the hiccup goes away for a few days and then comes back? It makes no sense to me.

[irongrey]

Had a long conversation with my mechanic today about my hesitation. He swears that regapping the plugs will do nothing, that the car isn't making enough power with a stage I tune for that to be an issue. All the same, I'l probably try it next time my car is in.

Other ideas he had were replacing the throttle body or the fuel pump (or at least the cylinder attached to the fuel pump), but both of those are expensive repairs for something that i have no assurance will actually fix the problem.

I asked him about my carbonio and he also felt sure that that wasn't the issue. All the same, i am considering removing it and reflashing the car back to stock and see how it drives. But I am hesitant as i really doubt that would help. I still feel the hesitation in stock, though it is slight.

It is so distinct that the hesitation gets worse in hot weather or if the car sat out in the sun for a while. While in the morning when everything is cool, it runs smooth for quite a while. So I am back to plugging the evaporator purge valve to see if that helps. The way temperature affects the hesitation does point to that valve, that it becomes overactive when the fuel tank is hot and the carbon filter is absorbing fumes.

Anyway, I would love to hear where other people are with their hesitations, what they have tried, and if anything has worked.

[zcar4me]

I'm still experiencing the same hesitation. It always seems worse in 1st gear, pulling away from a light at partial throttle. Nothing real heavy. Heavy acceleration or WOT is fine.

Also something I've noticed as of late is that there's almost a surge when cold. It almost feels like a slight buck, maintaining the same throttle position.

I've regapped the plugs to .26 which didn't seem to make much of a difference. As well as make sure the coils are seated all the way. I'm right at 30k right now. Still bone stock other than a BSH catch can and a drop in K&N.

[9r's_CC]

I have a 2012 with approximately 21K, APR Stage II tune, turbo back exhaust, stage I/II APR Carbonio and experiencing surging/hesitation between 2-3K RPM's.

I took it back to the shop that did the work for me, they checked the flash which I was told I had the latest greatest, they replaced the plugs with some NGK coppers and off I went. It seemed good for a couple of days and the surging returned.

I have also noticed that the surging is worse during hot weather. I just started working nights and have been amazed at how well the car is running at night at 75 versus 90 degrees.

I contacted APR technical support and they looked up my VIN and confirmed I had the latest software with the smoothing applied... they want to see round 1 and 4 VAG-Com logs. I guess that is my next avenue.

[irongrey]

I have a 2012 with approximately 21K, APR Stage II tune, turbo back exhaust, stage I/II APR Carbonio and experiencing surging/hesitation between 2-3K RPM's.

I took it back to the shop that did the work for me, they checked the flash which I was told I had the latest greatest, they replaced the plugs with some NGK coppers and off I went. It seemed good for a couple of days and the surging returned.

I have also noticed that the surging is worse during hot weather. I just started working nights and have been amazed at how well the car is running at night at 75 versus 90 degrees.

I contacted APR technical support and they looked up my VIN and confirmed I had the latest software with the smoothing applied... they want to see round 1 and 4 VAG-Com logs. I guess that is my next avenue.

Keep us posted. I was thinking of contacting APR as well.

I've been driving with the evap purge valve plugged for a couple days now and was starting to think I had found the problem as all was smooth. And then this afternoon, as the temp climbed above 70 degrees and I had been driving for a while, there it was. Ugh.

I have read through all my old posts and noticed that each time some major component was replaced, first an injector and then the intake manifold and all injectors, the hesitation went away for a couple weeks. And then it turns, slowly at first and then just settles into that bucking feeling. So what's up with that? Why does it go away for a while? Is that a clue? Is something being disconnected that resets something?

[sowleman]

I'm experiencing the same thing after installing my Carbonio intake about a week ago. Or maybe I'm just noticing it more now. And it's extremely hot in Texas right now.

There is no hesitation or lag in the 2000 - 3000 RPMs range if I keep the pedal down. However if I let off the gas a little (not a complete stop) to go over a speed bump or ease out in the median when turning onto a highway, then there is a lot of lag the next time I try to accelerate. And it's generally in the 2000 - 3000 RPMs range.

[sowleman]

I called APR about this issue and they told me to take it to a local APR dealer and have them run a data scan (??) and send it to APR for them to diagnose.

Sounds like it would be on my dime. I'm not to inclined to pay for thier diagnosis at this point.

I asked APR if they had a return policy if I wanted to go back to the stock intake and they said no, once the intake has been installed you can't return it. I'm noot too happy about their customer service.

Does anyone have any other ideas?

[snobrdrdan]

I responded in your other thread about the intake
(you give up some of the tq feeling for gains in hp with an intake)

Also, the DSG & drive by wire system is probably playing a factor in that too with your "issue"

[sowleman]

I responded in your other thread about the intake
(you give up some of the tq feeling for gains in hp with an intake)

Also, the DSG & drive by wire system is probably playing a factor in that too with your "issue"

Yea probably so. I have a love/hate relationship with my drive by wire system.

Btw, I decided to come to a thread that was actually on topic rather than to continue to hijack that one. LOL

[irongrey]

So I have been rereading all my posts since I first developed problems in the Spring of 2011 (engine hiccup, sputtering at low rpms when cold, and intermittent rough idle). They got progressively worse over about 4 months until I finally got the P2015 code indicating a malfunctioning intake manifold. I had the manifold and all injectors replaced in Sept 2011 and all my problems went away for a while. I then began to experience the hiccup again like three months later and it got progressively worse. I have heard of many people who have had to have their intake manifolds replaced multiple times, despite the revised part. And so at this point, I am wondering if it isn't the intake manifold again, that one of those flaps are not working properly (bad design). Lord knows I have had most other things replaced without any resolution. I think I am going to wait for a hot day and then try to take it back to the dealer, demonstrate the hiccup and see if I can get them to replace the intake manifold again under warranty.

