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    Thread: The Daughters Jetta

    1. Member Stangrcr1's Avatar
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      03-05-2012 11:53 PM #1
      First, I must say, thank you to all for the DIYs and all the info.

      History, The daughter and the wife bought a 2001 Jetta VR6(156k miles) without letting me look at it. They said it was cute and not to worry about it. Of course they do this while I am at work. First night parked in the driveway, the Jetta marks its spot with coolant and oil. Freaking great. This brought me to this website and the crackpipe/lock carrier DIYs. Oil was from the filter O-ring, replaced. Then replaced the crackpipe with billet from gruvenparts, the thermostat and housing, and the intake valve bushings. Put it back together and find the radiator has a small crack right by the upper connection. Great. Tear off the lock and replace the radiator. Drive it one day and it is blowing white smoke out the exhaust. Pull the plugs and coolant is visible in #3 cylinder through the plug hole. Another freaking great. Then I start pulling the head(diy http://forums.vwvortex.com/showthread.php?1264409) and find the timing chain guides in many pieces, and the chain has cut a deep grove in the guide pin. Its just getting better every time. So now I pulled the engine/trans. Since the chain was off the cams, I couldn't turn the motor over to get the converter bolts, so pulled the head then the trans, and have the engine hanging on the hoist. Took the pan off and find about 10 more pieces of chain guides. Pulled the lower timing chain cover and the straight guide falls off in my hands in many pieces. Then pulled the water pump and found the plastic impeller with no blades. Does this hell end?

      So here I am looking at the motor, can't get the crank bolt out(the front seal is leaking), and wondering what else can I find? The bores all look great, visible crosshatch and no discernible ring ridge. Head is going to the machine shop for decking and valve job. I am going to pull bearing caps and see what the wear looks like, but hoping I can use the short block as is. Probably asking for too much, and with it this far apart....

      So since the motor is this far apart, what else do I need to worry about? Oh yeah, the power windows keep blowing fuses.... And I am afraid to open the trans pan to see whats there. Already ordered most of the parts from MJM....

      Any suggestions?

    2. Member GTIVRon's Avatar
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      03-06-2012 12:14 AM #2
      Automatic trans? Or 5 speed?

      If 5 speed go ahead and replace the shift fork with the bolted piece, and get the bolt conversion kit for the ring gear on the diff. These pieces are riveted together, and are other common failure parts on cars that have had the ever living s**t beaten out of them (as appears to be the case with your daughters car).
      2002.5 Jetta 1.8T - TOTALED (dodging deer)
      2002.5 24v GTI - TOTALED (rear-ended by a Jeep)
      1992 Corrado SLC - Dead. Will be back.. stronger.
      2012 Golf R - Daily Driver Status

    3. Member Stangrcr1's Avatar
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      03-06-2012 12:44 AM #3
      Thanks Ron, but its an auto and it looks like I will be rebuilding it too.

    4. Member afd03's Avatar
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      03-06-2012 01:03 AM #4

    5. Member Stangrcr1's Avatar
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      03-06-2012 01:14 AM #5
      Just spent another $200 at MJM.... Plus the $400+ already... Not including the radiator, thermostat and housing, crack pipe, etc. This is getting expensive and I haven't even dropped the head off at the machine shop yet....

      Going to pull the oil pump and some bearings tomorrow to see how they are...

      This is no nickel and dime. This is big money....
      Last edited by Stangrcr1; 03-06-2012 at 01:16 AM.

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      03-06-2012 02:29 PM #6
      Welcome to OUR world

      I bought my beloved 2000 VW Automatic trans. jetta mk4 at 89K.

      And you have named just about everything that I've had repaired or done myself!

      @ tranny rebuilds. Don't ask about the 2nd one 30K after the first

      It's a love/hate relationship

      I would not recommend anyone buying a VW

      Though it's great looking, comfortable(great lumbar support), handles well, and has pep!
      For the $17000 I put into it seems ridiculous. That includes the purchase price of $9K and the rest has been repairs. AND all in 6 yrs.

    7. Member kpaskdub's Avatar
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      03-06-2012 08:55 PM #7
      scrap it all that work+money/time you spent and you could buy you another one easyyy just my $.02
      Dubsss

    8. Member Stangrcr1's Avatar
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      03-06-2012 09:05 PM #8
      g, at least yours were spread out. I am doing all of it at one time.

      $504 just for the trans rebuild kit.

      I am in over $1k now just in parts and still haven't gotten the bill from the machine shop. I am going to fix this "right" and then I want to be done with it.

      Everything I have heard is that these cars were made to last 100k and anything beyond that is luck. Well, this ones luck ran out at 156k. Hopefully the resurrection will be successful.

    9. Member Stangrcr1's Avatar
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      03-06-2012 09:06 PM #9
      k, too much into it already to quit. And I don't quit that easy.

