Electronic Stability Control - How to turn off/disable?

[BlazinVR]

So according to the manual that comes with the car, "ESC is switched on all the time." There are only instructions for turning off traction control.

JLourieR32's comment pretty much sums up why ESP sucks:
"Then there is the ESP. I don't even plan on bringing this car to the track until this is resolved. Last thing I need is the car thinking it needs to pull my throttle or apply the brakes because it thinks I'm 'out of control.' That is just an accident waiting to happen."

**So has anyone figured out how to turn off stability control yet?** I'm kind of hoping APR (or any other tuner) would include some sort of flash with their tune that makes the 'ESP OFF' button also disable stability control (and not just traction control).








these guys disabled ESP by pulling a fuse. the only problem is that it also disables ABS and a couple lights :

http://blogs.insideline.com/roadtest...off-i-say.html

[casperslost]

I hear you can pull the fuse or unplug abs sensors.

[BlazinVR]

I hear you can pull the fuse or unplug abs sensors.

you can pull the big green 30 amp fuse (fuse box in the engine compartment), but it also disables ABS and a couple other lights.

[.:R Driven]

Looks like a lot of fun. I'm hoping a tuner takes care of this...

[iThread]

All you should have to do is unplug one ABS sensor, that will defeat the system without losing any lights. In fact you'll gain one! The ABS warning light. Until you plug the sensor back in.

[johannes]

I would pay $ for this. I would also sign a liability waiver for the tuner....Come on APR or somebody-do this!

[Wlfsbrg2.0T]

I would pay $ for this. I would also sign a liability waiver for the tuner....Come on APR or somebody-do this!

As would I, and a waiver would certainly be required. Waaaaay too much liability if someone injures/kills themselves. Probably enough reason right there for no one to want to touch that area.

[johannes]

As would I, and a waiver would certainly be required. Waaaaay too much liability if someone injures/kills themselves. Probably enough reason right there for no one to want to touch that area.

The tuner would just have to label it "off road use only". Then maybe an additional personal liability waiver.

Arin from APR??

[webcrawlr]

TechEd has expressed concern with pulling anything ABS and what codes you might be setting on other items on the CAN bus you cannot see or do anything about. Food for thought.

[iThread]

TechEd has expressed concern with pulling anything ABS and what codes you might be setting on other items on the CAN bus you cannot see or do anything about. Food for thought.

Hmmm, that's not good.

[homercles337]

TechEd has expressed concern with pulling anything ABS and what codes you might be setting on other items on the CAN bus you cannot see or do anything about. Food for thought.

ABS and ECS are one thing, but i really bought into what he had to say about ride height/quality. Now that i have driven the R for more than a month, the suspension is ****. Bump steer is outrageous. Dont listen to TechEd as the "end all, be all" of this car. Just my $0.02.

[speedbump2]

...JLourieR32's comment pretty much sums up why ESP sucks:
"Then there is the ESP. I don't even plan on bringing this car to the track until this is resolved...

I can see where ESP could be big problem in AutoX, but I don't think its such a big deal on a road course. On my last outing at Lime Rock, I forgot to turn the ESP off in my MK IV R32, and it did not interfere at all. I never even knew it was on.

I've had ESP really f*** with me on the street, cutting power at the MOST inopportune times, and braking wheels that I didn't want to brake, but it never even flashed once that day at the track.

--Chuck--

[johannes]

I can see where ESP could be big problem in AutoX, but I don't think its such a big deal on a road course. On my last outing at Lime Rock, I forgot to turn the ESP off in my MK IV R32, and it did not interfere at all. I never even knew it was on.

I've had ESP really f*** with me on the street, cutting power at the MOST inopportune times, and braking wheels that I didn't want to brake, but it never even flashed once that day at the track.

--Chuck--

My concern (somewhat via TechEd-yes I heard you, 'everyone's experience will vary') is I'd like to viciously hot-lap with R-compounds and very aggressive brake compounds if possible.....

This is not a deal breaker for me...if this is not an option, I'll just use different compounds

[Arin@APR]

Have people confirmed (by actually trying) to see if ESP is enabled even when you disable it on a Golf R (not some other model).

[BlazinVR]

Have people confirmed (by actually trying) to see if ESP is enabled even when you disable it on a Golf R (not some other model).

even MotorTrend wasn't able to disable it. skip to 5:10 in this clip, and you'll see the guy opening up the manual to try and disable it.

[droopy1592]

Have people confirmed (by actually trying) to see if ESP is enabled even when you disable it on a Golf R (not some other model).

When it rains on the weekend around here is when I like to push the car because the roads are clear and there are some spots where I can get all four loose.

Always cuts in.

[Arin@APR]

Ok so I guess they just disable ASR.

I'll see what can be done. No promises.

[speedywinds]

Have people confirmed (by actually trying) to see if ESP is enabled even when you disable it on a Golf R (not some other model).

