Honda Tries to Figure out how to Remove Teh Suck

[Professor Gascan]

"Better" is totally subjective, so of course his is "better".

Those cars are all objective "better" though. Better handling, better reliability, faster, better shifters, etc.

[Air and water do mix]

Those cars are all objective "better" though. Better handling, better reliability, faster, better shifters, etc.

Nah, "better" handling to some people (not us, of course) could be a more isolated feeling. You know, numbness.

I know my GTI VR6 sure didn't have "better" handling. It steered like a cow. It was a great highway cruiser, was strong and made fantastic noises, but on the autocross track? Man, did those front tires howl, even though I had the rears pumped up to nearly 50 lbs to try to balance that nose-heavy thing!

[Air and water do mix]

****, with this weather we've been having (near 70s every day) I miss the damn thing. I'm breaking it out sometime in April from storage; I don't have time to go get it until then

Yeah, the weather has been nice here, too. I'm going to have to go visit a good friend of mine. The guy with the hopped-up TR8. It makes some great noises, too!

What part of the country are you in?

[SVTDanny]

Between 1990 and 1995, there is not one honda produced that i would rather have over a Corrado VR6. That isnt an NSX

Exactly.

[cockerpunk]

Yeah, VTEC I'll give you, but the 9k redline, that's tangible, and IMO, adds to my enjoyment of the car.

now you are just being silly.

you criticize the chewbacca rape sound of the VR6 as a dumb reason to love an engine and then go one to say that a 9k redline is a tangible reason to enjoy a car?

hypocrite much?

[AggvGtivr6]

It makes some great noises, too!

Who really cares what kind of sounds a car makes tho, it's just a meaningless platitude for dash strokers.

[BRealistic]

I'd take a 2nd gen Probe GT over a Corrado VR6 any day of the week.
There- I said it.
The VR6 was a sweet engine and the Corrado was an attractive sporty hatch with a nice interior.
But the VR6 Corrado is only held up on a pedestal around here because it was one of the very few truly interesting cars actually made by VW and sold in the US.

Now can this return to being a thread about Honda?

[Chris Stack]

Yeah, the weather has been nice here, too. I'm going to have to go visit a good friend of mine. The guy with the hopped-up TR8. It makes some great noises, too!

What part of the country are you in?

Chicagoland. The car is stored in Northern WI.

[Chris Stack]

now you are just being silly.

you criticize the chewbacca rape sound of the VR6 as a dumb reason to love an engine and then go one to say that a 9k redline is a tangible reason to enjoy a car?

hypocrite much?

No.

First I said that to claim an engine's superiority simply because it is the "best sounding" is silly. I readily acknowledge that the sound of my S2000 is part of its appeal, but I wouldn't say Honda makes better engines than VW because the F20C is the best sounding engine ever.

Second, again, sound is subjective and kind of nebulous, whereas there are specific advantages (and disadvantages) to having a 9k redline. They are tangible. You can rev the car higher. You can wait longer between shifts. The engine has a larger top-end "sweet spot" because you have more space between the HP peak and the redline. Etc.

[Toaster29]

The reason people freak out about the VR6's sound, especially the 12v, is because that's the only stand out characteristic of it. It's heavy, unreliable, and not fuel efficient for those whopping 172 horsies. Let the VW folk have their fun.

[Dave Zero]

That's about as dumb sounding as what the troll you're responding to said.

For the record, VW produced one of the best sounding motors and one of the best handling front wheel drive cars ever in the 90s.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Volkswagen_Corrado > anything honda made in the 90s that isnt a NSX

Yeah yeah ITR>Anything FWD VW has ever made ever.

[Dave Zero]

Also Honda has made some pretty bad ass motorcyles over the years and generators, three wheelers, odysseys, boat motors, Racing motors, etc.

VW made Veyron though so....

[AggvGtivr6]

The reason people freak out about the VR6's sound, especially the 12v, is because that's the only stand out characteristic of it. It's heavy, unreliable, and not fuel efficient for those whopping 172 horsies. Let the VW folk have their fun.

exactly lol plus it's alot slower than any honda from that era, right ?

Yeah yeah ITR>Anything FWD VW has ever made ever.

The dream of owning an ITR


The reality of owning an ITR


i do love ITR's, but not as much as i hate dealing with insurance companies.

[C4 A6]

The dream of owning an ITR


The reality of owning an ITR


i do love ITR's, but not as much as i hate dealing with insurance companies.

Just don't drive it into the ghetto, don't got to "Honda meetz", and keep it in a garage. If you don't have the common sense to do those 3 things, then you shouldn't even THINK of owning an ITR.