    10. Member kpaskdub's Avatar
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      1997 vr6 Jetta 12v Mint white (current) 98 vr6 jetta 1st car, 96 1.8l NA slammed miata, 94 gt25
      03-06-2012 09:24 PM #10
      You will be at 3k in no time in repairs, and who ever told you they are made to last 100k miles and the rest is luck is there are vrs, with 250k miles out there, scarce but there are my freind has a 24v VRT with 230k on it rebuilt at 100k. miles isnt the problem its the supporting parts that fail, but once they are replaced by aftermarket, you have less of that chance.

      so in summary once you reach 3k you could of bough another 12v vr Mk3
      Dubsss

    11. Member Stangrcr1's Avatar
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      03-06-2012 09:30 PM #11
      For 3k I would buy a Honda Accord. And if there wasn't a loan hanging over this car, it would be gone. As such, it will get fixed and driven at least until it is paid off.
      Last edited by Stangrcr1; 03-06-2012 at 10:47 PM.

    12. Member Stangrcr1's Avatar
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      03-06-2012 10:50 PM #12
      After thinking about it, I might like the car once the issues are fixed. But that remains to be seen.

      Also, The daughter sold her great running 2 door 94 Accord to get this Jetta 4 door for my granddaughter. I built that Accord, and after she sold it, the guys girlfriend ran it into the back of a truck, and I rebuilt it again.

      I should quit working on other peoples cars....

      I used to race Honda Preludes at the local dirt track. Had it dynoed once at 145hp naturally aspirated SOHC 2.0 liter with twin sidedraft Mikunis. That was with a stock cam(factory rated hp was 95). Had more power with the reground cam later.... Car weighed 2012lbs...
      Last edited by Stangrcr1; 03-06-2012 at 10:52 PM.

    13. Member nubVR's Avatar
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      03-06-2012 10:51 PM #13
      3k in parts No way, man your on the right track, if youve gone this far and not scared your already done! The water impeller broke, wich caused it to over heat, and warp the head..... The guide pieces..... 20-30k over do, that will cause all the breaking, not uncommon to find them in the pan. You basically will have a brand new car when your done...... I cant speak for the tranny and electrical gremlins though. Good luck keep chuggin along

    14. Member Stangrcr1's Avatar
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      03-06-2012 11:26 PM #14
      Pulled the oil pump apart. Lots of crap in the screen, but very little wear/scoring on the pump gears and housing. Then pulled one rod and one main cap. The bearings look almost new. Way better than the Honda bearings in my racecar after a season of racing. Looks like the VW oiling system works.

      There are two freeze plugs on the back of the block that look like they were seeping a little so I am contemplating pulling them and tapping the holes for threaded plugs. Anyone done this on a VR6? I used to do it with all my race engines.

      And when I flipped the block over on the stand, all the impeller pieces from the water pump fell out. I am suprised the car didn't overheat sooner with no water flow, expect the aux pump. Maybe that is what was doing all the cooling...

      The head has maybe 2 thousandths warp. Going to get decked anyway. First thing my machinist said when I told him VR6, was "I'm sorry". He used to race Top Alcohol back in the 70's. He did all the machine work on my Powerstroke Diesel (500hp/1200ft/lb tq at the tires on the dyno), and all my Honda race motors, so I trust him.

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      03-07-2012 12:57 AM #15
      You ARE the man! what a mechanic. I admire you and wish I could do everything you've done. I would've saved so much $$$. I laughed while reading your first entry...and that's horrible btw. I say laugh because I've been there. AND I'm still there...yes, I guess it was spread out. All still on my C/C pretty much. So, how's that any better, lol?
      Upon further reading I cringe at every post of yours. And sincerely hope your hell ends promptly

      My expenses and broken things: 2 tranny rebuilts =$7000

      orginal trans. went @109K miles
      rebuilt and it went @130K miles apparently inferior parts? the guy who rebuilt the 1st rebuild said that anyway. Who can trust a mechanic? He was VW dealer mechanic for years. This guy did the 2nd rebuild (Autohaus in VA---$3800). I assume he knows what he's talking about. But still I'm skeptical. When i called the mechanic who did the rebuild in GA(Eurotrans---$1750) who spoke with a German accent(seemingly the Most knowledgable?) he said if there was a cel on that was not cleared before the install, that the trans. computer/car would not be able to do the "Basic Reset" properly, which in turn would/could apply incorrect pressures to the plates and wear them prematurely. Really? The mechanic who rebuilt it (the ex-VW dealer mechanic) said that was BS. and that the parts were cheap. Yet, his warranty was the same...how convenient. 1yr/12K. Knock on wood, it's still butter smooth after 50K. I've had a cel on since I bought it @89K. So, that stands to reason that the GA german mechanic was not being truthful. I guess. Since my 2nd rebuild didn't go 30k later. Right?