If this get resolve by ARP, it will be good revenue

[droopy1592]

If this get resolve by ARP, it will be good revenue

Unfortunately it was just a big tease

[climbingcue]

I can see where ESP could be big problem in AutoX, but I don't think its such a big deal on a road course. On my last outing at Lime Rock, I forgot to turn the ESP off in my MK IV R32, and it did not interfere at all. I never even knew it was on.

I've had ESP really f*** with me on the street, cutting power at the MOST inopportune times, and braking wheels that I didn't want to brake, but it never even flashed once that day at the track.

--Chuck--

The MKIV R32 on the track with ESP on is not even worth tracking the car, it cuts in so fast. This is going to be different depending on the skill level of the driver. A green group driver is just trying to get around the track, they are not pushing the car at all.

Bill

[Pdyno]

I live in Maine and we had a pretty good snowstorm a week ago. I took the R out for a spin in an empty parking lot. With it disabled, I could not get the car sideways more than 3 or 4 seconds before it was straightened out by ESP. By the end of my experiment you could smell the brakes. For track purposes I could see the advantages of such a system. But for all out boyish donuts around a parked car or light pole, it's just not possible to drift anymore.

[webcrawlr]

What's funny is other markets can disable ESC on their Rs and other US Audi and VWs can do the same. What makes the US R the grey duck?

I wouldn't want a full time disable but I'd love have the switch turn all of it off when I push it.

[Charlie84]

What's funny is other markets can disable ESC on their Rs and other US Audi and VWs can do the same. What makes the US R the grey duck?

I wouldn't want a full time disable but I'd love have the switch turn all of it off when I push it.

This is the first I've heard of this. I was under the distinct impression that all GTIs and Rs, regardless of market, had non-defeatable ESP. Can you cite a source? I'm not trying to be a jerk, I'd just be very, very interested.

[VWPDX]

This is the first I've heard of this. I was under the distinct impression that all GTIs and Rs, regardless of market, had non-defeatable ESP. Can you cite a source? I'm not trying to be a jerk, I'd just be very, very interested.

The reviews I read of the European spec Golf R all reported the stability control remaining on. A review of the GTI 35th edition did report that it was totally defeatable on that car but not the Euro spec GTI.

[Charlie84]

The reviews I read of the European spec Golf R all reported the stability control remaining on. A review of the GTI 35th edition did report that it was totally defeatable on that car but not the Euro spec GTI.

And I'd put money on that particular review being mistaken about the 35th Edition GTI. It just doesn't make any sense. Seems to me, the more likely explanation is that the reviewer merely turned off the traction control and assumed that all systems were disabled, as in any BMW.

[BRSomm]

What's funny is other markets can disable ESC on their Rs and other US Audi and VWs can do the same. What makes the US R the grey duck?

I wouldn't want a full time disable but I'd love have the switch turn all of it off when I push it.

Lawsuits? A guy sued Ford because his daughter bought a used Escort with no airbags and then died in a collision. Said they shouldn't have offered the car without airbags.

You think that if you're in a collision due to ESC being turned off that the other driver won't sue both you for doing it and VW for making it available?

[BlazinVR]

I don't know what you mean. Selective braking of particular wheels has been a staple of ESP since its inception - when the car senses you can no longer hold the line you are attempting with your steering input. That doesn't slow you down (much) - it just corrects your line. The throttle reduction under severe problems is what slows you down to give you a chance not to hit the brick wall.

At any rate, under even quite aggressive driving ESC doesn't really come on in my car - and I doubt the ESC tuning of the R is harsher. The only time it comes on is on sand/gravel or in heavy rain when I make mistakes - and I sure don't mind it, then. It still even allows you some minor hooliganism on slick surfaces. Completely overblown topic - unless doing extended drifts in snow is the prime reason you buy/bought this car.

my MK4 GTI never had any braking when ESP kicked in. i could go through a very long & tight turn and have the back end of the car twitching (tires squealing through the whole turn), and the most i would get is fuel cut off with no computer controlled braking.

Lawsuits? A guy sued Ford because his daughter bought a used Escort with no airbags and then died in a collision. Said they shouldn't have offered the car without airbags.

You think that if you're in a collision due to ESC being turned off that the other driver won't sue both you for doing it and VW for making it available?

people will sue anybody over anything these days. that doesn't mean they're going to win. have you ever heard of someone suing VW over ESP being turned off on a MK4? (and win? i doubt it)

[BsickPassat]

my MK4 GTI never had any braking when ESP kicked in.

the 01 GTI listed in your profile did not have ESP

just EDL/ASR

ESP was not offered until 2003

[watsonj0]

So I turned off the ESC last night and went out and tried to get the light to flash, threw out the back end out under hard power on a couple of corners for a couple of nice power slides( wheels spinning) the light never flashed and the car was fun. I do have a stage 2+ flash , I don't know if that makes a difference. ABS was working as I checked .
Seems like the car is good enough for me as is with the traction control off. I do time attack with a subaru and race my 911 on the track as well so I do sorta know how to drive.