I wonder if there are any people out there who had the hiccup, had their intake manifold replaced, and the hiccup went away?

[snobrdrdan]

^^^
Aren't there codes, or isn't there more hesitation when driving (other than a "hiccup") when the intake manifold goes/is broken though??

[zcar4me]

^^^
Aren't there codes, or isn't there more hesitation when driving (other than a "hiccup") when the intake manifold goes/is broken though??

I'm not sure man. I've read where it didn't throw a code until the arm was physically broken.

I'm half tempted to just disconnect the arm and rig it to where it stays open. Then see if it throws a code or not and see how it affects driveability. This manifold design seems like much more trouble than it's worth.
I know that Toyota used this on their 3SGTE (T-VIS) and many people replace the intake manifolds with aftermarket units, especially when increasing power output. The only benefit is slightly more low end torque. With power increased, the difference without T-VIS is negligible.

[irongrey]

^^^
Aren't there codes, or isn't there more hesitation when driving (other than a "hiccup") when the intake manifold goes/is broken though??

My car had four months of escalating problems before I finally threw the intake mani code. And my hiccup first started in the context of these four months. Once I had the intake mani replaced, all the problems went away. But the hiccup began returning after some months. Actually, my intermittent rough idle got better but never completely went away either.

Has anybody had their intake manifold replaced under the powertrain warranty vs the 36k mi warranty?

[snobrdrdan]

My car had four months of escalating problems before I finally threw the intake mani code. And my hiccup first started in the context of these four months. Once I had the intake mani replaced, all the problems went away. But the hiccup began returning after some months. Actually, my intermittent rough idle got better but never completely went away either.

How many miles are on it?

Have you had the valves cleaned?
I know they gunk up pretty bad on the TSI

[dcbc]

I noticed some hesitation a while back. Recently, things got worse. Just got back from flatbedding my CC to a nearby dealership (local dealership is worthless). Hoping for some powertrain warranty love.

[irongrey]

How many miles are on it?

Have you had the valves cleaned?
I know they gunk up pretty bad on the TSI

I had the intake mani replaced at 38k. Prior to that, they did a carbon clean of the throttle body, valves, and intake and it made no difference (which make sense bc that was never the problem; it was a failing flapper inside the intake manifold). After replacing the intake mani, they did another hand cleaning/scraping of carbon build up. Within a few months, I had the hiccup again. I now have about 56k.

[irongrey]

So I was at the dealership today discussing with them my engine hesitation. The shop foreman who worked with me closely when I had my intake manifold replaced remembered me and remembered that I had this same hesitation prior to getting the intake manifold CEL. He offered to open a ticket with VW, pull some logs from the car, and send them to VW. But first he suggested I use some product which is new to VW (but has been used for Audis) that is an carbon cleaner. He said carbon build up is an issue in these cars and that with this product, the carbon "melts away". I reminded him that I had a carbon clean done here before and he said, and this is the shop foreman, that the product they used to use doesn't do anything. So I bought a couple cans, poured them in, and filled up the tank. He said if the problem persists, to make an appt to pull logs. My prediction is that the problem will persist. But I will keep folks updated.

He also suggested that anybody else who is having this issue also go to the dealership as the more people who have the same issue the more likely VW is to work on a solution.

[dcbc]

So I was at the dealership today discussing with them my engine hesitation. The shop foreman who worked with me closely when I had my intake manifold replaced remembered me and remembered that I had this same hesitation prior to getting the intake manifold CEL. He offered to open a ticket with VW, pull some logs from the car, and send them to VW. But first he suggested I use some product which is new to VW (but has been used for Audis) that is an carbon cleaner. He said carbon build up is an issue in these cars and that with this product, the carbon "melts away". I reminded him that I had a carbon clean done here before and he said, and this is the shop foreman, that the product they used to use doesn't do anything. So I bought a couple cans, poured them in, and filled up the tank. He said if the problem persists, to make an appt to pull logs. My prediction is that the problem will persist. But I will keep folks updated.

He also suggested that anybody else who is having this issue also go to the dealership as the more people who have the same issue the more likely VW is to work on a solution.

Is it BG Products 44K? My nearby dealer recommended this to me recently even though when they had my intake off, they said the build up appeared normal for my mileage.

[irongrey]

Is it BG Products 44K? My nearby dealer recommended this to me recently even though when they had my intake off, they said the build up appeared normal for my mileage.

It was a little can, white, with an attached white cone. Most of the lettering on the can was not English, and there were logos for Audi, Seat, VW, and other VW Group brands.

No, it was not BG.

This is what the dealer sold me.

http://www.ecstuning.com/Audi-A3-FWD...uel/ES1895145/

[dcbc]

It was a little can, white, with an attached white cone. Most of the lettering on the can was not English, and there were logos for Audi, Seat, VW, and other VW Group brands.

No, it was not BG.

This is what the dealer sold me.

http://www.ecstuning.com/Audi-A3-FWD...uel/ES1895145/

Okay, thanks. ECS's website says NLA.

[sowleman]

Maybe this will fix the issue:

http://forums.vwvortex.com/showthrea...ECM-TCM-update