      Waterpipe, thermosat, radiator(cracked plastic flange--top right), aux. radiator fan, temp. sensor, fan control module, alternator, a/c compressor, dryer, evaporater, waterpump, window regulator, trunk lock, heater-a/c control unit, belt tensioner assembly.

      And at present still baffled about the misfire my 2000 VW jetta mk4 (190K) has!!!

      It's your turn to laugh...last week I replaced plugs, wires, coilpack= $400 STILL MISFIRING!
      that did include a $60 v-checker vag

      someone suggested bad fuel injectors so I pulled them to switch cyl 5 and cyl3 to see if that would change the code. it did not. still got cyl.5 misfire and in doing so broke a fuel injector =$165 and the t-pipe= $10
      All tested good resistance. STILL NO CHANGE! P0300, and P0305 (random misfire/cly 5 misfire)

      I did get a new code P0420 Bank 1, :efficiency below threshold (pre-O2 sensor right?)
      and someone here suggested replacing the preO2 sensor. So...I did.

      Today I replaced the pre-O2 sensor = $65 with no improvement
      pivot wrench/o2 socket = $30
      Fuel filter= $15 what the heck it needs a new one...maybe it'll help.
      Seafoam = $10 NO CHANGE!

      Drove 12 miles and got the same code. P0420 !!!!!!!! what gives? now what do I replace? the rear O2(nvr got a code for that one) or the cat. converter?

      tomorrow I guess I'll buy a compression gauge = $35
      and see if all cylinders are equal...

      Any suggestions? anyone?

    16. Member Stangrcr1's Avatar
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      03-07-2012 01:25 AM #16
      g, thanks for the reply. No hijacking here. Make a new thread bud.

      As far as transmissions, I build them to factory specs. With factory piston clearances even with extra clutches for more grip. Alto Redline frictions and Kolene steels usually.

      Your mechanic on the tranny was handing you a load of BS. They do that to get out of the warranty. "must have been something else"....... Not our fault....

      And hence why I do my own work.

      BTW, this car has not thrown one code or light. Think the light is burnt out.

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      03-07-2012 01:10 PM #17
      Apologies...I meant no disrepect. I have been posting about my misfire. With some response.

      I was hoping you might have some ideas. You seem very knowledgeable and experienced

    18. Member kpaskdub's Avatar
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      03-07-2012 05:08 PM #18
      Quote Originally Posted by nubVR View Post
      3k in parts No way, man your on the right track,

      not with the tranny, and everything that goes with it if he is still at 1k with the head not decked/machined
      Dubsss

    19. Member Stangrcr1's Avatar
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      03-07-2012 07:28 PM #19
      G, you have already done everything I would have looked at other than checking the individual wires in the harness to that injector(cracked/broken insulation causing high resistance, or intermittent shorted to ground). Also check the wires going from the harness into the coil pack. And check that all the engine ground wires have good connections.

      K, It should only be a couple hundred for the machine work, he gives me good deals. But with the trans kit costing $500, and all the other little things along the way I am sure to be at least $2k into this and maybe a bit more.

    20. Junior Member
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      03-08-2012 09:13 AM #20
      Good luck! I'm sure you'll get it done right and the car will be a sweet ride. You should throw in some pics though.

    21. Member Stangrcr1's Avatar
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      03-08-2012 07:47 PM #21
      A few pics...


      The water pump...


      And the block on the stand....

    22. Member Stangrcr1's Avatar
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      03-08-2012 07:55 PM #22
      And here is the Prelude I used to race.


      And the motor in it
      Last edited by Stangrcr1; 03-08-2012 at 08:05 PM.

    23. Member Stangrcr1's Avatar
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      03-08-2012 08:01 PM #23
      More off topic pics:

      The is the Powerstroke Diesel in my F250 while I was building it




      And putting it back in

    24. Member Stangrcr1's Avatar
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      03-08-2012 08:10 PM #24
      And the 94 Accord I rebuilt. Was the daughters car, she sold it and the buyerrs girlfreind rearended a truck. Pulled it out, replaced core support, radiator, a/c condenser, etc.

    25. Member Stangrcr1's Avatar
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      03-08-2012 08:16 PM #25
      K. no more off topic pics. Just wanted to share a bit.

      The above should show I am quite capable and like ARP a lot. The Honda had ARPs too.

      Will take more pics as I rebuild the VR6. Currently cleaning all the aluminum engine parts before plastic bead blasting. Paint em or leave em bare? Oil pan, timing covers....

    26. Member Stangrcr1's Avatar
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      03-10-2012 11:55 AM #26
      I am going out today and bead blasting the aluminum parts(oil pan, timing covers, motor mounts, etc). Was there a factory clearcoat on them?