[webcrawlr]

While I respect you opinion TechEd I do think you are missing the point, which isn't to say there is no value to ESC. Clearly there is and I think it's a fantastic idea. However, I bought an "R", a car that's supposed to be an enthusiasts car. A car that is supposed to represent the pinnacle of VW performance. Why, when others around the world get two stage systems, would you ship the R with a single stage to the US? We are given the choice to defeat ESC with other brands in the US and with VW abroad. What gives?

The protecting us from ourselves argument is silly to me. The government already has more control than they should IMO. The last thing I need them telling me to do is not oversteer on a closed course.

Others, this could be a productive thread so let's keep it civil. Attack the issue not the person.

[jjbravo1]

While I respect you opinion TechEd I do think you are missing the point, which isn't to say there is no value to ESC. Clearly there is and I think it's a fantastic idea. However, I bought an "R", a car that's supposed to be an enthusiasts car. A car that is supposed to represent the pinnacle of VW performance. Why, when others around the world get two stage systems, would you ship the R with a single stage to the US? We are given the choice to defeat ESC with other brands in the US and with VW abroad. What gives?

The protecting us from ourselves argument is silly to me. The government already has more control than they should IMO. The last thing I need them telling me to do is not oversteer on a closed course.

Others, this could be a productive thread so let's keep it civil. Attack the issue not the person.

^ This...

Otherwise, lets just have Cal Tech students bury a wire in the racetrack and have the computers of the car follow the signal safely varying and restricting our inputs for us. After all, THEY know what's best...

[VWPDX]

Why would APR have to look into providing a fully disablable option if in fact the Euro versions have it already? Wouldn't it be more efficient to simply flash a Euro program for the ESP? This leads me to believe that the Euro version and the US version are exactly the same and that somewhere along the way the word 'disable' got lost intranslation.

Also, in this video I am guessing that in the first half the guy is driving with the ESP engaged and in the second half he has it disabled. If this is the case, it looks to me like driving with the ESP engaged is more fun for a driver with my skill set.

The Euro versions actually don't have it. As demonstrated by the Cupra vs. R video, stability control gives drivers the illusion they are going horribly slow. I would love to see you guys post track times with and without the abs fuse pulled. The R badge comments are as ridiculous as Xalfa. Again, I contend performance is probably not significantly decreased. Look at the VW/Audi/Volvo R line. Are they really that extreme? Its a model not a spec. As a whole reviewers and tcl types don't understand the appeal. "I don't get it. Its slower than a STI." "I know the interior is nice, but I can get an A3 for that price."

Sent from my DROIDX using Tapatalk

[DudeLePowSki]

The Euro versions actually don't have it. As demonstrated by the Cupra vs. R video, stability control gives drivers the illusion they are going horribly slow. I would love to see you guys post track times with and without the abs fuse pulled. The R badge comments are as ridiculous as Xalfa. Again, I contend performance is probably not significantly decreased. Look at the VW/Audi/Volvo R line. Are they really that extreme? Its a model not a spec. As a whole reviewers and tcl types don't understand the appeal. "I don't get it. Its slower than a STI." "I know the interior is nice, but I can get an A3 for that price."

Sent from my DROIDX using Tapatalk

Fantastic point. Finally we can put to rest the difference in ESP between Euro and US versions.

Also, the above European test driver is ripping it up with the same ESP options as the US version. If in fact snow tires (= traction in snow) do make the ESP operate to it's fullest in snowy conditions, I'd tend to side with TechEd in the fact that proper tires for performance oriented driving (on a dry track) do contribute to high performing, fun track runs with ESP engaged.

STOKED.

[webcrawlr]

The Euro versions actually don't have it. As demonstrated by the Cupra vs. R video, stability control gives drivers the illusion they are going horribly slow. I would love to see you guys post track times with and without the abs fuse pulled. The R badge comments are as ridiculous as Xalfa. Again, I contend performance is probably not significantly decreased. Look at the VW/Audi/Volvo R line. Are they really that extreme? Its a model not a spec. As a whole reviewers and tcl types don't understand the appeal. "I don't get it. Its slower than a STI." "I know the interior is nice, but I can get an A3 for that price."

Sent from my DROIDX using Tapatalk

Again, that's not the point. It's not what's faster or slower. It's not what's more safe or more risky. It's give me the choice! That's it. Plain and simple. It's not unheard of and it's not "ego-driven, group-think rubbish". Other cars from other manufactures in the same segment as the R give the driver the choice.

[DudeLePowSki]

Again, that's not the point. It's not what's faster or slower. It's not what's more safe or more risky. It's give me the choice! That's it. Plain and simple. It's not unheard of and it's not "ego-driven, group-think rubbish". Other cars from other manufactures in the same segment as the R give the driver the choice.

I can respect that opinion for sure. If the Euro version does have full disable then get your car flashed with the Euro code for the ESP. Simple fix not worth arguing at this point considering the lengths at which people have gone to replace simple Euro car specs like LED lights.