[Fritz27]

The reason people freak out about the VR6's sound, especially the 12v, is because that's the only stand out characteristic of it. It's heavy, unreliable, and not fuel efficient for those whopping 172 horsies. Let the VW folk have their fun.

But if you put a turbo on it you can get 300hp!!!1

[Toaster29]

exactly lol plus it's alot slower than any honda from that era, right ?

Sure they all. My buddy's ITR from college trapped 101 with an intake and a header in 2002. He also drove the absolute piss out of it without a single failure while you were replacing timing chain guides, crack pipes, and whatever the hell else broke.

[C4 A6]

The reason people freak out about the VR6's sound, especially the 12v, is because that's the only stand out characteristic of it. It's heavy, unreliable, and not fuel efficient for those whopping 172 horsies. Let the VW folk have their fun.

Sig'd.

[AggvGtivr6]

My buddy's ITR from college trapped 101 with an intake and a header in 2002. He also drove the absolute piss out of it without a single failure while you were replacing nothing

[lab_rat]

I think he's referring to the "Starship Enterprise" dashboard in the Civic. A lot was said of it when it made it's debut and it hasn't changed much. Yeah, it works pretty well but is still controversial in it's second generation.

IMO the 'controversial dash' is a nod to Honda's motorcycle heritage - each time I drive my Si, The dash instantly reminds me of the instruments when riding my VFR.

How old are you? Anywhere from 15-20 right?

If so, then you'll grow out of this vw 4 lyfe and honduh sux mentality once you're past 21. Trust me. I and others used to be like you. You'll learn to appreciate a lot more cars once you open up your mind a little and don't succumb to stupid trends because you think that's the thing to do.

If however you truly feel this way, then I feel bad for you man because you're missing out on some great cars.

Well said.

The dream of owning an ITR


The reality of owning an ITR


i do love ITR's, but not as much as i hate dealing with insurance companies.[/QUOTE]

I don't even leave my Si in the driveway overnight - it's always in the garage. I can't imagine how the owner of this Type R felt seeing this...

[E34M50]

i wish death to all VW.


am i cool enough yet?

[C4 A6]

No.

First I said that to claim an engine's superiority simply because it is the "best sounding" is silly. I readily acknowledge that the sound of my S2000 is part of its appeal, but I wouldn't say Honda makes better engines than VW because the F20C is the best sounding engine ever.

Second, again, sound is subjective and kind of nebulous, whereas there are specific advantages (and disadvantages) to having a 9k redline. They are tangible. You can rev the car higher. You can wait longer between shifts. The engine has a larger top-end "sweet spot" because you have more space between the HP peak and the redline. Etc.

Keep in mind the noise you hear in an S2000 is the ENGINE, and not the exhaust note that VR6 people jizz over. I'd rather have a nice sounding engine than a nice sounding exhaust.

[Dave Zero]

Globally, I believe Honda was making the CRX Si with the 160 HP VTEC Motor in the early nineties.

Also the Del Sol VTEC and Civic SiR and of course the early 1.7, 1.8L gen II Integras.

All of which would not only keep up with the beloved Corrado V6 (which is a mid 15 second car by the way, not a rocketship) in a straight line and pulverize it in the corners.

Well, you say, they didn't sell those in Merica

Thats why dudes were stuffing everything they could in EG hatches and raping the streets and we got fast and furious.

My life in the nineties lol.

[AggvGtivr6]

Keep in mind the noise you hear in an S2000 is the ENGINE, and not the exhaust note that VR6 people jizz over. I'd rather have a nice sounding engine than a nice sounding exhaust.

LOL

[E34M50]

Keep in mind the noise you hear in an S2000 is the ENGINE, and not the exhaust note that VR6 people jizz over. I'd rather have a nice sounding engine than a nice sounding exhaust.

i had a VR6 exhaust on my lawnmower....sounded dope

can i sig that please?

[AggvGtivr6]

i had a VR6 exhaust on my lawnmower....sounded dope

my lawnmower had vtec, and it was faster than any car ever made by anyone in europe.

[C4 A6]

my lawnmower had vtec, and it was faster than any car ever made by anyone in europe.

Probably more reliable, too

[AggvGtivr6]

Probably more reliable, too

well duh

[lab_rat]

[Toaster29]

The VR6 has a great sounding exhaust because of the spacing of the cylinders and how those long and short exhaust port lengths interact with the exhaust pulses. The intake noise sounds really like any V6. The Hondas on the other hand sound like any regular 4 cylinder or V6 up until vtec, and that noise is all intake afterwards. The noise change that happens at that engagement is just due to the instant improvement in the VE of the engine due to the longer duration and increased lift on the intake, exhaust, or both depending on the engine family type.