    27. Member GTIVRon's Avatar
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      03-10-2012 01:45 PM #27
      Not on the oil pan or valve cover. I think the motor mounts are just painted with a glossy black.
      2002.5 Jetta 1.8T - TOTALED (dodging deer)
      2002.5 24v GTI - TOTALED (rear-ended by a Jeep)
      1992 Corrado SLC - Dead. Will be back.. stronger.
      2012 Golf R - Daily Driver Status

    28. Member Stangrcr1's Avatar
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      03-10-2012 04:16 PM #28
      k. these motor mounts were not painted. The other aluminum parts (oil pan especially) were starting to get corrosion on them. As such, I am looking at a can of high temp aluminum color paint to prevent future corrosion.

    29. Member Stangrcr1's Avatar
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      03-13-2012 12:31 AM #29
      So now that I have this motor apart, anything I should do to prolong the life of this motor? It will be getting full 5 angle valve job, some pocket porting, and ARP studs, what else should I look at?

      This is not as performance build, it is mostly for reliability and mileage.

      I do want to ditch the stock airbox, but don't want the air filter in the fender. Ideas?

    30. Member afd03's Avatar
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      03-13-2012 01:41 AM #30
      Quote Originally Posted by Stangrcr1 View Post
      I do want to ditch the stock airbox, but don't want the air filter in the fender. Ideas?
      It's been said that a stock airbox is the best with a k&n drop-in filter! Buying another would just be for the "sounds"

    31. Member
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      03-16-2012 09:55 PM #31
      I bought my second VR off ebay. Sunk 3K into it, its a daily driver now. It still needs timing chains. I didn't have any CEL but had all kinds of problems. Devious previous owner removed the bulbs. ABS was all screwed up. The indicator in the dash had been on so long, it was burned out. When it rolled off the delivery truck the rear passenger wheel almost fell off. Wheel bearing vaporized, stub axle ruined, caliper bracket toast. Ebay seller told me the caliper was just "seized". When I confronted him about it he said "sale is final, good luck with it". No more ebay cars for me. Sellers lie, ebay does nothing to help.
      Anyway Stangcr1, these cars are relatively forgiving but repeated abuse and neglect act like compound interest, and it gets expensive really fast to make it a reliable car again.

    32. Member Stangrcr1's Avatar
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      03-16-2012 11:32 PM #32
      I would never buy a car I can't see in person. I would not have let them buy this car if I had seen it before the daughter/wife bought it while I was at work.

      I am over $2k just in the motor rebuild and lots more to do. Pick up the head from the machine shop tomorrow. By the time I am done, the motor will be rebuilt with new chains/arp studs/bolts/metal impeller water pump, billet crack pipe, etc, and the trans rebuilt, I will be $5K into this.

      Motor is going back together, about to put the oil pan on and flip it. New lower chain and guides are in. Trans kit/solenoids/harness is on order.

    33. 03-17-2012 09:32 AM #33
      Sounds like you have everything covered as far as future reliability. I assume you're doing a bottom end gasket kit? The oil cooler seal is known to go bad. Also inspect your coil pack for cracks, the plastic gets brittle and cracks around the terminals causing a misfire especially in the rain. What kind of coolant did the car have before? Traditional green coolant is known to be corrosive in these engines, once you have the car back together you should use vw's 'g12' coolant, or I personally just use dexcool. You should clean off all your wire connectors and take a really good look at your grounds, bad grounds are known to cause all sorts of mysterious and exciting problems in these cars haha. Good luck, don't listen to the people saying you should have just bought another one, if you did that you'd just be back in this same boat again in a year! Just do it once and do it right

    34. 03-17-2012 09:49 AM #34
      Also, keep the stock airbox. A true cold air intake with the filter down low would be ok, but if you don't like that, a cone filter any closer to the maf would make the air too turbulent and do more harm then good. Like someone else mentioned, throw a k&n in the stock box and use a drill or dremel to open up the front of the bottom of the box some more.

      And I saw you mentioned arp bolts. Are you doing arp rod bolts? If so, do yourself a favor and do some searching on here about them. People have had mixed reviews, saying replacing the stock bolts with arp caused premature rod bearing failure without having the rods specifically machined for the arp bolts. I'll let you do your own homework and draw your own conclusion there, but seeing as no one else mentioned that yet I feel like I should before you get any further along.

    35. Member Stangrcr1's Avatar
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      03-24-2012 12:14 AM #35
      Justin,
      I did install ARP rod bolts and the plastigage showed no change in the bearing clearance, so I hope for the best. And since this is a driver, not a racer, I think it will be fine.

      I also tried to use a new set of Victor Reinz factory style head bolts and several of them started stretching before reaching torque. Waiting on ARP head studs now.

      All the bottom end seals are new.

      Highly considering the Ford coilpack....

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