[Jettavr666]

The reason people freak out about the VR6's sound, especially the 12v, is because that's the only stand out characteristic of it. It's heavy, unreliable, and not fuel efficient for those whopping 172 horsies. Let the VW folk have their fun.

having had a 2001 Jetta VR6 for almost 10 years, I can easily tell you why i liked i so much.

a) the VR6 is much more reliable than pretty much any VW engine of the era save the 2.0
b) it has a really flat torque curve making it seem faster than it is
c) it is a fantastic highway car because there is rarely a need to downshift to make decent speed
d) it felt like a mini luxury car with the VR6 because it was fairly quiet, and VERY smooth.

[JustinCSVT]

I like how someone on this thread says they don't like or buy VW's.
Lol then why the **** have an account on the vortex and waste your time telling us this.
My two pennies: honda really blows. Hard. Every SINGLE crappy little econobox of theirs I've been in has been an intense displeasure to drive. Gutless, squishy suspension, total let down. Not to mention the fact that they still stick to those high revving 4cyl cheap engines is beyond me. Wanna buy the losing car? Buy a Honda.
Every VW I've driven: responsive, best handling, and purpose-built. Hondas are way too cheap for they're own good, they cut way too many corners. There are some smart people at Honda no doubt,
But this make it good enough just to get into the US mentality is their failure.
There is no passion behind those cars. Just disappointment.

[C4 A6]

There's another great gif of that guy with a disbelief face on.

[AggvGtivr6]

having had a 2001 Jetta VR6 for almost 10 years, I can easily tell you why i liked i so much.

a) the VR6 is much more reliable than pretty much any VW engine of the era save the 2.0
b) it has a really flat torque curve making it seem faster than it is
c) it is a fantastic highway car because there is rarely a need to downshift to make decent speed
d) it felt like a mini luxury car with the VR6 because it was fairly quiet, and VERY smooth.

no no no, you're just fanboi cause vw's suck, and so do vr6's cause they dont have vtec, bro.

[VDub2625]

a) the VR6 is much more reliable than pretty much any VW engine of the era save the 2.0
b) it has a really flat torque curve making it seem faster than it is
c) it is a fantastic highway car because there is rarely a need to downshift to make decent speed
d) it felt like a mini luxury car with the VR6 because it was fairly quiet, and VERY smooth.

Don't forget the TDI, that's reliable too. So basically we're saying the 1.8T is unreliable. (the VR6 is middle of the pack I would say... it's not quite as reliable as the ancient 2.0, but it's by no means unreliable compared to the average car). it's also a lot less heavy than a regular V6, while having all the other benefits (listed below).

b, c and d is because it's a V6. That's pretty much par for the course with any 6 cylinder. Same with the bad gas mileage.

I'm not sure why this topic has shifted to the VR6, but as fantastic an engine as it is, and fun to drive, it's just not a good engine. it's interesting, but not good. VW even has a history of downgrading their hotter 4 cylinders to make the VR6 look better. The 1.8T suddenly found 30hp when the VR6 gained 12 extra valves and... 30hp. The 16v which was a European option in the 90s alongside the VR6, is well-known to very easily, with some tuning, make the same power as a VR (though, it is noisy and not as torquey, being a 16 valve engine). Also, ENGINE noise sucks. i'd rather have a quiet, smooth engine, not a loud, brash one (I was always disappointed with my 16v in my Jetta, especially after I owned a VR6, the feel and the noise was much better, but I'll deal with it for the efficency). it also doesn't seem as powerful per liter as other manufacturer's V6s, and it isn't very easily expandable without changing the whole block (see the 3.6).

SO, basically, the VR6 is what it is: a compact, lighter V6. You can't really compare it to a 4 cylinder any more than you can comapre a Honda V6 to a 4 cylinder VTEC.

[Dave Zero]

no no no, you're just fanboi cause vw's suck, and so do vr6's cause they dont have vtec, bro.

VW makes a great car. The Mk I and II were absolutely game changing and brilliant. The Mk III started to get a little middle aged with spare tire around it's belly and the Mk IV was a full on squishy old man of a car.

During that time, Honda's went from dinky little gas sippers to psuedo luxury, inventing a new space in the bottom of the luxury market for themselves with the brilliant Integra. Honda continued developing new technologies in the prelude and of course the Civic continued to evolve into a more sporty car.

WRX came along and levelled the whole FWD compact sport market.

Now Honda has all wheel drive cars to match the top level golfs and the Civic Si and Golf GTI are as close to two different cars that perform almost identically, but in different ways.

VW doesn't suck man, but it's not the end-all either and to be perfectly honest, they did kind of suck in the late nineties much the way Honda sucks now.